Thank you so much for your post and your message myopia.

I came home early from work as I look terrible and felt like I needed a break. I work in sales so time on the road is expected! I stopped at the library to pick up some marriage/affair/abuse/separation books but the pickings were slim. I did get one called "Fighting for your marriage" by Markman, Stanley and Blumberg and I hope it will help.

I requested the change to the topic as you suggested and thank you for helping me out and continuing to listen and support me. (It has changed - thanks moderators!!!)

I think you are right that WH is trying to blame everything on me and his family has a history of that. They can hold grudges better than anyone - his mother has not spoken to her brother for 30+ years and it was over something really silly.

Our friend is supposedly talking to him today but I have not heard from him. I know that he is on my side and is helping to balance the situation in WH's mind. I hope he will call me and update me soon.

I haven't heard from WH at all and have not attempted to contact him either. It's lonely but essential and I will give him full control of the situation as you suggested. At the same time I will regroup and focus on me and the kids and feel the calm off the rollercoaster for a while.

Manly did so well - but boy was it embarrasing for Melbourne!

He spoke to our mutual friend tonight who called me after that.

He is still really really really mad at me "for what I did yesterday", which I took to mean explaining in a non-threatening way that if we were going to work on our marriage it will only be when he is willing to put me first in his life, not last and that I would not tolerate him having a female best friend who got more of him that I do and that I said that if he didn't fill those shoes then I would rather find someone who would than settle for the marriage that we had!

So, he told our friend that he will not change his mind, will not have any regrets in x months from now and really means it when he says that he never wants to see me again etc.

Our friend told him that most people who go down this road live to regret it, (he said he wouldn't) and that he has to stop making me wrong all of the time and try and clear his head.

Our friend said it will be another 2 days before he calms down and that I should just have no expectations and live as a single mum with the kids doing my own thing. Agreed. I already feel better without worrying about what was going to happen.

He sent me a message seconds after he hung up from our friend which said "You gave me your promise that you would not contact anyone from my band or any of my employers again. You have broken that as of yesterday in contacting (our mutual friend)."

I did not respond. I never promised him that. But, if he can break his promise that we would be married for life and be faithful etc, then what's a conversation between me and a trusted third party! Our friend said the same thing to WH and said that I am my own person and he cannot control who I talk to. He also said that it was okay for me to talk to him and WH cannot tell him what to do either.

The house is a mess and I ate tea tonight for the first time in weeks. Hopefully I sleep well and tomorrow...well I'll just wait till then.

Any advice is welcomed and appreciated.

2m2l,

Well your WH could win a medal for gaslighting...

Your thread caught my eye becasue you seem to be struggling with what I had a real hard time with in the begining, which is to fine that perfect one liner or sweet sugestion that will make him change his mind. Sorry dear, it won't happen.

My thread ia huge and it's emotionally draining, but may be of help as the advice I got was golden.

2m2l focus on what you could change about you. Once I got that concept the rest just followed.

Sorry...forgot one point.

You are inevitably enabling the A by paying his rent. You need to stop this and he gave you the perfect opotunity to do so. He wants you to respect his letter, then start by not sending him any money whatsoever. (Open your own accounts, and make sure there are no joint accounts he can drain).

Thank you TMTS! I am up to Dec 07 in your thread and it looks like I will be reading for days - but I am a sponge for information at the moment and by looking at your signature, I believe it worked out it the end for you.

I will call the bank tomorrow and remove him from our joint accounts. Thank you for your suggestions.

I wish there was a one-liner that would break through. Wouldn't that be grand!

I also have an unread copy of Boundaries on my bookshelf which was a wedding present from our minister with The 5 Emotional Love Languages - also unread until last weekend. I can't believe I had the tools in my house!!!

The 5 love languages is one of the greatest books ever writen (IMO). I didn't "get" what my W was telling me.

BTW...there is much more than the 100+ pages of my thread, because along the way I was given links to some very good posts...so you got a long way to go.

I've never read anything on boundaries but it sounds like this is something you need help with. Very important side of the stick part of plan A (You will see the links about the carrot and stick of Plan A, it's a must read.)

My snooping got the better of me this morning and I was burnt.

He is still at the backpackers but in the back of the car there were rental application forms and properties for rent pamplets. I nearly had a panic attack on the spot and felt like marching up to his room and demanding answers.

But, I didn't.

I came back to work and calmly called the bank and cancelled his access to our bank account and requested for his visa to be cancelled too. They like to take 45 days, but I sent an email with my reasons so hopefully they come through. My mum works there too so that might help.

I guess the positive out of this is that the applications were unfilled and in the car. The rental prices of some of the properties were upwards of $800 per week and obviously way out of his league. Maybe a little reality check will be good at this stage as to how life after me will work.

