Well,by coming here and reading suggested material,you have certainly taken the first step,Echo. It's a long road. I have traveled a long road for quite sometime and it wasn't always easy. I look back now at all the years in IC now still in IC and now MC,I'm glad I did it. It's not easy and mistakes were made but I will always be glad I did it. You will be too.

Souldragon, I wonder sometimes why H treats me the way he does. If he walks out of his favorite bakery with warm bread and sees a homeless, he hands out his bread right away. If he sees a small animal hurt, he will do whatever he can to help and feel so sad to see it die. He volunteers for food banks and on charities, so why he does what he does to me? I told him sometimes he treats me as his enemy. He told me I am out of my mind.

H is very sentimental, he still has his first teddy bear which he kept in his nightstand. He goes out of his way to do things for me that he likes in his way. So he is not evil, we speak to each other yet we don't hear.

I promised myself not to be like my mom. Looking back, my dad treated my mom in a very emotionally abusive way, which was never physical. My mom has been bitter all her life and she attacked my dad at every single opportunity. I was never allowed to be a child with them. I always wanted a family of my own which I need and feel needed. But meanwhile, I never trusted anyone well enough to fall back on as I never had such a person in my life.

That's exactly why you need to get into IC. It will help you detach what you do today from what was done to you in the past. Move forward. We are not saying he is a bad person; we're saying he is a potentially dangerous person if he is allowed to continue this way and his 'control' over your lives gets stronger and stronger. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to fix it. Until you really ARE like your mother.

Aileen....I do understand...
It cuts so much deeper than you realize.

There is REAL damage there from your family of origin FOO. There is also an unhealthy pattern in your H's.[ What's healthy anyways? Humans are a dysfunctional lot...so don't worry]

IC will help you with that, but as catperson stated before..someone WELL versed in Abuse issues. Get Bancroft's book...and you will find your H in there.

Lundy outline's 10 main types of abusers and they flow in the continuum.
1. The Demand Man
2. Mr. Right
3. The Water Torturer
4. The Drill Sergeant
5. Mr. Sensitive
6. The Player
7. Rambo
8. The Victim
9. The Terrorist
10. The Mentally or addicted abuser.

* An abuser may change so much from day to day that he couldn't belong to any type. This style of abuser is so unpredictable that his partner can never make sense out of what she is living with. Bancroft

He needs real help...also from one that specializes in abuse.

MC will only light a hotter fire under you. Counter productive in abuse situations.

My dad was horrid to my mom. My mom slowly died inside. Promised I would NEVER be like my mom...LOL...I understand her now..and it's not very pretty. Somehow managed to marry the only man that was ever abusive to me. Lord...*rolls eyes*

In IC comes out, that we often marry those problems that we were never able to heal in childhood, and want to heal them now....so far, not so good...but getting better. Sort of.

Aileen, please don't make excuses for injuries to your children that should NOT have happened when 3 adults were around. Calling your kids 'F*cking pieces of sh*t"....is NOT a small thing. It's downright shocking and revolting. They are BABIES.

After the last several years of neglect from your H over your well being...you have perhaps grown numb? Expect nothing from him , that way, you can't be disappointed. However...where your children are concerned...your deeper self is screaming.

In all honesty..as the Mother to those children.. should he ever harm them...I don't doubt your ability to protect them...rather I would fear for him and the consequences to yourself. Never underestimate your own capacity for harm when that which is precious to you is being attacked.

He hasn't pushed that button in you...yet...but then the 911 call would not be for you...but for him.

* Don't ever mention the word "Abuse" to him nor let him see you reading any books on Abuse. He will TURN it around on You!!!!
You can never MAKE him SEE anything....lose that thought...it won't work. In this area they choose to be blind. He only "sees" when you threaten to leave him. <---That is your power play. Don't over use it.
Agreed^^^
Stop ENABLING him to abuse you. Twisted isn't it? I am not pointing a finger here...I didn't SEE it in the beginning either.
ie. When going through the IVF treatments and he would not wait for your procedure: You COULD have told him...he darn well better wait for you or he could forget about it!!!

..But you didn't. Why didn't you?

I am NOT trying to make you feel badly...PLEASE know that. It's so much easier from the outside looking in to SEE...not when you are caught up in the storm. It's hard to see anything clearly in the whipping winds and rain of an emotional typhoon. So you just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
..because ...you let him.

