Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....
those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...
be still.....
In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....
be still...
There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....
easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....
but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..
fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...
the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....
the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....
they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...
be still
it takes time.....
too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...
it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night
working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...
be still
for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....
they did this...and they must undo this...
will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....
WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....
they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..
so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...
the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....
force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate
or even worse they will self destruct themselves....
be still....
don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that
be still
and then make your moves....
ARK^^
Cherished, ARK did not mean this by her BE STILL WRITINGS but I fear that this is what you mean by "BE STILL"!
Be still while your husband breaks your arm
Be still while the police are called, do not press charges
Be still as your husband beats you and your kids cry
Be still while your children witness the violent acts
Be still while your husband cheats on you again and again
Be still while your husband squeezes your head like a grape
Be still while you go to the hospital and lie about your injuries
Be still and lie some more about your husbands violence.
Be still as he beats you again and again
Be still as he verbally abuses you every day
Be still as he is mean to you and the kids
Be still and you might see one day in 100 of him being nice
Be still and wait for him to improve his violent ways
Be still until he kills you
Be still and he will hurt the children
Be still and ruin your life waiting for the next beating
Be still and enjoy the beating from your husband
Be still and watch him damage your brain
Be still and lose your spirit to even leave the violent man
Be still and be STUPID.
Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....
those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...
be still.....
In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....
be still...
There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....
easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....
but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..
fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...
the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....
the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....
they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...
be still
it takes time.....
too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...
it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night
working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...
be still
for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....
they did this...and they must undo this...
will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....
WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....
they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..
so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...
the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....
force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate
or even worse they will self destruct themselves....
be still....
don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that
be still
and then make your moves....
ARK^^
"Be still" is some of the worst(and most misunderstood) advice ever offered on these boards.
Be still while your children learn to become someones punching bag.
What is it to BE STILL?
"Be Still" - Stop thrashing. When an Emergency Services person comes to an accident scene, many times he has to immobilize the victims, because as they thrash about they cause themselves greater injury than the drunk that just mowed them down!
"Be Still" assess where the damage is. Listen to your body. Your heart. and your spirit. Stop the bleeding first. Get help! Find someone who can take care of your children while you go talk with a minister, a women's shelter operator, a lawyer. Find out what is, and what may need to be.
"Be Still" - Listen and pay attention while you assess your own weaknesses. Inventory your finances, your character, and especially what is truth about you - you can't trust the emotions running through your brain that say you are somehow LESS because your spouse became a cheater.
"Be Still" - Take the gerbil off the mental wheel. Think, study and pray, rather than shout abuses at the deserving. Don't let the wayward define who you will be in this crisis. Think before you speak. If you can't think, don't speak. There will always be time to speak later.
"Be Still" - Let your actions be strategic, thought out, meditated upon. Being still means lack of impulsive words or actions. A still and quiet mind is not an inactive or sleeping mind.
*Be Still" - work on the plan and let the plan work in you. You are still when you are thinking about how this makes you a better person, and your focus is NOT on the wayward - changing them, etc.
Be STILL!!!
*************
What being still is NOT:
* Indulgence in depressive thoughts. This is the opposite of stillness - this is the hamster in the cage, running out of control, accusing, blaming, stuck in victimitis.
* Reacting instead of acting. Reacting means trying to engage with a wayward. Reacting means trying to educate them into faithfulness again. Reacting is taking power to yourself that belongs to God!
* Waiting for the wayward to come home is not being still. Waiting for the wayward to leave the OW/OM is not being still. Waiting for the love to come back is not being still. That's called PARALYSIS!
* Endlessly meeting the wayward's needs without plan or forethought as to oneself is NOT BEING STILL. That's called thrashing about and causing more injury to the betrayed.
Very well put, KaylaAndy!
It's important that we not let WS throw us for a loop, we need to retain our power instead of letting them hurtle us to and fro.
But being still is NOT taking no action when action is needed...abuse requires action...it requires legal counsel, restraining order, and above all, getting to a safe place with your children. I think Cherished is trying to say that she didn't get it back when it took place and should have responded differently, but I'm not sure she "gets it" yet. She's learned some, learned a lot, but I don't think she fully realizes that her husband not only HAS been a danger but could STILL be a danger. I am amazed that someone who has had as much counseling as she has, and is as smart and educated as she is, still doesn't quite realize what we're trying to say. We aren't trying to attack, we're trying to WAKE UP! Some of the damage that has been done to her children is not going to be undone, it will be repeated in history. I know what you are saying, Cherished, when you say that some of the emotional abuse is harder than the physical abuse, but physical abuse is ALWAYS accompanied by emotional abuse, so it is not "lesser", it is compounded, and physical abuse can result in irreparable damage or loss of life! The outreach is not only to you and your children, but to society's helpless as well...the very ones we need to protect. Please, I know what I am talking about, I've been there (when I was quite young), and I can say it only escalates. If your husband has truly changed (and pardon me for being leery) great, but let him change ELSEWHERE and demonstrate it to SOMEONE ELSE, as for you, get you and your children OUT! Hold him to account, do not excuse him or look the other way, he needs to atone by way of paying his debt to society (prison and being kept away from children). You think this is too harsh, quite the contrary, it is good sound advice, heed it before it's too late. Get yourself to a women's shelter and talk to them!
