Hi lousygolfer, your analogy about old girlfriends sounds very true. I think you're exactly right about receding memories as time goes on. In your case, you say that your OW tried to destroy your family. I think if my OW had been trying to do that, I would feel differently -- once I realized that, I think it would be easier to let go of her. But my OW never wanted to be a home wrecker. She just enjoyed the friendship we had, never wanted anything serious to develop out of it, wanted it to continue if possible, but understands that it can't.......

Geez, I need to stop writing about her. I DO have fond memories of her, and thinking about this just revives them and makes me miss her......... Ok, gotta stop.

I asked Melody this, and maybe you can help as well. I DO think about her often and wish I wouldn't. Do you have any suggestions, other than simply riding it out, to deal with the thoughts of her that come to mind? One area that's probably the hardest for me is when I walk my dogs. I used to talk with her on the phone a lot when I took my dogs for a walk. Now, I think about her almost every time I walk them. It's really hard not to. I don't have the urge to call her, but I do think about her. And I know keeping thoughts of her alive is making it harder for me to re-connect with my wife. I wish I could get my wife to come with me, but she's usually too busy and she doesn't enjoy walks as much as I do.

you know what brwmb I am curious to see what people answer you on the "stop thinking about her" idea. Because that is my problem as well. I journal it trying to get it out of my head and that seems to work about 50% of the time. But like you at those still times in life I find myself thinking about her and it sucks.

brwmb, I didnt get any further than this because your incorrect premise precludes a correct conclusion. See, the problem with your BROTHER is that he has not really accepted that he is an alcoholic. He is not honest with himself, otherwise he wouldn't be dreaming about changing himself from an alcoholic to a social drinker. He would ACCEPT that is an impossible dream. That is like the butterfly "wishing" he could be a caterpillar again. So, be assured the story of your brother is not the story of someone who is very far into recovery, if at all.

When I speak of the attitude of a recovering alcoholic, I speak primarily of those in RECOVERY. Not those who are NOT.

I will try and reread the rest of this later, but it would be helpful if you could cut down on the LENGTH of your posts. Most people will not take the time to read these too long posts, nor should they be expected to. You will get much more asistance if you scale them back to about a THIRD. Thanks

I agree you should NOT be writing about her. As with any kind of withdrawal, the way to recovery is to focus on RECOVERY and to RE-TRAIN your mind to change the subject when it comes up. The WORST thing you can do is talk about it.

For example, when I was younger I had a bad habit of terrorizing myself with very negative thoughts. [mental masturbation] I was so obsessed with WHAT IF that I missed WHAT IS. I retrained my thinking to BANISH those thoughts by wearing a rubber band on my wrist and popping it whenever my mind wandered in that direction.

It will also be key for your wife to be a safe place to land as you withdraw. That means that she needs to effectively learn to meet your needs along with avoiding lovebusters.

Ok, I will try to cut back. You made a lot of good points, and I wanted to thank you for all of them.

Maybe if your posts weren't so full of helpful information, ....... just kidding keep it coming!

Did you tell your wife this? I would find a solution to situations like this and either CHANGE THEM or stop them. For example, ask your wife to go with you. If she won't then stop walking the dogs.

Is she commited to building a romantic relationship with you? Because this would be a good opportunity for her.

Here is what Dr Harley says it will take:


Requirements for Recovery

You can't stop walking the dogs. That is not an answer.

Somethings in life you have to do, so you just have to work with them. You can't just avoid every trigger in life, that is impractical.

I will say your idea of retraining your brain to think differently is good though. Any links etc... on the subject?

He needs to look for CREATIVE SOLUTIONS to avoid triggers such as this. Walking dogs is not something anyone has to do. Trying to "work with" triggers will slow down his recovery immensely. He has to surrender and admit defeat. The way to do that is to AVOID, not to play a test of wills in a contest he has already lost.



Just my common sense. It was amazingly easy actually. Every time a BANNED thought hits your mind, TRAIN your mind to REJECT it and shift to something more productive. This got me out of the habit of obsessive thinking that often comes with addictions.

I think obsessively (I did even before the affair) and it's gotten worse. Any suggestions or links on how to train your mind to reject these?

Sorry to t/j!

Not to be nit picky but this suggestion is overly simplistic.

What did you do (specifically) to "TRAIN" your brain. The devil is in the details and you are glossing over that important factor. Was is just the rubber band that did the trick or did you do other stuff?

Can give and example of what a bad thought was and then what you thought of.

