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#2133686 09/28/08 02:49 PM
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It actually hurts my heart to ask these questions, but I think I will lose my mind if I don't get some input here.

My husband is less than transparent with me. Since the A, he has lied to me about a number of things that have nothing to do with an A, but they have nevertheless done nothing but decrease my trust and respect for him. He always says he's sorry, but then he finds something else to lie about.

My #1 EN is Openness and Honesty. He and I have had this discussion repeatedly. I've honestly tried everything I know to deal with his dishonesty and I think I am almost to the end of the rope. I can tell him that but it just does not seem to have any meaning for him.

Lately, I have been having odd inklings that something may be up again. Maybe an A or the beginnings of one. I could be wrong. I hope with all my heart I am wrong.

I have never told our whole story here because it truly is unusually complicated in the details. And for the most part it was a common garden-variety affair.

To greatly condense it, my H has a disability that prevents him from driving. I drive him to work(round trip 86 miles). He has been looking for a different job since we got married, but the truth is that his disability is making it impossible to find one. If he quits this job or loses it for any reason, the liklihood is that he will not find another one. He has HUGE medical needs that we NEED to be covered by insurance. At this point in time, quitting his job is NOT an option. Period. It has been considered seriously, other options looked into and we can not come up with another solution.

Also, moving is not a possibility right now either, for countless reasons. I am truly giving you the Reader's Digest version of this and hope that for the moment at least that you will accept that I am not just refusing to consider other options. Actually, the only place we could even consider moving AT ALL would put us very close to the OW. Not going to happen.

She works in the same building. The building is HUGE. They have no incidental contact. In order to have contact he would have to seek her out. She is unable to seek him out given the nature of her job and her lack of proximity to his area. I know THESE things to be fact.

His A took place almost exclusively at work. The one exception was a time when *I* actually drove him to meet her(of course, I thought he was doing something else). And once, when I drove him to work but he had called off and took a bus to see her, once I was out of sight. He was then back where he belonged by the time I picked him up and I was none the wiser. And of course, cell phone time too.

When it ended, it ended. I think. I have been diligent about checking the cell phone and he did not even carry it for 7 months. I call him unexpectedly at work and he has always been where he's supposed to be.

My problem though is that I have caught him in other lies and I was dumfounded. I had no idea. I realize that he has become a very skilled liar and that he has learned how to throw me off the track very well.

My current concern is that he feels very distant from me again. He has no trouble not talking to me for hours at a time and is often non-responsive when I talk to him. He does not respond to affectionate overtures(I don't mean SF, just affection).

And his interest in SF is very low. When he does initiate, it feels as though he has to spend a lot of time talking himself into it. He was JUST like that during the A. I have not said one word to him about my worries because I know he would lie about it anyway. I think I am going to have to figure it out on my own.

Here's my problem. Snooping. I am looking for any suggestions for things I have not thought of. He works in a secure building. No one gets in without access. I have considered a PI to watch through certain windows, but anyone who is ever around this building seeming to be watching is questioned. People with cameras are watched for and banned from the site and surrounding areas. This is not a government building. Just a very secure one.

He changes into his uniform at work. His workplace cleans his uniforms.

He does not use a computer or e-mail, either at work or at home.

I have considered the possiblity that he has a secret cellphone that he keeps at work, but don't know how to find out. He does not have an office. He has a lot of "free time" at work, when he can be off doing something. He doesn't have to account for all his time in a specific way. He can say general things about where he's been and what he's been doing. It really is the nature of his position. That's how he managed to have an A without many people knowing.

Sorry for the length. I realized that more background was necessary.

I am really looking for ANY ideas that ANYONE can give me in regards to snooping in this situation. I have hit a brick wall here and am willing to listen to anything that anyone might suggest.

Thank you and Blessings,
WH2LE


WH2LE

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I think I asked you this before, but can he get social security disability?

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Not quite.

His doctor calls him disabled but SS would give him some difficulty with this.

If he really ended up without a job we would absolutely pursue the SS Disability option.

However, his amount would be VERY low because he has not worked all his adult life. It would not pay for his prescriptions.

We are low income. When I married him, I realized that this would be the case. My driving him prevents me from working full-time. My job and my schedule are built around his. I am fortunate enough to have an employer who accomodates me in many ways.

