Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....

those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...

be still.....

In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....

be still...

There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....

easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....

but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..

fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...

the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....

the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....

they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...

be still

it takes time.....

too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...

it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night

working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...

be still

for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....

they did this...and they must undo this...

will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....

WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....

they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..

so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...

the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....

force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate

or even worse they will self destruct themselves....

be still....

don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that

be still
and then make your moves....

ARK^^

Cherished, ARK did not mean this by her BE STILL WRITINGS but I fear that this is what you mean by "BE STILL"!

Be still while your husband breaks your arm
Be still while the police are called, do not press charges
Be still as your husband beats you and your kids cry
Be still while your children witness the violent acts
Be still while your husband cheats on you again and again
Be still while your husband squeezes your head like a grape
Be still while you go to the hospital and lie about your injuries
Be still and lie some more about your husbands violence.
Be still as he beats you again and again
Be still as he verbally abuses you every day
Be still as he is mean to you and the kids
Be still and you might see one day in 100 of him being nice
Be still and wait for him to improve his violent ways
Be still until he kills you
Be still and he will hurt the children
Be still and ruin your life waiting for the next beating
Be still and enjoy the beating from your husband
Be still and watch him damage your brain
Be still and lose your spirit to even leave the violent man
Be still and be STUPID.

Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....

those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...

be still.....

In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....

be still...

There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....

easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....

but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..

fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...

the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....

the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....

they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...

be still

it takes time.....

too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...

it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night

working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...

be still

for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....

they did this...and they must undo this...

will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....

WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....

they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..

so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...

the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....

force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate

or even worse they will self destruct themselves....

be still....

don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that

be still
and then make your moves....

ARK^^

"Be still" is some of the worst(and most misunderstood) advice ever offered on these boards.

Be still while your children learn to become someones punching bag.

What is it to BE STILL?

"Be Still" - Stop thrashing. When an Emergency Services person comes to an accident scene, many times he has to immobilize the victims, because as they thrash about they cause themselves greater injury than the drunk that just mowed them down!

"Be Still" assess where the damage is. Listen to your body. Your heart. and your spirit. Stop the bleeding first. Get help! Find someone who can take care of your children while you go talk with a minister, a women's shelter operator, a lawyer. Find out what is, and what may need to be.

"Be Still" - Listen and pay attention while you assess your own weaknesses. Inventory your finances, your character, and especially what is truth about you - you can't trust the emotions running through your brain that say you are somehow LESS because your spouse became a cheater.

"Be Still" - Take the gerbil off the mental wheel. Think, study and pray, rather than shout abuses at the deserving. Don't let the wayward define who you will be in this crisis. Think before you speak. If you can't think, don't speak. There will always be time to speak later.

"Be Still" - Let your actions be strategic, thought out, meditated upon. Being still means lack of impulsive words or actions. A still and quiet mind is not an inactive or sleeping mind.

*Be Still" - work on the plan and let the plan work in you. You are still when you are thinking about how this makes you a better person, and your focus is NOT on the wayward - changing them, etc.

Be STILL!!!

*************

What being still is NOT:

* Indulgence in depressive thoughts. This is the opposite of stillness - this is the hamster in the cage, running out of control, accusing, blaming, stuck in victimitis.

* Reacting instead of acting. Reacting means trying to engage with a wayward. Reacting means trying to educate them into faithfulness again. Reacting is taking power to yourself that belongs to God!

* Waiting for the wayward to come home is not being still. Waiting for the wayward to leave the OW/OM is not being still. Waiting for the love to come back is not being still. That's called PARALYSIS!

* Endlessly meeting the wayward's needs without plan or forethought as to oneself is NOT BEING STILL. That's called thrashing about and causing more injury to the betrayed.

Exactly, KaylaAndy!

Very well put, KaylaAndy!
It's important that we not let WS throw us for a loop, we need to retain our power instead of letting them hurtle us to and fro.
But being still is NOT taking no action when action is needed...abuse requires action...it requires legal counsel, restraining order, and above all, getting to a safe place with your children. I think Cherished is trying to say that she didn't get it back when it took place and should have responded differently, but I'm not sure she "gets it" yet. She's learned some, learned a lot, but I don't think she fully realizes that her husband not only HAS been a danger but could STILL be a danger. I am amazed that someone who has had as much counseling as she has, and is as smart and educated as she is, still doesn't quite realize what we're trying to say. We aren't trying to attack, we're trying to WAKE UP! Some of the damage that has been done to her children is not going to be undone, it will be repeated in history. I know what you are saying, Cherished, when you say that some of the emotional abuse is harder than the physical abuse, but physical abuse is ALWAYS accompanied by emotional abuse, so it is not "lesser", it is compounded, and physical abuse can result in irreparable damage or loss of life! The outreach is not only to you and your children, but to society's helpless as well...the very ones we need to protect. Please, I know what I am talking about, I've been there (when I was quite young), and I can say it only escalates. If your husband has truly changed (and pardon me for being leery) great, but let him change ELSEWHERE and demonstrate it to SOMEONE ELSE, as for you, get you and your children OUT! Hold him to account, do not excuse him or look the other way, he needs to atone by way of paying his debt to society (prison and being kept away from children). You think this is too harsh, quite the contrary, it is good sound advice, heed it before it's too late. Get yourself to a women's shelter and talk to them!

