SS,

I have been providing MIL with reassurances that she and FIL are still a part of my life. It is difficult for her that this happened so fast. It is also difficult for me. I feel that I have failed and it weighs on me heavily. Intellectually I know I was in a no win situation and I had to make the best of it, it just doesn't feel that way to me.

Younger children don't really know their mother. They are happy that I am with them all the time and glad that she is not creating distractions from them. It seems cold but she was never a mother to them. You are right that I'm kind of floating without a plan and it makes me uneasy. When you have a plan you always know what to do, when you don't then you can just get stuck. I'm also being disappointed that W said she wanted to be a Mother but has not even called the children in 4 days.

On a positive note, my secretary has the Florida trip all ready and Sam actually agreed to come. I'm going to really try to have my head in the right place to make that fun. It will probably be one of the last chances I get to have a trip like this with Sam along. Jacob and Joshua (twins) really look up to him so they are excited.

Hon, I'm so sorry. But better days are ahead, I promise.

I'm so glad about the trip. Ooh! We just went to Disneyworld in August. Go online and look for the biplane rides. Not that expensive, and I can't imagine that Sam wouldn't absolutely LOVE it! They actually get to fly the plane if they want.

OK 6years,

Time for a plan. First step, stop saying your sorry. You did the best you could AND perhaps your W has done the same.

Second step, make darned sure your MIL knows how much you appreciate all she has done. She was the one that kicked her daughters tush those months ago, because she knew your W was failing. Also please be aware that your MIL NEEDS to talk about her daughter. She needs you to listen to her. Her daughter has failed, and as a relatively young parent you have yet to face that with your children. There can be little worse than watching and knowing your child is and will fail and be helpless to do anything about it. You don't have to put down her daughter, but MIL needs to give voice to her feelings of failure, how she feels she failed her grandchildren and you. Be kind, let her talk about whatever is on her mind, and reassure her that she is still part of your family. 6Years, this is very tough on you, but in ways this will be tougher on W's mother. If ever there was a time to show grace, this is it.

third step, plan for the near future, what do you need to do to prepare the next one for college, and the younger ones for HS.

Fourth step, plan YOUR future, what you want to do, what you enjoy, finances (could be a good time to buy stock ya know ).

And finally, stop the recriminations. The issues your W has are not of your making, they are not of your children's making, and really I am not sure they are FOO issues either.

God Bless,

JL

6 yrs -

Been following your story - mainly because there are some small similarities in my own situation.

There is one question I have and if you dont want to answer - I understand.



The quote above is hard for me to wrap my head around. Your STBX had 5 children and yet there is no maternal instinct being shown - I cannot fathom it. One of the reasons why my wife will take her "dark period" to the grave is the concern of the kids.

Was there ever any bonding between your wife and children during their early infant and toddler years? As a father - this was the period when I bonded with my kids. Shoot - would be happy to have a bunch of little ones crawling around the house anytime.

Wow, I'm so sorry you've ended up here, but I've kind of felt from the beginning that you had detached a long time ago. The way she treats her children? As a mother of four myself, I just can't even fathom that.

Are you sure he said it would be final that quick? That's really bizarre. I've been in the legal field for a long long time and I've never heard of a divorce case moving this quickly. You can go to Nevada and get a quickie divorce but I've never heard of other states doing this. I wouldn't think the judge had the authority to waive the "cooling down" period because it's by statute.

Maybe you misunderstood your attorney? Maybe he said the paperwork would be drafted, finalized and filed by Monday? I just can't imagine a judge pushing this through this quick with children involved, even if it is filed with adultery as fault.

If you don't mind my asking, what state are you in?

If you didn't misunderstand, then I guess there are still a few things I don't know.

Princess,

I may have misunderstood, but I think in Virginia there is no waiting period if adultery is proven or admitted. It could also be that everything is done except the waiting period. Usually a separation of 1 year is required with minor children. I could also have been considered to condone the A but my lawyer thought not since it was just recently admitted. I'm sure I can get a more clear picture on Monday.

No, I think you're right. I was reading up on the Virigina statutes after you got my curiosity up. They have absolute and limited divorces-- absolute being granted almost immediately with grounds (including adultery). The only thing that I read that concerned me a little (as far as getting an immediate divorce) is this:

"A divorce will not be granted if it occurred more than five years before the institution of the suit, or if it was committed by the connivance of the party alleging the act."

I'm sure your attorney knows what he's doing though and there's probably some loophole around this.

I like the way Virginia handles things... they're not too quick to grant divorces -- 6 mos to 1 yr waiting period with no fault and pretty much no waiting period if there are certain grounds.

Does this mean that, had your wife not agreed to write down the details of her affair for you, you would have no grounds for a divorce?


TA

Princess, Together;

My lawyer says that because W had always denied and then just admitted it plus since I just found out that the children were exposed that the 5 year thing is not an issue. I have abundant proof at this point but she has confessed anyway. I was wondering why the confession stated that I could not prove the A until a few weeks ago, I guess that is the reason.

D will be final, done on Monday unless I push for today, which I will not since it seems like a waste of money.

Together - If she had not confessed then we would have had to file no fault. Virginia actually does provide punishment for Adulterers. Also the OM's name is in the filing.

We have more family counseling today and I have invited my MIL to come over and have a 1-1 chat. I told her if she needs to talk about W that is ok but I don't want to turn her into a spy for either of us.

JL,

Thanks for the advice. I will make sure to extend my support to MIL and FIL. They have always supported me. I just don't want to turn them into spy's or anything like that.

We are working with Rachael on colleges and Sam is charging along. The twins are just lapping up all the extra Dad time that is now available. We should probably cut down some of the late nights and heavy dinners but it seems like we all need it right now.

I'm still hitting the gym really hard, it helps to be physically tired and sore. Also I'm looking pretty good and that doesn't hurt either.

6Years,

Just a reaffirmation. Mortar Man (a past poster here) was/is from VA. IN the case of adultery it really can go fast. I used to live in Va, and never knew the state was that enlightened. To understand that some things need to be handled differently from others. I do know VA is very accomplished at finding ways to efficiently remove tax dollars from the wallet.

You don't need to nor do you wish to be using the in-laws for spying. Why would you? But, they do need to talk, they do need closure, and frankly you might find some of it useful to you. From your description, they seem like kind and good folks and I am sure they are hurting perhaps even more than you. You have known many things for a long time, you had the 6 year plan. They did not know most of this stuff. Treat them well and I think in the long run YOU will be rewarded. Your kids will have a better relationship with that side of their family, they will learn how a man of class and grace treats folks that need his help.

Just a question: What colleges are being considered by your daughter?

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I have a great tax person so I am covered there. I have also updated insurance and estate stuff just in case.

Rachael is thinking about William and Mary, Harvard ($$$ ugh) , Princeton and Yale. She is not the type to think about backup schools so we will have to talk about that.

6years,

All excellent choices. You are right perhaps a back up would be good. Duke, Stanford , let's see any other schools that can drain Dad's wallet???

JL

Good Lord, I am SO grateful that my D18 (1) doesn't care at all about prestige in colleges and (2) doesn't want to go anywhere further north than Texas because she hates the snow (in-state tuition break!).

Do you want to know why she chose Univ. of North Texas? We went on a college hop last summer in most of the cities in Texas, and we pull up to the UNT campus and end up parking next to their brand new, block-sized fitness facility. She's a health nut, and I think she intends to spend half her time at that gym, lol.

I tried to talk her into going to our state's Lutheran college so I could get an even better price break, but no luck...their gym could fit in the UNT gym's locker room.

Good luck on that, 6.

6, I've been reluctant to post, as my thoughts on this are not at all in synch with the run of the thread. That makes me question my own judgement. However, as it seems likely that your stay on this board will have no particular reason to continue past the divorce, I may not have much time to get this in.

This whole case has been bizarre - your wife's attitude doesn't fit with ANYTHING I've seen in six years here. Some WWs do plan to dump their kids while they're deep in the affair, and some do actually leave, but for a mother to leave her children with no affair going on, and with no great wrench on her part, and having NEVER been much attached to them, runs completely counter to basic human biology and maternal emotions.

It seems to me that your wife MUST suffer from some kind of basic psychological malnfunction - such as a personality or developmental disorder - or that she is in a state of serious emotional illness.

Has she been like this since the first birth? Did she fail to bond or show affection for her son? (You've been asked this a few times, but as yet I've seen no answer - however, it's a long thread and I may have missed a post here and there.)

If she was close and affectionate to the first child, there must have been a point where things started to change? Did you notice when that was? Did it coincide with anything else in her life?

If, on the other hand, she was remote from the first child, didn't you notice? Didn't you see a problem and think about getting help? If the situation persisted with the second child, surely you must have seen? Why did you go on to have two more pregnancies?

See, I agree that there's something horribly dysfunctional about this situation. But I'm not with everyone else in just agreeing that there must be something badly wrong with your wife to have generated such a poor outcome. There was clearly a problem in the marriage, but your way of dealing with it seems to have been to detach yourself and push your wife as far as possible out of your emotional landscape. That allowed you to 'cope' with the problem, but at the expense of building up a reservoir of repressed and unprocessed emotions, I should think. Are you going to take that approach into other relationships?

There are many scenarios that would fit with the facts of your situation. For example, what would happen if a young coúple get together in somewhat stressed circumstances; if the man's natural tendency when he's anxious is to move in and take forcible control of the situation, while the woman's is to move away and distract herself? Would these tendencies reinforce each other - the woman moving away from the problem, the man taking the problem from her and managing it himself, the woman feeling less and less competent and moving even further away to hide from the discomfort, the man dealing with the increasing anxiety by controlling things even more...and so on.

I don't think that's a fanciful scenario, and it fits many of the things you've described about your marriage. The breaking of the marriage ends that particular cycle, but if the man carries the same over-control into the next relationship - what do you think would happen?


It troubles me that you pressed your wife to come clean about her A - which could not have been easy for her - and then her honesty was rewarded with almost instantly being ejected from the marriage. If you really had all the proof you needed already, why didn't you use it? Why did you put her through the confession?

It troubles me that your attitude to your stbxw seems so cold. The woman has borne you five children, after all. If she was such a poor mother, you yourself own some of the responsibility for allowing that situation to develop and become toxic, don't you think? If she's mentally ill, some sympathy is due, don't you think? You've been willing to have frequent sex with her, and the only regret I've seen from you about her leaving is that you'll have to do without SF.

It troubles me that there is so much anger expressed by your children towards their mother. This is very likely to cause serious repercussions further down the line. How are you planning to deal with that? Because, from where I'm sitting, it looks as if they're headed down the same road as you - vilification of the 'baddie' and emotional rejection.

I wish you well, 6, but my gut tells me that there's a deeper problem here than perhaps you're aware of yourself.

TA

TA,

I don't think the issue was his getting the info on the A and then dumping her. It was her refusal to go to counseling, her refusal to participate in family functions such as: dinner. Her refusal to stop going out with the girls 3,-4 nights a week. Her refusal to take over tasks that most Moms gladly do for their children.

I agree with you this woman is very strange.

Catperson:

Oh come on! Please couldn't you get your daughter to go to a good school...UT Austin????

Don't you find it interesting how kids pick schools. I sure did it strangely when I did my choosing.

God Bless,

JL

lol, she hates UT! The only UT she's even considering is Tyler.

She also hates A&M; she went there for a leadership weekend and couldn't stand it. Basically, she said she didn't want a large school. She doesn't feel safe in big crowds like that, so we looked at a lot of small places.

Then she saw the gym (about three times as big as a regular Bally's) at UNT, and it's never even been a question since, lol.

When I comment that UNT has 30,000 students, she just blows it off. Cos she wants that gym so badly.

Yeah it IS strange, isn't it?

Her best friend went to UT Austin this year. For the last four years, all we've heard from this girl is that she wants a college as far away from home as possible so her parents wouldn't want to come visit her (they are uber-strict 1st generation Koreans, and all she cared about was getting to drink, have sex, party...). But she couldn't get a full ride at the ivy leagues.

I'm cool, though, cos D18 has gone from wanting to become a fashion designer (for the last 6 years) to psychologist to psychiatrist to neurologist, all in the course of 6 months. Just have to figure out how to pay for it now, since our investments are in the toilet.

6, sorry for the TJ.

But how many foggy WSs have we seen that dive in immediately and do everything that is asked of them? Yes most of his requirements seem completely normal for a mother to do, however her past behaviors have been accepted for so long there's no way she could change herself in such a short time.

She seemed remorseful and sad in the beginning. She tried to be honest. Then she was hit with non negotiable ultimatums. That's not the way to get her to WANT to change.

I just don't see the kids EVER being able to have a decent R with her after the D. They'll feel like they are betraying him if they even want to try, and some day they might. If she is never talked about and is shunned from any family situations they will be the big losers in all of this.

This situations doesn't sit right with me, but it's just my opinion.

Michele, Together;

W was never close with the children even as small babies, she said she was not comfortable with them and was afraid she would hurt them. I love babies so I never minded holding them and caring for them. It should have been a red flag but we were super busy, I was young, working and in school. I have 5 younger siblings and she is the baby of her family, so we had different experiences. I cant really regret having the kids but it was probably not the wisest choice.

Michele, you seem to think I am punishing my wife but she is happy about the D. She has not even called the children once since she left. I have accepted that she is not a good mother and won't even try to be one. I can try to be a good father and I will make it clear to the children that I want them to have a good relationship with their mom if it is possible. I don't have very long to wrk on this before they are all grown and I need every minute to help them. Not everyone gets to have a good mom.

JL:


I'd agree with you if this were happening six months down the line. It's the timescale that's disturbing.

It's taken twenty years for this marriage to reach an entrenched state of serious dysfunction, for which 6 is just as culpable - if not more so - than his wife. There's no evidence that the marriage had ever operated in a healthy way, so functional relationship and personal skills would have to be built from scratch.

This takes time. It's impossible to change strongly ingrained behaviour overnight, even with the strongest desire to do so. These two people have, OVER TWO DECADES, developed ways of being together that are familiar and 'easy', if unhealthy. Working to new rules will feel odd and uncomfortable. On a simple physical level, it takes time for the neuronic pathways in the brain to be dismantled and rebuilt. We're talking years, rather than hours.

D-day - the real d-day, when 6's wife gave him all the fact - was mid-September. On 5th September he was still telling her 'She asked if I'm leaving and I said I'm staying until the kids are grown.' By mid-October he's divorced????

This is a crazy timescale. At this stage in any infidelty situation, emotions and thoughts are all over the place - we advise BSs not to make any decisions while in that state of confusion and pain, don't we? The fact that there's a back history contributes to the speed of the decision, but that back-history is of a marriage of two people withholding acres of truth from each other. The marriage has only had a chance of getting on track for a couple of weeks, as far as I can see.

This is a situation that requires patience, and watching for postive change. Many WSs take years to agree to MC after confessing the affair - a fortnight is not remotely a reasonable period to wait. If, after six months and 6's honest rebuilding of himself, there was no change...then it would be sensible to come to a negative evaluation.

Everything I've read on this thread suggests to me that 6 has a huge tolerance for pain - as long as he's in control of the situation. What I keep seeing is that his tolerance for uncertainty, for situations requiring patience with another person's incompetence, for being at the mercy of another person's actions and NOT being entirely in control of his own destiny - is very, very low. Rather than live with the feeling of powerlessness, 6's response seems invariably to have been one that 'fixes' the situation immediately, and pushes the underlying problems out of sight. I'd put the hasty divorce in the same category as the looking after of the first baby, and the stepping in to care for the family during the wife's affair distraction. Admirably responsible for the most part - but the underlying system failure was kept off the agenda in each case.

I haven't picked up much sense that 6 sees himself as being in any way at fault here. He's done his best, picked up the slack all over the place, looked after his family and covered for his wife. And he really HAS done all these things - he seems a very responsible guy. What I haven't seen is him asking whether he should have done those things, whether the short-term fix might have long-term consequences. I haven't seen himself asking questions about why he solved other people's problems rather than require them to fix their own, why he didn't seek outside professional help for a struggling new mother, why he was prepared to grit his teeth through a hopeless marriage for the sake of the children, but is not prepared to grit the same teeth to rebuild the marriage for the sake of the same children, at the very moment when such an outcome is possible.


I think we've let him off much too lightly, and I don't think that's to the advantage of his kids, or of his own future.

TA