He has developed a habit of getting his way with you. It has worked well so far...any changes will be very difficult as he will use the children, hormones whatever to justify it. He won't look at the REAL cause. He will Deny it. He will DENY it until you LEAVE him...then his eyes will start to flutter open...for a short time...

SO: In short. To get off that merry go round, HE NEEDS COUNSELING. As do you...to find out what allows you to justify putting up with his baloney.

Remember this; it's important:

YOU have the power. To tell him THIS doesn't work. THAT doesn't work. I don't care how your parents did this, if you loved me, you would take care of ME, not them. I won't tolerate this any more.

Where you trip up (like all of us) is that you wait for his response to tell you how to feel. If he gets offended by your reach for power, for self-respect, then you back down. It's what he has trained you to do.

If you keep backing down, you will end up dead, or worse.

You may recall a woman here in Houston who drowned her 5 children. Do you know why she did? Because he was abusing her, and she saw no way out, other than to save her children from HIM. I knew that man. I worked with him. I had dinner with him. He was friends with my best friends. He intentionally alienated her from her family, friends, work, outside activities, to the point that she was totally dependent on him.

This can happen to you, too, if you don't protect yourself. It is brainwashing. Stop it now.

So I was changing the appointment on THursday from couple therapy to individual therapy, as he was the one to make the couple therapy appointment, he had to call in to cancel first. Though he questions why we don't go couple counseling, he cancelled it as requested and I am on for Thursday.

We are planning the Xmas vacation in Hawaii to be with my sister's family. As expected, his complaints started pouring in "why don't you book flights, try with my elite membership with NW to see if we can get free tickets. WHy don't you look for a place for us to stay. WHy don't your sister take care of the kids so that we can have some fun alone. This sounds like a lot of work. etc etc". Meanwhile he called up his parents and told them that he would bring at least one child to Belgium in March, and all of us will be there for next Xmas. I only agreed on the xmas part and told him we would see if we were comfortable in each taking one child and going back to our own families separately.

The truth is, I am not comfortable and I don't think I will be comfortable by next spring. Inlaws love our boys but I don't agree with their ways of caring for the kids (yes you can call me overly protective but that is what a mom does). H's mom always asks when we will send kids to Belgium for one month or two, H also often says we should just ship them off to have some alone time. I told him no each time and even told his parents to the face this is not possible before they turn 3 or 4 years old. So when H was proposing taking one child to Belgium, I said you would bring him back with you. He said I am out of my mind to think that he would not, and told me it really hurts him that I don't trust him.

Well I don't.

I think about him taking one child in the spring everyday and feel nausious to just think about it. So in the middle of him complaining the complexity of Hawaii vacation, I told him let's make it clear this is a family vacation we agreed on, you are not going to use it later to say now we have to go to Belgium as we already spent time with your family. He got offensive right away "I am doing it as a compromise so that I can go back to my family next spring. YOu agreed on it and now you are going back to your own decision. THis is so classic of you and you always do this to me. I already gave up to going to Belgium this Xmas and now you are saying I can't go next Spring either? It is all about you! You only gave it a little then you change you mind and take it all back!!"

I calmly explained I only agreed on next Xmas and I would like to take kids to China to see my mom next Spring. I reminded him he has only seen my mom once while I see his family on multiple times a year basis. Here it goes "I can't talk to you. That is why we need marriage counseling." He went on and on about how I don't care about how he feels. I told him I won't go this year as we just went in June and his parents were here twice. We can go to Belgium once a year, maybe China every the other year. This is very fair and if you try to force me further, I will go back to China every single year.

He started yelling that I get him depressed. I suddently lost it and starte screaming "you drive me crazy. I have been trying so hard to make you happy that I made myself very unhappy!!"

Amazingly he did not yell back. He murmured that I should not have agreed to it in the first place (which I replied I did NOT agree to that). He kept going that we needed marriage therapy and I should change my THursday appointment back to couple counseling. I told him I will go ahead with IC, if he wants marriage counseling, he can schedule it with a different therapist. He said then I will go back to my own therapist, why don't you come with me? I told him I will NOT go to his therapist for marriage counseling. He said I need to be there to tell him what his problems are as he has no idea.

Through the conversation I was cooking breakfast, I tried to feed boys who refused to eat. So I made H a plate, he said "I am not hungry". My immediate reaction is to cater him with a different breakfast but I stopped myself and said "fine I will eat it then". So I sat down with a child in my lap and ate the omelet together with my boy.

