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Oh yeah sorry one more thing. Does it matter who I choose to be the intermediary? Does he need to like this person? Of course I don't want to choose and enemy of his but he basically doesn't like anyone right now especially church friends since he was an associate Pastor. HE mocks church stuff now.
So who should I choose?


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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I don't know the answers to your questions about intermediaries. I think you want to hand the PBL to him in person, but I'm not sure.

I'm a little worried that you're planning the PBL but maybe ignoring the Plan A stuff. You've got some really experienced ppl posting to you so maybe I'm wrong. I just wanna suggest that you make sure you've got a *great* *plan* for Plan A, too... Plan A isn't just being nice and it certainly isn't being a doormat. You need a plan. What ENs to meet. What LBs to get rid of. What will you do if she calls his cell. What will you do if he tries to push your buttons or pick a fight (which he might do, to reinforce how he's right to leave you).


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Point well taken. Will go over the book to see what his EN are. I'm not super sure but I'm sure I can get close.

Will take tips too.


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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For someone who was going to do a longer Plan A, I would advise calm confrontation on the contact. For you, doing a shorty, I would advise you to ignore it. You don't have any time to waste on something that will turn out unpleasant. His day of reckoning is coming on swiftly, so you don't have to worry about him "getting away with it".

Try a reverse number lookup. You can find listed #'s and addresses on switchboard.com for free. It may be worth the $15 or so for Intelius or a similar search, since some of them give names and addresses of relatives and friends.

As to an intermediary, what is most important is that the person is able to be neutral, that is, they don't react to the drama from WH, and they don't send any of it your way. Completely calm and professional, even when provoked.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Also, I would not recommend delivering the PBL in person. Too much chance for drama. Let him read it and digest it, and be ready to ignore the attempts to break your NC.

Since you want to be really sure he gets it, maybe there is a friend who would be willing to take it to him in person. I am very much in favor of giving the OW a copy, too.

Still, whoever said you need to be focusing on your Plan A right now was right. (Bad short term memory, lol.) When you have your Plan B guns lines up it will be so hard to stop yourself from shooting them immediately. Know that the info is here waiting for you, and don't start working on your letter till you get back from Disneyland.

That will leave you time for just a few more good interactions with him once you get back from the trip.

Oh, and if she dares to call him and he takes the call in front of you, make sure she can hear you laughing and being lively. OW's hate that! laugh


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Ok gonna focus on Plan A. Yes its short plan A. So main focus of my 2 week Plan A is show him lots of love and changes right?

Since we were together since 8th grade what he said was I have only slept with you my whole life and I couldn't take it anymore.
Now he's, I think a functioning alcoholic and angry and yucky. The OW is yucky too. She has been divorced alread ahs 3 kids her 2nd kid who is 14 she had to ship off since she is in trouble with police all the time. From what I understand she is a bar whore. From Associate Pastor to cheating with a bar wh*re?? naughty

I do have his address of where him and the OW live so I don't really need to get it.

But I'm wondering if I mail a letter to her he may intercept it. BUT I do have the OW's cell phone number since we have the same cell plans and I can see everywhere he calls.

He doesn't have contact with anyone. He has cut off most of it. All our friends were from church as I said he was an associate Pastor who lost his mind. crazy

so for obvious reasons he doesn't maintain contact with many people. He has seen our friends in July when he visited the kids here and everyone was very loving and kind to him, but it's hard he's not that man anymore.
So in this case should I give it to him in person?

And should I call the OW since I know her # and give her my intentions? If so what on earth do I say to her, other than you make me sick LOL J/K


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Ok I'll post my Plan B letter FYI, and then I will also post the letter I sent OW's parents which really really pissed her off. I sent it to them as I was concerned I wouldnt be able to inform her with out Flick stopping it first. Feel free to modify it to suit you.
Lil

Quote
Dear Flick,
This is the most difficult letter that I’ve ever written in my life.

I have been doing a lot of thinking in the 3 weeks since you ‘came home’. I have finally come to some conclusions.
I still have feelings for you that range from great affection to love. This surprises me considering the amount of hurt I have felt during the last 6 months. I guess this proves to me that I did have a large love balance with you. It is because of these feelings that I still have that I have come to realise some things.
I would like to retain these good feelings and memories of you, I do not wish to grow to hate you.
So despite the fact that really I do not want to do this, the sensible part of me dictates that I have let you come home too early, too easily, and have not stood up for myself. I have allowed you to cross boundaries I shouldn’t have. I have a strong commitment to my marriage, but not at the expense of my self worth. I want to stay a joyful person.

I want you to know that I am truly sorry for my part in creating the environment that helped to make this affair possible. I pursued my career without understanding my primary responsibility as your wife. I deeply regret that I did not give you the time, attention, and affection that you desired to be happy. I hope that one day you will forgive me so we can create a new future together.

Over these last few months, I have been learning what a marriage should be and I’ve tried to show you this during the times that we’re together and I have learnt alot. It’s like a light bulb came on for me and I think I know what’s needed to make our marriage a happy, loving and supportive place to be. I have made so many changes. I believe I have shown to you that I can and am willing to make these changes. But the biggest thing I have learned is that there isn’t anybody or anything as important to me as you are. I truly believe you are the man I asked God for, and that He sent you to me. However, every time I see you or talk to you now, my heart breaks because I want so much for things to be different. I want more than you are willing to give to me right now.

I am confident that we can overcome our problems and that we can start a new life together meeting each other’s needs so that we can both be happy. Even if it involves moving away from dairying so that we can spend more time with each other, and enjoying our two wonderful girls, spending time doing new things together and with friends, making memories.

I’ve tried so hard to stay connected to you even under extremely difficult circumstances & I treasure every contact that we have. However, this situation has become too excruciating for me to endure. Knowing that you want someone else is tearing me to pieces. This is unbearable. Also I know you are still seriously grieving Fred. I want to help you with that, and be supportive; it was a very sad time for me too. I regret that we both couldn't have been of more comfort to each other

So I’m asking you to please understand that I need to protect my feelings for you so that if you decide to give our marriage a real chance, I will still love you and want to try again. The only way I can think of to do this is to end all contact with you until OW is no longer a part of our marriage and you are truly willing to work on it. This kills me because this is not what I want. I haven’t made this decision to punish you; it’s to protect my feelings for you and our chances at a real reconciliation. If I carry on like this, there will be nothing left. I almost sent you a letter similar to this after Rarotonga, but you said you wanted to come home. I should have done it anyway. These last 3 weeks have been very bittersweet.

Please do not call, e-mail, or text unless you have permanently separated from OW and have decided that you want to work on rebuilding our marriage with me. I don’t want your relationship with the girls to suffer more so I will be as flexible as possible with visitation of them, however you can’t have contact with me during pick up and drop off times. I would also like any of the regular communications between us to be handled through a mutual friend or relative of your choice, such as your mum, Nikki or Vikki D***

It is not that I don't want you in my life, I want this more than anything, but I want all of you… and I want you all to myself. Sharing you is just too painful. I hope that one day you will decide to come back so we can begin again. I want to grow old with you.

Love Lil

Quote
My name is Lildoggie , I am WH wife.

I am writing as part of a recovery plan that I am in regarding this situation. I am not writing to stir or for revenge. My other reason for writing is to help you gain a better understanding of the facts of this situation.

WH and OW appear to have started a relationship of sorts around New Year while both were employed at the X. This turned into a physical relationship around the middle of February. I was aware something was not right but had put it down to WH recently finding out about his father’s health, and the stress of waiting to see if Xwould be keeping him on as a permanent member of staff. As all marriages have up and down times, I believed it would pass.
I discovered the affair after 3 weeks of suspicion on March 9th. It came as an immense shock to me as WH was still living with myself and our children and had not indicated that he was unhappy in the marriage, just life in general. The children and I still love WH and wish him to become part of our family again. WH has indicated that if it were not for OW he would be prepared to return home and work on our issues. He did not move out from home until I discovered the relationship.

While WH has been living in city and caring for FIL, we have been in almost daily contact. He spent a long weekend here shortly after moving there, and I have had 2 one-week stays with him. We have discussed many things. I now believe we have no insurmountable problems, they can be fixed. During this time we have frequently been intimate. I need to tell you of my continuing love and desire for reconciliation with WH. When you get this letter WH, the children and I will be on a family holiday in country x

I understand that OW has bi-polar, something that can make a person emotionally and mentally fragile. I do not believe that OW and WH relationship is in OW best interests. I realise that she is a consenting adult, but I think that you would wish to see your daughter happy and settled. Unfortunately, I now find WH being sometimes untruthful to me, so it is probably both to OW and me. If he is not being entirely honest in what he tells me, I wonder what WH has told OW, or if she is now set up to be badly hurt.

My parents too, wish to see me happy. I wish to see my children happy. We have a 16-year-old daughter and an 11-year-old daughter who is mildly disabled. It breaks my heart to see them feel they need to comfort me. I also grieve to see them losing faith in their father’s love.

I am hoping that you will discuss this letter and the points and issues I have brought up with OW so she has a better understanding of what she is involved with.

I am happy to give you my contact information if there is anything you wish to discuss with me. Otherwise, I am very sorry that this letter is necessary.


PS. Keeping with openness and honesty, I will be emailing a copy of this letter to WH for his perusal after the holiday.

After sending that I also ended up needing to send a reexposure email. If you want to see that one, email me.


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What is an reexposure?


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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I had to re-expose.
Flick came home for about 3 weeks but I discovered he was still in contact with OW so I booted him out and re-exposed to everyone via e-mail as I really had had enuff by that stage.
About 2 weeks later he came home again and this time is actually really making an effort and has been NC for 10 weeks.


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Wow! That's encouraging. Sometimes I think I get so focused on want H back then I think for a minute gosh its probably going to be harder when H comes home. Although in August when he moved in with her that was a huge blow. I've only(funny "only") been in this whole mess for a little over 5 months. {{sigh}}

Mine kinda did that. He told us and left. He came home 3 days later. Broke it off with her (i listened) and was home for 2 weeks. The 1st few days were great the kids and I thought we made it. But I had not found this website and book yet.

So, during the 1 weeks he started with the old behavior of getting angry and drinking heavily(withdrawal symptoms). I asked him if he went back to her he said no. By the end of the 2weeks he had yelled at the kids and I said that's it get out. After that It wasn't until I had him followed and pictures taken did he admit.

Just curious how long did the whole thing take from exposure through the final coming home to work take?


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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whew, lets see, salient dates would be I found out march 9th, about the A, it had started as a EA around xmas. March 13th he said he wasnt coming back to me. Moved to wellington to care for FIL in april. I found MB a couple of weeks later after being in an instinctive plan A. He came to visit, I went to visit, I was forbidden to tell OW we were had started sleeping together. FIL died and I went to funeral, we went as a family to rarotonga using tickets bought at new years and I sent the letter to OW's parents so he couldnt do anything till we got back. OW had a sh*t fit at him went he came back to the country so he came back to me but started contacting her within a week. I found out just after he went to england to see his sister and gave him the PBL, and then re-exposed via email. He came back to the country and about 3 days later begged me to take him back stating he would "do whatever it takes". She was pretty horrible I gather.
I think the whole thing lasted about 8 months and both times exposure response was about 2 weeks. My plan B was very short.....about 16 days.
I have been one of the lucky ones.

Quote
Dear all,

I am sorry for the impersonality of this email, however I was quite distressed to inform everyone the first time and I find that repetition has not made it any easier.

WH and I are once again separated.

While he has been in England he has not upheld the one concrete boundary I requested of him, he has continued to contact his affair partner. Indeed, I have discovered he never stopped contact, even when he came home.

I find myself having too much self-respect to be dragged into another intolerable situation, and so have requested that until he can completely separate himself from her, that he removes himself from his family. The girls are already hurt and confused by his behaviour, they do not need to be exposed to more.

I am still willing to reconcile and work on our issues, but it would appear he would rather fix the relationship with her. I feel that I have worked hard to get us to this point and am disappointed by this outcome.

Again, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I would like to thank all those who have supported me with prayers and a friendly shoulder.

Love Lil


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So main focus of my 2 week Plan A is show him lots of love and changes right?

Yes... but not in a doormat or smothering way. Show him how awesome and confident you are. And you have to show him love in the way he will hear it.

For most men, Admiration is a big EN. lil did a great Ad. program. Also, make sure you look terrific, you are cheerful (even if you have to chew the inside of your cheek!) and the kids are neat and clean and well-mannered... or whatever he values.

Another huge EN is RC. Yay Disneyland, here you come! hurray

Do you know about the 5 Love Languages? That's also a useful way of looking at it. If he gives and receives love through Acts of Service, but you're trying to show him love by gifts, then you aren't achieving your goal.

If his biggest complaint was that he needed variety in his women... think what would you think of something drastic like a new hairstyle, maybe even color?

Since he isn't around 24/7 be sure to build a support group. Not just for crying, but also for fun socializing. Be able to say things like "The other day Sally and I went bowling and she said ..." or something, KWIM? Have interesting things to say; these often come from having talked to different kinds of ppl. If he's interested in current events watch the news; sports, watch ESPN. And so on.

So he's gone crazy now. What did he like about you, what did he fall in love with, back when he was sober and sane?

Plan something to say if he tries to bait you. A saying that I never can remember in the heat of the moment is, when someone is being a complete poopiehead but you are too much of a lady to get down in the poopie with them, is to say, "Bless yer heart!" very graciously, with a smile (not sarcasm), very generous and kind expression; it's satisfying enough just to know that it's code for "You're being a poopiehead" to all genteel ladies. The person you're saying it to doesn't need to know that.


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Hi Jayne laugh *waves*

T2L you havent yet said what you think are his main En's, so going by HNHN guys 'normally' want SF, RC, AD, DS, PA.
SF could be covered by Neaks clevage suggestion, short skirt and bending over in front of him or even school bus's smiling and leg stroking thing LOL.
RC, well disney would cover that. AD, tell him how wondeful and clever he is at fixing your car, and anything you can find to praise up, even historical AD works, WH's very rarely notice the difference between historical and current AD. DS, kids and house to be showen at their best whenever he's there. PA..look like a Goddess!!! smell nice, wear your sexy-ist stuff, be attractive in your head as well as your body.

The flip side is stop any and all love busting behavuiour. No AO, DJ, SD, D, IB or AH


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You guys rock! Ok I read the SAA and I have the book His needs her needs. Should I read through that?

He comes Saturday to do that car work. I'm not sure if it'll be awkward for me to get super close physically as he has been so angry and stuff. You think he'll be on to the plan??

I want to call the OW and tell her instead of a letter because he may check the mail and intercept it. I would like to also include that he went with us to Disneyland because he may tell her he'll be gone for a work trip. I did read in SAA last night that the cases in the book did notify the OW/OM of his/her intentions to wait for marriage.

OY YEAH he said he may be there Saturday late working on the car. This is a huge one, do I let him stay the night on the couch? I'm not ok with sexual contact yet as I had to get checked for STD's when this was exposed to me(wasn't that nice of him) and this woman is as I said before a bar Wh*re and God only knows what she is like and I have children. But do I let him stay?

