Hi everyone,
sorry I haven't been keeping up with the thread for a few days, my father-in-law turned up on Wednesday and we have been busy with him and with Lils birthday and then there is DD16, she has been causing more than her fair share of problems.(probably my falut).

But anyway I'm here now, for a few minutes.
I have just looked quickly at the posts and I am going to have to read them again.

I am not ignoring you, I am simply busy with my family. I am sure you all understand that.

FIL leaves today and DD16 is back to school tonight, so the world is slowing down again.


Regards

Hi

I finally got back to read all of the posts and far out there is a lot of stuff in there to think about.

The idea that Lil wants me to express my hate for the OW is fair, it is also unrealistic at this time. It is likely to remain unrealistic for a long time to come. It is not that I admire the OW, it is just that hate is such a strong emotion that it takes constant work to keep it up. Just like love needs to be worked on and maintained. What I'm trying to say is that to remain in a state of hate towards the OW I would have to constantly think about OW in a negitave way, I think my time is going to be better spent by thinking about Lil in a possitive way. So the idea that indifference is as far as most waywards can go is looking like a good theory to me. Now let me tell you that although I do not hate the OW I do hate what she (and I) did. My thoughs about the OW are limited, they do not center on the physical aspects of the A, they are more general and are more in relation to MY experiences, just like the way anyone would think about any event in the past. I guess these are just things that I have to try and remove from my thoughts.

I am going to make a few changes to replies I give to Lil when she asks me about OW. Up till now I have only really said that the only thing OW was good at was in the bedroom, this was really meant to say that OW was not good at very much at all, what Lil was hearing was that she was no good this was not a very good result. I am now going to stop saying that OW was good at anything, and that is actually pretty close to the truth, she was selfish and mean and not just to me but to just about everyone around her. How did I fall for THAT!

I love Lil and I will do anything for her.

Interesting Flick - I do not believe my wife after 3 years hates the OM either. She, like you, hates what they did but indifference comes close.

I think this is realistic.

"I am going to make a few changes to replies I give to Lil when she asks me about OW. Up till now I have only really said that the only thing OW was good at was in the bedroom, this was really meant to say that OW was not good at very much at all, what Lil was hearing was that she was no good this was not a very good result. I am now going to stop saying that OW was good at anything, and that is actually pretty close to the truth, she was selfish and mean and not just to me but to just about everyone around her. How did I fall for THAT!

I love Lil and I will do anything for her."

YAY FLICK!!!!!! This make me feel so much better!!!!!!!! And now I do understand what you meant by the only thing OW was good at. I didn't realize that before.

Take care, and prayers to you and yours.

I would much prefer that Ike feel indifference toward the OW than hate. Hate implies strong emotions and I want him to feel nothing for her. Therefore indifference is a wonderful thing.

Yes, spot on, my thoughts exactly. why waste effort on hating someone when you can put that effort into loving someone who is going to love you back.

Yes i am Flick - not Lil, she just went to bed and I am going there too.


Flick

This IS Lil, not Flick

I love you Flick

xx

Ain't that sweet? I am a lucky guy.

I have had a tuff few days.
I have cleared out the last of the stuff from my foster fathers home. It was a sad and stressful couple of days watching everything get packed into boxes and then loaded onto the truck. It was almost like having him die all over again, the finallity of his death was driven home. I was pleased to lock the door and get on the road back to Lil and home.
Then on Thursday all of the furniture and stuff arrived here and it all got unpacked and sorted. We will be sorting this stuff out for a while yet.
Seeing all of his things here was hard on both of us and a few times we just had to stop and take a few minutes to hug each other and regain our composure.
The whole experiance has made me a little bit agitated. I have been a bit blunt and snappy with Lil, only a little but that is still a little bit too much. I have tried to be extra nice to her when I realise that I have been a bit sh!tty, I think she understands, I guess I should talk to her about it.

Apart from that stuff things have been going fairly well.
We have started to make some employment plans for next year when we move away from fulltime farming, well when Lil moves away from full time farming. We are going to both work part time for part of the year and work a seasonal job for another part of the year. That will give us an income that will keep the bills paid and leave enough money to have fun and enough time so that we can get out and have that fun. In truth it sounds like a perfect plan but I am nervious about the change, I know it can be great but I fear that there is a real potential for it all to fall in a heap and be a bit of a disaster for us. Everything has risk, we know that, I guess it is just a matter of watching what is happening and if things are going pear shaped (financially) then we need to change the plan to fix things.

Lil sort of told me off today. She said it had been 14 days scince my last post on MB. She wants me to post more. I did agree to post regularly when I came home, so it is only fair that she kick me for not doing that.
I am tired and I am going to bed - it has been a long day, several long days. I am going to sleep zzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzz ZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ

Flick:

I haven't posted to you in a while.

Lots of interesting stuff on your thread.