I love him (still) but I really don't like him.

Maybe you could write a letter and Seal it for him to give the therapist?
S/He will get a better idea of why you refuse?
Could you create a list of pro's/con's for yourself?
Stay/Go?

Ok changing the signin name obviously does not invalidate the link. It is fine.

Here is H's reply:

"I have read this and I’m saddened. I’m saddened by the responses of these people before they even hear the other side. It’s like a whole community of people is talking bad about me behind my back. "

So dear husband, if you are reading this, feel free to jump in.

"before they even hear the other side."

I don't understand this statement. Is it that from his perspective there are additional details that would JUSTIFY his treatment of you and your kids? Wow.

My H justified his physical confromtation with our then DD10 in MC by saying that I had yelled at her for years. That was horrible, I deeply regret that, and I would not do that today. But that is all the more reason he should have been kind and loving to her, and not mistreat her as well.

Explain that..
Actions...speak louder than words. There is a justification possible for such lack of insight? Lack of empathy and compassion for your wife's pain and discomfort?
I would like to hear it...
You have a VOICE...use it.
BUT...you won't...because to DO so...Bursts the bubble of Denial.

Nobody here is in Love with you, has made a life with you, had your babies....Your Actions, speak for themselves. Your Actions are Deplorable, self centered, selfish....and quite honestly not justifiable in way shape or form other than they were to suit your own agenda.

There is always more than one perspective in any situation...what's yours?
I have heard that....1000 times....still doesn't justify being punched or thrown...but fighting back IS. <--Now,...he is 'sad' because ....what? He threw the first punch?

We got married after each stepped out of previous marriage. We promised each other we would do our best and try to be successful this round.

I did not do that because I felt his pain, I cared about anything that would bring him discomfort in his mind, anything I could do to minimize his pain, I would do it without hesitation.

I did not do that because we both had busy jobs.

I did not do that because I was independent, I was used to handle things myself, and most importantly, I was too proud. If a woman was going through as such to bring the most wonderful gift to the husband, a baby, it is not too much to expect some spontaneous caring, is it?

At 1pm I got the following message from H:
"I think we both have our issues to work on, and we need couples as well, to learn how to communicate with eachother. We both have strong personalities and we both can rub eachother the wrong way if we’re not careful, and yes our “baggage” of what has happened in the past doesn’t help. But it would probably be best to make our individual therapy about healing ourselves, and the couples therapy where we can talk with, and about, eachother, with eachother present.

The lack of compassion that that comment refers to I really believe is nothing more than protection from pain (on both sides), I’m not worried about that. You and I are good people by nature, as most people are, and it is their experiences that shape their interaction. I believe we both have strong personalities (2 PhD engineers, it doesn’t take a genious to figure it out), and we have both been hurt by the past events in our own way, and are both in a period of pain and recovery and figuring out how to get over this period. It is a normal process, and many of the things we perceive as problems these days (like sometimes when we don’t communicate well, assumptions we both make sometimes, etc) stem directly from that. Healing process for both can take a while, so it’s just a process we are both going through and we will get guidance on how to go through it for ourselves while respecting that the other person is going through the same process (possibly at a faster or slower speed). Anyway I read all of that on a website and it seems to make sense to me.

Looking forward to the journey baby. Keep in mind that “words” are what our mind makes up with the purpose of making sense out of feelings. It’s easy to grab a catchline sentence and spin it and feel sad about it, (I do it all the time) but let’s keep the big picture in mind. That’s hwy I say I’m not so worried about some of these statements: the sentence itself sounds scary and hard to come to grip with, but if you think about it a bit and think about our past experience, you see how people grow this way due to having a hard time coping with past pain (I’m talking about the Belgium thing in our relationship, not anything before we met eachother). So if you put it in perspective it becomes clear that this statement may or may not be true, but it’s not a reflection of who we are, simply of what we went through. Therapy will help us heal."

I did not reply as I knew sth different will come along. After a silent car ride home, there it came:
"I would like you delete your blog. It is not nice to talk about bad things about me in public. You were not being respectful towards my ex by calling her a half blind person. You have so much anger in your message. Obviously you have issues with my past which you said you didn't. I could write about you and post it too. "

I was very sick to the stomach, said "yes you can do whatever you want".

