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Great thanks need all I can get this week.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Another thing that may be helpful. I forget who originally posted (sorry, if the person reads here, pelase know it wasnt intentional) but I copied it when i was in PB. These are my suggestions:
DO A GREAT PLAN A: Steve H. called it MY PLAN. I tried to figure out what ENs that I was not addressing in my marriage. I worked on these problems. Making these changes was mainly good for me as a person but it also has been an essential ingredient in my marriage today. These changes have become a part of me so that now that my H is back it is not forced. It is natural for me to go to the gym, watch what I eat, cook dinner for the family, consider his point of view, give him attention, etc. These are some of the things that I was not doing prior to D-Day. Of course, I am not perfect. The fact that I am doing enough of these things compensates for my weak points. What I have not been able to accomplish continues to be our primary marital problems. The point is WORK ON YOUR PLAN.
ACCEPT THAT YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED TO GO TO PLAN B: Folks on here told me this but I did not want to believe it. For my H, the A was too addictive for PLAN A to be enough. But true to the Harley text, he has told me PLAN A caused him to think about me a lot while he was with her. Even if he did not want to, he remembered the me that I was during my PLAN A.
THE MORE TIME WS SPENDS WITH THE OP, THE BETTER: This is what I'm repeatedly hearing from FWS. Prior to PLAN B, they mainly met on the the weekends, maintaining the fantasy. When I was out of the picture, he really got to know her. Luckily in my case, she seems to be a nutty, alcoholic. He can't find too many good things to say about her as a real person. She was lots of fun but day-to-day she was not able to do the job of wifey that he needs to make it. Add my SF, physical attractiveness, domestic stuff during PLAN A, he's in love with me again. She's not meeting any needs. He's left addicted to her, hoping and wishing for the drug to take effect again. Let me know if I'm not making this clear because it is an important point.
WS DOES NEED A ROAD MAP BACK HOME (as suggested by Espoir and MM): This is the transition piece that we have been talking about in my thread towards the end of the A. My WS stated that he wanted to end the A, come home months ago but needed to feel that there was a way out FOR HIM . If there was not a way out, he thinks he would have given up and just stayed in his mess. I would imagine that the WAY OUT will look different for different people. For him, he wanted a nice place to stay. A refuge continues to be important to him. Also, he is very proudful and needed to be sure that he would not be humiliated by me, my family or the kids. This all can be spelled out specifically in one or more PB letters. I wrote a couple of letters, I think. My FWS referred back to those. Also, I opened up lines of communication in the end regarding my terms for reconciliation.
HANGING IN THERE WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER PERSON: Regardless of the outcome of this for me, I am happier with myself. It's unbelievable to me that I am saying this. I am a stronger, more self-confident person. So even if my H goes back to the OW, God forbid, I now will not take it as a rejection of me. I know that I did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage. Now it's on him. If he leaves, it will be his loss. He knows this about me now and has grown to respect me.
These are my thoughts for now. Hope this helps somebody.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday 
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I just did the Emotional Needs Questionnaire at the back of HNHN. I answered all of them as if I was him.
It was a little hard because after the alien invasion he changed a a whole lot so I tried to answer it from the mindset of before he left and I found out.
I hope I got as close as I could, it was harder than I thought it would be. Well I know for sure he has no need for Honesty and Openness.
I did fair in providing these needs, lacked in a few areas. Sexually could have iniated more. Admiration could have been more, used to do sweet stuff all the time just slacked a little over the last few years. Conversation. Not sure what to think about that one, he says that I didn't listen to him. But what do you do when your spouse thinks that unless you agree with him your not conversating? He didn't like agreeing to disagree and for some reason if I had my own thoughts on things it was like it would hit him almost in a self esteem area or he'd take it personal. I don't know, I think as a couple you can still be in love but have your own identities and thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong. Domestic support he loved, I did pretty good running the house. Attractiveness i do well at too. But the OW is not a class lady, but a trashy party icky thing and she's fat. I wonder if it's mid life crisis sometimes. He's really into tanning now. He said Affair wasn't a look thing so I didn't quite know how to answer the questionnaire because pre Affair he was not into heavy set women and made fun of it.
Starting with the top need and descending in order of importance.