I'll start with posting. Lil thinks you should be posting more?
I would think you need to have a discussion about that. Flamingo has never posted here and never will. Many posters NEVER get to more that 25. Putting this stuff on this site, truthfully, puts it out there for ALL to see. And, for guys especially, it kind of hard to open up that way. In spite of that, you still do. That's a plus. You can use this site to explore what YOU need to explore, or just provide a guage to where you were to where you are to where you are going.

Recovery is a marathon, not a sprint. This thread can be your stopwatch to HOW you are doing.

That said, maybe Lil's request that you POST MORE, shows that you are backsliding in your recovery efforts somewhat?

Changing our very natures is hard. And since we were wayward, we have a LOT of bad habits and behaviors to change. And it is SO EASY to slide back down that slope to some of those same habits and behaviors. Doesn't mean that we end up in an A, it just means that some of those habits and behaviors are starting to seep back in. And that can be VERY Troubling for the BS to see. Your not protecting yourself. And that's maybe why Lil asks you to post more. To reinforce those boundaries, Habits and Behaviors.

You asked about WHAT you still need to do to earn the "F"?

Folks have pointed out that you should no longer be protecting the OW, and maybe you should feel "hate" towards her.

A very valid point about the "hate". To "hate" her is an active emotion. Indifference is truly the best state to get to, and how I feel about my OW after 3 some years. Flamingo may still hate the OW, and she is allowed to. And there are many things about the OW that make me angry now. However, I went in eyes open. So did she. She and I, were intent on destroying many things. It may not have been intentional in the beginning, but the continuance of it certainly moved it closer to the bulldozer of destruction. My actions during that time were bent on destroying the family that I had, and all my morals. I realize that now.

And that's how you earn your "F" You admit/understand and correct those things in yourself that allowed you to persue destruction of your family. And your betrayed spouse can see it everyday, that you are no longer persuing those actions.

Or, you can ask Lil. Just because SHE tells you what SHE needs to earn your "F", doesn't mean that you didn't earn it. And we out here are just guessing, otherwise. Each couple has what IT needs to recover. Kiwi, and BigK, needed what they needed. Flamingo and I needed what WE needed. Lil and Flick? may need many of the same things to happen, but there are particular things that you two need.

LG

Hello everybody

I'm back. Well actually I never left I just stopped posting for a few weeks.

Fair go if anyone had told me how this year was going to turn out I might have been tempted to book a year long holiday to avoid the whole year. But if there is one thing i have learnt this year it is this, 'running away will not fix anything'.

I tried to run away from a marriage that needed fixing, and guess what, it still needed fixing when I came back home.

Lil says we are four and a half months into recovery. It seems like longer, not because it is a drag or anything like that, but because I feel so very happy and comfortable here at home and when I am with Lil. I thought it would take a long time to feel this happy and settled again.

I'm not saying that everything is perfect, it is not. It is getting better and better and we now have a marriage that is working, it still needs a good tune-up to get the most out of it.

Last month was a bit of a failure as far as spending time together, there was just so much other stuff going on that we never seemed to get any real time together, this month is off to a good start and should continue to be good. It was just one of those months when nothing went right (Lil has told the story, so I won't retell it).

I had a great experiance the other day, I was driving along and I realised that I had forgotten OWs name, not her first name but her surname was just not there and I felt quite good about that. I kept on feeling good about it until I suddenly remembered her name, that really pissed me off. I know that as time goes on I will forget more and more about the A and about OW and I'm looking forward to that.

Lil and I are getting ready for a 'toy run' this weekend. A big group of motorbikes spend the day riding through several towns in our area collecting toys for kids who might not get anything for Christmas otherwise. It takes most of the day and that means that I get to spend most of the day with Lil hanging on to me, I like that! Also we get to spend the day talking to each other and we will talk about a whole big heap of nothing mostly, you know just chatting about nothing, I like that too!

Well I was going to do a big post but I am having a hard time getting my thoughts down in words today.

It's good to see you here. I'm glad to hear you are putting 15+ hours together back up on the priority list. It's easy to let it slip when things go crazy in life. And you've had plenty of crazy with all you've been dealt the last few months with your daughter.

You've mentioned that you received an inheritance. Would you consider using some of that inheritance to "tune-up" your marriage at an MB weekend? It could very well turn out to be the best investment you could make.

You could make it a nice vacation for the two of you starting it with an MB weekend.

Any thoughts?

Hi, Flick.

I too, am a FWS, having confessed to my BH 5 weeks ago. I just finished reading this post from the beginning. You are an inspriation to me as I try to repair my marriage. And you and Lil are to be commended for all the work you're putting into your relationship. Thank you for posting and letting us follow your struggles, successes, and ongoing recovery. Us other waywards can learn from and gather strength from your experience. Thank you.

I wish you and your family all the best.