It is not possible to delete a post that already had comments, this is common knowledge for forum posting. And no, I will not delete it.

I tried my best to be open minded about your past when I first got to know you as I had friends who told me I should not have divorced my ex as he was such a nice guy. I was OK with it for what I knew at the time. As I was going through the IVF myself, I began to have very different perspective. If I ever cross path with your ex, I would tell her how sorry I am that she went through all that with the divorce at the end of it. This is not about judgement. This is about empathy, kindness and compassion.

I remember last time I was in individual therapy after my divorce, not for the divorce, but for the broken dream of my own family where I could belong. I traced back my insecurity to my childhood, how a little girl swore she would never marry a man like her dad and she would never be a wife like her mom. One useful thing out of the therapy was I needed to accept I would never receive recognization from my parents, I would have to live with that.

Should I give up in your ever seeing pain other than yours?

Let me repeat the reasons I told you to leave him, with some more added from your additional posts about his behavior (in 2 posts; rather long). Mr_Aileen, please do respond to these events so that we can see your side of it. The only way you’ll ever have a responsive wife is if you put your honesty out on the table. Please do tell us why we should not assume these are abusive, cold-hearted, manipulative actions. I really want to understand you.

Oh, and Aileen, are you reading that book yet?

The kick for him to have a divorce was another woman in the company who was on separation and had much more lively personality. He realized what he was missing in his life. Meanwhile the woman's husband went to HR to complain it made him impossible to work at the same company. YOu could imagine the riot.Eventually this woman quit.
So your H had an affair while married, to a married woman.

He started seeing a shrink and was on depression drugs for a while. He kept reassuring me each time I struggled with his negativity that this is all temporary, it will get better. Well, it did get somewhat better but certain things remain the same. He really believes everyone out there is trying to "[censored] him up". that would include me.
So he remains negative.

I managed to be ok with all this.
So you settled with a H who was not meeting your needs and who made you feel it was your fault.

I had to go through the whole workup that led to IVF to get pregnant, thus with the twins. The whole treatment was very cruel on a woman. We got along nicely until then as it impacted the life so much. I was having all the side effects with the drugs pumped into my body. I got a total of 70 shots on my belly. It got me so tired all the time that he complained life has become very boring as I could not do things I used to do with him, like hiking and kayaking. You would think he would feel slightly sympathetic since this was all done because of his conditions?
So he blames you for being human and has no sympathy and expects you to forego your needs just to keep him happy.

And after the whole year of routine fights on the subject, I realized this was an option I can't ignore if I want to keep the marraige going. So I accepted the offer. He was worried about losing it as I would wait for the kids to be born before moving. He suggested he go in March, I stay behind to deliver in June and move in october. I was so surprised he would even think this way, told him there would be no wife or kids if he dares doing this.
So again he cares only for himself and is willing to abandon his wife to have her twins on her own just so he can move sooner?

So we agreed: move in October, try 2 years. That Xmas we went to Belgium as usual, me having severe pregnancy reaction and throwing up all the time. We announced our decision which got cheers from the family. 5 min later, he started telling me he was not sure he would like working for the Belgian company, he doesn't like all the selling/packing we have to do as we would have to sell the house, cars and half of the belongings, he was worried we would not have the same nice jobs after two years in US, etc etc. It hit me that I gave in to a man who is highly unstable. But I told him what is done is done, he will have to deal with it. In fact, he would have to do most of it as I was pregnant. He really did not like hearing that.
So you’re married to an unstable person.

I was commenting how narrow the roads were I would be too nervous to drive. Plus he already refused to get a automatic car as manual was more fun for him. He told me I should ride bike to work. I asked "with two infants?" He got furious that I was saying negative things about Belgium and said I didn't want to move to Belgium after all.
So he expects you to stop all your thinking and give up any feelings you have because it’s your job only to make sure he’s happy? He cares about his fun more than your fear?

He came home crying to his mom, who of course wanted to talk to both of us. HIs parents tried to convince me to move to Belgium permanantly for "family value" and to "make your husband happy". I told them 2 years is what they got and all I would do. I explained to them US is much easier on an immigrant and I have accomplished myself there. His mom who has been housewife all her life asked what that meant? She concluded I put money before family.His dad told me I should consider kids' education etc. I told him US has good education systems. I personally would choose a PhD education in China over in Belgium. His dad later commented "how can someone with such high education be so narrow minded?"
So you’re married to a man who sides with his parents over you and sees nothing wrong with letting them gang up on you, does not defend you?