Most people do not understand this when I tell them. They think I should go out and get some fabulous job and HE should accomodate ME! That he should take whatever job he can no matter what it is so that *I* can make the money and he won't have to.
(Believer, I am not implying that you feel that way. I just have had THAT discussion with SO many people that I thought I should throw this thought in the mix.)

I don't feel that way. 75% of Americans with his severity of disability are UNEMPLOYED. It's staggering. The longer he is able to work at a "professional" job, the better it is for him in every way. Physically, emotionally, financially.

He is a NORMAL man in every way. Not working if he can POSSIBLY work would make him crazy. REALLY crazy. He wants to work. I want him to work.

I so appreciate your thought on this. SS Disability, while not out of the question is an absolute LAST resort for us.

Blessings,
WH2LE


ETA: I will add though, that IF I should find ANY evidence of an A, he would be GONE...GONE...GONE, no matter what it would mean for him. It's possible that his newfound habit of dishonesty will lead me to that situation anyway. I hope not.


Last edited by Wknghrd2LoveEasy; 09/28/08 04:46 PM. Reason: clarification

WH2LE

BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007
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Posts: 27,069
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Just wondering, because my sons' father was disabled after a heart attack and finally was approved for SS. He was turned down, and then got an attorney.

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WH2LE,

So he had a physical affair on the job? Yet you think he would have trouble reconnecting with OW again at the same site?

It seems to me that you are enabling him to keep the job and therefore the environment with OW around. I understand the financial issues, though you do have options. There is COBRA, very expensive I know. And you could let *him* worry about the insurance issues and find another job. You could just insist that for you to remain with him he will have to find another job. His problem to do so or not.

If he finds another job or leaves his present position and as a result you are poorer but married to someone you can trust, would that be worse?

I'm not advocating that you should let it go to a point of financial devastation, but there are some values questions you might rethink. You are choosing to let him keep that job.

In answer to your specific question, I think it would take a very organized person to only conduct an A on the job site with no outside contact or traces. So I'd check his 'personal' spaces -- like wallets, desk drawers -- and your outgoing trash when you can do so alone. If he doesn't use a computer at home or work, then you might find a paper trail like telling credit card receipts, cell phone bills, love notes, pictures, etc... And I'd check his 'legit' cell phone. Or ask him directly to let you do that in front of him. Evasion on his part would probably tell you what you need to know. You can also get caller id on your home line and get a device that records the numbers dialing in. Its really interesting when you notice calls getting deleted. Why would anyone innocent ever trouble to delete entries a call log?

PIs are expensive and I doubt you'd find anything out if they couldn't have access to a job site. You could consider leaving town alone, say to visit relatives for a weekend, and having a PI watch the house while you are away. Presumably OW drives and can arrange a get together.

You implied that 'some people' knew about his A. Any of them reliable enough to approach for a status update?

Do you have any chance to attend corporate social functions on his arm (e.g., holiday parties, picnics)? Well worth doing regardless of what is going on.

- WG


BH 40, Married: 2002, Discovered affairs: Fall 2005, Divorced: Spring 2008

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Woundedgentleman,

Thannk you for taking so much time to address my concern.

No, the OW does NOT drive.

If he left his present positon we would not be poorer, we would be DESTITUTE.

COBRA is expensive, way, way ,way beyond our means.

As I said, he has been looking for another job since we got married. He looks CONSTANTLY! He has a disability that makes it VERY difficult for him to get another job. Again, 75% of Americans with this disabilty are UNEMPLOYED. The fact that he HAS a job at all and one that provides excellent insurance benefits is NOTHING short of a miracle.

It's very hard for most people to believe that a disabled person could have THAT much trouble finding another job. But that IS the case. Not just for him, but for millions of other disabled people who want to work. And work at GOOD jobs, with GOOD benefits. They don't just wnat "meaningful, productive" work.

I do not think HE would have ANY trouble re-connecting with the OW if he wanted to. SHE can not as easily re-connect with him. I merely mentioned that they have no incidental contact.

I am "choosing" to let him keep working in a position that provides him(therefore US) with various benefits that are NECESSARY.

I am unsure as to who does know about the A at his workplace. I suspect that there is one of his co-workers. I can not approach him. It would definitely backfire. NO one that my H works with has ever said ANYTHING CERTAIN about having knowledge. At this point it is better that way.

The only other person I am sure knows is a co-worker of the OW. She actually acted as an interpretor for them(yuck!) because the OW speaks virtually no English. My H also has no incidental contact with her for the same reasons he has none with the OW. Again, I know THAT for a fact.