The trouble that I see with the "be still" advice as its often interpreted here at MB is that right after D-Day, most BS's are paralyzed by fear and "be still" advice is interpreted by them as "do NOTHING".
IMHO, "Be Still" advice, especially to BH's, leads them directly to a pattern of weakness that is not overcome. A lot of times, I think you get one really good opportunity as a BH to stop the A and reclaim your rightful place as your WW's HUSBAND, and the "Be Still" advice often times SQUANDERS that opportunity.
MyRev, unfortunately, this site has a tendency to attract conflict avoiders who will use things like Plan A and "be still" as a rationale to do absolutely nothing to help themselves. They strive to maintain the status quo and if its not "be still" or the misapplication of Plan A, it would be something else. As long as that is their agenda, I have no doubt they will find what they are looking for anywhere they go.
That does not mean there is anything wrong with Plan A or with Ark's excellent advice, though. The problem lies with the conflict avoiders who are looking for excuses.
That is why people like you and I are necessary here; to wake up the paralyzed and the dazed to get them off the train tracks before it is too late.
ironically though even in the post itself....
it says about turmoil WEEKS and MONTHS after D-day...
I guess everyone should just know that anything and everything they say...neglect to say... do say... don't say..
can and will be used against them as the root cause for someone elses actions, inactions, choices, non choices...
since posts can control people...and make them do things....
and one is obviously better off not post at all...logically...
and in my opinion it is even better to be still right after d day instead on knee jerking and kicking the WS out....
and ranting and raving like a lunatic...it has been my experience those that are calm....are sometimes listening better than someone weilding a griswald cast iron skillet at someone's head...
as far I am concerned....
the dayum post should never ever be bumped it was written years ago....
and if you are going to bump it...or discuss it and pick it a part...
then atleast bump the latest one here...
with all the politicaly correct disclaimers...whith I am sure more to come......
most ironically is the post above with graphic violence of abuse..which will most likely never ever help anyone in an abusive relationship get out....especially where it calls people stupid...gets no comment....strange days indeed
yes shelters are full of counselors telling women and men they are stupid.....it is very effective in helping them
ARK
I did be still and all it got me was being an easy target to be blown out of the water, and that was by the people who were supposed to be there to comfort me.
Ark,
I didn't interpret the "Be still" post to be about staying in an abusive relationship. I interpreted it as accepting that the other person has made choices, and you have choices, too.
If you look at the thread about confronting an abusive father and apply the "Be still" post to it, you recognize that confronting an abusive father is ineffective and will just lead to the father justifying or downplaying his abuse or the mother protecting him. Instead, the "Be still" post is about allowing the mother to realize that she has dignity and, if her husband is not willing to treat her with dignity, then it is better to separate.
While I did not separate physically from my husband, I did separate emotionally and did tell him to leave. He responded to that when he has not responded to years of threats and checking up on him and thrashing around in therapy trying to figure out why he did what he did and why I took it for so long.
The book "Why Does He Do That?" is about focusing on the woman's dignity in an abusive relationship with a man. The recommendation is separation. The recommendation to friends and family of the abusive woman is to support her, respect her, and help her to realize her own dignity.
Yours is a beautiful post because it is about a BS reclaiming personal dignity. I think it's the best one I've seen on the board.
Cherished
Arks' post is very valuable advice when applied rightly. She never intended it be used to HARM and expected folks to use common sense in its application.
When new BS' come here they are usually overly excited and as a result, make strategic mistakes. [like moving out to give the WS some "space"] Dr Harley even warns about how emotions run riot can prevent a person from following a strategic plan.
yes shelters are full of counselors telling women and men they are stupid.....it is very effective in helping them
and morgues are full of people that were killed by their abusers because some fool convinced them to wait, plan...be still. Worse is when children get pulled into too.
I have never seen a counselor call someone stupid...but they have held a very clear mirror up to the person that now only WANTS to see things in a distorted fashion.
Ark...I am assuming you have never carried bodies of abused children, women or even men.
The "qualified" be still advice is certainly good. Sadly, people are manipulating this advice to keep themselves and their children in harms way.
That is unconscionable.
I defy anyone to find one post....where I tell anyone getting abused to STAY...
no where in be still does it say that...not in one place....
it does clearly state that not all marriages should be saved....
I have consistantly advocated for
being safe over and over and over adnauseum...
lets see my advice is and always has been get to shelter
get information
get a plan
keep a secret cell phone on you at all times
have an escape route
never let the abuser block your exit
and NEVER EVER EVER told someone to subject their children to any type of abuse...EVER.....
over and over and over and over....
this is insanity in my opinion.....
that this post that is soley about quit focusing on why an ACTIVE WS ....says this or that baloney...
quit ruminating...about it...
quit driving YOURSELF crazy and get on with YOUR life....
