Now the question is whether you want to do that the rest of your life. There is a payoff in being a rescuer, an enabler, codependent, etc. But it's not healthy (obviously) for either side.

If she were really open to getting counseling and moving on with this, I would say stay, but right now she's not changing her partying behaviors and that needs to be a STRONG component of your Plan B requirements.

I wouldn't say that it's a LB to throw it out there about the Holidays. Even if you weren't doing a Plan A, she isn't ever around for the kids and this is not an odd question to ask.

Sorry it took so long to respond SWW.

Hope things are going well.

Just an outside observation, but, it sounds like your WW REALLY knows how to manipulate you. I hope I'm wrong, but she only attempts to put on a show the limited amount of time you're home and when she needs money. Doesn't sound healthy at all.

Not a 2X4, just an observation...I sincerely hope I'm wrong!

yes ab3 you are right. I am having a bad day today.

I didn't tell you all something that is really bothering me. When at home I am still in snoop mode. I found an opened package for a pre-paid wireless phone under our bed that wasn't there a couple of weeks ago.

I know if i confronted her about it she would just say it was from one of the kid's phones from a long time ago and she pushed it under the bed and she doesn't have one. I really don't know what to do. I did not say anything as I would rather she get comforatable that I am not snooping.

I also found underwear that I don't think would fit WW or DD but hey i might be going crazy. Sexy drawers, not new. DD said she played some song recently about "I kissed a girl, it felt real good etc." and it had something about some kind of flavored chapstick in the song. DD said WW said, "Hey, DD, look, flavored chapstick." DD said it was weird. DD said something about some new friend of WW and her friend group, some female 25 yr old Brazilian model who she says is gorgeous.

My headhunter has a lunch meeting with one of the co's that is looking at me next week. maybe something will come of that at least.

Have you completely dismissed the orders you were offered as not an option?

no I have until 01 OCT to accept or not.

SWW,
I'm not sure if you realize that song that she was referring to is a controversial song about girls being with girls.

It has always bothered me that having the need for sex that she has based on your description of her from her past and forward that she has not had sex with you for so long.

What I mean by that is that she is getting that need fulfilled "somewhere"! She's not taking a time out from that, not with her lifestyle.

For you, it's probably the best thing ever that she is not having SF with you so that you don't get an STD.

It sounds like she is "experimenting" even further. As long as she continues this partying lifestyle, she will remain a drug addict. her "drug" of choice is sex. She may have taken it to a new level now with a female.

So sorry SWW!

Stay the course for Plan B so you can be prepared for the D.

Thats kinda funny. My wife is deployed to Kuwait and occasionally when I send her a package, I'll put a CD in there with some home movies and new music. The last time I did that, I specifically left that song off of there, even though it had the sort of tempo and sound that I knew she would like. I left it off because the song is about messing around on her boyfriend with another girl. It may be a stretch, but that song is on the radio all the time, and every time I hear it, I think about her affair.

Just recently, we were talking on the phone and she told me how she had downloaded it because she had heard it and LOVED it! Cue the inward *groan* and my reply "Thats nice".

UnlyU,

I am familiar with the song and know what it's about. WW has had experiences with other women before and gets real hot about it often during SF. About 1.5 years ago I couldn't find her one evening so I went to the club and she was walking out to her car in the parking lot. Wet from the jacuzzi and in her bikini with another girl and she had this sort of sheepish look on her face. You are right, I am glad I am not having SF with her now, well that's not true, but prob safer. I am starting to get a little antsy about going a year now without though.

Going to call DR Harley for an appt next week. I can't go on without a real plan. It's overdue I know.

Had a long talk with WW saturday night, 1.5 hrs. She "graciously" agreed to wear her wedding rings while we sorted things out. I asked her if she wanted to date other people, she said it wasn't a priority now and she asked me the same thing. I said heck no! The proper response to that question is "Of course not! I am married and dating is out of the question!"

She started feeling me out about various friends of mine that are female, and said that, "people are talking about you and person." I asked how can that be since I have never been out with her. WW sounds jealous, very jealous.

I am confused. If she doesn't care about me why is she jealous? A part of me thinks she was so convinced that I was having an A that she picked the guy she knows I dislike most to have her A with and sub-consciously wanted me to find out.

I told her that her bahaviour presently and in the past was indicative of someone who had suffered some trauma in their childhood. I asked her if perhaps she was the victim of abuse. She was silent.

I told her she had many friends that are concerned about her, that love her. She said everyone has basically abandoned her, including her family.

andrew3

Just recently, we were talking on the phone and she told me how she had downloaded it because she had heard it and LOVED it! Cue the inward *groan* and my reply "Thats nice".

I know the feeling, makes you want to vomit doesn't it?