I heard nothing again last night from him and still live in hope that he will crawl back and I will get to Plan A again.

TMTS - I saw in your posts that you were pushing your WW to give you information she wasn't ready for and I find myself falling into the same trap all the time. I keep thinking I am getting through and then I back up and offload all of my needs and wants and he lashes out and runs for the hills.

I hope I am not too late to save us.

I spoke to his mum last night and she wont even return his calls. She is mad at him for this but it was her example that he follows today.

My family know now too that he has called the plan B so I hope their support will filter back through again.

I feel so angry today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just now catching up on your thread. Sorry for the time delay!

I know that it must be devastating for you to read his words! Even though you wre planning a Plan B of your own, it must still be very difficult to hear that he does not want communication with you.

to me, it is obvious what he is up to here. That nice weekend you ahd with him? I am sure he was very sincere about that - he enjoyed his time with you as much as you did. But the next day, he probably spent time with the OW and it confused him all over again.
He started to feel that "addiction" that comes from having some young girl admire him. so he was right back into a relationship with her, and looking for someone else to blame. His excuses/reasons to blame you are ridiculous. Is a woman supposed to be 100% perfect, all the time, in order to "win" him as a H? Has he been 100% perfect, all the time? He is going to analyze your body language and then determine that you are not fit to be his wife? Is that in the M vows?

He doesn't want contact with you becasue it reminds him that what he is doing is wrong. Not that you tell him that he is wrong - but just hearing your voice, or seeing your messages, is a reminder of his guilt. He has dumped his w and children, and he knows it. The best way to salve the guilt, is to lock it up tight and ignore it.

He figures that by announcing to you that "as of today I no longer consider myself married" he is now free to openly date. I guarantee you, he was with the OW that night. He thinks that by announcing his mental divorce from you, he will be free to screw around, and his guilt will finally go away. But it won't.

Do not call him, send him a message, or anything. And PLEASE cut off all access to $$. I would suggest that you just open a new account for yourself, and start using it right away. You are not trying to punish him. You are trying to fill his wishes. He will come crying to you quickly when he realizes that he may have to get a real job to pay his own rent.

He says he will file for the D. I seriously doubt it. he would need money to do that, and he is not about to spend the money on something like that. in his mind, he is all ready divorced, so why bother with the paper work?

Make yourself a list of things to do, and then get busy.Get your own bank account. Love your kids. Get the book that was recommeded to you in the post above. Take daily walks. Drink more water. Do positive things for yourself, that will help to build your strength. Do not contact him in anyway. During this time, you are not just sitting back and waiting for him. You are still working on your M. But you working on it, by building up your half. You cannot build up his half - he is a very sick man right now. But you can at least build up yourself.

And tell yourself this - he is not the boss of you! You contacted a mutual friend, to talk about the ugly email he sent you? That is ok. You can talk to friends any time you want. Do not let him bully you any longer. You need to come up with your own plan for visiting the kids, and you tell him how it will be. You are the more mature person in this, and you need to form a plan.

another good book to read: Women Who Love Too Much

I have to tell you - I am worried about this seminar you are going to.
it sounds a little weird to me, and if it is giving your H the idea that his behavior is some how ok, then I think you need to stay away from it.

45 days for what?
Open your own individual account and do not leave any money in the joint account. If they will not cancel his access to the visa card, report his card as stolen. this is critical, because he is getting ready to charge his rent to your account. Do not pay for his apartment to continue his A. and get yourself ready - when he realizes he does not have enough money to move into his own place, he may come back and try to sweet talk you into funding it. He may say things like "I really do want to be a good H, I just need some time to myself, please give me $800 now, and I will pay you later." Be prepared to tell him that if he wants to move home,and be a H to you, with NO female friendships, then you would be happy to talk to him. But as long as he is living seperate, you are not able to help him out.

and prepare yourself - he is not planning to live alone. He wants to move in with OW. But he is going to tell everyone that they are just friends, and he can not afford a place by himself, because of what you did to him.

I have messed up really really really badly...

He was nice to me all last week which was convenient because that’s when we finalized the car payment and put the car in his name. It was literally the day after he had the car that things changed so I see now that it was a ploy to get the car. Now that the car is in his name he has 75k. I have a mortgage of 300k plus and he has the car with no money owing. I pay the mortgage so I am effectively paying for his bloody car too. If the money was in the bank my mortgage payments would be $800 per month less. I think he told me to do what I want with the house so that he can sell the car and keep the money and stick it up me. In his warped mind he thinks that is his just deserts. By the time I sell the house I would be lucky to walk away with a 50k deposit and then I would need to pay stamps anyway and end up owning more than I do now, IF I could even sell the house in this market. AND I have the kids, all of the bills including 2k plus a month for childcare, none of his income and no child support. I found out today that I get no extra benefits as a single mum – great news!

