I believe there is always more to the story. I've learned that there are variables in place that prevent him from being totally honest. Like, maybe, he's an A$$!!! But, yes, there's always room for more.

As for total exposure...done deal. I've spoken to many family members, including his mother and mine as well as several of our friends & neighbors. I also called her sister who lives up North and apprised her of the "suicide" attempt and the relentless carrying on by her sick sibling. I've made no bones about the fact that i fell my husband was an equal participant, but that SHE needed to deal with the fragility of her sister, not H.

The sister has called me a few times already today. Last night when we originally spoke she had a very nice and accepting/apologitic tone. Amazingly today she is a bit hostile and accusatory. Gee, I wonder who she spoke to and what she was fed? So, she has requested that H call her directly so the two of them can figure out exactly HOW to deal with nutty OW/sister. I told her I'd pass along the messege but doubted he'd comply. I was right...he thought it was interesting that she called me again twice but thought it sent the wrong messege to OW. ding, ding, ding, ding!!! You see, sometimes in a moment of clarity they get a little nugget!

So, H does not plan on calling her back tonight. So he says. I will concentrate on my son's honors convocation and try to emerse myself in pride for him!

Don't take anymore phone calls from nut's sister. She's been informed, let her deal with OW's drama and be done. Where are you and WH at this point?

This is what her sister asked her to do. Then they can negotiate more contact.

No contact for life.

This event set you back to day one of withdrawal and recovery. And the whole event reeks of something more.

If he succumbs to any more contact I would set him on the porch like the Flintstone cat, make sure the windows are closed and set right into Plan B.

Good question...where are we?

We battered and bruised but still with a beating heart. My faith in him is nil. He knows this and must claw us both out of the hole he's in. I've told him that if he even thinks she's done with him he's nuts.

I suppose you could call him remorseful and full of shame. But, we still have a disconnect on intentions. He feels he had the right intention but the wrong approach. DUH?!!

I just got off the phone with a IC. I will see her on Tuesday and she's also able to see H and I together. There's no insurance for this so I'm thinking I'll go one week then the next time we can go together. My anger right now is out of control. I actually was able to rip the side view mirror off his car. That sounds stupid saying it, but I have the bruises on my hand to prove it. Now, if only I could translate some of that physical to emotional strength.

Response to OW's sister should have been - "She's not my husband's problem - and if she calls again, I will be calling 911, or a cop to stop her harassment. Please make that clear to your sister, this time and for the next time she gets involved with a married man!"

Are you able to acknowledge that this might be a full blown PA? Have you asked your H for a polygraph?

What was the story the other morning you woke up at 5am and he wasn't there?

Ditto.

I'm so sorry you're going through this fiori. He clearly doesn't get it still.

Now that you have exposed, is there a close friend or family member that you can call on for support? Looking at your siggy, it's been almost 1 yr that you are dealing with this crap and you're ripping cars apart fiori and have made zero progress to restore your marriage. You need to draw the line before you are completely wiped out. Have you considered plan B at all?

Fiori, did you mean to write this? email(s) as in plural? Does this mean there have been more? Are you SURE that your WH has been totally honest with you about contact? He sure wasn't honest about the OW's move to his building. I'd bet there's been face-to-face contact.

I agree with the others, there's more here than what you've been told.

OW is clearly unstable. I don't get why she would threaten suicide all the sudden over an EA though, especially if they haven't had contact in awhile. Sounds to me like your insistence on contacting HR backfired on your WH big time. If they had been having contact all along, maybe a visit from HR is what set her off. She didn't see it coming?

You say you're ready to give up on the MB plans? If you think about it sweetie, you've been modifying the plans to suit your own situation (i.e., no contact letter being withheld, AP continuing to work together, etc.) This hasn't worked. The MB plans DO work when followed as directed.

Now, for your own sanity, maybe it's time for Plan B until your WH is ready to commit to the marriage (and YOU!). Placing OW's needs ahead of yours is not being committed to the marriage. Sneaking out in the middle of the night to come to her aid is not being committed to the marriage.

