It has been nearly 7 months since my wife's affair. While things are immensely better, my problems have changed. I find my self constantly thinking of how to get even with the other man. My self esteem is 0 knowing that I did nothing to make him some how pay for what he has done. This piece of crap has ruined other marriages in or town.He test the water with every woman he comes across. He's a big good looking guy that woman are naturally attracted too, however he is stupid. Late forties and still delivering beer to the market, Has tried many time to get a better job but can't pass any of the tests. Anyone that knows him has told me that. I don't know if my wife has got it straight in her head what a worthless human being he really is. He runs around destroying peoples lives and could care less. He has even tried to contact my wife again after six months, after which I let him know in know uncertain terms the consequences would be deadly if he ever came between my wife and I again. None the less he gets to go on about his life as if nothing ever happened and I'm still picking up the pieces. I want my wife to hate him, but I think she doesn't want to believe she had an affair and nearly ruined our lives with someone who didn't really care for her and wanted only to get her pants.

My wife and I are getting along pretty well I believe, considering what has happened and no more time than has passed, but I get the feeling that she has just kind of given up and decided "oh well this is just how my life is going to be". I'm convinced in my own mind that the affair was the result of a mid life crisis. My wife is a very attractive 51 years old, smart, funny and hard working. I want her to love me as much as I love her but I can tell she still doesn't feel that way. Is it to soon?

I would like to hear from you FWW on the progression you went through in coming to love your husbands again, or have you? Did you come to despise the other man? What am I missing? what should I be looking for? Just trying to get my head straight.

Stillsad, I have no idea what a midlife crisis is, but I do know that she will not fall in love with you unless you work on your marriage. What are you doing to effect this? Do you have a PLAN?

Also, you are at a place in recovery where some real RAGE seems to come out. It happened to me when I was at 9 months. The relief of saving my marriage wore off and the RAGE came out. But it was the beginning of the end of my recovery. It is part of recovery.

When you feel that rage, come here and unload on us, instead of her, ok?

Has anyone ever exposed that scumbag? Is he married?

Sorry you are here, friend.

I do want to understand your comment about mid life crisis, though.

1. what is a mid life crisis?

2. how is that relevant to the situation? as in "this is a midlife crisis, therefore_____________________.

What is the therefore and how does an affair during this "midlife crisis" differ from the run of the mill affair?

Midlife crisis??? I can only explain a mid life crisis as I perceive it to be. I believe my wife had become worried about getting old. She was looking for something to make her feel better about herself. I told her quite often she was beautiful, but It probably doesn't mean much after a while coming from someone you have been with 34 years. I know by the way she had spoke on a few occasions that she had wished she had done more with her life. I don't think there is any explaining in a definitive manner why some people men and women start feeling the grass is greener else where or begin to question there lives, but some do, typically latter in life.

As far as working on the marriage. I started working on the marriage long before the affair. That's part of the confusing and why it hurt so bad. When I told my 30 year old daughter about the A she was totally dumbfounded because she had seen the way I had been treating her mother in the last 5 years prior to the A. I was a bit of an [censored] in the years prior. We have received help from the Harleys, but I believe my wife would like to go on as if nothing ever happened and it's not that easy for me. She has a hard time facing it I believe.

You hit the nail on the head as far as why my focus has changed from obsessing over my marriage enough to think about other things like the dirt bag.

We live in a small town of about 4500 and as it turns out allot of people know about this POS, even though I didn't. He's not married because his wife cheated on him. Imagine that. I don't think any kind of exposure would do any good, he has no . conscience.

I think mid life crisis is relevant in knowing what is needed to help your marriage. Just as if maybe drinking was the catalyst or if she just plain hated me and the way I act. My wife has always been a caring selfless individual. Her actions where completely out of character.

SS, it sounds to me like she simply fell out of love and ceased to get her needs met in your marriage. You described about 99% of the marriages we see here. The vast majority of affairs we see here are completely out of character. And that comes from people who are ages 25, 30, 35, 40, etc. Sure, there is the rare serial cheater who simply does not know right from wrong, but they are rare.

The solution is to build an affair proof marriage regardless of the cause. That is done by teaching the couple to fall in love again.

What I would focus on is falling in love again. The best, most effective way to do that is to attend a MB weekend. They introduce you to lessons and their professional staff, including Dr Harley, walks you through these lessons, no matter how long it takes. You will have daily access to Dr Harley on the weekend forum. In many of the couples that attend this seminar, there is ONE reluctant spouse. But Dr H is pretty darn effective at selling on the idea of happy marriage.