-Looking4

Hi Looking4

Thanks for your reply, it has been a hard four and a half months, but well worth it.
I have not read your posts, so I don't know your story - I will take a look later (I'm keeping Lil off the computer at the moment - it is her turn).
I am interested in the fact that you are already calling yourself a FWS. After 4.5 months of recovery I still am not regarded as F, just a WS. Have you earned your F? I think I am getting close but still not there yet.
Just something for you to think about, and like I said I don't know your story yet.

Hey tst
nice to hear from you again.
I have an opinion (and thoughts) on just about everything
My thoughts on your suggestion are

1) Great idea.
2) We are already making one trip to the States early next year and our time is too short to fit in any thing beyond what we have planned already
3) The majority of my inheritance is not cash. It is investments and property, and with the present economic situation it would be foolish to cash any of it in at the moment. I am not saying that our investments are more important than our marriage, I make investment decissions in consoltation with Lil and we are in agreement.
4)With the up coming change in our employment and general lifestyle it is important to protect our investments.

Are MB weekends held anywhere else apart from USA? Where can I find a list of upcoming weekends?

I think this is something that Lil and I would be keen to look at a little further down the track, when we are a little more settled after we get off this farm and have some real time to do our own thing.

I'm a self-proclaimed, FWS, Flick. But my husband telling me that he "believes me" when I answer his questions, is a big step that helps me believe I deserve the "F".

I know what happened. I know how I got into the affair mess. I know how it ended. And I know what I am doing and what my husband is doing to make sure I don't ever do it again. I'm learning and living MBs, I'm in therapy, I'm praying, communicating O&H with my H, and confessing to friends, family, and church members who can help me stay honest. Radical Honesty is my mantra. I know I can't ever, ever, ever hurt anyone again as I have hurt my H. And I don't ever want to feel like I did during, after, and since the affair -- the guilt, remorse, shame, lack of self-respect, hurt, disgrace... I will never do it again. Nothing is worth the pain I've caused so many people, and the loss of dignity, integrity, friendships, and possibly my family that I'm experiencing... I know I'm a FWS as long as I stay honest about my ENs and everything else, whether my H stays with me or not.

My story: Cheated on my then BF in 1992. Married BF in 1994. We've been dating (off and on) or married 25 years. Started drifting apart when 5-year-old was born. Married co-worker with 3 kids told me Feb '08 that he was attracted to me and had been for 18 months. Totally unsuspected. (We had been good friends for 5 years.) We live two time zones away but would be on same business trips 2 to 3 times a year. I denied him a couple of advances. We started talking, IMing, texting, and emailing more. I shared with the OM (a Christian like me) my broken marriage stories. Started the EA. Became a PA when we were on a trip in April. We both felt guilt and fought the attraction. He wanted to stay with his wife, I needed to fix or end my M. We cooled it the end of May/early June. OM's BW discovered the PA 6/21. NC text from them to me that same day. Last contact occured 7/24 when I learned I was going to be laid off and I wanted to know what co-workers knew of our affair. (OM and I had be on work-related email threads and on conference calls but never one-on-one after 6/21.) OM and BW replied to my email together. That was final contact. I confessed to my BH 10/26 of last spring's PA and confessed to my pre-marriage infidelity 10/29. Working like crazy to stay married to BH.

Good luck to you.

And I am a self-proclaimed astronaut, it dosent mean I'm going up to the space station anytime soon - or ever.

I firmly believe that the F should come from the BS, not the WS. Only the BS can truely see the changes that have occured outwardly, you may have chaged a lot of things inside of you but it is all for nothing if those changes are not showing on the outside, where other people can see them.


Yes your A had a big impact on your life. But it is nothing compared to what you made other people go through. I hope you continue to feel shame for a long time to come, you should, everytime you think of the A you should feel shame and guilt, and use those feelings as tools to protect your family from another shameful event. I still feel shame and guilt, even though my marriage is in a wonderful recovery, they serve me as reminders of why I am still having to put in the extra effort and go the extra mile for my W.

Oh this world is full of "Christians like me" and you and your OM an my OW and the list could be very very long. Being a Christian makes very little difference. When you are sinning and outside of Gods will for your life it may as well be a plastic badge on your shirt, it is just a label, it won't help you or me! The only thing that can truely help us is the grace of God when it is our time to be judged.
A sinning Christian and a sinning non-Christian, which one is better?

Hey good luck with everything. I do hope you see a glorious recovery in your marriage. Just remember that your H is angry with you because you did a bad thing. It will take him quite some time to recover from that and you are the one who will have to show him that it is worth his while. Is he also doing MB? I hope he is.

Thanks for that.

Flick, I've seen so much progress in you the past few months. That makes me happy for you and for for Lil. She seems to be an amazing woman, and with all she's had going on, she needs you now more than ever.

I pray for your recovery to continue.