I explained myself clearly enough. I am sure you understand my point, as I understand yours.

I take 100% resposibility for my 50% of the marriage, if I were to take 100% of the responibility for 100% of the marriage then I would be making my wife an unequal parter in our marriage partnership.

I am sure you understand what I am saying.
Let us not disagree about the way we use words to explain such simple things.
OK?

I'm guessing you are trying to be witty with the comment about passing your school exams, but I really do hope you got my point which is that each spouse needs to put forth 100% of their effort into the marriage. If you approach marriage (especiaaly during recovery) from the mind frame that you own 50% of your marriage that may be a slippery slope and lead you to only put forth less than 100% of your effort. So my point in a nut shell is that each spouse needs to give their all, regardless of how you want to quantify that with numbers. Please note I am not trying to be arguementative, I just wanted to clarify what I meant by 100%/100%.

I don't think we disagree Flick. You both share responsibility for the health of your marriage; you both give your marriage everything you've got - does that state it better?

What about the other questions in my post?

(I see you edited your post - I agree - let's not get lost in semantics)

I am pleased you clarified what you meant, as it was not clear from your original post.
I do not disagree with what you are saying. In fact I totally agree.

I don't understand why you thought I was not(or would not) put in a full measure of effort, that was not the topic of my original post (I am sure that if you look at the original post you will see that).

However, as I have said to BigKahuna, it has been an intersting chat, ta.

Oh if you don't like my wit just ignore it, it is not intended to cause any offence.

We actually went right through the lot. Our lists are very silmilar in some ways and very different in a few.
Here is the full list for both of us from top to bottom

Flick - Lil
RC - Af
PA - H&O
SF - SF
C - C
Ad - Ad
Af - RC
H&O - FS
FS - PA
DS - DS
FC - FC

Our 1 & 2 are very different, Lil says she can't figure out why RC should be so important, but she accepts it, and she can't get to grips with it being so easy to do. She has made a big effort to take up a bunch of my interests and I would love to take up some of hers but she honestly has none (please feel free to ask her). She also has very little trouble with PA, she is a very sexy woman, there were a few changes, no more sitting around the house in her work (farm) clothes.
I have made an effort to show Lil non-sexual affection, it has paid off, I never knew how important it was. Lils number 2 is a tuff one, having been so sneeky for so long it is a bit of a major adjustment but I am trying.
We both have the same number 3,4 & 5- so that's just easy as.
In our bottom 4 we both share 3 of them so that helps things along too.

So things are really going rather well as far as the ENs are concerned. There are a couple that each of us need to work on but on the whole I think we've got it nailed. Still there are a few wrinkles to sort out but they are really just a matter of getting used to filling each others ENs and coming to grips with the fact that doing these simple things is so satisfying to the other person, when they don't matter very much to us.

I have bought a motorbike, always wanted one and now I have some spare cash I figured why not. So once I got my bike I had to find one for Lil too. We picked her bike up about 10 days ago, now I am teaching her how to ride round in circles in a carpark, and teaching myself how to handle a road bike again too (haven't ridden for almost 20 years). We are both looking forward to hitting the open road when the weather gets better and going to places that we have not been before. One of our first long trip in the summer is going to be to look at some old railway viaducts, it will involve a 3 hour ride and then a 2 hour walk then another ride home (or a motel for the night before going home). It's the sort of thing that I have always enjoyed doing and Lil says that it all sounds interesting too.
I know that someone will pick up on the fact that I am not taking up any of Lils recreational pursuits and as I have already said she dosen't have any. She used to read books ALL THE TIME, this meant that there was no time left for her to do other things (or as she just said "I didn't like to move my [censored]") When she started to look at my pass-times she decided that they looked quite interesting and could be fun so she has taken up many of them (actually she just told me that she only started doing them as a part of her plan A to get me back - clever girl it worked. She still says that they are enjoyable and she is pleased that she has become involved in them).
There are pass-times that Lil used to do before we started working on farms, mostly craft type things like cross-stitch and I used to do a few little ones from time to time, it gave us something to talk about and that was important as we did not have television. I would still join her in doing craft things if she did them, she says she ran out of time and at about 300 hours for a medium sized cross-stitch it is easy to see that a full time job and such a time consuming hobby do not go together well. She has said that when we move off the farm and a little closer to town she would like to do ballroom dancing, I am looking forward to dancing with her.

