I was just as committed to my future wife before the marriage certificate was signed.

Marriage is about committment and faithfulness....period.

When someone is unfaithful or uncommitted they have terminated the relationship...piece of paper or not...period.

Let me ask you this...if it all comes down to a piece of paper for you...why did you even get married?

Oh I told him the things you would kick your WW out of the house for. You know saying see what I did wasnt so bad... And we are even now... I said it every time he threw the A in my face I would throw his right back. Then he told me that he lied there was on RA and it was jsut to hurt me just as bad. It wasnt till 8 yrs about down the road he finally came clean and told me the RA did honestly happien. He told me 8 yrs later to hurt me because I wouldnt give him oral in the bedroom he told me becaue he wanted me to do what the OW did with him even if his was a ONS RA as well. Its still an A it still hurt. It opened wounds that were forgotten. [/quote]

K. It sounds like our situations are a little different. Your husband lied about his...I did not. You have every right to your anger...my W has no right to get angry or to say those types of things.....I didn't lie.

I still think you should be...no?

There was definate divorce talk. We had the papers drawn up but the lawyers let me know that I could not waive that much CS. I was not asking for anything, I did not want BH penalized because I was acting like a wh0re. So he didn't want full custody and I couln't waive CS, so the divorce got put on indefinate hold.

When we "reconciled" he told me he had been with alot of women but none of them were me, and he wanted me.

When he left for his OW, he said that he only took me back because he was afraid to be alone, then he met her and knew he wouldn't be alone anymore.

I felt that the reconciliation had merit. We had been apart, knew what divorce looked like, were amicably co-parenting, but decided to be together. It was a great year, until he got caught in his affair.

I will always wonder what the truth was.

Oh I told him the things you would kick your WW out of the house for. You know saying see what I did wasnt so bad... And we are even now... I said it every time he threw the A in my face I would throw his right back. Then he told me that he lied there was on RA and it was jsut to hurt me just as bad. It wasnt till 8 yrs about down the road he finally came clean and told me the RA did honestly happien. He told me 8 yrs later to hurt me because I wouldnt give him oral in the bedroom he told me becaue he wanted me to do what the OW did with him even if his was a ONS RA as well. Its still an A it still hurt. It opened wounds that were forgotten. [/quote]


I usually don't post replies to your posts because i feel it interferes with your growth and your progress on MB concepts however I couldn't pass this up.

The reason that the oral was such a big problem for me is because the OM bragged about what you did to/for him. When we got back togethor it was something you wouldn't do for me and that hurt alot.

Now about my RA. Lets talk about that for a minute. I think ... that it was probably the lowest most awful thing I have ever done to another person. The RA was lied about all those years. You took alot, i mean ALOT of crap from me. You suffered my wrath for years and did your best to earn my trust back. THANK GOD you thought i was worth it. I count myself very lucky.

The fact that you found it in your heart to forgive all those years of my lieing about my RA, made me believe it was possible to forgive you for all the years you lied to me about your A when you came clean 3-5 months ago.

IF anyone is confused, ill summarize

1. She had a A
2. I had a RA
3. We got back togethor and I confessed my RA
4. She started saying she didnt do anything wrong so i retracted
5. In 07 i told her the RA DID happen because I wanted to hurt her
6. Around 2/08 she told me what really happened in her A (her EA went PA on our anniversary, in the backseat of our car in a public park, and she did confirm OM was telling the truth about the oral sex, and she did have sex with both of us on the same day)
7. Shes now holding me accountable with MB principles


*edit*
we hold each other to MB principles. Shes really anxious to move beyond the dreaded Q and A sessions because this whole thing has been going on for 10 years. I agree with her because we deserve only the best M.

1. To punish the WS – CHECK
2. To recover self-esteem - CHECK
3. To see if you've still "got it" - CHECK
4. To "wake-up" the WS to what they might be losing. – SUPER CHECK
5. To take advantage of the situation to get some 'strange' of your own – CHECK
6. To "even" the situation – SUPER CHECK

I think 4 and 6 carry the most weight as 6 could possibly bring about reconciliation if your mind deems it as equal.

So, in essence (since she didn't come vclean about her A until after your admitted PA) you (RMX) had essentially another Dday at the hands of your WW?

So, where does she get off being the high and mighty one in your sitch if she basically did the complete WORST thing she could have done (lied) until she felt like telling the truth?

I don't want to insult your wife on a personal level (I don't know her), but her preaching around here regarding RA's has just been proven to be hypocritical as your wife seems to be just as vengeful as any person who has had an RA.

JMHO.

Reveng afairs are wrong, the BS should know better.

But in the unfortunant event that a RA happens, to the former WS (now the newly BS) I say.....

Suck it up kiddo!!
And welcome to the other side of the affair!!





(Sorry if thats to harsh, I just dont have any sympathy for anything bad that happens to a WS yet. I'm a big beliver in kharma)

I'm with MEDC on this one. Under dire circumstances our minds do not always function as well as they would in normal circumstances.

I know at the time I found out about WxH's A I was absolutely devastated. I could barely function, lived moment to moment because the life as I thought I knew it was no longer ahead of me.