THAT is what the post about....
nothing about getting hit....
this post has and had nothing applicable to an abusive situation as does NONE of marriage builders on this forum....
as a long time member of this forum it is understood that I stand behind the principle of its founders that
THIS forum does not work and should not even be attempted with anyone who is addicted under the influence or abusive...
dont EVEN read one post here without reading the owners principles...it's a waste of time....
so are you suggesting that every post I post...come with that disclaimer....
uhh none of what I or anyone says is applicable if you are getting hit...uhhh duuhhhhhhhh
I can not fathom how MY post is suddenly responsible for people getting bashed around...
line up the law suits...
have your people call my people...
and having worked in shelters....I garuntee you that though the counselors and volunteers many think that people staying in abusive situations are stupid.....telling them won't and doesn't help....nor have I ever shied away from telling someone to get out.....
ever....
I am a huge advocate of cutting ties...
and the word of plan that you so like to twist...uhhh this whole site is based on a plan...
so when I say plan..
I mean
plan A
plan B
plan D
all done is marriages without addiction and or abuse period...
ABUSE and marriage building ARE not the same...and I have never ever linked the two...
ever....
I never have and never will tell anyone who is being abused to stay and take it...
call the mods and get the effing post deleted...
I really really don't care...
obviously my ability to communicate is not adequate
I still say that the grapically violent image post does more at turning away people that ARE getting abused does more damage
and would scare them off than my be still post....which has nothing to do with an abuse issue....
beleive me you don't walk in to a safe house and see a poster displaying acts of violence to assist those there...
and people that see that...will turn away in fear....fearing that if they do admit anything..they will be called name...
MEDC you know nothing about me....
ARK
I garuntee you that though the counselors and volunteers many think that people staying in abusive situations are stupid.....telling them won't and doesn't help
thinking someone is stupid and calling them the name are two different things.
and the word of plan that you so like to twist...uhhh this whole site is based on a plan...
I like the use of a plan for marriage building.
ABUSE and marriage building ARE not the same...and I have never ever linked the two...
ever....
I don't remember suggesting that you did. It is bad advice to be still when dealing with abuse. YOU have not linked the two...others have.
call the mods and get the effing post deleted...
I really really don't care...
drama.
MEDC you know nothing about me....
Happily, I agree.
I was a beneficiary of the Be Still post, (though not till after the A was over), and also had the sense to interpret it correctly.
Even though I had very good control of my actions during and after the A, my thoughts and feelings went wild for months. I needed to be still. Sure, act when it was time to act, but calm and soothe myself in the meantime. Not staying caught up in all the drama.
It is hard for me to believe the BeSt post could be so badly misinterpreted.
Pariah, I feel very sad for what you went through with your WW and EVIL psuedochurch nonfamily. What they all did was horrible. But you are letting them define the whole rest of your life by holding on to your fully-justified anger. At some point I hope you can let go for your own sake and step forward. You are entitled to your anger, and yet it has become your constant companion, leaving no room for the peace and joy that could be yours.
Hi Cherished
Whenever I come back to MB, you are one of the posters I look up to see how you're doing. I'm always glad to see an update from you.
I was happy to see this reply of yours after reading KaylaAndy's explanation of Ark's "Be Still" post. (Hi KaylaAndy....I'm going to talk about you for a minute
)
There have been many times that I have come back to MB to look up KA's posts over the years. I think that she is gifted in confronting difficult and painful issues in a way that is caring, compassionate, and understandable on many different levels. I think that she has a knack for recognizing where someone is and helping them move forward from that place....and she does it in a way that helps to elevate a person's battered and tattered self esteem.
It is not uncommon for people who were abused or mistreated to pick up the tactics and traits of those who mistreated them without even realizing it. Most times, they don't realize that their behavior is harmful because in their minds they're "doing it for good not evil" or some similar notion....and it happens on a subconscious level most times.
It is also not uncommon for people to seek out people or situations that will fill the void when the original perpetrator(s) is not currently mistreating or abusing them. I haven't been at MB consistently enough to see if that is a pattern of yours, but it has crossed my mind more than once when reading your threads....and I think it's worth taking a look at. It happens on a subconscious level until it is brought to a conscious level where it can be worked through.
Cherished, I'm glad to see that you decided to stay around for a bit instead of leaving until next fall like you considered. Your threads tend to bring out high emotion in people....and that can make it easier for people to identify their own issues that are hindering them in their lives (if they choose). I want to thank you for all your threads and posts that I've read over the years....they have played a part in my own recovery process.
Take care
Loving Boundaries,
Thanks for your encouraging words. What seems to have been lost in all these threads is that things are going well. True -- it's only since about mid-July, but I'm happy.