We fought every single week afterwards. I begged him to leave me alone as my health could not stand such stress. I was not eating or sleeping and having a hard time with the pregnancy. He was happy to have cheese and chips for dinner and called me high maintenance for wanting different food.
So he has no concern nor respect for you as a pregnant person or the person he supposedly loves.

Then the ultrasound showed risks of Down Syndrome of one child. Doc was talking to us about selective abortion which most likely will trigger both... It was horrible to wait for the few weeks until we could do an ecogram on babies' heart. When it got cleared I was so happy, he showed no happiness and told me how he could feel happy when I made him so unhappy.
So at the most traumatic point of your life, all he cares about is that YOU make HIM unhappy?

Then he told me one day he decided to forgive me. I told him I have always been a good wife to him, there is no need to be forgiven. He told me my decision on Belgium was like a betrayal upon him, like I slept with another man.
That is manipulative, abusive bull crap.

That was the most vulnerable period in my life. I asked my mom to come for a while which she refused. As the childbirth was getting close, I wanted to bring a Chinese doula from LA for a month. he refused, saying million of women went through it just fine, why bother?
So again he chooses his needs (saving money) over yours?

I was alone with twins for 3 months at home, day and night. He called babies at that stage "useless and annoying". Occasionally Sean threw up onto him, he called him "a f*cking piece of sh*t".
You do realize this is not normal behavior? That it is a sign of severe problems to call your own son that?

Somewhere along the line I just gave up. I no longer got upset or tried to improve things. My efforts have been labelled as "hormonal, difficult, and exaggeration". I take care of most housework, kids and my own job. I do more to avoid conflict as I am just too tired to argue. He said I play a martyr to make him feel like an inadequate husband. I didn't even bother replying.
You react just like every other abuse victim – giving up and turning off your feelings. He continues to press that advantage by manipulating you further to convince you that YOU are to blame for everything.

Most of the days I am too busy to think about things, other days I just want to scream. One morning prior to one of his parents' visit, I told him I bought his mom a shirt in her favorite style. He looked at me with suspicion and said you are just doing this to show how great you are and make me feel bad.
Another symptom of a troubled mind. No man who loves his wife would say that about her doing something nice for HIS mother.

I was pregnant a few months ago. I did not even know I could get pregnant naturally with him and the feeling was very complicated. Our offer just got accepted on the current house which we could not support with one salary. When I told him, he said there is no way he could deal with the extra stress. He told me of course the decision was up to me but he would just be unlucky to be in the consequences. I know myself would not have the time/energy for another baby but wish he would be a bit more sympathetic... He did go through the abortion process with me and cried when I did. I cried my eyes out after the abortion and went on with my life.
More abusive manipulation, to make you feel you had no choice but to lose the baby.

One day I was driving on the backroad fast and the car was tilting slightly, I thought it would be such a relief to just let go. Then the thought of my boys grabbed my hearts with so much pain.
Another symptom of an abuse victim – preferring death just to get away from the pain.

We were able to keep a civilized conversation in front of the counselor but failed to do so at home. Instead my H would say you can't do such as such as the counselor said such and such. I stopped going to the counseling after that. It was his own therapist whom I felt helped him feel better but not improve much.
The session was spent to explain how much I hurt him for choosing even leaving him over a small thing as moving to Belgium. He was nice, gentle, considerate during the therapy, offered to learn to cook a few home meals for me which never materized. He fought with me right afterwards, telling me I should do such and such as his therapist said so. I stopped going after two sessions which he blamed me for lack of efforts in our relationship.
That’s because abusive personalities tell the MC what the MC wants to hear while he has no intention of following through; instead he will turn the session back on the victim so that they feel more hopeless and give up. Like you did. And he will not improve because in his mind there is nothing wrong with him. Abusers actually LIKE going to MC because he manipulates what the IC says and uses it to further get what he wants.

