awh,

Have divorce papers been filed?

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to save your marriage with what I'm about to say.

I'm merely pointing something out to you:

What would motivate her to return to you since she has no children with you?

There is no family to save.

It's your relationship, and that's it.

She is out trying "to find herself" and that doesn't include you.

I caution you on waiting too long. You have no kids so don't hold your breath forever waiting for a cheating spouse to return.

I'm not saying don't try to save your marriage. I'm encouraging you to not wait forever. You will only want your wife back if she's committed to reforming her errors and putting in changes that will keep her from straying ever again.

When you say divorce papers are you talking actual divorce papers (court of law) or does that include separation papers(legal sep papers)?
If so, right now all I know is that she told me she went to see a lawyer. The next day she sent me an email saying I will be receiving a letter from her lawyer in the next few weeks. Didn't state that it was separation papers per say. I'm assuming it's a "draft letter" asking me to provide a lawyer, and probably account details, property etc?

I'm unsure of these actions by her.....for these reasons.

1)Is she is doing this because I told her sisters (when exposing) that I was planning on getting a lawyer myself and drawing up the sep papers because I need to finish the renos on the house and therefore need to protect myself financially. BUT I made sure I told them I'm NOT doing this to end the marriage, I want to save it.

2) Why did she wait over 3 months to finally see a lawyer, and did so only a week after I exposed to her sisters?

3) Did the exposure pi$$ her off and want to end it? Or is is possibly guilt for her A and that she feels ending the marriage is easier than admitting she was wrong? Is this maybe her backlash? She never came after me personally in an email or person or phone to confront me for doing it.

What are your thoughts on this???

AWH:

She has done.....



NOTHING.

ZIP. NADA. ZERO.

Waywards DON'T DO ANYTHING.

Don't listen to them and only watch her actions.

You have been advised to expose, expose, expose.

Yet you did nothing. For a long time.

And then, you expect your wayward wife to have done "ALL THESE THINGS!"

She never called the lawyer.

She threatened YOU with her claim that she did. But she didn't.

Lawyers do NOT send letters in a couple of weeks. Lawyers, good ones, send letters in three days. Especially for new clients.

So, next time she threatens you about that, just ask for the name, address and phone number so that YOUR attorney can contact hers. Then tell her:

"I do marriage, my attorney does Divorce"

"How about coffee next Tuesday at noon?

LG

LG, you're right I didn't expose fast enough, I was wallowing! I did expose......

I KNOW for fact that she has talked to a lawyer. I have gone into her email account and there are 2 emails

-First was a client info sheet pdf and a scheduled appointment for a consult a week or so later.
-The second email was a retainer pdf. and a draft letter pdf.

Where is the plan b letter?

awh,

If you're not lawyered up then you need to be.

Hate to tell you, bud, but with no kids in the picture this woman has checked out and has nothing to motivate her to return or restore.

Get a bulldog, go after her for all you can, and throw her to the curb.

If you leave it one sided and you don't have a lawyer then he or she will draft a very one sided divorce agreement which will screw you.

She'll tell you things you want to hear in order to get you to sign it, such as, "Oh, this is just for a little while so that we have time apart to heal. I'm confident we'll be together again someday. Now don't make this difficult or ugly."

You'll nod because you'll want to believe. You'll go along because you trust her and love her.

Well, it's time to wake up.

Lawyer up and come at her with full legal force.

File for adultery and mental cruelty.

Time to stop wallowing and take action. It's over. You have no kids and she's lawyered up.

You be Mr. Nice Guy to her and let your lawyer be the bear.

But you can't just sit idle.

You have the advantage if you file first for divorce.

Sorry introvert, I didn't get a chance to post it. I had a counselling session after work and was on the phone until late with my M afterwards.

Just to throw a wrench into things I spoke to my counsellor about the fact that I have pages of letters written over the last 3-4 months of all my thoughts and feelings (kinda like a journal, unedited, hand written originals). My counsellor said since the underlying issue in our relationship is poor communication skills on both our parts which didn't help us meet eachothers ENs, etc. she thinks it could be a good idea to present these letters to her with a cover letter somewhat similar to the Plan B letter (the tone of a love letter but with reasoning of why I'm presenting them to her, and that I'd like to open the communication channels between us either by letter, email, text, phone or in person however she feels comfortable to start. That I will listen to what she has to say, not be judgemental and that I'm putting my heart on the line. She says that this will help me clear my concience of what I want to say and gives my WW an opportunity to see me open and not a threat.

IF I hear nothing from her for 2 weeks the Plan B letter would be given to her.

Thoughts??? I know everyone here says YOU NEED A PLAN!! I've also been told that I have NOTHING TO LOOSE, so why not give her all these letters??? Harleys haven't called me for a consultaion yet....