It is the most effective marriage seminar that I know of. My H and I attended and i can attest to the fact that it really does work. Other counselors attend this seminar for their own marriages.

Marriaqe Builders seminar

If you can't swing that, I would focus on these books as a start:

Surviving an Affair
Fall in Love, Stay in Love
His Needs, Her Needs
Lovebusters

You could both take the emotional needs questionaires to identify top needs: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4500_resource.html

The HArleys also have a marriage coaching service that is very effective. You can click on the link above for that.

The most dramatic difference in my marriage came from stopping lovebusters, though. My independent behavior brought on angry outbursts which caused great harm to both our lovebanks. The whole environment changed when I stopped doing this. It might be different in your marriage, but I was CONVINCED I had no lovebusters for years and was WRONG. So I would pay close attention to that.

Have you considered moving so she is not triggered every time she sees him? You do realize that seeing him all over is not good for either of you. It keeps her in a perpetual state of withdrawal and only keeps you focused on him.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...


No contact, lifechoice http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659249&fpart=3

Every time I read where a WS is still working with the AP I cringe because I know exactly where things are headed. I know I said this before, but I only worked 6 days a month and after I ended the A, of the 6, we maybe worked together 1 or 2. When I ended the A it brought relief and neither FOM nor I wanted the A any longer, but regardless I was hooked. Just seeing his car in the parking lot, his name on an work email, or anything related to him kept me hooked.

I never knew ahead of time if I was going to be working with him. If I pulled into the parking lot and saw his car I would feel happy and sad at the same time and if his car was not there I would feel relief and sad at the same time.

My therapist told me to journal and after I confessed the stuff in there just makes me shake my head. Now when I read the stuff I did, said, etc it makes me sick to my stomach. I honestly believed I was on my best behavior because we were not crossing any inappropriate lines or so we thought. Now I can "see" exactly what happened and how it fed my addiction to the A. All those "professional" conversations that had bits and pieces of non-professional idle chit chat, facial expressions, body language, the unnecessary walk-by's, the acknowleging everyone but him days, etc where so harmful. And then my poor H would get to hear all about it because I was being open and honest. I have no idea why he didn't leave me because of what I put him through.

In a sec I will add a snippet from my journal and a prime example of why FAP's cannot stay working together. I hadn't seen my FOM in who knows how long. Docp had recently asked for all the details of the A and I was a complete nervous wreck. When I got to work, FOM was there, I was having a really bad day and to top it off was exposed to TB by a patient. The TB deal was the straw that broke the camels back. I had a meltdown in my FOM's office and almost passed out. I asked him if I could sit for a second and that second of sitting lead to a conversation we never should have had.

We talked about Docp's and his W's reaction, how we all were coping, how stupid and weak we were etc, etc. Even sitting here now I remember the feeling I had and KNEW we should not have been having that conversation, but it was making me feel better when I felt like crap. What I didn't realize was I had just had a big dose fed to my addiction and the whole cycle started again.

Here is the snippet from my journal: (I changed names of course)

"It felt good to talk to him and clear a lot of this up. He even mentioned it was nice that we were able to talk and I feel like he meant it, not in an appropriate way, just a friendly way. (Ah, this from the person who has been avoiding talking to me forever) I felt like I was talking to my 'old friend" the way it was for years before we messed everything up. I told Docp about the whole conversation. He was ok with this conversation, but said he wouldn't be really happy if we started talking all the time. duh!!!!!! I just said I understand and didn't plan on talking to him about anything that wasn't work related."

OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK.

I had all this going on and I rarely saw my FOM, can you just imagine what is going on when people are seeing each other every day?

Anyway back to NC, I'm not sure if I simply missed it before, but it seems lately we have more who are willing to allow the WS to continue working with the AP and have a zillion and one excuses on why it's OK. I'm never surprised when they find out the A is still ongoing though because I could tell them the details of what is going on during the work day when the WS honestly feels they are on their best behavior.