Espirit, I used a rubber band on my wrist and just became AWARE of my negative thoughts.

But you have to establish the DETAILS all on your own because you define what is positive and what is negative in your life. It really is very simple. You don't need a step by step manual along with instructional videos to do it, just common sense.

For example, when a targeted negative thought comes in your head, snap the rubber band on your wrist and take charge of your thoughts. Have a subject at the ready that is PRODUCTIVE and POSITIVE - FOR YOU - and switch to that subject. After awhile, you will have trained your mind to not go where you don't want it to wander.

Hi Melody, this issue of controlling your thoughts is interesting. I took my dogs for a walk this morning and ....

wait, first I want to address your view that I don't HAVE to walk the dogs. Technically, you're right; I could just ignore their need for exercise. I don't know if you have dogs, and if if not, you might not be able to sympathize with me, but as a dog lover, ignoring my dogs would depress me more than just about anything. I believe strongly in the adage "a dog is a man's best friend." To me, they're the epitome of friendship. Dogs are more faithful than some of us on this forum, including me. They're an inspiration to me at times. Ignoring them is just not an option for me. I have to take care of them, or rather, I have a need to take care of them, and walking them is part of it. My wife is a cat person and doesn't particularly enjoy walking the dogs. It's one of the differences between us that we accept.

.... so, anyways, I was walking the dogs, and sure enough, I started thinking about the OW. Almost as soon as I did, I tried to take your advice and turn my thoughts to something else. But the more I tried to think about something else, the more I realized in the back of my mind that I was doing it to avoid thinking about her, and the harder it became. An analogy with sleep came to mind. Occasionally, if I wake up in the middle of the night, I'll stare at the clock and think to myself "I have to get back to sleep." The more I try to fall back to sleep, the harder it becomes. I've had cases where I've been up for an hour or two trying to get back to sleep. One thing I've learned that helps is to reason with myself. Accept the fact that I want to get back to sleep, realize that eventually I WILL get back to sleep, and stop worrying about the fact that I'm not sleeping at the moment. If I do that, I tend to relax, and I often fall back to sleep much easier. I'm wondering if when I think about the OW, I should just chill out and not try so hard to NOT think about her. Just let the thought come and go and don't stress about it.

This might be one of those things where what works for you doesn't always work for everyone. Maybe your technique is the quickest way to recovery, but maybe it just doesn't work for everyone. Maybe you're mentally tougher than I am and can control your thoughts better than I can. I don't really know, but it IS an interesting psychological problem.

Is this about the right length of post? Or still a little too long. And one other question, what does t/j mean? I've seen that a couple of times. Thanks for your help.

"My wife seems more committed to working on re-building our marriage than I do,"

Your wife IS more committed to working on re-building your marriage than you are.

"and our counselor has described my position as being on the fence;"

On-The-Fence: wishy-washy, weak, indecisive, lethargic, lacking in integrity, sitting back and taking, cake-eating, not taking personal responsibility...

"I don't want to stay,"

Because that would require more work and effort on your part.

"but I don't want to leave."

Because your wife, whether or not you want to admit it and give her any credit, IS meeting certain needs of yours that the OW is not.

"I don't want to stay because the marriage feels like nothing to me,"

The marriage feels like nothing to you partly because you aren't investing into it, partly because in order to justify the adultery you have to believe that the marriage is nothing.
To admit that YOUR marriage feels like nothing to you is to admit your own apathy and lack of effort and attention given to your marriage. If your marriage feels like nothing to you, who do you imagine is to blame for that? Your wife alone? Fate?
Nope - it is YOUR responsibility to build and protect your marriage, to ensure that it is fulfilling and strong.

"but I don't want to leave because we have kids."

You say you don't want to leave because of the kids...
Presumably because you FEEL love towards your kids, right?

Love is more than a feeling - it's a verb.

Do you love your kids just a little bit or a lot?

Do you love them enough to protect their family from being destroyed by adultery?
Do you love them enough to put their well-being above the thrill you get from the adultery?
Do you loev them more than you desire the OW?
Do you love them enough to not merely stay (and then feel sorry for yourself because you are supposedly being deprived?) but to actually do whatever it takes to model for them what a strong, healthy, SATISFYING marriage looks like?

Or is your reason for wanting to stay because of the kids a purely selfish reason? Like you would miss the kids, and you think you're entitled to live with your kids and share everyday and special occasions with them... PLUS have fun on the side with the OW? How much of your staying because of the kids for your benefit, not theirs? ENDING THE ADULTERY and staying for the kids would be truly 'for the kids'.