Ark's thread was explicitly about a BS dealing with a WS, not about an abused wife dealing with her husband. I am solely responsible for how I have applied her thoughts. As is said, "even the devil can quote Scripture." It may be that I am misapplying Ark's thread, but I don't think so. I've finally given value to my own dignity, my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own goals...
As for what you said about finding others to fill the void, I've thought that might be the case in the last few days because, at times, the tone has not been very respectful.
We've had some rough times in the last year with my medical treatment and my husband changing jobs twice this year. In early July, I told him I don't know if I detest him or despise him, but the feeling is beyond hate. Even anticipating another surgery on my forehead, which was on July 25th, I was willing to get him out. Why? It just was over the top what happened in February - April and then in late June and then at the 4th of July.
Here is a very self-contained example: A classmate of my son since kindergarten has been a very good friend, and his mother was diagnosed with cancer when he was in kindergarten. She had a relapse three years ago and, after a valiant struggle, died in June. I missed the funeral, and my husband stayed home to take two of our children to the funeral. I was at the Mayo Clinic for an appointment that I had set up two months before because there was a tiny lump in my forehead that might be a recurrence. Before the funeral, my husband got upset at my daughter and told her he would move out if she didn't stop monkey around. He left for the funeral without her. She called me very upset. She was friends with the daughter and couldn't go to the funeral, Dad was saying he was moving out, and Mom was at the doctor to see if her cancer had recurred. I got off the phone to her and on the phone to him to ask him to please go back and get our daughter to go to the funeral. I was on the cell phone as I went into the doctor's appointment. It was one of those moments when I had to ask myself what sort of man I was married to.
Things shifted after that.
I once called the radio show to tell Joyce that I was trying to find the marital equivalent of what she had done to Bill before they married, which was dump him seven times. He figured out before marriage that she wasn't sticking around unless he treated her well.
Now, through his own choice and perhaps a bit out of fear that he would be a divorced Dad, he's really making an effort to be a good husband and father. I told him last week that I really appreciate what he is doing. He wants us to go on walks to the coffee store and spend time just talking, he's calling me and telling me about his day and asking me about his, he's proposed going camping more which I love, and he's trying to understand where I coming from in making decisions such as who to select for putting a new roof on our house.
This from a guy who used to say "Leave me alone."
I came on the forum to give an update. It is premature. After all, 15 years of a bad marriage followed by 2 months of a civil but not intimate relationship.... It reminds me of the Shakespearean line, "One swallow does not a summer make."
I concur with Ark that she is not responsible for my staying with my husband. I thank her for the post which got me to thinking about my own dignity.
Cherished
As for what you said about finding others to fill the void, I've thought that might be the case in the last few days because, at times, the tone has not been very respectful.
It might be worth sticking around for a while to figure it out and to begin working through it if you find that it is the case. And if you wanted to, you could use your threads for trying out different ways to set and enforce boundaries when you think you're being treated disrespectfully.
I read on another thread about the time that you removed yourself from the line of fire by going outside (good!
) in the cold with no shoes (need some work on that one). I hope that next time you will give yourself time to put on warm socks, shoes, coat, gloves, scarf, etc. Heck, make a cup of hot coffee or hot chocolate to take with you to warm your insides too!
Recovery isn't just about no longer tolerating abuse from others....it's about learning to treat yourself well too.
I came on the forum to give an update. It is premature.
I'm glad that you gave your update. I agree with you that it's premature to think that his change in behavior is a lasting change....there has not been enough time for it to prove out. But that doesn't really matter right now, imho.....I think what matters is that you make a realistic plan for what you will do if/when he starts slipping back so that you don't start slipping back on your end in the cycle of abuse.
I concur with Ark that she is not responsible for my staying with my husband. I thank her for the post which got me to thinking about my own dignity.
I think that I understood what you meant about her post. I thought that, for you, being still might enable you to recognize the chaos that is typical with abuse....both the external and the internal chaos.
I'm glad that it also got you thinking about your dignity. I think that one of the reasons that people's emotions tend to run high on your threads is because they already are thinking of your dignity and see value and worth in you that you don't seem to see.
Take care
As for what you said about finding others to fill the void, I've thought that might be the case in the last few days because, at times, the tone has not been very respectful.
The "cry" of the loser. When you can't debate a position based on its merit/facts...well, discredit the poster.
Frankly, ANY parent that puts their children's safety ...as well as their own...does not deserve respect...they deserve a swift kick in the pants and a visit from child services to move their children to a place where their safety can be assured.
LB --
He prevented me from getting my coat and shoes. I was not, absolutely not, going to stay inside on a Christmas Eve while he yelled at me. I was not scared. I was furious!
That's part of deciding I am not going to be treated badly anymore. Period.
A long time ago, I decided that if you are forced to choose between dignity and your marriage and you choose your marriage, you will lose both.
Now that I have chosen my dignity, I hope my marriage could recover. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I'll still have my dignity.