Well I guess I've covered RC quite well, sorry about the long post. I might explore my thoughts on some of the other ENs in the next few days (after the weekend).

OK - I'll wait till I see the rest of your reply before responding

Done

Look forward to your reply

OK - Thanks for your reply.

So lildoggie doesn't have RC - that's fine.

Harley talks about building a mutually satisfying lifestyle. About building compatibility.

What sorts of things did you do together when you were courting? If lil is happy to d your RC things - I don't think that is a problem. It's when you both do RC alone that there's a problem and you grow apart.

OK. As part of the EN survey, did you each rate each other on how good you are at meeting each others needs? Did you develop a plan to make up for the shortfall?

For instance...... lil has a top need of Affection. She might say she would like you to do xxxxx 5 times a day. Do you have a plan to do xxxxx 5 times a day? That kind of thing.

Did you buy the Basic concepts DVD? It's pretty good and inexpensive. Harley talks in that DVD about us forming habits! It's really a good resource flick.

Flick:

Outside of the famr thing, are you sure you didn't marry Flamingo?

She's a librarian for gosh sake, and she can read some books!

But... I have to be the one to get her [censored] of the couch.

She would rather stay put, but if I plan something, she goes, and has a good time.

Riding on the motorcycles and traveling the countryside sounds like excellent RC time.

Try the ballroom dancing. We square dance. It gets us out, gets us active, and gets us in each other arms.

It's EASY to grow apart in a Marriage. Changing those bad habits into better ones, where you do things together, is an MB concept that we had to learn.

And BK is right. If Lil's #1 EN is affection, that is really easy to meet, but you HAVE to do it. And when you do, it gets ALOT easier. Back rubs, hugs, holding hands, kind words. They have a tendency to multipy quickly as you get better at this MB Stuff.

LG

Flick, I have a question for you. Do you feel guilt and remorse for the way you treated your wife? I don't mean a twinge of mild guilt, I mean do you HURT for the abuse you put her through? Do you long to make her life easier, to show her your devotion and affection, and protect her from ever feeling similar pain again?

BTW, this is not a trick question; I'm seriously asking.

Hi

That is an interesting question, or serveral interesting questions.

Do I feel guilt and remorse? I would say yes, however the biggest single emotion would be SHAME. I am ashamed of what I have done, shame comes from a knowledge of guilt and genuine guilt leads to remorse. So yes I do, I just can't understand how much hurt I have caused her, she can explain it but if I do not experiance the same situation then I am unlikely to understand how she really feels.

Your next sentance/queston seems to be a bundle of questions, not just one question, so I will answer each one.

Do I long to make her life easier? Now that is an interesting one, I could almost write an essay on it. If we take the question at face value then the answer is yes I do want to make her life easier, it seems like what everyone would want for their wife. The question that needs to be asked now is "just how easy do I want to make her life and what is an 'easy life'?" I could make her life easier by hireing a maid, and not letting her work, getting a job and supporting her financially, that sounds like a easy life to me. However I do not think that she would enjoy that sort of life for very long and therefore that would not really be an easy life.
I think that you are asking if I want to make it easier for my wife to trust me and thus make her happier and that would lead to a "better" life. In that case the answer is yes.
The rest of the question, "to show her your devotion and affection and protect her from ever feeling that way again?" There are three parts to this, DEVOTION - yes I want my wife to know that I am devoted to her. AFFECTION - that is her top EN, I don't see what is so great about it but it is important to her in the same way that RC is important to me so I will show her as much affection as she wants, I do not think I will ever be able to show her too much affection. And then there is the PROTECTION aspect - I would almost class that as a "no brainer" it is why I am doing MB. I never wanted to make her feel the way she feels now or the way she felt when she found out about the A, or the qway she felt when I said I was not going to come home.

Now for the short answer, YES.

Just one final thought, you ask "I mean do you HURT for the abuse you put her through?" I would have to say the honest answer is that I do not. The reason I say that is because I do not feel a hurt and I do nt see what I did as abuse. I would use the words "deep and honest guilt" in place of "hurt" and that is what I feel, well honest guilt, the feeling of guilt gets deeper with time, as I discover how much stress and grief I put her through. The abuse is something I am still coming to grips with, I understand that I did it and that she feels that way, but I don't fully understand it yet.