To continue the adultery while staying 'for the kids' (or worse allowing the adultery to continue long enough that it destroys your marriage and family and THEN expecting the kids to still want to be around you and pretend you didn't hurt them), is not really 'for the kids'...

Staying while staying in contact with the OW is selfish cake-eating;
staying on contact with the OW until your marriage/family is destroyed isn't 'for the kids' either.

The ONLY way you can honestly claim that you are doing something 'for the kids' is to completely end all contact with the OW, then commit to rebuilding and protecting your marriage.

Do you see why I said you shouldn't be walking the dogs?

I see nothing in this long missive about creative ways to AVOID WALKING THE DOGS. But I see lots of bullcrap about why you have to continue doing something YOU KNOW triggers you.

And yes, I do have dogs. No one is holding a gun to my head making me walk them.

I am not going to do your thinking for you, brwmd, but I am not convinced of your willingness to recover when you look for EXCUSES to continue behavior that you know triggers you INSTEAD OF SOLUTIONS.

NO ONE HAS TO WALK DOGS IN AMERICA. Come back with some creative ways to AVOID it.

If you are not going to lift a finger to faciliatate your own recovery, then neither am I. I would rather paint my toenails.

"I understand your analogy with alcoholism, but I've seen it work both ways. Both my best friend from grade school and my brother are recovering alcoholics. My best friend wants nothing to do with alchohol and has bad memories of it that keep him away. My brother, on the other hand, fights his temptation daily. He is not sickened by the thought of alcohol. He wishes he could return to drinking at a moderate level."

Perhaps one of them hit bottom before quitting but the other didn't?

Or maybe one of them has set up boundaries to avoid being in situations, or with certain people, thereby not placing themselves in the path of temptation as much as the other person?

Or maybe one just has a more mature, responsible outlook and realizes the danger and yuckiness while the other still underestimates the negatives, overestimates the pleasure, and feels sorry for himself that he is 'deprived'?

I didn't think I'd ever get over my HS boyfriend... but I did.
He had his good points and his bad.
Of course I am still aware of some of his positive traits but I am in no way attracted to, or 'in love with' him anymore LOL.

My WXH destroyed our marriage and family for an OW.
I still think about him sometimes, both his negative and positive qualities. I have a much more objective persepctive of him now that I am not so 'in love' with him anymore.
And of course I was CERTAIN I would never stop feeling 'in love' with him too... but I really don't think of him that way anymore and have trouble even imagining getting back together with him now (and we were married 25 years!).

You can get over the OW.
You also can fall back in love with your wife again.

Your current feelings, no matter how strong they feel to you at the time, aren't really a valid indicator of what the future holds.

It is your choices and actions that are the main factor - not your feelings du jour (or even your feleings tomorrow or next week...month...)

Adultery gives you a chemical high that you get addicted to.
You will go through withdrawals - that is normal.
The withdrawal symptoms are in no way evidence that the thing (or person) who gave you the high was therefore a positive that should remain in your life!

And beware that while resuming contact with the OW will temporarily give you a quick fix and make you FEEL good, it will not make you a healthier, happier person in the long run.

In addition to snapping that rubber band on your wrist remind yourself that the OW is most definitely not perfect. And don't forget to think, say, do positive things regarding your wife. Part of why we 'fall in love' with somebody is because we like the things they say to and do for us... but it's just as true that we also fall in love with them BECAUSE of what we say to and do FOR them. Focus on your wife's positive qualities, compliment her, thank her, hug her, flirt with her, do things for and with her... and you WILL fall back in love with her and WILL start to wonder what you ever saw in that OW.

You used to love your wife so much that you believed that you never had, and never would, loev another woman as much, right?
But then you started saying/doing/sharing thigns with the OW that you had stopped saying/doing/sharing with your wife, right?
SO THEN you 'fell in love' with the OW and believed that you 'loved' the OW more than you ever loved your wife, and presumed that you would always love the OW that much, and never woudl love anyone else but the OW (not even your wife) as much as you love the OW, right?

But you already know that no matter how sure you feel about that, based on your current feeling about whom you are in love with, that COULD change, right? Because it DID change before, when you fell out of love with your wife and fell in love with the OW.

Love the feeling is affected by love the verb, not just the other way around.