Cherished
Frankly, ANY parent that puts their children's safety ...as well as their own...does not deserve respect...they deserve a swift kick in the pants and a visit from child services to move their children to a place where their safety can be assured.
medc, the way you described how your XW got out of hand with you, others on your thread questioned you at the time about whether you had made the right choices for your situation, too. I think we do the best we know how, and when we know better, we do better. I think a lot of us benefit from the accountability on the board.
i agree, the difference is, she is not my partner...nor does she reside here. No one can prevent a person from acting out at times...but they can choose to get their children out of harms way.
My ex has not had opportunity to act that way since then. Also, we are talking about the difference between a slap or nails getting dug into an arm versus a broken arm and forehead. I am capable of defending myself should the situation ever arise again...and I am capable of keeping her away.
If Cherish's husband hit her...or abused her...and he was removed from the situation, I would support her. As it stands, she sleeps with the enemy.
My ex, even though she has exceptionally limited access was given two choices...a restraining order or working with an abuse specialist. If she were living here, she would have to go until she demonstrated for a very long period that she has indeed changed.
Cherished, I feel that because of your husband's 30+ years of abuse as a husband, you should leave him today.
SO WHAT IF HE DID NOT ABUSE YOU OR THE CHILDREN FOR THE LAST "13 OR SO" DAYS!!!!!!
Would 13 lousy days of NON-ABUSE keep you living with that monster????
LEAVE HIM NOW!
He prevented me from getting my coat and shoes. I was not, absolutely not, going to stay inside on a Christmas Eve while he yelled at me.
Did you know that the police could get your coat and shoes? All you would need to do is tell them that you need to leave due to his yelling and he was preventing you from getting them. No charges, no report, no anything.....I think they call it Welfare Check or something like that.
Plus, the odds would go up that he wouldn't prevent you from getting what you need the next time you found it necessary to get away from him or his yelling....since the police would just get your stuff for you.
It doesn't have to be All or Nothing, like either put him in jail or just endure whatever he subjects you to. You can ask for exactly the help that you need when you need it....like getting your coat and shoes for you.
The POLICE should NOT be called for that! It is NOT a legitimate call and a waste of an officers time.
A welfare check is checking on the well being of a person that has not been heard from by friends or family.
The POLICE should NOT be called for that! It is NOT a legitimate call and a waste of an officers time.
Cherished, you might want to check with your local police department....where I live it is considered to be a legitimate reason to call the police and is not considered to be a waste of time. The police advise this call to be made as do attorneys and the prosecutor.
medc, sorry that my guess on the terminology might be wrong....maybe it's Citizen Assistance?
The name of the call doesn't matter, really....what matters is whether or not her local police department provides assistance and protection before it becomes necessary to "carry the bodies of the abused" as you call it.
Getting someones shoes and socks after an argument is NOT the job of the police...ANYWHERE. Police and prosecutors do not advise someone to make the call based on what you said. They would advise them to come to the house to get a persons belongings if they are moving out...and in need of protection. But to be called for the reason you stated is beyond ridiculous(my husband was yelling and I need my shoes...sure lady, we'll be right over). Providing assistance and protection have NOTHING to do with a person getting shoes and a coat after an argument...if the person is going back inside. Geez.
Did you know that the police could get your coat and shoes? All you would need to do is tell them that you need to leave due to his yelling and he was preventing you from getting them.
I must be living on MARS, but how would a little yelling prevent a person from getting their shoes? I am not getting that. Are women really that weak?
MEDC, do women really call the police because someone is yelling at them??
Cherished ran from the house because she was afraid...understandable. Her going back in is NOT understandable.
She didn't want to wait and get her shoes. But the shockingly ridiculous part is that, she thinks this is enforcing boundaries...running and standing outside in bare feet.
MEDC, do women really call the police because someone is yelling at them??
Only dysfunctional ones.
do women really call the police because someone is yelling at them??
I know that wouldn't stop me but I guess in the case of prior abuse, the yelling could be a signal (based on their history) that he's about to blow.
do women really call the police because someone is yelling at them??
I know that wouldn't stop me but I guess in the case of prior abuse, the yelling could be a signal (based on their history) that he's about to blow.
Exactly, she was smart to leave...not so smart to go back when it appeared as though her abuser was fine. I am wondering if she took the kids outside with her as well. If not, she left them in there with the abuser.
Mel, we had a lot of stupid calls.
Termites
Rat in the basement
Heater not working
Can't get my car started
My husband yelled at me
real emergency chit.
do women really call the police because someone is yelling at them??
I know that wouldn't stop me but I guess in the case of prior abuse, the yelling could be a signal (based on their history) that he's about to blow.
I agree. Could also be that this "yelling" was sugarcoated by Cherished and it was actually a lot more than that.
Charlotte
Getting someones shoes and socks after an argument is NOT the job of the police...ANYWHERE.
medc, you are mistaken. There are a lot of states, counties, and cities in the US and maybe they don't all do things the same way?