The trouble that I see with the "be still" advice as its often interpreted here at MB is that right after D-Day, most BS's are paralyzed by fear and "be still" advice is interpreted by them as "do NOTHING".

IMHO, "Be Still" advice, especially to BH's, leads them directly to a pattern of weakness that is not overcome. A lot of times, I think you get one really good opportunity as a BH to stop the A and reclaim your rightful place as your WW's HUSBAND, and the "Be Still" advice often times SQUANDERS that opportunity.

MyRev, unfortunately, this site has a tendency to attract conflict avoiders who will use things like Plan A and "be still" as a rationale to do absolutely nothing to help themselves. They strive to maintain the status quo and if its not "be still" or the misapplication of Plan A, it would be something else. As long as that is their agenda, I have no doubt they will find what they are looking for anywhere they go.

That does not mean there is anything wrong with Plan A or with Ark's excellent advice, though. The problem lies with the conflict avoiders who are looking for excuses.

That is why people like you and I are necessary here; to wake up the paralyzed and the dazed to get them off the train tracks before it is too late.

ironically though even in the post itself....

it says about turmoil WEEKS and MONTHS after D-day...

I guess everyone should just know that anything and everything they say...neglect to say... do say... don't say..

can and will be used against them as the root cause for someone elses actions, inactions, choices, non choices...

since posts can control people...and make them do things....

and one is obviously better off not post at all...logically...

and in my opinion it is even better to be still right after d day instead on knee jerking and kicking the WS out....

and ranting and raving like a lunatic...it has been my experience those that are calm....are sometimes listening better than someone weilding a griswald cast iron skillet at someone's head...

as far I am concerned....
the dayum post should never ever be bumped it was written years ago....

and if you are going to bump it...or discuss it and pick it a part...

then atleast bump the latest one here...
with all the politicaly correct disclaimers...whith I am sure more to come......

most ironically is the post above with graphic violence of abuse..which will most likely never ever help anyone in an abusive relationship get out....especially where it calls people stupid...gets no comment....strange days indeed

yes shelters are full of counselors telling women and men they are stupid.....it is very effective in helping them

ARK

I did be still and all it got me was being an easy target to be blown out of the water, and that was by the people who were supposed to be there to comfort me.

Ark,

I didn't interpret the "Be still" post to be about staying in an abusive relationship. I interpreted it as accepting that the other person has made choices, and you have choices, too.

If you look at the thread about confronting an abusive father and apply the "Be still" post to it, you recognize that confronting an abusive father is ineffective and will just lead to the father justifying or downplaying his abuse or the mother protecting him. Instead, the "Be still" post is about allowing the mother to realize that she has dignity and, if her husband is not willing to treat her with dignity, then it is better to separate.

While I did not separate physically from my husband, I did separate emotionally and did tell him to leave. He responded to that when he has not responded to years of threats and checking up on him and thrashing around in therapy trying to figure out why he did what he did and why I took it for so long.

The book "Why Does He Do That?" is about focusing on the woman's dignity in an abusive relationship with a man. The recommendation is separation. The recommendation to friends and family of the abusive woman is to support her, respect her, and help her to realize her own dignity.

Yours is a beautiful post because it is about a BS reclaiming personal dignity. I think it's the best one I've seen on the board.

Cherished

Arks' post is very valuable advice when applied rightly. She never intended it be used to HARM and expected folks to use common sense in its application.

When new BS' come here they are usually overly excited and as a result, make strategic mistakes. [like moving out to give the WS some "space"] Dr Harley even warns about how emotions run riot can prevent a person from following a strategic plan.

and morgues are full of people that were killed by their abusers because some fool convinced them to wait, plan...be still. Worse is when children get pulled into too.

I have never seen a counselor call someone stupid...but they have held a very clear mirror up to the person that now only WANTS to see things in a distorted fashion.

