rprynne, I don't think what you are doing to your wife is CARING. I believe it is ENABLING, so I wouldn't use the word CARE. That is not accurate. You have trained MT to be a bad person who uses and abuses others. When you care for someone, you help them be the BEST they can be, not the WORST they can be.

Rprynne, I don't think I fully understand what you are trying to accomplish. Do you WANT to NOT care what happens to your WW? Because I don't think you ever don't care - regardless of how things turn out in the end. I'm in Plan D (well, Plan FU actually describes it better) but I couldn't honestly say I don't care what happens to WstbxH (unless I personally inflict it which is more fantasy than reality anyway). He was horrible in our M. He was horrible in the separation. He's horrible now. But I did devote 17 years of my life to him and he helped raise my DS so to say I didn't care what happens to him is either a lie or a dillusion.

I don't think it's about caring or not caring. The decision to attempt R or not is far more complex than that. It is about what kind of life you can expect for yourself and your children. It is about what you are willing to accept or not. You will never forget what happened and it can't be changed no matter what choices you make from here on out. It's in the past. What is it you want for the future and how do you get there? This is what you need to ask yourself. And be honest - the best answer for you isn't always the one you think you want.

I know from your other postings that at one time you were an SEC caliber lineman ... so I made the assumption that your W was likely originally attracted to a big, strong manly type of guy. Somewhere between then and now, you have become very indecisive and unwilling to act on what you KNOW you need to do.

You're obviously an intelligent guy, so you have to see the futility in doing the same things over and over, with no meaningful improvement.

So, you're right ... I don't know your W, but the fact that you remain in limbo 3 years out, taken in context with the above is a pretty good clue to my original assumption and seems to fit the premise of the radio host's observations.


Maybe I misunderstood your post, or you have me confused with someone else ... I'm still M'd and well into R with FogFree. I have never indicated that I didn't care what happened to her, as she has NEVER NOT (how about those double negatives) been a part of my life since we were M'd. She made a REALLY bad choice, but upon discovery, she has followed that one up with a lot of very GOOD choices.

However, I did give her an ultimatum immediately upon discovery (fortunately she made the right choice for me), and if she would have made the wrong choice or even asked for time to clear her head, then she knows that I was serious about having her leave our marital home RIGHT THEN. It would have hurt like he11, but I simply have too much pride to knowingly SHARE my W with another man.

I could understand a major life screw-up, as I've made a few myself over the years, but I can't understand allowing the one I love the most to continue to KNOWINGLY inflict pain and disrespect on me. THAT is the major difference as I see it.

rprynne,

Sometimes I get the feeling that you and I just don't communicate that well. It just seems like I type one thing, but you read another and/or vice versa, which isn't hard to do in an impersonal type of communication like an internet message board.

I did take your post as adversarial and replied based on that belief. If that was not your intent, then I apologize for my tone, but I still believe in the overall content of what I posted.

You simply have to do something to get yourself out of this limbo, and I think I read in an earlier post where you intend to give your W an ultimatum about her employment this weekend when she comes home. I hope you find the courage to state that boundary and then enforce it, if necessary.

Somewhere inside of you still beats the heart of a WILDCAT ... I hope you reconnect with it.

Okay. It is not my intent to enable, but I will try to consider that some more.


Its not so much what I am trying to accomplish. When I first posted the question what I was trying to convey was that I am quite certain that nothing is going to get better until I just decide to leave my FWW and file for divorce. I can not completely describe it, but I do not fear her reaction to this, nor am I worried about my future. What tends to hold me back is that I am certain that my FWW will agree to the divorce and then go on with things and I think she will ultimately be unhappy. And when I consider that, I think that she is making a big, big mistake. Right or wrong, I end up feeling responsible to try and stop her from making that mistake. So I end up compromising. So I was asking other people how they deal with that.

I imagine that every BH that has to give their WW an ultimatum feels that if she were to decide to leave, is making a big mistake. I feel the same way. If this were just a friend or something, I would say I think that's a mistake, and then let it go. But, since its my wife, who I've been with for 20 years, I feel compelled to keep trying so as to keep her from making that mistake.


Fair enough. All I can say about the 3 years is that there were other factors that I felt warranted the time.