I guess that I took for granted that I live in a place where abuse is taken seriously enough to not require people to either put themselves in harm's way trying to get their shoes, purse, medicine, whatever, or to stand out in the cold after leaving a situation before it escalates further.
Cherished, check with your local police department to see what they advise in that situation.
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
not enough beef in my pepper steak
bad grades on a report card
car parked in "my spot" on a public street
they moved my trash cans
lawn mower clippings on my sidewalk
blah, blah, blah...
guess that I took for granted that I live in a place where abuse is taken seriously enough to not require people to either put themselves in harm's way trying to get their shoes, purse, medicine, whatever, or to stand out in the cold after leaving a situation before it escalates further.
No, I am not mistaken.
Abuse would necessitate an arrest. What was being discussed here would NOT fall under the legal definition of abuse.
Honestly, you are either making this up...or are just woefully uninformed.
This is NOT a job for the police.
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
He'd get one swing.
MEDC, what if I call the police and say the magic chick words "I DON'T FEEL SAFE." Do the police come running?
WHAT would you do after that one swing?
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
See this is hard for me to answer because it wouldn't get past the point of yelling with me. I'd walk away. There would be no escalation.
I agree. Could also be that this "yelling" was sugarcoated by Cherished and it was actually a lot more than that.
Which is typical in cases of abuse.
Competent police officers are aware of that as are the dispatchers who take the calls and assess where to place it on the list for dispatching an officer.
MEDC, what if I call the police and say the magic chick words "I DON'T FEEL SAFE." Do the police come running?
It all depends on their answer to the "why" question.
Some people don't feel safe if they see a mouse or a little snake...
doesn't make it the job of the police.
The job of the police is to enforce the law, prevent crime and assist those in cases of emergencies.
Calling the police because of shoes is tantamount to calling the rescue squad for a headache. It is a waste of resources.
WHAT would you do after that one swing?
See my answer above. Seriously, he wouldn't get a swing because I would never STAND there and take it... the yelling getting out of control and escalating to violence.
If you want to take it further and say if it came out of nowhere and he just swung, I can't fathom that either because that's not the kind of guy I married. KWIM? But I'd probably try and defend myself and run as soon as possible.
But I'd probably try and defend myself and run as soon as possible.
How would you defend yourself? That is a novel idea. Can you tell me more?
I agree. Could also be that this "yelling" was sugarcoated by Cherished and it was actually a lot more than that.
Which is typical in cases of abuse.
Competent police officers are aware of that as are the dispatchers who take the calls and assess where to place it on the list for dispatching an officer.
Yes, it is typical for abuse cases...but NOT for radio calls. People EXAGERATE the reasons for the calls to get an officer out there.
Women are NOTORIOUS for saying they were hit when they were not. In as many cases as not, a woman would strike her husband and then call the police herself "claiming" abuse. It was always a hoot to see their faces when you locked them up...either for domestic assault or for a false statement to police.
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
Assuming he could even get a "first blow" in, which is remote since I have quick reflexes, he'd have to sucker punch me from behind.
Well, if that happened it would be a beeline to the phone for me and jail for him.
I dated a guy who turned out to be an abuser. "Adios," said I. So he kidnapped my dog. (Or dognapped, whatever.) I called his mom and got my dog back. He bothered me for a while until he found his next victim.
My Mom tried to help a lady that lived in our complex when I was a little kid. Her husband beat the crap out of her on a regular basis. She wouldn't leave. He pushed her down a flight of stairs, too, at one point. I don't know what happened to that poor woman, we moved out of town not long after. I'll have to ask my Mom sometime.
I use to work with a lady who would come to work beat up or miss work because her husband beat her up. It could be as simple as: The family did not eat out of serving dishes. He insisted they do it even if he wasn't there. He wouldn't allow eating out of pots on the stove.
A lot of us at work tried to help her, offered her a place to hide, offered to get her help elsewhere...she wouldn't do it. She was positive he would find her wherever she went.
And sad is this: Her son witnessed this his whole life. He would try to protect his mom when he was little. Well, he got married to a girl that also worked with us. Guess what happened? Yep. He's a beater, too. The girl divorced him not long after that. Not before they had a child, though so now she still has to be around the ex and hope that their child doesn't carry on the tradition.
As for the lady, she's still in the same place. She's still living, if you can call it living. At least for now.
Charlotte
The job of the police is to enforce the law, prevent a crime and assist those in cases of emergencies.
MEDC, so if a woman calls and says she doesn't feel safe because her husband is yelling, she's in the yard and wants to go back in to get her shoes... they'd probably tell her to forget the shoes and to get out of Dodge?
But if that same woman called and was IN the house... they would probably respond to
prevent a possible crime?
Oh yeah, and the police here showed up as fast as lightning last October when Gray stormed over to our house and scared the crap out of me the day after I exposed to OWH. I was at my g'ma's, he lured me over to the house, he waited in the parking lot, after I saw the damage I zipped back over to g'ma's and called the police post-haste!