Ark...I am assuming you have never carried bodies of abused children, women or even men.

The "qualified" be still advice is certainly good. Sadly, people are manipulating this advice to keep themselves and their children in harms way.

That is unconscionable.

I defy anyone to find one post....where I tell anyone getting abused to STAY...

no where in be still does it say that...not in one place....
it does clearly state that not all marriages should be saved....

I have consistantly advocated for

being safe over and over and over adnauseum...
lets see my advice is and always has been get to shelter
get information
get a plan
keep a secret cell phone on you at all times
have an escape route
never let the abuser block your exit
and NEVER EVER EVER told someone to subject their children to any type of abuse...EVER.....

over and over and over and over....

this is insanity in my opinion.....

that this post that is soley about quit focusing on why an ACTIVE WS ....says this or that baloney...
quit ruminating...about it...
quit driving YOURSELF crazy and get on with YOUR life....
THAT is what the post about....
nothing about getting hit....
this post has and had nothing applicable to an abusive situation as does NONE of marriage builders on this forum....



as a long time member of this forum it is understood that I stand behind the principle of its founders that
THIS forum does not work and should not even be attempted with anyone who is addicted under the influence or abusive...
dont EVEN read one post here without reading the owners principles...it's a waste of time....

so are you suggesting that every post I post...come with that disclaimer....
uhh none of what I or anyone says is applicable if you are getting hit...uhhh duuhhhhhhhh

I can not fathom how MY post is suddenly responsible for people getting bashed around...

line up the law suits...
have your people call my people...

and having worked in shelters....I garuntee you that though the counselors and volunteers many think that people staying in abusive situations are stupid.....telling them won't and doesn't help....nor have I ever shied away from telling someone to get out.....
ever....
I am a huge advocate of cutting ties...

and the word of plan that you so like to twist...uhhh this whole site is based on a plan...
so when I say plan..
I mean
plan A
plan B
plan D
all done is marriages without addiction and or abuse period...


ABUSE and marriage building ARE not the same...and I have never ever linked the two...
ever....

I never have and never will tell anyone who is being abused to stay and take it...

call the mods and get the effing post deleted...
I really really don't care...

obviously my ability to communicate is not adequate

I still say that the grapically violent image post does more at turning away people that ARE getting abused does more damage
and would scare them off than my be still post....which has nothing to do with an abuse issue....

beleive me you don't walk in to a safe house and see a poster displaying acts of violence to assist those there...
and people that see that...will turn away in fear....fearing that if they do admit anything..they will be called name...

MEDC you know nothing about me....

ARK

thinking someone is stupid and calling them the name are two different things.




I like the use of a plan for marriage building.




I don't remember suggesting that you did. It is bad advice to be still when dealing with abuse. YOU have not linked the two...others have.


drama.


Happily, I agree.

I was a beneficiary of the Be Still post, (though not till after the A was over), and also had the sense to interpret it correctly.

Even though I had very good control of my actions during and after the A, my thoughts and feelings went wild for months. I needed to be still. Sure, act when it was time to act, but calm and soothe myself in the meantime. Not staying caught up in all the drama.

It is hard for me to believe the BeSt post could be so badly misinterpreted.

Pariah, I feel very sad for what you went through with your WW and EVIL psuedochurch nonfamily. What they all did was horrible. But you are letting them define the whole rest of your life by holding on to your fully-justified anger. At some point I hope you can let go for your own sake and step forward. You are entitled to your anger, and yet it has become your constant companion, leaving no room for the peace and joy that could be yours.

Hi Cherished

Whenever I come back to MB, you are one of the posters I look up to see how you're doing. I'm always glad to see an update from you.

I was happy to see this reply of yours after reading KaylaAndy's explanation of Ark's "Be Still" post. (Hi KaylaAndy....I'm going to talk about you for a minute )

There have been many times that I have come back to MB to look up KA's posts over the years. I think that she is gifted in confronting difficult and painful issues in a way that is caring, compassionate, and understandable on many different levels. I think that she has a knack for recognizing where someone is and helping them move forward from that place....and she does it in a way that helps to elevate a person's battered and tattered self esteem.

It is not uncommon for people who were abused or mistreated to pick up the tactics and traits of those who mistreated them without even realizing it. Most times, they don't realize that their behavior is harmful because in their minds they're "doing it for good not evil" or some similar notion....and it happens on a subconscious level most times.