I will have a chance later tonight to get that Plan B letter posted. Sorry again for that.

Ok, I can't get an appointment until next Mon or Tues next week. I don't want to send the Plan B letter until I have talked to Jen or Steve. A day here or there isn't going to get me anywhere anyways.
I received the "letter" from my W's lawyer. This is close to word for word, does this letter mean this will in turn be a separation or an immediate divorce based on her admitting to adultery??

States that my W has asked this lawyer to assist her in finalizing a property settlement and a divorce. That the lawyer understands I would like to remain in the family home and buy out W's interest in the home. In order to do that (lawyer) requires the following financial information. (such has bank account,RRSP, and any other assests or debts in my mane or joint w/W.)

Once (lawyer) has the information, W and (lawyer) will discuss and propose a settlement figure.

Ok, I can't get an appointment until next Mon or Tues next week. I don't want to send the Plan B letter until I have talked to Jen or Steve. A day here or there isn't going to get me anywhere anyways.

So what you're saying is you plan to send the letter in 2-3 working days (things are slow here on weekends). When are you going to post the draft so it can be fine tuned? You're running out of time.

Ask your lawyer about the letter and what it means.

I was thinking about your sitch last night, AWH.

It seems to me that your WW is thinking she can file for divorce and go "find herself" while maintaining her good buddy friendship with you. She's got some fantasy in her mind about how everyone can live happily-ever-after and this will all turn out peachy.

I think it's time she learns what she's giving up.

Can you do a TOTALLY dark Plan B?

Do you have (or can you get) a pitbull lawyer that will delay the D, not agree to no-fault (or counter-sue on the grounds of adultery), and generally make things miserable for her?

Hey, where'd you go?

I'm still here. I've been trying to give my wife some time and take some for myself. I've been working my 180 plan and have felt so much better about myself that I didn't really want to converse with my wife. I don't really have anything to say. I think about her every day and want to talk to her about working on things but I don't think she is ready. I continue to pray to God to give me strength, which He definately has, and I ask him to be with my wife and to watch over her. I have not contacted her in any way since the phone call mid august and left that conversation as, you know where I am and how to get ahold of me if you'd like to talk. I will not push for answers and would like to go out for coffee or something if you would like.

She admits she knows I was trying, knows that I still love her and feels I love her more than she loves me. She recently admitted to her close friend that she (her words) ripped my heart out, through it on the ground and stomped all over it. That doesn't make her feel very good. She feels ashamed of whats happened. She feels stupid. Yet she still sticks by her thoughts that she hadn't been happy for a long time and that getting married was the next logical step in our relationship and that she had always wanted to be married. She's upset that it took her till now to figure out that she doesn't want to be married to me. That this wasn't her just waking up one morning at that thought.. She says that she's trying to do what's best for her. She's trying to get on with her life the way that she wants it to go. This is her story to her close friend...


So what I see is this. Correct me if I'm wrong.....

She no longer loves me. The marriage to her, is dead. This was a long time coming (for her), and neither of us were mature enough in "relationship building" to keep this from happening. We both didn't accept our responsibilites and we didn't deal with the problems because 1) I thought everything was ok, and 2) she never brought them to the forefront with the seriousness they deserved. She is moving on, not wanting to talk, not willing to try. The EA made her think there is another world our there where she'll be happy (could be truth or foe, time will tell). She decided to take the leap out of her comfort zone, our marriage.
I think all the "I don't know how I'll feel months from now or even a year and may want to come back is a bunch of BS that had partly to do with her confusion at the time and trying to let me down easy. Her waiting 3.5 months to finally start the separation, and waiting until I exposed the affair to her sisters, then a week later started the papers, I can't explain. Why she hasn't removed OUR wedding pictures, trip pictures, etc from her Facebook page, again no idea. Why she keeps my emails.....no idea.

She sent me an email last week. Kinda in response to mine from 2-3 weeks ago telling her I can't cancel our joint credit card until I have signatures on the paper. She has wanted no contact since I confronted her about the PA. Now she emails me, "Do you want to get together so that I can sign the paper for canceling the credit card. Or do you just want to mail it?" So how do I read that.... now she's willing to see me? It's been over 2 months since we've been face to face.....

I appreciate you all pushing me to write the plan B letter. I have taken all your info to heart and have done a lot of thinking. I'm going to turn MY life around, the 180 for ME. And I feel much better as a person doing it. I will not close the door to her but allow her to knock at it if/when she is ready. Even though the Plan B letter was never written on my behalf I think she had taken the plan b route already. A letter will mean nothing to her, my actions will speak louder than words. IF she sees me as a better person and someone she would like to be with again and sees herself happy she will come back. Until then I will hold on to my faith and two sayings that I try to live by....