I didn't know what he might do or if he might storm over to g'ma's so I called them. They kept an eye on g'ma's as well as my house in case he showed up again.
No complaints about the PD here at all!!
Charlotte
But I'd probably try and defend myself and run as soon as possible.
How would you defend yourself? That is a novel idea. Can you tell me more?
Okay... but I feel like the proverbial lamb being led to slaughter with breadcrumbs...
Hmmm let's see, I would probably pick up the nearest heavy object and sling it into the most sensitive area and run like heck.
Honestly, you are either making this up...or are just woefully uninformed.
Neither.
But deep down I suspect that you already know that.
Take a look at what you said.....
It is highly possible that someone said that to you, medc....and now you're saying it to me.....under different circumstances but similar feelings?
Take care
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
He'd get one swing.
LOL! That was almost the start of my answer but the one swing would have to be a sucker punch, otherwise the swing would just swish through the air.
Charlotte
I agree. Could also be that this "yelling" was sugarcoated by Cherished and it was actually a lot more than that.
Which is typical in cases of abuse.
Competent police officers are aware of that as are the dispatchers who take the calls and assess where to place it on the list for dispatching an officer.
Yep!
The job of the police is to enforce the law, prevent a crime and assist those in cases of emergencies.
MEDC, so if a woman calls and says she doesn't feel safe because her husband is yelling, she's in the yard and wants to go back in to get her shoes... they'd probably tell her to forget the shoes and to get out of Dodge?
But if that same woman called and was IN the house... they would probably respond to
prevent a possible crime?
Yes.
See, if the person can call the police, they can also call their Aunt Sally to come get her for a few hours. See, the woman that is not in the house with her husband may not FEEL safe...but she is not in any immediate danger as she is already out of the house. The police can't make him leave...so, what's the best option? She's already out...borrow a pair of Nike's from your neighbor and go grab a cup of coffee.
911 is for emergencies.
Okay... but I feel like the proverbial lamb being led to slaughter with breadcrumbs...
Hmmm let's see, I would probably pick up the nearest heavy object and sling it into the most sensitive area and run like heck.
I would never slaughter my good friend PrincessMeggy!
But I agree with you. I would pick up something and DEFEND myself. I believe that is the natural reaction of most women. In fact, I have had a man try to beat me up. It was not pretty.
Honestly, you are either making this up...or are just woefully uninformed.
Neither.
But deep down I suspect that you already know that.
Take a look at what you said.....
It is highly possible that someone said that to you, medc....and now you're saying it to me.....under different circumstances but similar feelings?
Take care
well, let's examine this. I was a cop...I dealt with this stuff all the time. Your experience is what?
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
He'd get one swing.
LOL! That was almost the start of my answer but the one swing would have to be a sucker punch, otherwise the swing would just swish through the air.
Charlotte
So say he has you cornered in the kitchen and is taking punches? What do you do?
well, let's examine this. I was a cop...I dealt with this stuff all the time. Your experience is what?
I recognize the tactic of diversion and will respect it, medc.
Take care
It is highly possible that someone said that to you, medc....and now you're saying it to me.....under different circumstances but similar feelings?
What does this mean exactly, LB?
I guess that I took for granted that I live in a place where abuse is taken seriously enough to not require people to either put themselves in harm's way trying to get their shoes, purse, medicine, whatever, or to stand out in the cold after leaving a situation before it escalates further.
She left because he was yelling...she needed her shoes in the snow....call the police.
I say call the police if she is LEAVING for good.
"Officer, I need to
leave my abusive Husband....and I would like to get my belongings out of the house, but I am scared that he will harm me"....might be legitimate.
"Officer, my husband is yelling at me....and I don't want to go back into the house until he stops....I ran out in the snow without my shoes on...will you please come over and get them for me?"
:RollieEyes:
If you don't have enough sense to leave him...I don't know how much hand holding you can expect from law enforcement officers.
People embroiled and ADDICTED to abusive situations want to call the police for every little thing...because it adds to the drama. They want the police to settle the situation down a tiny bit...so that they can get right back on that pony.
I do believe that SOME people are addicted to the drama that comes with an abusive situation. They are in victim mode so that they know nothing else.
Sometimes, you are no longer a victim...but a volunteer.
committed
Charlotte and PM, what would you do if your H was beating you up and yelling at you?
He'd get one swing.
LOL! That was almost the start of my answer but the one swing would have to be a sucker punch, otherwise the swing would just swish through the air.
Charlotte
So say he has you cornered in the kitchen and is taking punches? What do you do?
Protect my head as much as possible while pushing him to get past him or pushing him onto the floor so I can run to the phone for 911, or better-grab the cell and run outside to call 911.
It would be easy to take him out, though, if I really wanted. He has that "neck thing" and all I would have to do would be a good karate chop to that area and that would be it. Or, yeah, the family jewels thing.