((((Fiori)))) I feel your pain through your words.

You don't need to stay in this place. Settle this thing. Once and for all.

Dear Fiori (and hi to everyone else),

Please read my very long post to Tully on her "what to do when the other woman won't give up" thread. You must understand why this is already a renewed PA and what is at stake if you do not withdraw from the drama right now until your H has found another job and satisfied you that NC is a reality.

Stop trying to make NC happen by your actions. All that is happening is that he is becoming more deceptive. NC has to become his own personal objective. Go into Plan B as soon as you have sorted out the legal and financial ramifications and put the onus on him to ask you to come back to him only when he can prove to you that NC is established.

My heart aches for you.

Sugar.

OW is clearly a Bunny Boiler link 1 and link 2

When was the last time WH saw Fatal Attraction? Maybe it's time to rent that DVD.

This is my favorite thing anyone has ever said to me! Thanks...in this moment of insanity it felt good to smile.

To all of you...I can't see me doing Plan B. I'm a chicken. I have no where else to go and I'm sooooo afraid that if I make him go he'll go to her. And, then there is the embarrassment of it all. I know...smack me now. But, I simply cannot do it. I also cannot live like this any longer and I know this to be true. Honestly, I'm not sure WHAT to do right now. My mother fed-exed me a check today for $1500. I suppose she's got a plan.

As for a PA...it does not seem to be the case but I'm not sure. This has been corroborated by a few sources but who ever really knows. I wish I had the answers. I'll ask about a lie detector, but I don't see this ever happening. First, I'm going to work on ME. Then, I'll look around and see what's left to deal with. I pray constantly for him to get another job. Please, please, please. I know that's no guarantee, but it is a start. I told him today -- until you have left the job or she has left the job, there will be absolutely NO progress on our part. If you'd like to remain here as a roommate then fine...but I'm NOT letting you off the hook or being an enabler any longer. It's time to sh** or get off the pot!! (my grandmothers old saying.)

Meg,
No, I meant it. Because H is an AVP for a certain dept., he has to occassionally recieve updates from the other area's in order to fully process the info from his area. She slowed down a bit on her persuit when he forcefully told her to take a hike. H firmly believes that even if she persues him hard and furiously, if he's not interested in her romantically then her efforts will be in vain. I totally disagree.

But, he was continuing to get strictly work related emails from her about a certain project one of H's employees and she were tending to. I saw the email on the dining room table and was very angry. We went round and round and then he agreed with MC that it was absolutely necessary to have a paper trail of the stuff she does against his wishes. So, he went to her boss on Friday and make a second request to have her spoken to regarding contacting him in any way. Boss said he'd speak with her and they also established a dump mailbox where any and all requests pertaining to the two groups combining efforts would go to one spot and H would have his employees be on a rotating shift to answer these types of exchanges. This is why/how she went off. She realized after several attempts that he was not responding. Normally if she did try he would have another one of his employees take care of it. I suppose this enabled her to realize he got the email, just ignored her. So, when the system changed and he would be deleted from the distribution list, she lost it. He has her email address blocked as spam and it's automatically dumped. Apparently this was not appreciated.

So, the phone call went....'my brother hates me, my sister and I don't get along, my husband left me, my mother died and now you're leaving me too. You are my friend and you are telling me you'll never speak to me. All the people I care about leave me...I'm going to kill myself". So, my question to him was, If she was really going to kill herself why did she make a grand announcement first? Usually people who are planning to take their own lives do not seek out a sucker unless they really are looking for attention.

Approach your WH from a different angle ...