"If you love someone enough, you will let them go. If it was meant to be they will return"
"Everything in life happens for a reason, a reason you may never know or understand, but allow it to make changes in you and learn from it as you can"

I was having a GOOD couple months....The last couple days have been crap. It hit me like a brick wall. I miss my wife, best friend, lover. I want to hold her in my arms. I want to talk to her about anything and everything in life. Yet I'm discusted by her actions, so hurt by her lies, and am so dumbfounded on the fact that she is basically saying that over these years our relationship was a lie, that when I handed my heart to her in marriage, the feeling was not reciprocated. That she has been selfish both in our relationship and now, only thinking of herself.....

Sorry to end on such a harsh note. Needed to vent a little.

Not to downplay your hurt or anything, but I think she's still in that fog. It may take her a lot longer for it to clear before she really realizes what she's done.

Oh, mercy, where to start?

She no longer loves me. The marriage to her, is dead. This was a long time coming (for her)...She is moving on, not wanting to talk, not willing to try. The EA made her think there is another world our there where she'll be happy...
Classic fog talk. Pay it no mind. Do not dwell there, for it is futile. Really, you're wasting your energy.

Her waiting 3.5 months to finally start the separation, and waiting until I exposed the affair to her sisters, then a week later started the papers, I can't explain. Why she hasn't removed OUR wedding pictures, trip pictures, etc from her Facebook page, again no idea. Why she keeps my emails.....no idea.
Because you are/were in Plan A. She knows what you can be.

"Do you want to get together so that I can sign the paper for canceling the credit card. Or do you just want to mail it?" So how do I read that.... now she's willing to see me? It's been over 2 months since we've been face to face.....
She wants to string you along. You wouldn't need to wonder about any of this if you had a Plan B letter in place.

Even though the Plan B letter was never written on my behalf I think she had taken the plan b route already. A letter will mean nothing to her, my actions will speak louder than words. IF she sees me as a better person and someone she would like to be with again and sees herself happy she will come back.
She doesn't take Plan B - you do.
Seeing you as a better person is a result of your Plan A, not Plan B.
Plan B allows you to protect what love you have left for her, and it allows her to experience life without you meeting any of her ENs (which you are doing, by waiting in the wings for her).

You might be right catperson, but the divorce can be finalized as of May/09, still 8 months is a long time BUT also will go by VERY quickly.....

I know, but people remarry all the time. And a lot can change in that time.

I can agree with you with what you said. I agree a lot can still change....

But...personaly, I don't want to get divorced and get remarried. In a way I feel that if a couple gets divorced, dates other people and sleeps with others, etc. it's like giving the couple a freebie to have an affair that's not considered an affair. Not sure if that makes sense but I married because I am dedicated to spending the rest of my life with one person. That was my vows.
If my wife divorces me, moves on for 1-3yrs let's say, and then for some reason down the road we are still in contact and she then wants to get back together I just don't know how I would feel re-marrying someone who shattered my heart, didn't have enough respect for me to be truthful, ran away from the problems in our marriage the first time.

Have you read the thread by Abandonedwith3kids? It's pretty inspirational on how someone thought his life was over and ended up in the happiest place of his life - without his ex. Not necessarily what you should aspire to, but it might give you a sense of hope.

So why do I hear on these boards that women usually need to be emotionally involved with OM before they sleep with them and that has A LOT to do with the the fact the WW has already given up emotionally on their H and Marriage. Seems like a lot say that at this point MANY WW don't come back because they have already left their Hs emotionally a long time ago? How can you diferentiate btwn fog and her real feelings of being done? I KNOW THAT"S A NEAR IMPOSSIBLE QUESTION TO ANSWER.

For most women, it's all about the emotional attachment. They have to feel emotionally attached to their husbands before SF is any good. For most men, it's all about the sex, and they need sex to feel emotionally attached to their wives.

So for most women, there has to be a strong emotional attachment before the A goes physical. Obviously I'm speaking in gross generalities and there are many, many exceptions.

You seem to think that because WW has given up on the H and the Marriage, that it's a permanent thing which cannot be undone. Love can be built and it can be destroyed. People go through states of intimacy, conflict, and withdrawal. These are fluid things, not fixed. So while your W left you emotionally (she had to, to allow herself to become involved with OM), it doesn't mean she can't/won't come back.

How can you differentiate between the fog and her feelings of being done? I don't think you can. I think the feelings of being done are, in a way, part of the fog. The fog is the set of illogical rationalizations a wayward uses to explain circumstances to themselves, and to "prove" why things are (and must be) the way they are. So the feeling of being detached from the spouse "proves" that the marriage is over, was never meant to be, blah, blah, blah. The problem is, waywards don't realize that the feeling of being done is transient and can change. They think it is permanent and insurmountable.