He said that I didn't listen which may have some truth but he was one of those guys that you cannot agree to disagree. I had to agree with him and not have my own thoughts. I think it hurt his self esteem for me to have my own thoughts. I think self esteem is a big one for his because he would always make me feel dumb.

You guys are my street team! Hooray! So unload....I'm gonna be ready when Saturday comes!


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Why do you need to contact the OW? Did I miss something? Personally, I would leave her out of it. A marriage is between husband and wife only. He's already invited her in. IMO, contacting her would be equivalent to accepting her presence there. Of course I could be wrong, but that's my take.

Count me as another vote to move into Plan B asap. You've been in limbo way to long. I guess because of the upcoming b'day if you can handle Plan Aing a little more it could be worthwhile. But I'd be concerned that your WH has already become accustomed to cake eating.

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You think he's cake eating? I hardly have had any contact with him except via email and maybe 1 or 2 times for a whole month. And when he visited the kids at home in July I was gone or not available. So I don't know how many needs I could have met over the last 5 months.

I'm hoping to be in Plan B by 2 weeks. HE seems glad to come do the things at the house since I have not allowed him to help me at all since he left in May.

He also seems very excited and surprised I am considering the Disneyland trip on Thursday next week.


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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I think he's getting some sort of kick out of taking care of your car. Probably some sort of ego boost. My Wstbx actually bragged about how "well off financially" he left me. Didn't say a thing about robbing me blind first. Even his brother, who had just had his D-day on his WW 2 months prior to this and was at the beginning of the roller coaster - actually bought that crap. Wstbx stopped by several times for months to do little chores - like clean the gutters and general stuff. He was also casing my place to see if I'd left anything unlocked so he could steal it, but that's not what he told people.

So yes, I believe your WH is cake eating. He's getting his SF from OW all the while believe he's taking great care of you. What a hero! Believe me, that's what he thinks he is. puke

Edited to add, he's getting the same ego boost out of disneyland. What a great ex he must be to take such good care of his former family he even takes them to disney. puke puke

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I see. I do think he does think that way but I have not done a Plan A. I think he has the need to be a hero.

I basically have not let come over, don't talk on the phone and email only if I have to so I haven't been meeting to many needs for him.

So I figure go into Plan A for 2 weeks then straight into the Plan B.

Have you been able to read some of the advise at the beginning of the post? Some seem to suggest it's not so much cake-eating and many suggest a very short Plan A is necessary.


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Since the B'day and disney are around the corner, you might as well go for it. But don't drag it out a minute longer. Get your plan down on paper. Use a calendar. Know exactly when you are going to do what. Then stick to it.

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Yes he's cake-eating. But she hasn't yet done a Plan A, she's been basically doing an almost Plan B which is worse than Plan A or Plan B. that is what has allowed the cake-eating.

If you really want to save the M you must get some Plan A in there before going to Plan B. Disneyland is perfect.

Time is so short, if you have time to read HNHN great, but if not you can find everything you need here online by following the links under Basic Concepts. Here's the order that you want to do things:

1- Eliminate all LBs. To help you figure out what LBs you commit, read the LB section and fill out the LBQ as you think he would do it.

2- Meet whatever ENs you can. Again, you can read the EN section and take the ENQ as if you are him.

3- Think about anything else he may have complained about or asked you to do, that you may have missed in the LBQ and ENQ. Figure out how to make those changes.

4- Come here for ideas and a plan for doing steps 1-3.

5- Plan an awesome awesome last encounter with him. That would prolly be Disneyland, but if you could arrange some one-on-one time, like an intimate dinner, that would be great. This is going to be the last interaction you have with him, so make it good. When he doesn't have access to talking to you at all, that is going to be the freshest memory he has; that is going to be compared to the OW when suddenly he's turning to her to get all his ENs met.

6- Plan your PB details and write your PBL.

?- You may want to consider exposing the affair somewhere in that list. With such a short timeframe, I dunno, ask the pros.

You want to get through steps 1-4 at least, before your next encounter - Saturday?


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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