.... I don't like this much .... it's far too vague

Refer to OW as "The Bunny Boiler" when speaking to WH .... state that BB is dangerous .... repeat for emphasis

SHE IS DANGEROUS AND MENTALLY UNSTABLE

Remind WH it is his job to protect his wife and kids from DANGEROUS individuals - and you have a strict "NO BUNNY BOILER POLICY"

If he's going to rescue people - it needs to be you and the kids

repeat to him

SHE IS UNSTABLE AND DANGEROUS .... WE NEED YOUR PROTECTION .... CALL 911 IF SHE EVER TRIES TO PUSH HER DANGEROUS TENDENCIES BACK INTO THIS FAMILY

Draw a circle on a piece of paper .... put yourself and the kids inside the circle ... then draw BB far away from the circle and draw WH half way between the circle and BB .... tell WH that he has left the family to go be with BB .... is that REALLY his choice?

All your hesitation and fears of plan B are completely undrestandable and relatable.
The question isnt can you do it? The question isnt what happens if you do it?

The Question is what happens if you dont do it?

I noticed in your signature line that you said 500th d day so I am assuming that you have still more D days that you (self proclaimed chicklen little ) have the courage to deal with . I admire your courage with dealing with them. I for one could barely stand upright after one let alone be strong enough to stand up and let some one knock me down again.
Sorry for the :twobyfour: but I guess you should sit tight do nothing and keep counting until you reach your threshold of maximum number of Ddays that you can take and then redirect some of that courage that you do indeed have towards helping you stop continuning to be a BS.

start :twobyfour:
From my window into your house it seems like the Pot is pretty crowded in your house.
end :twobyfour:

No, that was typed in a moment of anger & frustration. It just feels that since they are still working for the same company, every day he goes to work feels like a d-day for me. I cannot believe how much he's hurt and disappointed me.

Question...now that we've all established the fact that I have a bunny boiler on my hands, do I send the NC letter? Obviously there will be no actual NC until he or she leave the company, but it has to be stated in writing that he has no intentions of going with her. Will this tip her off into a rage? Will she potentially make trouble for him at work? Am I taking a chance that way too big?

Fear is normal. But regardless of what you do or don't do, there are only a few possible scenarios that WILL happen, like it or not. He's either going to (a) continue to cake eat, (b) leave you for her, or (c) leave her for you. You already know how painful option a is. This is what he wants. Eventually you will break down and probably drive him to option b. And guess what - all the things you are afraid of in Plan B (him going to her, where you are going to go, the embarrassment, how you are going to live etc.), they all apply here. You want option c. You can't control his choices and right now you aren't even asking him to choose. But you can make your own choices. You can choose not to be destroyed by option a any longer. You can put the choice to him - is it b or c? Yes, he could try b for a while but you already know she's a nutcase. If he's got the choice between the bunny boiler vs an intact you, what do you think he's going to do? The key is - you have to be intact. The healthier you are, the better and more clearer this choice is for him to make.

And the thing is, when HE makes the choice, he will be far more likely to stick to it. It's easy to sneak around behind someone else's back. It's far more difficult to sneak around yourself.

I know you are afraid. But many of the things you fear will happen anyway - either under or out of your control. Take control - it's empowering.

So, do I mail the NC letter that he wrote or not?

Wow, Tabby excellent post.

If I can add to it...

Fiori, I read something here a very good poster had written that had said something about moving to Plan B when you have lost the ability to not LB. Do you think you are to that point? It sounds like you are frequently LBing.

I don't know how mentally you would be to control LBers anymore. Every day was a struggle not to LB for me in Plan A and I barely made it through a few weeks.

I have a good friend who experienced exactly what Tabby is warning you about. She LB'd her cake-eating WH following D-day for about two years. Well, he did eventually leave her for OW, and she is still struggling emotionally more than five years later... When I told her about my H's EA and about how I found MB, about Plan A/Plan B, she told me she wished she had known.

I think worrying about whether to send the NC letter at this point is not seeing the forest for the trees...

True. Get your whole plan together. When you are ready to act, then send the letter. Not before or else he won't take you seriously. Your last communication to him before going dark is the letter. Then there really is no contact until he meets the conditions of the letter. You can't maintain darkness if there are still other loose ends to tie up.