#1 Sexual Fulfillment
#2 Admiration
#3 Conversation
#4 Domestic Support
#5 Attractiveness of Spouse
#6 Recreational Companionship
#7 Affection
#8 Financial Support
#9 Family commitment
#10 Honesty And Openness
Feedback??
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Loved that thanks for sharing it. Send what ever you like I'm gonna inhale everything the next few days.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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I bumped Schoolbus's thread for you, the last posting by her actually talks about C between spouses. the first few are on body language.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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I was wondering. I think my H affair started as an Emotional affair that went to physical. Does that make it harder to reconcile?
My guess is that since she was a coworker, he would call into the office and schedule appointments and the conversations went longer and longer. I think her life was a mess as is she and he tried to help her. When he 1st came 3 days after telling the kids and I he said that he felt bad and responsible and that she didn't anymore in her life(yeah as if me and the kids did). Of course I had to ask him to leave after 2 week because he went angry again and was screaming at the kids-found out later he had gone back to her.
He said to me after notifying me of the A that he couldn't break it off that he had a connection with her. I then said well you have a connection with me. He says I let that go and you know I have a hard time connecting and bonding with people and I bonded with her.
Just wondering if affairs that started out emotional that went to physical can recover too.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Admiration could have been more, used to do sweet stuff all the time just slacked a little over the last few years. You have TONS of opportunity to fill his need for admiration while he's around this weekend. Admire the job he's done, admire how much better X looks since he cleaned it up, how much nicer Y works since he repaired it, how much you've been worrying about Z and what a relief it is that he's taken care of it. I think this type of admiration is important to him or he wouldn't be wanting to come over and work around the house. Conversation. Not sure what to think about that one, he says that I didn't listen to him. But what do you do when your spouse thinks that unless you agree with him your not conversating? He didn't like agreeing to disagree and for some reason if I had my own thoughts on things it was like it would hit him almost in a self esteem area or he'd take it personal. You've said twice (at least) that you can't converse with him because every time you fail to agree with him he takes it personally. This is very important because you listed conversation as one of his top ENs. You absolutely have to find a way to meet that EN because it's so high on his list. The way he takes disagreements personally is almost certainly due to the way in which you are disagreeing with him. Read up on Love Busters and think very carefully about how you disagree with him. Do you engage in Disrespectful Judgments? That is, does the way in which you disagree leave ANY possibility that he thinks you're finding him lacking, stupid, incompetent? I'm betting you can change the way in which you disagree so that it doesn't affect him so negatively. Give us some examples and we can give you ideas on new ways to approach disagreements. It is imperative that during your time together you meet his top ENs *and* eliminate all Love Busters. Someone said that trying to meet ENs while LBing is like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in it. You work and work and work at the ENs but one little LB undoes it ALL.
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Point well taken very good I will look at the love busters to see where I can improve. Thanks for the great information.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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I just read over Disrespectful judgments and feel this is the highest area I need to work on. I am definitely nervous at really any communications as he has a critical side to him and told daughter he is watching me very closely(as I f I didn't have nervous tendencies before).
I'm not even sure how to go about it or if we'll even have any time to converse when he is here on Friday as he'll be doing household chores. When he's working he does not like to be bothered. Disneyland is probably going to be the best place.
I'm not even sure of what to talk about as we have hardly had any talk's for 5 months, well at least none that was worth noting. Mostly his rage filled emails blaming for everything under the sun. I have given him apologies as best I could but it did not stop the angry emails, I'm guessing mostly since he's drinking now.
So strange how you can be married to your 8th grade boyfriend and be together for so long and now its awkward and I have no clue what to talk about as our lives are on different tracks. At almost 40 now he has started smoking, drinks heavily to kill the guilt(is what he said) goes to bars and clubs. I am full time mom of 2, football mom who spends a good deal of time at the field and games, and very involved in my church in leadership capacities(which H used to be as well). What on earth are we going to talk about???
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Talk about what fun you're having at Disney, what a great thing it is to see the kids so happy. Throw in some admiration.
Do you both read? Have a favorite television show? Talk about good books you've read recently that he'd like, or how you can't believe some character did something in the show.
Talk about something fun/interesting you did with a girlfriend or family member; ask him about interesting things he's done lately with the skank ho (okay maybe not that last bit).