Hi MelodyLane,

It took me so long to type this that the subject has changed,lol, but this is what I’ve learned about the term “mid-life crisis.” (Please do not read any of this as an excuse for an A. I’m just making an observation.) It does seem like a lot of WW mentioned here are between the ages of 45 – 55, or somewhere thereabouts. I was 46 when I left my family for 10 days to be with FOM. (I had intended to stay longer.) Maybe a lot of us turn mid-life into a crisis. We’ve heard the term so much, and it has been used for years to describe what happens to men when they leave their families and have A’s. Being middle-aged does have its downside - the things stillsad named, plus hormonal havoc, and a myriad of other complaints. There has been real damage done to people’s psyches by calling mid-life a crisis, though. A lot of us bought into it. If we believe in it, we can make it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I have read here about other WW who got tired of being “the good girl” for so long. That’s a lot of what I felt when I left. Of course I now admit how stupid and crazy it was. I also later recognized that I was feeding half a life’s worth of resentment that I hadn’t dealt with in a healthy way. A lot of healthier, wiser, more reasonable people use mid-life as a time to improve their lives and make positive changes (go back to school, or start a new career, for example). In any case, being middle-aged is not any more of an excuse for an A when it’s the W who is wayward than it has been for the decades it has been used as an excuse for men’s As.


God bless,
Rose

Wow Stillsad,

Your sitch echoes mine so much it's uncanny.

My FWW was 52 when she had her A with her POS OM boss who was 12 years junior than her.

I, like you, think mid life crisis was a very big part of it. But I guess we would have to decribe, rather than define what a mid life crisis looks like to a woman who is probably(as was my case)in full blown menepause.

First obvious thing is that the A they choose is what DR. Pittman describes as " affair down. .

They always choose the opposite of you, as in the gentle loving provider. They always go for MR. POS bad guy, as did my W.

So for Mel and others, what does mid life crisis look like:

1. My wife had to subscribe to the CD of the month with all the latest current songs that she would normally not have listened to.

2. I wanted to lease a vehicle for her and choose the 4 door Oldsmobile, when she wanted the two door fire engine red toyota celica with black leather interior and a moon roof.

3. She colored her hair blonde as she was as a youth.

4. Had to have cooooool sunglasses, so spent 84.95 for those.

5. Lost a ton of weight, to the point of regaining her M weight of 118 pounds.

6. Had to be out at least 3 times per month, with friends(15 years younger than her) to the point of obsession.

7. Started to dress provocatively as if she were 18 years old again. Bought a bright orange bikini when she would never have done so, even in her youth. Don't know if she wore it, but live with my unending suspicions.

8. Tanning salons, Oh my yes, that would be a necessity. How can you look cool without a tan?

Stillsad, don't know if any of the above sounds familiar, but that's what it looks like.

Mel, if your reading, look at all of the above!

All Blesings,
Jerry

stillsad – I just wanted to address a few other things you wrote.

“I don't know if my wife has got it straight in her head what a worthless human being he really is...” This is understandable, of course, and I believe she will get it straight, but I hate to tell you it might take a long time.

She may even already realize it, but, like you wrote: “I want my wife to hate him, but I think she doesn't want to believe she had an affair and nearly ruined our lives with someone who didn't really care for her and wanted only to get her pants.”

This is an astute observation. It’s no excuse for her to continue keeping her head in the sand (or another dark place), but I know it was true for me. Again, I KNEW it was true already, and knew it even when I was with FOM, but I could not stand to admit it. I had become very determined to stay in extreme, excruciating denial (and very good at it, too). Denial is a very strong and scary “force” or “emotion” (or whatever it is) when observing it in others, or living in it oneself.

“My wife and I are getting along pretty well I believe, considering what has happened and no more time than has passed, but I get the feeling that she has just kind of given up and decided "oh well this is just how my life is going to be"

This is the part where you can help her learn that her life and your M do not have to go along like it is or like it was. Get MC, read the Harley’s books, do the questionnaires, spend quality time together. Encourage her to find positive ways to change her life (goals, exercise, school, hobbies, vacations, healthy friendships...the sky is the limit).

I’m sorry recovery takes a long time – and even longer for some than for others – and that it will be so one-sided in your M for so long.

“I would like to hear from you FWW on the progression you went through in coming to love your husbands again, or have you? Did you come to despise the other man?”

Oh, my goodness. It has been a rough and tangled road for my DH and me. Even at my foggiest, I knew there was love between my DH and me - there had to be to keep us together for the 26 years we had already been M, and all the cr@p we’d already been through.

But to come out of the fog, and to recover our M, I had to realize that love is a verb – it’s something you do, it’s a choice you make. It’s all about practicing the rules the Harleys recommend (being honest, avoiding lovebusters, etc.). It helps when both spouses are on board, but hopefully, if one person starts, the other will be swept along. It takes a long time to get into this A mess, and unfortunately, it takes time to get out.