SWW,

What concerns me about her "jealousy" is that I think she just wants you and the lifestyle both. She would be jealous of losing what she has because she is a materialist, possessive type of person.

I don't think you can blame or even believe that her "thinking" you had an A led her to do what she has done. You know that she has been this way since LONG before you met her, during your dating and college years with her and now into your M.

This woman does exactly what she needs to in order to get or keep what she wants.

It saddens me that she has a blatant disregard for you in all of this. You are probably right about her childhood trauma triggering where she is in life today, but many people have survived those types of incidents and still had productive lives.

She is an adult and she makes her choice to do what she does.

Please let us know how your session goes with the Harley counseling. Perhaps you should make some notes of the highlights of the significant events and issues so you don't forget to tell something.

I certainly hope you are counseled into a strong Plan B because it's terrible to hear of what you and your children are being subjected to.

Stay strong in your faith also. Perhaps when all is said and done, that is where you will find a true compatible companion that will cherish what you have to offer and be a strong female influence for your children, before it's too late.

I observe these things:

You wife does not want you working near home since you will then observe just how much she spends your money partying and drinking and having sex.

You knew she was a partier, yet you married her anyway. Did you ever ask her to quit partying or take away the money for that activity?

She does not want her style crimped. If you want an attractive woman living OFF of you who gives NOTHING to you, she is the one.

You have been letting her do everything she wants on your dime. With no restrictions. Try laying down some rules:

1. No partying
2. No drinking
3. No hanging with friends who party
4. No sex outside the marriage
5. No flirting
6. No dressing slutty outside the home
7. No extra cell phones
8. Needs to get a full time job (too much time on her hands)

Hey, if you want a woman that merely looks good from the outside and gives NOTHING to you, there are a million of them. If you want a decent loving woman who does not party nor cheat, then divorce this woman. You can still meet a nice woman someday who is also cute.

This woman is not going to stop her behaviors but you can try and lay down the law and cut the money flow off. It is worth one try....

I don't think she's jealous. I think she's likely justifying to herself that if you're fooling around, it's more acceptable for her to do the same. She might even *want* you to fool around, so she could excuse her own behaviour.

Yeah I know. I did cut off the money, she denied the other cell phone after I told her about it this weekend, and I have told her how I feel about her friends. She responds with nothing bad is going on, we just hang out etc. Of course the kids are alone during these times.

A friend was in DC this weekend and he was asking me about the situation. He is an interrogator for a gov intel agency, so he asks innocuous questions for a long time while your guard is down then pounces. After about 30, "let me ask you something, and tell me this..." he just burst out laughing and said he was sorry but he couldn't help it, he apologized but laughed for 2-3 mins straight and then was like, "SWW what the eff are you doing??? For goodness sakes, this woman is horrible, I can't believe you are still hanging in there." D this b*tch, please, from your friends."

Just got off phone with sister who gave me a dose of the same thing. I did not sleep one wink last night, lay in bed for 7 hours.

I hope dr harley gives me something good. A good plan so i feel like i am at least doing something.

I also faced a couple of embarrasing realities this weekend:

1. I think when I (we BS's) get dumped like this it just blows our minds and, in a fit of jealous desperation will stop at nothing to get back the person that dumped us.

2. I must have a dependent relationship with her, in other words, I must feel like I am going to fizzle out and die if she is not in my life and loves me. That's unhealthy I know and irrational, but it's the way I feel somethimes.

Stella, u are right, she doesnt want me home because it might crimp her style.

Somehow you are willing to put up with her toxic and uncaring treatment of you for WHAT REASONS?

I would find out the reasons you are putting up with this.

I will list a few but they might not be the ones.

1. Afraid of dating to meet the right woman
2. You accidently had kids with her
3. You put up with it already, why change
4. You are not around much so it wont affect you as much
5. You have a need for an ATTRACTIVE woman other men want
6. Your ego depends on being with an ATTRACTIVE woman men want
7. You are wimpy and bend down to a woman, or womankind
8. You had no firm father figure growing up
9. yOu dont have very good self confidence or self love.
10 Maybe the sex was good and you are hoping it comes back.
11. _______________________________
12.____________________________
13.____________________________



I would do some self exploration and write out all your feelings about why you still want her around when she clearly does not want YOU around, only your money!

FWIW, I don't think that there's anything "unhealthy" or "irrational" about that feeling. I think it's the natural response to the situation that you've found yourself in. I went through it myself for weeks after D-Day.

Stellakat

Somehow you are willing to put up with her toxic and uncaring treatment of you for WHAT REASONS?

I would find out the reasons you are putting up with this.

A lot of truth to the list but not every one. I think the biggest ones are the presence of kids complicates things, her mis-treatment of me makes me want her back more (I know, counterintuitive, but like i want to fix this) and one of the biggest reasons is:

Her physical beauty combined with what I know she is like in bed makes me wild with jealousy that she has been doing those things with someone else! The images came back this weekend big time.