Talk about stuff the kids are doing at school. If there are any sports activities, concerts, etc. reassure him that he'd be welcome there.
Do you have friends in the neighborhood? Catch him up on what's going on in the 'hood.
Talk about some great new food you've tried recently.
Hmm, now that I think about it, all that stuff is just to fill the gaps. Mostly, listen to him and ask him open ended questions about whatever topic he brings up. Show interest and encourage him to continue. He'll feel like his EN for conversation is being met if he's the one talking and you're attentive, encouraging, and participating in his conversation.
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Oh that's great stuff. Very do-able and practical. Thanks so much. I think I'll think of several things before the trip in case it gets quiet.
We are so removed from each other I can't imagine being able to implement any affection. Do you? Or is that not good a thing to do since we haven't been near each other or in contact that much?
I just got the volunteer schedule for my son's football team. This week I'm up. Soooo, I just sent an email to H playing dumb(well actually I have no idea what to do, they are dragging this chain with 2 posts up and down the field-totally clueless to football LOL) and I say its my turn and I would LOVE (and son too) If he would do it for me. I say there is no pressure but it would be great.
If he accepts I can thank him for saving me!(He really is too because I don't know what to do.)
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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We are so removed from each other I can't imagine being able to implement any affection. Do you? Or is that not good a thing to do since we haven't been near each other or in contact that much? Meeting a top EN is always a good idea. I wouldn't waste too many cycles on this because affection probably isn't very high on your H's list of ENs - you ranked it 7th when you tried to rank them for him. If the opportunity comes up to touch his arm or shoulder and it feels natural, then do. Or touch his hair or lean your head against him. If not, no biggie. Or if you make advances and he shrinks back, don't take it personally. He's totally NOT himself right now. GREAT move on the football chain thing. I really like that! Even if he says no, he'll remember that you invited him and that you looked up to him and admired his knowledge of sports. Right now you're only out to meet ENs and eliminate LBs. Don't worry at all about if he reacts or how he reacts. In fact, usually waywards don't react (visibly) to Plan A at all, other than angry flare-ups because they're feeling guilty and they don't like that. Rest assured your Plan A is showing him that you realize changes are needed and that you're willing to make those changes. Every time you meet an EN it whittles away just a little bit at his self-talk about how "She never does X, she always treats me like Z". You're ensuring that his memories and images of you are positive.
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Displays of affection, if done, need to be the hit-and-run style. Make it quick and move right on, appearing as if you didn't even notice if he responded or not.
If he is affectionate, respond and pull back. Should he ask why you pulled away, grin flirtatiously (or leer, lol) and answer, "I didn't want you to think I was getting the wrong idea."
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Well he can't go do the football thing because of work but I'm glad I put it out there.
If there are any absolutes for Plan A'ers feel free to unload especially I will only be in Plan A for about 2 weeks. Or anyone who did real creative or great Plan A stuff send that too.
We will only have 2 occasions to see each other before I go dark. Do you think I should try and schedule him for any other time, like a dinner invitation or do you think he will think I'm up to something.
I'm guessing at this point he thinks that I finally have caved and i am going to accept a life with the me and the OW. Cake anyone?
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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This is just my opinion, but since you are so limited in time and interactions, I think you should just do one, maybe two short and fun family times after Disneyland.
If you were doing a longer Plan A, then you should cram in as much couple time as possible. If you somehow had the opportunity for a 2-of-you dinner before Disneyland, I would definitely do it.
But family time with you at the center, looking good and being adorable, to me is the most important when every Plan A second counts.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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I should have went into Plan A about 5 months ago in hindsight.
Do you think I should extend for an extra week instead of 2 weeks so to have just another opportunity or two to be able to schedule more time with H? Since I haven't done either plan since April when I discovered and had only just eliminated most contact with him so as to not subject myself to his lash outs.
I don't want to extend if it'll make him cake eat more but I thought maybe an extra time or 2 together would help for when I go into Plan B because all he'll have to remember is the 2 times in the next 2 weeks.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Ideas:
For Admiration, lil would text or email her WH something she admired about him, at least once a day while he was living outside the home.