Every morning when you get up, spend some quality time with your wife TALKING to her and listening to her. Get up earlier than your normal time and cook/eat breakfast together or go out to eat. And/or take a morning walk together. It doesn't matter what you talk about - the weather, a joke you heard, something you saw on tv or heard on the news... whatever - it does not have to be relationship stuff.

Make sure that your wife is the person that you talk to and listen to the most during a typical day. As much as is possible/practical discuss everything with your wife first before anyone else, even silly and mundane stuff.

Plan to spend time alone with your wife 15 hours per week, dates, walks, snuggling, drive in the country... just the two of you.

Plan to do some things that are exciting or maybe even a little scary (IF it's something she would not object to or feel offended or horrified by); maybe ride a roller coaster, watch a suspenseful movie, or ride in a hot air balloon, TOGETHER.

Good job on sending the NC letter, brw. Stick to it!

I understand all those thoughts that come at you about the OW...especially when you're doing something specific that triggers the habit of thinking of her (walking the dogs, etc.).
I had issues with that for a little while after NC was established, too. But, like Melody suggested, it really is as simple as training your brain to stop those thoughts. It's not exactly easy at first, because part of you wants to think about them. I think you'll be surprised to find how quickly it gets easier, tho.

As much as possible, when I had thoughts about OM I would pick up the phone and call my H. Or, if he wasn't available, I'd call my mom or sister. (Never anyone who an enabler of the A. I immediately cut ties with all those people anyway.) I used to be a lunch-time power walker....all that time alone left lots of time to think of the OM. So, I got a mini-cassette player and some self-help tapes to keep my mind occupied while I walked. Or I’d get someone to go with me. If I’d had a cell phone back then (1994), I would’ve called H while I walked.

My H has said he did similar things during his withdrawal from OW. He replaced his habits with new ones that included me...or positive influences. We didn’t have the benefit of MB during our dark days, but we both realized we needed to constantly reach out to each other to reconnect, especially when we were having trouble shaking those old thoughts and images. I don’t remember that either of us ever specifically said we were trying to not think of the OP, tho.

You can do this brw. I promise. It gets easier and easier. Eventually I bet you’ll be like me, my H, Melodylane’s H...almost every exWS I know...you’ll get to the place where you don’t think of the OW with love or affection. You’ll likely feel ashamed and grossed out. I know I do.

Good luck.

Lori

"so, anyways, I was walking the dogs, and sure enough, I started thinking about the OW."

Well the logical thing to do is what Melody suggests:

Don't walk the dogs.

That does NOT mean that therefore the dogs don't get their walk... that just means that you aren't the one taking them for their walk. Have somebody else take them for their walk (my daughter has a teen friend who does this for a very small fee - you could easily find somebody to pay to do this where you live).

Or you could try something to interfere with the dog-walking being something that keeps you thinking about and bonded to the OW:

Have somebody walk the dogs with you (preferably your wife) and talk to them while walking. (OR call your wife on your cellphone and talk to her while you're walkig the dogs.)

Walk the dogs someplace different than the place you normally walk them - someplace you have not walked the dogs while dwelling on the OW, where you're not used to the scenery/path so that will get more of your attention.

Listen to an audio book through a Walkman or I-Pod while walking the dogs.

Make mental lists while walking the dogs of things you need to do, your wife's positive traits, what you need to get at the grocery (or hardware) store, what you plan to get the kids for Christmas, what you have to do at work tomorrow, how many ties you have and what they look like... whatever.

Think about your kids instead.
Hey if I was so addicted to something or somebody that it made it difficult to keep my thoughts on my children instead it would REALLY motivate me to dump that addiction ASAP! Get angry at the addiction/OW for usurping so much of your thoughts away from those in your life who really matter.

Oh and every time you find yourself thinking about the OW at least think something negative about her.
Snap that rubber band on your wrist as you remind yourself that she was a threat to your family, somebody that it is YOUR JOB to protect your family from. Tell yourself, "NO - I do NOT 'love' the OW - I love my kids!"

BRW:

Your post about the dogs?

1. Have your wife walk with you. Take the kids as well. So what if it more effort. Your putting more effort into walking the dogs then recovering your marriage is sounds like.

2. When you think about OW while walking, you can look at your W and ask her about her day. Now your not thinking about OW.

3. Changing behaviors leads to changed outcomes. Spending more time with your W results in better outcomes.

You can do this.

It takes time.

LG

What if I said brushing my teeth reminds of the OW? Would you tell me to stop brushing my teeth? Or have someone else brush them for me? I think you guys are being a little dogmatic. Or maybe DOGmatic, I should say!