I just can't understand how she can be remorseful on DDAY, tell me how sorry she is etc. Cry. Tell me it will never happen again.

Then, I confront OM Charlie bc she won't do it, and now she is still in a rage but moving to indiferrence. I mean she was mad!

Told me saturday night that I had totally humiliated her, that it was already over, he had a fiance now, that she was trying to figure out the right way to do it, but that, "typically you had to take the bull by the horns and do it YOUR way without even asking me first!"

My husband, and many other men, know the concept of "Loving a Bit--".

Many men are attracted to a "user, uber bit--, and the psychobit--"

This kind of woman keeps a man running and chasing her. She is wild and untameable and does what she wants whenever, gets what she wants and spends all the man's money with no guilt, and cares nothing for what her man or other men think of her.

Some men are attracted to the chase with this type of woman and the ego gratification when they momentarily "catch" her.

This dance could be addicting since intermittant reinforcement itself is addicting. Intermittant reinforcement is a subtle thing women do (I dont do it) to keep men off balance. It is when a woman gives sex or ego gratification once in a while and then slamms the man most of the time or uses him. Those few good times keep the man keeping her around and paying for stuff.

This would be getting old, however. Since this kind of woman is not a very good wife, not supportive or loving. But some men dont need a loving supportive wife. They like the wild, crazy, untameable ones, the ones who lie, drink, and cheat on them once in a while. Because the uncertantity is addicting. Very stressful, but addicting to some men.

Stellakat

This kind of woman keeps a man running and chasing her. She is wild and untameable and does what she wants whenever, gets what she wants and spends all the man's money with no guilt, and cares nothing for what her man or other men think of her.

Some men are attracted to the chase with this type of woman and the ego gratification when they momentarily "catch" her.

O my gosh! This is her, and me to a tee! All she has to do is be nice to me, smile, rock my world with SF, every once in awhile to make me feel like a champion!

These times are pretty rare which makes me appreciate them even more I guess. WW told me she acted like a b*itch because that was the only way to get my attention or to get things done.

I don't think I want someone like this, but, I must admit, I broke up with her in college because she was too clingy, now I am desperate for a little clinginess...

I think am seriously messed up in the head. But seriously, you really hit the nail on the head with a lot of it.

Hey you are not alone, you and many men are in this same boat. Tom Likus (radio personality) talks about this all the time as does Howard Stern. My husband tells me all about how this happened to him in his dating years. They are called different names, these types of women:

1. Psychosluts
2. Pschycobit--s
3. The Bitc-
4. Psycho-hos
5. Many other names.

But these women are irrestable to some men (my husband included in his younger days chased after some of them) and easily manipulate thier men. All the games these women play get them what they want. I dont need to play games since I have enough self confidence as a woman plus more power and money than most men. (I am cute too)

But i see my girlfriends sometimes play these little games with thier men. Or talk about other women who play them all the time. After a while it would be like a habit for a woman to be these ways.

You should hear women talk:

"How can I get an expensive _______outa my husband?

"Well, you could refuse to have sex with him for a few weeks, then ask him for __________ again...."

"My husband is so stupid, I got a ten day vacation out of him by just ______________! Geeze!


Many women have no respect for thier men. They have a sense of entitilment a mile long and do not want to work for anything or contribute to the household. They use little games to keep thier men under control. I see it all the time in women I know. (who are not my friends)

http://www.mypsychobitch.com/guidelines.htm

Many women have no respect for thier men. They have a sense of entitilment a mile long and do not want to work for anything or contribute to the household. They use little games to keep thier men under control. I see it all the time in women I know. (who are not my friends)

Oh yeah, my WW defintitely used SF when we were dating to keep me in the fold and to get me to marry her. It was insane like several hours a day. Then when I wasn't doing what she wanted it was kind of doled out less, until I would put my foot down or ignore her and she would back off, or down.

She also used this tactic when I broke up with her to make me jealous, she started sleeping with my fraternity brother and showed up to a biker party in some kind of rubber pants with holes in them and electric tape on her nipples and flirted up a storm with her new boyfriend, till i said i wanted her back and she marched into the frat house right then and dumped in on the spot.

You have really opened my eyes here. I have been manipulated like a dog. And I just go back for more all the time.

Her mother told her, and my grandmother if you can believe it, that "men are meant to be ridden like a horse by their wives to give them the lifestyle they need."

It used to be that when I would "man up" she would always back down from the b*itchy attitude eventually. Well not this time, she's playing it for the long haul.

I seriously would not be surprised if she had this A to manipulate me in some way. That is what her best friend told me she was doing. But I think it went further than she thought it would and she developed real feelings for OM charlie.

Either way, she is now just torturing me in my Plan A days.