If an out-and-out compliment would sound strange, you could put it as something like,
"Boy, I am having such a hard time keeping the yard looking nice! You always did such a good job. I never told you how much I admire your ability to make things look so nice."
Or something.
Also, the hit-and-run Affection, that's great.
Thanks to lil for bumping SB's thread. Read it, there's awesome stuff in there.
Great work with getting the kids involved.
Re. the problem with Conversation cus you feel he just wants you to agree: I'm glad you are looking into DJs. Those things are sneaky, I'll tell you what. Something you may think of as just stating the "truth" can be a DJ if:
- you think it's a fact but it's really an opinion, and other opinions are equally valid;
- you are right, it is a fact but you state it in a manner sending the message you think he's stupid for not seeing the obvious;
you may e right, you may not be, but you state your side and refuse to consider his side.
Ok he may be doing this too, but you still don't want to DJ or LB. If Conversation is important to him, and he feels "connected" when you guys agree, try to find some way to agree. There is probably some element of truth to his opinion, right? E.g.:
You: The sky is blue.
Him: No the sky is red.
You: Well yes, I was forgetting sunsets! You are right, sometimes the sky *is* red!
Ok that's an exaggeration but you get the idea.
One last thing: most folks are telling you to hurry to Plan B. Neak is suggesting you do one or two things after Disneyland before going to PB. I agree.
Do NOT go to Plan B until you are good and ready. Until you can't tolerate Plan A any longer, and you have a PLAN and a PBL. You DO NOT want to go back and forth between Plan A and Plan B. Once you go to PB, that's it - totally dark, nothing, nada - until and unless he meets your requirements.
me - 47  H - 39  married 2001 DS 8a  DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Wow I miss a few days on MB and I am sooo happy to see that you have been getting some great advice.
One thing that I am not sure if anyone has said yet is that you need to make these changes real. Don't just view plan A as something you do to win your H back, look at it as a way to make changes and improvements in yourself.
Here is a way of thinking that I began in plan A and try to keep with me. Treat your H like you would a new boyfriend, you know, dress sexy, do your hair, get a mani/pedi, keep the house looking good, be happy to see him, don't talk about anything serious, don't have any expectations, just enjoy the moment!
Have fun at Disneyland. Halloween time is fun, the park is decorated so cute, oh man if I wasn't going to the Angels game tonight I would be heading for Disney!
Try not to be nervous and try not to put too much pressure on yourself. Just remember to enjoy yourself! It won't matter how close your WH looks at you, if you are really enjoying yourself he will see that.
BW 38 (me)
FWH 42
Married 7 years
DD 6
SD 15
11-2006 H said he wanted a divorce and walked out
3-2007 I told H I wanted him back
3-2007 to 4-2007 D-day's
4-2007 H moved back in for good
Today-In recovery, but a long way to recovered
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Do you think I should extend for an extra week instead of 2 weeks so to have just another opportunity or two to be able to schedule more time with H? YES!!!! If plan A is working, then do it more. Just remember to end it if you get to the point that you want to lask out. You might be surprised, you may actually enjoy plan A also. To say the part about him still going home to OW sucks is an understatement. But try to enjoy the moments when he is with you. Try very had not to think about OW and most importantly do not mention a single word about OW to your WH. He will only defend her and it will make you mad.
BW 38 (me)
FWH 42
Married 7 years
DD 6
SD 15
11-2006 H said he wanted a divorce and walked out
3-2007 I told H I wanted him back
3-2007 to 4-2007 D-day's
4-2007 H moved back in for good
Today-In recovery, but a long way to recovered
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YES!!! I missed your questions, maybe you posted while I was writing my post: Do you think I should extend for an extra week instead of 2 weeks so to have just another opportunity or two to be able to schedule more time with H? Since I haven't done either plan since April when I discovered and had only just eliminated most contact with him so as to not subject myself to his lash outs.
I don't want to extend if it'll make him cake eat more but I thought maybe an extra time or 2 together would help for when I go into Plan B because all he'll have to remember is the 2 times in the next 2 weeks. YES!!! If you aren't losing your love for him, and you are able to not LB, then definitely. Yes after awhile you want to not allow cake-eating; but you haven't even done Plan A yet (until now). Putting your foot down about the cake-eating won't necessarily get you your M back if you haven't done a good Plan A first.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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