It is also not uncommon for people to seek out people or situations that will fill the void when the original perpetrator(s) is not currently mistreating or abusing them. I haven't been at MB consistently enough to see if that is a pattern of yours, but it has crossed my mind more than once when reading your threads....and I think it's worth taking a look at. It happens on a subconscious level until it is brought to a conscious level where it can be worked through.

Cherished, I'm glad to see that you decided to stay around for a bit instead of leaving until next fall like you considered. Your threads tend to bring out high emotion in people....and that can make it easier for people to identify their own issues that are hindering them in their lives (if they choose). I want to thank you for all your threads and posts that I've read over the years....they have played a part in my own recovery process.

Take care

Loving Boundaries,

Thanks for your encouraging words. What seems to have been lost in all these threads is that things are going well. True -- it's only since about mid-July, but I'm happy.

Ark's thread was explicitly about a BS dealing with a WS, not about an abused wife dealing with her husband. I am solely responsible for how I have applied her thoughts. As is said, "even the devil can quote Scripture." It may be that I am misapplying Ark's thread, but I don't think so. I've finally given value to my own dignity, my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own goals...

As for what you said about finding others to fill the void, I've thought that might be the case in the last few days because, at times, the tone has not been very respectful.

We've had some rough times in the last year with my medical treatment and my husband changing jobs twice this year. In early July, I told him I don't know if I detest him or despise him, but the feeling is beyond hate. Even anticipating another surgery on my forehead, which was on July 25th, I was willing to get him out. Why? It just was over the top what happened in February - April and then in late June and then at the 4th of July.

Here is a very self-contained example: A classmate of my son since kindergarten has been a very good friend, and his mother was diagnosed with cancer when he was in kindergarten. She had a relapse three years ago and, after a valiant struggle, died in June. I missed the funeral, and my husband stayed home to take two of our children to the funeral. I was at the Mayo Clinic for an appointment that I had set up two months before because there was a tiny lump in my forehead that might be a recurrence. Before the funeral, my husband got upset at my daughter and told her he would move out if she didn't stop monkey around. He left for the funeral without her. She called me very upset. She was friends with the daughter and couldn't go to the funeral, Dad was saying he was moving out, and Mom was at the doctor to see if her cancer had recurred. I got off the phone to her and on the phone to him to ask him to please go back and get our daughter to go to the funeral. I was on the cell phone as I went into the doctor's appointment. It was one of those moments when I had to ask myself what sort of man I was married to.

Things shifted after that.

I once called the radio show to tell Joyce that I was trying to find the marital equivalent of what she had done to Bill before they married, which was dump him seven times. He figured out before marriage that she wasn't sticking around unless he treated her well.

Now, through his own choice and perhaps a bit out of fear that he would be a divorced Dad, he's really making an effort to be a good husband and father. I told him last week that I really appreciate what he is doing. He wants us to go on walks to the coffee store and spend time just talking, he's calling me and telling me about his day and asking me about his, he's proposed going camping more which I love, and he's trying to understand where I coming from in making decisions such as who to select for putting a new roof on our house.

This from a guy who used to say "Leave me alone."

I came on the forum to give an update. It is premature. After all, 15 years of a bad marriage followed by 2 months of a civil but not intimate relationship.... It reminds me of the Shakespearean line, "One swallow does not a summer make."

I concur with Ark that she is not responsible for my staying with my husband. I thank her for the post which got me to thinking about my own dignity.

Cherished

It might be worth sticking around for a while to figure it out and to begin working through it if you find that it is the case. And if you wanted to, you could use your threads for trying out different ways to set and enforce boundaries when you think you're being treated disrespectfully.


I read on another thread about the time that you removed yourself from the line of fire by going outside (good! ) in the cold with no shoes (need some work on that one). I hope that next time you will give yourself time to put on warm socks, shoes, coat, gloves, scarf, etc. Heck, make a cup of hot coffee or hot chocolate to take with you to warm your insides too! Recovery isn't just about no longer tolerating abuse from others....it's about learning to treat yourself well too.


I'm glad that you gave your update. I agree with you that it's premature to think that his change in behavior is a lasting change....there has not been enough time for it to prove out. But that doesn't really matter right now, imho.....I think what matters is that you make a realistic plan for what you will do if/when he starts slipping back so that you don't start slipping back on your end in the cycle of abuse.


I think that I understood what you meant about her post. I thought that, for you, being still might enable you to recognize the chaos that is typical with abuse....both the external and the internal chaos.

I'm glad that it also got you thinking about your dignity. I think that one of the reasons that people's emotions tend to run high on your threads is because they already are thinking of your dignity and see value and worth in you that you don't seem to see.

Take care