This is what I am asking about. When you gave her the ultimatum, I assume you considered the fact that she might leave. If she had, wouldn't it have driven you crazy that she was making such a big mistake. Wouldn't you have felt an urge to keep her from doing that?

I'm not saying this applies to you, but some seem to be "energized" by the fact that the WS is making a big mistake. I find it tragic and seem to want to try and correct it.


I agree. It is very hard to pick up tone on a message board.


I understand and I appreciate that. I genuinely post here mostly to get others opinions and share my own, I apologize if I was (or came across as) overly critical.


I'm going to enforce it. I told her I was filing for D. Its just going to be weird when she is here. We have talked several times since I told her this and she doesn't bring it up. Thanks for the support and encouragement.

Honestly, NO I wouldn't have. I have the advantage or disadvantage, however you choose to view it, of already surviving a divorce. I know that once I cross that line that I have the ability to shut off those feelings.

You see, SHE would have been the one to make that choice, and as such, I can walk away without those feelings you describe.

Now I'm not completely hard hearted ... I know it would have hurt like he11 the first time I saw her with someone else, etc., but urges to keep her from feeling the consequences of her damn poor choices ... NO WAY!!!

I didn't realize that you'd already broken the news to her ... Good for YOU!!!

Seems that either she's the one in denial now ... OR ... she is trying to gauge whether you will follow through.

Just STAND TALL and let her know that you still LOVE her, but you just can't stand her INDIFFERENCE any longer.

But this is where your thinking seems to be a bit faulty, at least to me.

Your wife needs to do just this. She needs to feel the unhappiness of her choices. She needs to realize that she is ultimately in control of her own happiness, not you.

There is a path that one must walk to get to the place of this realization.

You are not the gatekeeper to her happiness, she is. And you both need to realize this, and sooner or later you both will.

There are also different avenues to the gate.

We used to have a saying something like "get out of God's way". It holds a lot of truth.

The most important thing for you to decide, Rprynne, is what is it you are willing to settle for. What are your values, as they pertain to your marriage and ultimately your life.

You might call it protecting her from her own deestruction, or that you fear her unhappiness and there is truth to this, but it is not really helpful to her. I know that I would have a hard time knowing that someone I loved was unhappy, but I have faith and belief in each and every human being that they have the same ability I have in finding happiness. Don't sell her short. She is not that incompetent.

I just saw this. Prepare yourself for a bumpy ride, and listen to MyRev.

(((((Rprynne)))))

Mr. W and I will keep you in our prayers...

((((((((((Rprynne))))))))))

We are here if you need us...

Mrs. W

Okay. Thanks for the insight. I envy you on this.


I think it is a little of both.


I understand.

Its sort of comical, but I knew it was going to get to this point after the first meeting with the MC. He's a good MC, and he gets most of the stuff about A's and EN's etc. But he gave an example of a couple he counseled that had decided to live apart for the sake of their careers, but with good communication, making up for the time apart in other ways, etc., that it worked for them. Bear in mind, both the husband and the wife made about around twenty million in salary each year and had their own private jet, so it made things a tad easier to cope with the time apart. Anyway, all my FWW seemed to hear was here's a happily married couple who don't work in the same place.


It probably is.

Thanks for the hugs Weaves and Mrs. W. Not going to be much going on anyway, since she got stuck in the hurricane.

Hey rprynne. I just caught up with this thread. I'm sorry to hear that your long fought battle has come to this.

But I think you are making the right decision.

I wish you the best, and thank you for all your help and comments on my own situation.

Thanks for the support Tyk.

My (F)WW made it back from the damage of Hurricane Ike. She has been back for a few days and we went out last night. She went to the MC by herself yesterday. (I've told her I don't really see much point in me going anymore). She still hadn't mentioned anything about what I told her last week. So eventually she brings up some R talk over dinner.

I reiterated that I was still moving forward with getting a divorce and added I'm not ####### around on this. She asked if I would go with her to talk to the MC about this. Told her no. She asked if I would go talk to the MC by myself about this. Told her no.

She said she wanted to talk more about it tonight.

Anyway, I imagine there is a 50/50 chance she is going to ask if I would be willing to quit my job and move to where she is. I don't really think I can do that.

I was just curious to hear what other people would do in that situation.

rprynne,

FogFree and I are currently re-visiting some of our work related issues after a recent business trip of hers ... actually she's in the air flying home as I type ... and my best guess is that our issues relative to her travel will not ease until she agrees to find another job that doesn't require this level of overnight travel ... preferably NONE AT ALL. Although, right now, this is very much a "moving target" and I am unsure of its resolution.

Therefore, from my perspective, I doubt you will find any peace until she commits to finding other employment or you seperate yourself from the source of your anxiety through divorce.

rprynne,

Wait a minute...hold the phone...Is MT still traveling to where OM lives??? Please tell me nooooooooooo rprynne...If I recall correctly OM is in Texas, yes? Personally I would have a HUGE problem with that rprynne...Does she have family in Texas that can verify her whereabouts to you at ALL times? What extraordinary precautions, if any, is she taking? From here I am seeing the same situation as before...MT working in Texas...OM in Texas...Rprynne at home...

Mrs. W

MyRev - Thanks for the input.

My (F)WW's job doesn't involve any travel, its just the job location is in another state. If I moved to where she is working, it would be allow the most time together since prior to years before d-day. Her job before this one "required" a lot of travel.

Not sure if it's clear, but my (F)WW's A started when she was doing her old job. In that job she traveled a lot. OM did not work with her, but his company was doing work with my (F)WW's company and that's how they met. His company was in Houston. She broke it off with him, then a month later quit her job. She was not working for 3 months. During that time, she resumed things with OM. Then she took a job with a company in Houston. OM does not work for this company, but lives in Houston. Its not entirely clear whether she took the job because OM was there or not. She swears its not the case, I remain skeptical.

For a considerable amount of time, she has not asked for me to quit my job and move to Houston. She claims its because she knows I like my job and wouldn't want me to do that. Personally, I believe it has more to do with the fact that when she went there she told everybody she works with that she is divorced and introduced OM to some of her co-workers as her boyfriend. So, me moving there would make it hard to get the story straight. As I would insist on being well known by her co-workers.

So, now that I am making it clear to her that its unacceptable to me for us to have jobs so far apart, I suspect she will attempt to overcome that problem and ask me to move to Houston. Frankly, I'm not to keen on the idea, because pardon my french, but it feels like I'd be "putting my #### on the anvil" again, so to speak.

But I'm just wondering if some of the folks here would view it a different way. i.e. say "well you should give it a shot."

I hope you and FogFree work it out. All I can say is that job's aren't worth sacrificing a M over. Wish I could convince a few people of that

Mrs. W - Nope you have it right.

She "quit" her job in January. Then after a few months she later told me that she really didn't quit, that she took a leave of absence. In May, she started going back to work 3-4 days a week flying back and forth.

I did not like the idea, but I figured I would see if the MC, which we continued doing, and us trying to POJA a solution to the problem would work.

I can't really convey it, but contact is not really a concern. Since she went back, the difference has been night and day. I have her cell phone, e-mail access, etc. She answers each call, etc. She really has been trying to work on things.

But this job is a fundamental problem. I gave her some time to come to the table about it, but it just became apparent that she wasn't ever going to get moving on that.

Mrs W. - Also, I keep trying to tell people that the problem is not just the A. Nobody here ever buys this, and sometimes I think that makes it difficult when people give advice. We had the exact same problem with her last job.

rprynne,

I was aware of your situation ... my comments were to try to make the connection that both of our W's are often away from us, and with their respective histories, this much time apart makes R much more difficult.

We both have our own different specific issues, but our commonality comes from the fact that we need our W's HOME, with US, more often.

With our circumstances as BH/WW, I wouldn't consider it fair to give up my job to accomodate my W's career, and I don't think you should either. IMHO, its up to our W's to make us feel secure in our M's ... and repeating behaviors that contributed to their A's (i.e. seperate travel or living arrangements) doesn't fit into that picture for me.

Agreed. I'll be interested to hear how you and FogFree resolve this.

No, I can see this...MT treats work like an OM really...At the weekend conference, Dr. Harley is adamant that your career is to serve your marriage and family and NOT the other way around...He has even advised doctors to change careers because of this...To me this must be your hill to die on rprynne...Careers are a POJA issue and I am wondering if MT has any intention of ever following the POJA...If not, I do not see your marriage surviving...

Mrs. W