9 dictionary results for: abuse
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
a·buse /v. əˈbyuz; n. əˈbyus/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[v. uh-byooz; n. uh-byoos] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, a·bused, a·bus·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority.
2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight.
3. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.
4. to commit sexual assault upon.
5. Obsolete. to deceive or mislead.
–noun 6. wrong or improper use; misuse: the abuse of privileges.
7. harshly or coarsely insulting language: The officer heaped abuse on his men.
8. bad or improper treatment; maltreatment: The child was subjected to cruel abuse.
9. a corrupt or improper practice or custom: the abuses of a totalitarian regime.
10. rape or sexual assault.



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[Origin: 1400–50; (v.) late ME abusen < MF abuser, v. deriv. of abus < L ab&#363;sus misuse, wasting, equiv. to ab&#363;t(&#299;) to use up, misuse (ab- ab- + &#363;t&#299; to use) + -tus suffix of v. action; (n.) late ME abus < MF abus or L ab&#363;sus]

—Related forms
a·bus·a·ble /&#601;&#712;byuz&#601;b&#601;l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-byoo-zuh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, adjective
a·bus·er, noun


—Synonyms 1. misapply. 2. ill-use, maltreat, injure, harm, hurt. 3. vilify, vituperate, berate, scold; slander, defame, calumniate, traduce. 6. misapplication. 7. slander, aspersion. Abuse, censure, invective all mean strongly expressed disapproval. Abuse implies an outburst of harsh and scathing words against another (often one who is defenseless): abuse directed against an opponent. Censure implies blame, adverse criticism, or hostile condemnation: severe censure of acts showing bad judgment. Invective applies to strong but formal denunciation in speech or print, often in the public interest: invective against graft.
—Antonyms 3, 7. praise.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
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What we did to our spouse' was nothing short of abuse!

You can minimize it all you want but it is still abuse!

You didn't guilt your wife or even just make her feel bad, you didn't hurt her, as in cut her with a knife, YOU abused her as in F'ing someone else while you were married.
You chose, just as I did to commit adultary. You lied, decieved, punished, blamed, and emotionally twisted anothers life, (YOUR WIFE'S). ALL to protect yourself selfishly and you were willing to sacrafice your wife in the process. Etc. Etc. Etc.

It's not a word game. It is a simple admission that YOU did abuse your wife. It is not to say you are not attempting to restore and repay for the vile act YOU committed. It is simply admitting to the truth and knowing that you both can be healed from this.

You are doing many of the actions necessary to recover, but IMO, you must acknowlege the abuse and know that is what YOU did during your A.

I'm curious. Have you made face to face amends to your wife and children for all the lies and deceit and yes, abuse?

Have you gone back to all family and friends and exonerated your wife from any of the blame for YOUR A?

This is called cleaning up the wreckage of YOUR past. It is a step in the recovery process that shouldn't be overlooked.

Guilt and shame are not the same things. Shame is what you feel when you know other people are aware of what you've done. Guilt is something you feel even if no one else knows about what you've done.

Flick - that is so sweet that you came to MB to protect your wife. I really see the effort in THAT. Look around and count how many men came here because there wife was posting. There are just a couple. So I admire you for that, because you are DOING it, and that says so much more than words.

Flick, thank you for taking time to thoughtfully answer my many questions. I see so much progress!

Of course there is still room for improvement, and I pray that your marriage will continue to thrive and grow, and that one day you and your wife will be happier than you ever dreamed.

Hang in there!

Hey TST,
if it is not a word game then why did you send me a full copy of the definition of the word?
Like I said in the original post, the abuse idea is something that I am still getting my head around. Once I have got my head around it then I will, I guess, be in a better possition to fully own up to it and accept it.

Not according to my dictionary. I stand by what I said.

We are getting happier and happier with each passing day. It is really nice to see Lil happy.
Thank you.

:crosseyedcrazy:
I sent the definition to help you get your head wrapped around the idea that you did abuse Lil' and you need to step outside of all the rationalizing that prevents you from accepting this.



so how about my other questions?