He can sell the car and use 75k to fund his lifestyle~!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M SO MAD THAT I FELL FOR HIS EVIL TRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bank called and Visa has been cancelled but it doesn't matter - he's got $75,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you were to file for D, wouldn't you get child support from him?

also, here in the states, when we file for D, both parties have to list everything they owe, and everything they own. If you were to file right now, you would have all the house debt that you owe, and he would have that $75,000 car that he ownes, so wouldn't he need to sell it and split the proceeds with you?
Just some things to think about

It would be well worth your time and money to sit with a lawyer for an hour or two to ask all these questions. That doesn't mean you would have to file righ away. But if you ask for a lawyers adivce, at least you wold know what your options are.

Thanks WOF.

You're kind words are exactly what I needed to hear and you have really calmed me.

I have printed your thread to re-read all day "Do not call him..."

A friend of mine at work said he will give me his lawyers details so I will make the call. I don't want to but I feel really exposed and afraid.

My WH does not have a regular job and does not declare all gigs so getting child support payments from him will be tough. Our mutual friend is the guy who writes the cheques for one of his bands so I might have an ally to help me there. Fingers crossed.

Thank you for your time and support. It is my life-line!

Good, now you understand why I jumpped on your thread. Keep reading as you are getting close to the part where the vets really start pounding it into me...until I got it.

He scammed you good, all you can do is learn from it.

Thanks TMTS - I am still reading now

I did sleep in between but logged on from work to catch up again.

It is golden to look at the work in progress and hopefully learn from your mistakes. I know, really know, that it must have been horrible to live through it, but I appreciate the insight and want to live and breathe as much of the good as I can.

Thank you for your gift

Okay, so I know I need to learn from my mistakes and gather my strength for the next round...

What should I do now???

If he comes back with a small request of me after x days of no contact, what do I do?

Is it still plan A?

He was going to look after the kids on Saturday night so I could go out with a girlfriend (that he disappoves of because she treats me like a doormat - ironic). I don't know if he'll come, try to get out of it, make a big deal about it, if I should make alternative arrangements like my parents and tell him not to worry etc or if that will annoy him more.

What do I do?

Plan A would be nice, I don't really like his plan B because it is all about him, but he doesn't know that I have cancelled his visa card and access to the money yet either so it probably will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Help!

I just got a call from the daycare centre where my kids are and a female deposited $1500 into the fees for me. They asked not to be identified and I burst into tears.

Times are tought but I'm not at that stage yet! I don't know if it was one of my sisters or my mum but I know that none of them can afford it either.

I guess I just need to thank G-d and keep praying. I will call them all tonight and try and find out who my angel is. It is a debt that I hope to repay someday.

My girfriend at work heard me crying after my money phone call and I told her why. She asked me to do her Angel Cards again. I am a devout Christian but I do like to pick them for the fun of it.

Today my past card was Clairvoyance for spiritual sight to awaken fully so you can clearly see Heavenly love.

My present card was Patience - your dreams are booming more rapidly than you realise. Still, they need nurturing and patience.

My future card was Counselor - you are a natural counselor, and many people benefit from your guidance and reassurance.

So, I think my spiritual awakening definately happened on D-Day but play A and B are helping give me clarity about me and my growth and destination; Patience sounds promising, maybe plan A and now NC with WH is actually working; and Counselor - well maybe I will need to the the counsellor for WH when he returns. He always said I was his rock and that he valued my opinion.

I know I can't really read too much into this, but I like the possibilities it opens in my mind.

Knowledge is power so it's a shame that I still don't know anything! Hehehe.

I took some time out today and got a spray tan. Losing 20 pounds and being tanned is something that WH loves. I am almost as skinny as the dancers in his band, well, maybe 15 pounds to go, but they are extreme waifs and I look hot. Nothing like seeing your favourite chocolates on the top shelf behind the wrapping and trying to stick to your diet!!!

So, a few developments. He sent me a text at 4.10pm announcing that our MC had contacted him and that he would continue with MC to be amicable for the children, not our marriage. He has started the paperwork for our divorce and agreed that we had to be separated for 12 months first, so he picked 4th August to be fair. And, he is mad at me for blackening his reputation with our mutual friend and the MC and asked who else.

At 4:40pm he sent me an email which he apparently sent to BMW to apply for a cadetship in sales.

Ok, so he will still do MC so that's a bonus and you just never know. The MC said that the condition is that neither of us make a decision to dissolve the marriage for 3 months, so WH must have agreed to that with him on the phone.