The only trail my H left during his year-long A was on his cell-phone. No paper, no credit card things. Nothing. No paper of any kind.

I was an idiot for that year because the evidence was right in front of me, on the cell phone. I missed it. I trusted him. I used to go through his drawers and his wallet looking for evidence. When I didn't find anything I would be SO frustrated. I tried to tell myself I should be happy I didn't find anything, but my gut knew the truth even if my head couldn't quite get it.

I check his cell phone all the time. In front of him and when he is not around. We do have Caller ID. Her numbers are restricted numbers. No calls from her in a long time(over a year).

No social functions. I do always make sure that I have a bit of friendly conversation with any co-worker who answers the phone when I call. That way they at least know who I am.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your response. I am not trying to be difficult or defensive. I am just looking to see if anyone has any OTHER ideas for snooping that are outside the realm of "usual".

Please understand too that I mean it clearly when I say that I would EXPOSE and DUMP HIM no matter what it would mean for his job situation if there was another A. I am hoping that I am just reading this wrong and that he is being an ass, but NOT an adulterer.

Thank you,
WH2LE


WH2LE

BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007
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WH2LE,

I know what it is like to live with a pathological liar. It drove me nuts trying to figure out whether a lie did or did not bear on the affair or was just habit.

BTW, I would somehow work on communicating your need for honesty. He may/may not lie and give false reassurances. But you should at least try to articulate to him the damage to your marriage and pain you face when he is untruthful. (The goal is simply to communicate about yourself -- that's part of you being O&H.)

Do you have access to his job site? If not, then I am confused why you think you know things about OW and OW's interpreter "as fact". You know your WH lies to you, so anything you can't verify independently must be viewed with some skepticism.

What has he done to put you at ease about the affair?

Do you merely check the cell phone device, or do you audit the call record on his phone using records (online or invoices in the mail) from the cellular provider? I ask because when I confronted my WW with evidence of her affair behavior she would make a cosmetic (not real) change and she became a 'smarter cheater'. For example, after I showed her calls to OM on her phone she'd much more regularly delete information from the cell phone, but still call. Invoices didn't lie.

You seem more concerned about a different A than the one with OW firing back up.

BTW, this is a lot of work for you, but you could start trying to track down any unknown number on the caller ID. Start with the numbers that call more than once. I did this for a time, though it gets out of control at some point. BTW, why not change your home phone number? OW has it...

- WG


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WG,

Thank you again for your response.

I am quite communicative with my H about the damage done by his dishonesty. The problem is HIS willingness to actually believe that I mean it. If, in time, I become convinced that he does NOT think I mean it, then I will obviously have a decision to make.

My H has difficulty with empathy. It sucks for me. Sometimes I think I am seeing improvement and then something happens and it all seems to be gone.

I know for a fact that my H does not have "incidental contact" for 2 reasons. And neither of them have to do with what my H tells me. One, I know exactly how the access system works. HE has access to her, SHE does not have access to him. Two, I know the company she works with. Without giving away info that I did not want to, I was able to find out HOW their access works in that building. It's one of the FEW facts I know for certain.
HE can certainly find her. But again, "incidental contact" is virtually impossible.

One of my big problems is that my H does not want to do what is necessary to put my mind at ease. He simply refuses to believe that it is necessary to put forth a "truly heroic effort" to fix things. He honestly believes that "in time" I will just feel better. I could say more but anything else will come off as a DJ and that is not my intent with this thread.

I check all cell phone records regularly, on-line and on paper.
Any numbers I don't recognize I investigate.

Actually, when I first realized that my H was making a LOT of calls to a certain number, he lied(of course!) about whose it was. I DID investigate anyway, but came up empty handed. So, using call-blocking I called the number myself. My H said it was a male friend. Sure enough, a male answered the phone and I hung up. In reality, the OW had a VERY masculine voice.

I have NO problem with snooping and watching and tracking down information. It's a consequence of his actions.

It's just that in this case, I am stymied and looking for new ideas. There may not be any.

Also, my concern about a new A may just be panic because he does not give me what I need on a regular basis to keep my mind at ease. I know this.

I don't feel it's necessary to change our home phone. She has not called in WELL over a year. It's one of the few things that does put my mind at ease. IF she DOES call, it might very well be the thing that tells me what I need to know. Near the end last year, she was calling and hanging up regularly.

We did change his cell # quickly though.

WH2LE


WH2LE

BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007

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