I can't say whether one trumps the other or not, but I can certainly see how a BS could end up in an A of their own.

One thing left off the list is: understanding and comfort from another human being. Why does it always have to be about sex and the sole reason being to hurt the WS?

What about a desperate search to find a moment of calm in the center of the storm? Someone to lean on when there is no one else? Someone to just simply care that you exist?

Maybe it is different for women, I don't know.

When my own husband lacked concern and care for me and didn't give a rip whether I survived or not, someone else did.

I'm not kidding - I was suicidal and my WH didn't care. He once told me that he wished I had committed suicide.

I could pretend enough to get by when DDs were there, but as soon as they were gone, I lost it.

Someone else called me to check in, came to my home when I didn't answer, dragged me out of bed and into the fresh air. Forced me to face the outside world and keep moving.

And I never once had sex with him. If I was to be completely honest, it could be considered an EA. It had nothing to do with revenge even though he was OW's BH.

Fox (ducking for cover)

I believe in kharma as well. It's the old eye for an eye thing. It's not neccesarily the BS's responsibility to "take the law into their own hands", but who else could?

RA's are not right, but WS's deserve what they get. It's definately a catch 22.

What is the definition of an RA?

Is it defined by:
How soon after D-day?
WS's current affair status?
Both S's still in marital home?


When is it a RA and when does is become just an A.

If one of our BS's here who consider their mariage in recovery have an A, surely that does not get called a RA??

So abuse is ok as long as you admit it? "Honey, I'm going to beat you black and blue, but I will describe it blow by blow."

Hmmm, wayward thinking.

I understand a Revenge Affair to be an affair started by the BS anytime after recovery is began. (or even completed) Be it 2 weeks or 25yrs later.

I think control needs to be on list of reasons for a RA. When the WS comes to you and confesses all the control is in their hands because they are the one blindsiding you. Once you get into a RA, control starts to move back to the BS, especially if WS is interested in reconciliation. This puts the BS back into control of the situation which is a key to personal recovery in my book. The horror stories on here USUALLY reside when the WS has complete control and the element of surprise. Ie Has been having the A, then dumps BS for OP. This seems to be the most damaging as the BS has little control other than maybe a plan B or D.

You know, if a person is sooo traumatized they have PTSD after their WS affair, then how do the have the emotional energy to invest in sneaking around for their own filthy little affair.

I know some of you guys say you were with single women, but I've seen so many stories where the RA is with a married person. A person who can't think clearly shouldn't be able to plan out such a betrayal.

Here's the reason I can't got with "revenge" affair". ANY affair can be called revenge affair. "Im getting revenge because my husband hit me." "I'm getting revenge because my wife has no respect for me." or "I'm getting revenge for going years without SF."

None of that works for me. If you can't forgive and reconcile, get a divorce and THEN date. What are we, a bunch of animals who can't wait a few months to mate like monkeys? I'd be embarrassed to admit that my whole life was tied up in "having to get some"..
that's definitely thinking with the little head.

I'd like to think I have more self control and self respect than that.

No, don't you see you are actually handing your WW MORE control, by lowering yourself to that level. Then you BOTH are BS and you don't have the moral high ground.

My advice would be to tell the MC that you feel the discussions are not helpful, since you feel you are spending an inordinate amount of time on the RA. If the MC objects, say fine and then ask when do they plan to spend time working through the orginal A. If they don't have a plan for that or the plan is unacceptable for you, tell them you are going to look for a new MC. If your WW objects, tell her that you realize its important to discuss your RA, but that it is important for you that both A's be worked through in a timely manner.

IMHO, the rest of the debate is merely window dressing. I don't see the need to establish a priority of wrongness. It won't matter to your M if everyone on the planet thinks the orginal A trumps the RA. If your WW doesn't think so, and you want to recover your M, then you are going to be stuck facing the consequences of your choice. If you feel, shooting straight with yourself, that you did nothing wrong, then don't accept any consequences and see what happens. I don't think that approach gives you the best chance for a successful recovery, but it isn't my M.

Obviously you do not understand PTSD.

Thanks for your definition, that was not was I was expecting. I would hate to think I could be assuming I was in a recovered marriage only to find my spouse had all along planned to have a revenge affair.

When people say RA, I think more of the BS thinking "while your out screwing your OP, I'll see what's out there for me". I can see that BS may crave a self esteem boost, or comfort while their S is having an affair.

But once there is a presumed recovery effort by BOTH the WS and the BS, I don't see that as revenge. I guess I assume to be working toward recovery there must be an air of forgiveness and that revenge is no longer a consideration.

Does anyone have any Harley quotes on revenge affairs? I've been searching to no avail. I'd be very interested in what he has to say. I try to not come here to a website which espouses certain values and methods, and advise against them. So maybe I better hush about this topic until I read up further.

For me, a RA has no logic, no excuse, and nothing good can come from it. Maybe I'm a hard-nose.

If anyone can point me to more reading on the matter, I'd like to study it. So far, I'm just thinking adding one wrong to another is 100% bad.