As far as FOM goes, I have gone through a lot of emotions, including “despising” him. However, despising him seems to be blaming him entirely for the A, and that’s not accurate, because it takes some of the responsibility away from me. My goal has been to be neutral about him – not to think about him or feel anything for him. I’m just millimeters away from exactly that. Reading this message board probably keeps the A more in my mind than necessary. Only rarely, occasionally, do I wonder about FOM. Mostly I wonder if he’s still M, but it’s easy for me to let any thoughts fly over my head quickly, and not let them build a nest like they could during that first year past d-day. BTW, it's been 6 years since d-day.

God bless,
Rose

To clarify - The reason I sometimes wonder if FOM is still M is to know how much damage was done there, not because I care if he is M or want him to be available. Yick.

Hey Rose, thanks so much for taking the time to explain. Whatever the reason for adultery, the solution is the same: affair proof the marriage. Much of what you described I have seen from 35 year olds so it can be most any reason, but the remedy is the same, IMO.

What puzzled me in the past is when this "reason" was brought up there was never a "therefore.......", the implication was that since it was labeled a "midlife crisis" for behaving just like every other wayward, that it should be treated differently. I don't believe so..

No, I have not considered moving, and unless she asks to do so I probably won't. My train of thought is that I will do my best to create the conditions for her to love me as I have been doing. My wife is a smart woman who made a terrible mistake. I believe she will come to realize this guy is a piece of s**t. She has friends that have told her things she was not aware of and the facts are staring her in the face. I love this woman more than I could possibly describe, but if her love for me does not become strong enough to put this guy out her mind or at least detest him,the I'm not sure we should be together. It is the main reason I started this thread. To get an idea from the fww if there is much chance that she will love me enough that this guy could live next door and not be problem.

By the way it's not like I don't have a lot of triggers myself. I run across this guy occasionally and see him driving around town. I'm trying to take it head on and not let the piece of cr*p dictate how I live my life or hers.

I will be talking to Dr Harley this week and be running a few things by him. We have had about 10 telephone sessions with him already.

Awesome! that is the best thing you can do for your marriage.

Not a FWW spouse, but I think while your anger at POSOM is justified that you are more angry and frustated that your W doesn't still doesn't see him for the scum he is. If her attitude to recovering your M is basically "whatever" that will lead to more resentment down the road. Has your wife shown any signs of remorse or regret to you? Any just compensation at all?

Hi Rose. My wife had also said something along the lines of being the good girl and finally wanting to do something for herself, also resenting a lot of the things I did with out her. While midlife crisis is not an excuse at least it kind of helps you know where you stand. Just as if you realized you where only having sex once every three months, you would know at least one of the things that you need to be working on. I think in the case of mid life crisis it is more in there hands than yours. As I had mentioned before I was doing pretty good as a husband long before the affair, however she used my past treatment to help justify what she did. I have forgiven her, I did from the beginning. She spent a lot of years with a love busting [censored]. Now all I want is for her to love me they way I love her and for the OM to have a funeral.

I don't have any anger just yet that my wife hasn't indicated that the OM is a POS. Frankly I'm not sure what she thinks about him. I haven't asked her. I am a bit frustrated that she still can't say that she loves me with conviction. It's another reason for starting this thread, hopping some of the fww would enlighten me as to how they felt 7 months into recovery and what to expect. She has not shown remorse to the extent that I would like, but I'm not sure how much WW ever show, again a question for the FWW.

Hi Rose. It sounds like maybe your A may have been like my W. I thought early on that my wife might feel so bad about what she did that she would bend over backwards to make it right, boy was I wrong. I practically had to beg her to stay. She would actually get mad, if you want to call it that, when I would be crying, which I did a lot. She was very reluctant to try counseling. I was the one acting as if I had had the affair. Even now small things that I have ask her to do that I have told her makes me feel better she is reluctant. Like just calling me occasionally while I at work. She is very uncomfortable being serious when I tell her I love her and look into her eyes. I actually think things are fairly normal, the difference is that I realize what a great woman I have had all these years and I have become much more caring and and affectionate and want her to feel the same, but I don't see that happening just yet, will it ever? When I look back she has always had difficulty being mentally intimate, her whole family seems to have trouble expressing their feelings, and that seems to be what I crave more than anything now.

I hate to say it but you might be screwed. You have no control of her and she did this to you in light of all that you were doing to make the M work. You have more damage you could do to her than him. Expose the A to EVERYONE you can. This will prevent her from EVER doing it again if she cares about her reputation at all. I sent a scathing email to his work because the A took place at the company. His career is ruined, don't know what else you can do other than sue him for Alienation of Affection and he sounds judgement proof. Good luck!!

ACtually if the aqffair is over and he cares about his wife and her reputation, no further exposure is necessary and would actually be harmful.