I mean, if you are talking about a "knock-down, drag-out fight like "it's you or me, Kid" "Make my day!" then h*ll yeah I would defend myself! You can bet your cookies on that!
Only long enough to get away and call the cops, though and let them handle the rest.
Charlotte
What does this mean exactly, LB?
It was an invitation of a sort, ML....one that medc declined. Due to the subject matter that must be respected.
I guess that I took for granted that I live in a place where abuse is taken seriously enough to not require people to either put themselves in harm's way trying to get their shoes, purse, medicine, whatever, or to stand out in the cold after leaving a situation before it escalates further.
She left because he was yelling...she needed her shoes in the snow....call the police.
I say call the police if she is LEAVING for good.
"Officer, I need to
leave my abusive Husband....and I would like to get my belongings out of the house, but I am scared that he will harm me"....might be legitimate.
"Officer, my husband is yelling at me....and I don't want to go back into the house until he stops....I ran out in the snow without my shoes on...will you please come over and get them for me?"
:RollieEyes:
If you don't have enough sense to leave him...I don't know how much hand holding you can expect from law enforcement officers.
People embroiled and ADDICTED to abusive situations want to call the police for every little thing...because it adds to the drama. They want the police to settle the situation down a tiny bit...so that they can get right back on that pony.
I do believe that SOME people are addicted to the drama that comes with an abusive situation. They are in victim mode so that they know nothing else.
Sometimes, you are no longer a victim...but a volunteer.
committed
Too true. Great post, committed!
Charlotte
So say he has you cornered in the kitchen and is taking punches? What do you do?
I am ashamed to say that I've been there.
I was cornered and I came out fighting.
Swinging...and no slaps either. Fists to face...you'd have thought my name was Sugar Ray.
He even criticized my fighting. Seems like I fought like a Man...and didn't take it like a woman should.
Yep, that's what he said.
Shoulda known then that it was time to cut and run. Wasn't long after that he got his walking papers.
So, Mel....I was one of those crazy southern women that can swing with the best of them.
It is hard to imagine me ever having done that. Quite shocking really.
I know that people in abusive situations won't leave until they decide to leave. People that are addicted to the drama...just tick me off.
committed
What does this mean exactly, LB?
It was an invitation of a sort, ML....one that medc declined. Due to the subject matter that must be respected.
Huh? It sounded like drivel to me. An invite of a sort....I usually don't turn those down. Feel free to post away skippy.
C&L...You are right...want to leave the abuser...get her stuff...call the police. They still might not get involved and suggest that she get her stuff when he is not there...BUT, it certainly is more reflective of what they could help with.
Honestly, you are either making this up...or are just woefully uninformed.
Neither.
But deep down I suspect that you already know that.
Take a look at what you said.....
It is highly possible that someone said that to you, medc....and now you're saying it to me.....under different circumstances but similar feelings?
Take care
And no, I
know you are either misinformed or just making it up.
And I KNOW when someone is blowing smoke up my asss. You have that routine down pat.
Huh? It sounded like drivel to me. An invite of a sort....I usually don't turn those down.
I understand, medc.
Take care
LB, I understand you too. I'm sorry for your obvious issues with truth.
What does this mean exactly, LB?
It was an invitation of a sort, ML....one that medc declined. Due to the subject matter that must be respected.
I didn't see him decline any "invitation", LB. I still don't understand what you said. Can you not just say what you mean?
LB, I understand you too. I'm sorry for your obvious issues with truth.
I understand, medc.
Take care
Psychobabble Mel...it isn't hard to recognize on these boards. LB thinks there is always a deeper meaning to posts.
It would be easy to take him out, though, if I really wanted. He has that "neck thing" and all I would have to do would be a good karate chop to that area and that would be it. Or, yeah, the family jewels thing.
I mean, if you are talking about a "knock-down, drag-out fight like "it's you or me, Kid" "Make my day!" then h*ll yeah I would defend myself! You can bet your cookies on that!
Thanks Charlotte!! You have restored my faith in womynkind!!!
It would be easy to take him out, though, if I really wanted. He has that "neck thing" and all I would have to do would be a good karate chop to that area and that would be it. Or, yeah, the family jewels thing.
I mean, if you are talking about a "knock-down, drag-out fight like "it's you or me, Kid" "Make my day!" then h*ll yeah I would defend myself! You can bet your cookies on that!
Thanks Charlotte!! You have restored my faith in womynkind!!!
Just kiddin'!
You're welcome!!
Hey, us short chicks have an advantage. We are close enough for that "grab and twist" manuever. Brang 'em tuh thar knees!!
Or:
Knock 'em flat!
And then:
Aw...I sowwy...did that hurt 'ums wittle wee-wee?
(Awl innocent-lahk an' everythang...)
So, Mel....I was one of those crazy southern women that can swing with the best of them.
commie, I knew you wuz bad to the bone!! :twobyfour: