MIMI,
The EA is over. He has not had any contact either visual, conversationally or otherwise since February of 2008. I have the problems now because of the fact that they still work for the same company, however in opposite buildings. She is slated to be moved into his building possibly in October (next month). For this, I'm freaked out! He has repeatedly assured me that it will not involve him in any way. I am wise to understand the addiction part but he bristles at the thought. So, I'm ok with providing a safe and happy environment for him to retreat to. But, I cannot be a doormat. I have no way of knowing for sure that he really does not see or interact with her at work. All I can do is watch and wait.

When he was with her he was nasty to me. He has not been that way consistently, but there have been times. But, I'll be honest and tell you that I have not done a great job at being 'happy'. I'm sad, I'm hurt, I'm miserable. I've left my name/number at a local mental health clinic to join a women's group. They will be teaching skills for turning negatives into positives.

Right now I'm paralyzed by my own fears. Fear of being made a fool of, fear of him lying to me, fear of failure...the list goes on! All I have right now is me. I have to be happy and if he's with the dumpy one I cannot be. So, as you have previously coached Mogi, I'll work on me.

Ok, I apologize if I'm seemingly dumb today but I feel like I've just gotten a big smack on the head and I finally have woken up. But, a few points are sketchy for me.

Today I am watching Oprah with Gary Neuman. He is bringing up alot of very good points. It's annoying to me that the woman seems to bare the responsibility for building up the man so he wants to be with her. So caveman.

But, here's the question. Am I allowed to speak with H about seeing the show? Or, do I have to simply cringe about some of the things that have rung true to me and keep my mouth shut while smiling? It's so hard to do.

And, one more thing. I spoke to someone today and asked this question. I am praying for God to help me with my situation to see some signs that I'm in it for keeps and it's the right thing. But, I keep finding these little inconsistencies. Am I projecting my doubt which may essentially push H away or is God sending me these little inconsistencies so that I wake up. How am I supposed to be able to tell the difference. This is, assuming you believe God does send us little signs to get us through certain situations.

I'm weird this way. Very often I look at the clock and it's my anniversary. I see this as a sign that I'm in the right place. Others dismiss stuff like that as ridiculous...I do not. So, how do I interpret this?

No, I have not read Surviving An Affair. I just finished reading HNHN and am also reading a book on forgiveness. Today I ordered Gary Neuman's book on Emotional Infidelity and was able to download his book from Oprah for free. So, I have tons of reading to do!!!

Here's another question --
DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO INSIST THAT H GET A NEW JOB? I am a stay at home mom, so I'm not sure how this works. Can I insist/

I RECOMMEND for you to read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR because your husband had an affair. You specifically need to read that GUIDEBOOK for ADEQUATE RECOVERY, using the MBer's approach.

You are asking questions that would be fully explained by reading SURVIVING AN AFFAIR.

I used to read it DAILY.

So, how can you BE SURE there's NO CONTACT. If it was my husband, I know he would be tempted at least to email and I would have to BE SURE..well, as sure as I could be....

What about the NC LETTER?


FOR GOOD REASON!!


BULL!! IF you UNDERSTAND the ADDICTION PART...he CRAVES being near her..it's AN ADDICTION!!


I don't see how you can possibly be happy with your husband working at the same company....


BUT, I think the ANSWER for MOGI was gaining her SELF-RESPECT. She stopped ACCEPTING her husband's BULL CRAP. That will increase your ATTRACTIVENESS to HIM.

foiri,

Mimi is right.....you have to stop accepting the minimium from your WS. Even though his was an EA it is still an affair.....and she is also right about gaining SELF-RESPECT. It was the single greatest achievement I did in all of this.

My own self-respect was in the gutter prior to D-day and went even lower following Dday. NOW I know I am worth a whole lot more than what I got handed. I now know that I will survive with or with-out WS. BUT truth-be-known, I'd rather do it with him. That doesn't mean I will sacrifice myself or my boundaries to do it though......

And you MUST read SAA....it is critical to your M's survival. Especially if you are seeking answers on here.....I would have been lost without it.....well, actually I may not have ever found this place since it was because of the book I came to this website.....

not2fun

Here is the SELF-RESPECT issue. You have the RIGHT to do whatever YOU want to do that YOU believe is NECESSARY to save your marriage. If YOU want to WORK ON SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE, he will HAVE to get a NEW JOB!! SO TELL HIM THIS!! Telling him what YOU want is not INSISTING. He has a CHOICE to do it or not.

Ok, I will buy the book.

As for insisting he get a new job, I was just afraid this would be considered LB. I can do this, I know I can.

Hi Fiori

I have an answer to the orginal question of this thread : "Can the BS get 'closure' with a visit to OW ?".

After about 2 years of up-and-down recovery I found a deep need to face down OM.

He was a karate champion and this really grated me. I knew I was his better in every possible way but this. Insecure man that I am.

So I laid in wait outside the karate HQ. And I beat seven colours of sh*t out of him with a cable hose and every limb.

His old flesh yielded under my blows , but in truth I would have overwhelmed Randy Couture that night. I am lucky I didn't kill him.

When I was out of breath he lay at my feet bleeding and puffing.

He said " I deserved that. Now PLEASE can you just leave me alone ?".

Scumbag. Gave me reason to respect him. I never expected or wanted that.

So did I get closure ? No but I do not regret what I did. That he took his stripes, and never reported me to the police is to his great credit.

And it makes me happy to think that he lives just a little bit in fear of me now.

But closure ? Never.

Thanks, I dream of a good head bashing almost every day. Then, I stop in 8:00am Mass and pray for the feelings to leave my head.

Today I am plagued by a gut feeling. I wish I knew what to do. Tomorrow is my B-day and I'm scared about it. I know I'll be disappointed. Not by gifts, that's not really a big deal to me. But, by his lack of concern. He can be soooo thoughtless. I was up alot last night scared. I don't know why. I just feel scared. That feeling you have when you're right at the top of the roller coaster about to go down.

Today he told me he was asked to go fishing on the 14th of November by a co-worker and his 3 other buddies. H has never done this before. I really have no problem with it as I really like the guy who asked. But, again, it's an independent activity AND the weekend right before our 18th anniversary and I was under the impression we may go away to Lancaster for a day or two. Hmm....maybe the next weekend. I never gave him an actual date so it's not really his fault.

The gut is usually NOT wrong. But, it can be paranoid.

Bob, you are my hero.

I was too crippled to go toe to toe on equal terms with OM at the time, but now that I'm physically recovered, I could make him into a greasy spot with my pent up rage for him.

I am lucky that I didn't carry out what I was going to do as he wasn't worth my freedom and him always wondering is worth so much more to me.

I guess he knows one day it's coming, he just needs to man up and take it.

My prefered scourge of choice is 2 feet of fan belt.

Fiori

Just catching up with your thread.

Ive got nothing to offer, except sympathy. Im 2.5 years post d-day and lately, Ive become more obsessed with contacting the OW. I want to destroy her emotionally (although Bobs story is GREAT! Id love to do that as well, but Im way better at verbal sparring)

I guess this comes from a gut feeling that I never got the full truth from my H. He swears this isnt the case but frankly, Id be stupid to believe someone who lied to me in the past.

Mimi,
Here's the deal with the NC letter. When I found MB, presumed NC was already established by a month and a half. When OW's mother died and H did not go to the funeral (as she expected he would), she seemed to slither away. Shortly after that I found MB. I explained the NC letter and H agreed (grudgingly) to write one. This was a several day process of me changing and trying to make him understand it's importance. But, we struck a deal. Right or wrong, the deal was:

I keep the letter. If there is ANY contact from either H or OW the letter would go out that very day in certified mail.

To this day, I have the letter. I have no proof of any contact. By this I mean actual contact, not just working for the same company.

This morning I nicely told H that I could no longer put up with the work situation and that I'd like for him to put 110% more effort into finding a job. I also told him if he had to take a pay decrease i would get a job, if necessary. I do work for my mom's company but only bring in a relatively small paycheck. But, it pays for kid stuff and groceries.

WOW!!!
I wish I could do that! Seems strange to do so but I congratulate you on the a#$ whoopin you gave OM!

The letter MUST be sent! This is recommended by Dr. Harley in SURVIVING AN AFFAIR as THE WAY to end AN AFFAIR.

You actually have NO PROOF that there has been NO CONTACT.

Sorry, Fiori.

I say NONE of this to HURT you....

All of it to HELP save your marriage.

You need to see your husband, IMO, as a WAYWARD until he definitely proves otherwise and he would be more than willing to do the letter if there has been no contact AND if he wants to assist in REPAIRING what he has done to you.

We sent I know TWO NO CONTACT LETTERS.

For me, it was as much MY HUSBAND'S DEMONSTRATION that he was COMMITTED as much as anything else.

IT IS AN ADDICTION! HE WANTS TO CONTINUE USING AND HAVE THAT POTENTIAL TO USE!!

EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS, including the NC LETTER, are NECESSARY and ESSENTIAL!!

I know, having lived through more than one FALSE RECOVERY!!

Alcoholics do not have liquor around the house...

Yannow fiori its not the thing I'm proudest of throughout this whole mess. Understandable yes, scratched an itch, yes but it gave OM the chance to act nobly and that still grates.

And as a Christian it was hardly turning the other cheek was it ?

And it could have gone very wrong if he'd reported me to the police for example. Or if I'd gone too far and really damaged him.

I suppose it DID serve to make OM "human" in my estimation. He was subhuman before this episode. A wicked witch. In truth he is just a scumbag who took what my wife offered.

Don't FEAR to confront OW, Fiori. but don't feel compelled to either.

Mimi,
I had an old thread on here that is no longer active. On this I asked many, many people for advise regarding sending the NC letter. All the advise I got was to NOT send it since she had stopped the barrage of phone calls and slinky visits to his office. It was thought that if we sent the letter then, it would give her reason to contact him again, opening an unwanted can of worms.

Instead, we set down some scenario's for HOW H would handle the situation if there was attempted contact. We have scripted this many times and tweeked it too. We are approaching the one year anniv. of D-day. I do NOT and CANNOT find the strength to stir the pot now and have her begin her assault once again.

Trust me, if I had been instructed to do so 8 months ago I would have sent the letter. But, NOW, it seems odd. I have no problem sending it if there is contact.

When do you reach a point where you have to let it go? I feel like I am at the point where I have to say to H: Hey, from here on out it's your choice. All I can do is love you and be your friend. If you choose to squander that I have no power to stop you other than my love. Have at it, if that is what you truely want." I suppose this would be an incorrect approach, but it's what I currently feel. I'm so tired of being at the top of the roller coaster ready to drop. And, I can't afford any more clothing!

That is basically what I told my H...It is your choice, I don't control you but I am telling you that our M will not withstand you working with OW.

Your current thought process concerns me, Fiori, that your H is draining his LB account into the danger zone.

Have you even considered the possiblity of Plan B if he doesn't get another job w/n a set amount of time? If he shows you that he is pursuing it vigorously, I could see giving him more wiggle room, but you have really endured this an awful long time.

Hang in there.

I am really a BY THE BOOK kinda MBer's Koolaid Drinker!!

According to Dr. Harley in SURVIVING AN AFFAIR, the NC LETTER is ESSENTIAL!!

I'm not sure why you were instructed differently.

It would have prevented SOMEWHAT, I think, what you are going through now, regarding the marked calendar.

I'm thinking you don't have a good understanding of some of the MAJOR, BASIC MBer's PRINCIPLES!!

It's PLAN A, PLAN B then RECOVERY...not YOUR PLAN...

See what I mean?



As Bitter stated, YOUR PLAN may lead your LOVE BANK to dwindle or even ENABLE your HUSBAND in his current affair or even open up the opportunity to more...

Because my H had an AFFAIR, our MARRIAGE is DIFFERENT...I don't just "LOVE HIM". There are certain EXPECTATIONS that WE have AGREED UPON. He takes EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to make sure that he never sees or talks to the other woman again in his LIFETIME as EXPLICITLY STATED in the NC LETTER. That is the EXPECTATION in order for us to continue to be married and to LOVE each other...

This is EXPLAINED in the AFFAIR chapter of HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS. I encourage you to read that chapter.

Mimi,

I was just wondering...would it make more sense to send the NC once he leaves the job? I think the work dynamic is such that someone that reports to Fiori's H works w/OW and her name is on reports, emails etc...so I could see it being awkward for her H to send the letter while he still works there...