Paperwork - well, you have to be separated for 12 months before you file and you can do the research on the internet like I did so I think that's to scare me.

Who else - just those two people and your dad and your brother. I sent them both a letter today saying that you have asked for a divorce and even though I love him and want to work on our marriage and make it amazing, he said no. He'll find out about the letters soon I guess.

Credit card has not been discovered yet...

BMW cadetship - why did he send me this email? To brag that he is going to be fine without me and doesn't need me anymore or because I know it is one of his ultimate dreams and he wanted to share it with me.

All this being said, I have given WH nothing. I emailed the MC and told him I'm in. I want to save my marriage and I will do everything I can to save it.

That's 3 text messages and 2 emails from WH that I have not responded to since Tuesday night. It's only 6:30pm Thursday so a lot could still happen, but I am going to pretend for now that the cracks are showing.

Is there anything I should do now? How do I react to his text and emails and phone calls if/when they occur?

Please help.


In the counsellors office there was a Reinhard picture that he was really taken with and wanted to buy from the MC. He said no and I found one the States and can buy it and have it shipped here for $25. Bargain. My question is, do I save it for Christmas or do I give it to him when it arrives in a plan A gesture. He can't hang it at the backpackers, but I hope it will be a reminder of our marriage counselling so we never get to this point ever again...once we reach recovery that is. Maybe it will fill him with good thoughts and he'll be overwhelmed at my thoughtfulness and it will remind him of all of the lovely things I do for him. I think his EN's are Words of Affection then Receiving Gifts.

He just sent a message saying he's coming to see the kids and can I leave for 2 hours. I sent one back saying we were not home and I'd need more notice next time. Ouch

I said he could come but I'd be here as I have things to do. He said he didn't give a F.. they are his kids and he's coming"

Ok, PLAN A

It's a tough plan A. He is here and interacting with the kids but completely ignoring me. He will not answer me at all and is being really childish.

All the more reason to keep on keeping on with plan A. I just gave DD some biscuits to share with him and that's going well. He knows they came from me and that's cool.

DD can't read, she's 3. But, I got her a book yesterday from the library about when families change and get divorced. He keeps glancing at it and I am sure it hurts. Maybe only once.

Plan A Plan A Plan A

have you actaully read the book, Surviving An Affair?
I was totally confused about what your plan is.

You do not do "plan A, Plan B and no contact" all at the same time.
plan A and B are 2 totally different plans, and frankly, you are not currently working either one of them.

You need to get a plan. Right now, I think that you insist on
becuase that way, you at least get little scraps of attention from him. Scraps. That is all. And as long as you continue to say then you will open yourself up to situations, like a week ago, when you borrowed money against your house so he could have a $75,000 car. Remember how upsetting that was?
You will get into another mess like that, as long as you continue to flounder around, with no real direction.

PLEASE - read the book. Understand the plans. You are not fighting for your M right now. you are fighting for 5 minutes of attention from a man who is treating you like crap.

Plan A does not go on forever, and frankly yours is way past over due. But you do not go into Plan B by suddenly ignoring him either. Plan B starts with a well worded letter, explaning that you love him, you want to recover your M, but you can not continue to have contact with him. And then YOU spell out a plan for him to visit the children. Plan B gives him a clear picture of what a D would be like. In Plan B, you set up a visitation schedule for the children that would show him what to expect. A divorced father does not just show up whenever he feels like it. He has a schedule of something like "every Wednesady from 5pm to 7pm, and every other weekend. "

His agreement to go to MC does not mean anything. It is truly a waste of time, if he is still in contact with the OW (she is NOT just a casual friend. YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT!!)

Other people are feeling so sorry for you that they are paying for your day care. That is awesome! But don't you see what is happening here? Other people are trying to help you to take care of your children, during a bad situation, just to get you back on your feet. And what are you doing to help yourself? Sitting at home waiting for 5 minutes of attention from a man who could care less right now. That is not healthy for you, or those darling children.

My sister, I am truly worried about you!! This current situation could go on for years if you don't stand up for yourself. You have got to gain your strength. Rally your support group around you.

I do not normally get all "preachy" with people, but as a devout Christian, you have got to stay away from those Angel cards. PLEASE. You are opening a door to the spirtual world, that should not be opened. the Bible is very specific about Tarot cards, fortune tellers, sooth sayers, etc. It says that when you consult one of these types of "spirtualists" you will indeed get advice from the spirtual world, but it is not from your past relatives, or angels. it is from Satans army, plain and simple. I know that stuff is very attractive right now, but it would be so much healthier for you to get yourself into church, into a bible study, into something positive. Take a stand here. Bring light into your life - not darkness.