The therapist actually told me that my H won't change, she said I would need an outlet.
Because she recognized his abusive tendencies and knew that he was wearing you down, just as all abuse victims are.

i gave my insurance mental network a call today and talked to a counselor on the phone, who pretty much said things along the line of catperson. She also insisted I get individual therapy right away. She does not think MC will help me much at this point. She even insisted in connecting me to National Domestic Violence line.
So people who know even less about you than WE do recognize he is abusing you. What more proof do you need?

his own family ganged against me to pressure me to move to Belgium for good,
This is very common with abusers.

actually celebrated the birthday with one child first as one of his sisters had plans that evening, while I was napping with another kid for jetlag. Obviously they felt nothing wrong about that, when I pointed it out to H, he just dismissed me saying it's no big deal.
Abusers always dismiss your feelings and convince you that it is YOU with the problem.

H was cursing one of the twins at 3am in the morning, when I took over, he started yanking the child while yelling into my ears "give me the child!!!"
Cursing and yanking a child – a baby – is the first step toward physical abuse.

H became furious, saying he can't move to Belgium already and now I am taking away his time with his family.
Blaming you so that you feel guilty and give him what you want; typical manipulation.

I was given strong pain killer beforehand. H was upset that my appointment conflicted with his noon soccer game and told me to drive myself. When he realized I was not in a state to drive, he came with me in fury, complained how long the test took, said nothing comforting and hurried to catch his game
He would leave first as he did not have the patience to wait for my procedure.
The hormone drugs resulted in weight gain, H told me I was getting less attractive.
That’s because abusers see their wives as their property, not a person.

First time I cooked a full meal afterwards, H said "it is about freaking time".
Really? After what your wife has been through, that’s all you have to say?

I remember myself driving in frenzy after a whole night of fighting without sleep or food, H was calling me again and again.
That is what abusers do when you buck the system – they panic and keep contacting you until you give up and come back.

Boys had to be separated in different rooms and I could no longer attend them at the same time. H started participating with the cursing at 2am. He would hold the child for 2 min, if the child was still crying, he would leave the child on the floor saying it is no use to hold you anyway, then started cursing.
How does a supposedly loving husband and devoted father treat a BABY like this? This is sick behavior. By anyone’s imagination.

I suddenly lost it and started screaming "you drive me crazy. I have been trying so hard to make you happy that I made myself very unhappy!!" Amazingly he did not yell back.
That’s because abusers are secretly scared people inside; that’s the reason they try so hard to control you. They fear that you will see how bad they are and leave them. So when you DO stand up for yourself, it scares the crap out of them and they give in, just long enough for you to go back to being compliant.

I have read this and I’m saddened. I’m saddened by the responses of these people
Manipulative bs. “I am saddened” is his “You have hurt me so you owe me an apology” – control.

it becomes clear that this statement may or may not be true, but it’s not a reflection of who we are, simply of what we went through. Therapy will help us heal."
Total bs – do NOT buy this. This is him manipulating you again.

Oh, and in that book you'll see that the H threatening to keep the children is one of the first things abusers do when the wife tries to fight back. They know the woman will always give in to be with the kids. But remember that it is YOU who has the stable history, not him. More likely that he will be granted NO custody, if anything.

****EDIT****

From H before he took off to see his shrink, I am guessing this is the positive round of message of the today.
"I have written a (very long) response to your blog and have it in a text file. It was a good exercise for me actually to put some thoughts clear on paper and to get out everything I would like to say to you in a perfect world where we had no communication issues. It may be too raw to let you read it, but I wanted you to know that I did write this. As part of that, I went through the comments and responses on the blog to your first post. Oh my gosh! This is worse than I imagined… I feel like I see the story get worse and worse as I read more and more comments. It is sad to see it develop like that. I just wanted to say for the record, when you came home that day that Sean had cut his eye, nobody said “we don’t know what happened”. I told you exactly what had happened: he ran quickly around the climbing toy as he likes to do, tripped over a toy, and before anybody could do anything, he hit his head on the side of the slide. When I changed his diaper about 20min later I noticed it was bleeding underneath his eyelid. But these people on the website read this and believe you when they say “nobody could tell me what happened” and are labeling me as a child abuser or something! Please, stop this, I beg you. It’s not that I’m afraid to hear any truth, but these people aren’t helping, they are stirring you on. They are agreeing with what negative thoughts are in your head (some real and valid, some a bit filtered through your negative glasses and not necessarily reflective what I really intended to say), and helping you spin it. I am not negating anything you feel, I just hope you agree we can work this out in a setting where we can both speak.

Baby I desperately want you to read the thing I wrote but I’m so afraid to have you read it and interpret it negatively as you sometimes do (and I do too). But I’m begging you, stop this public stoning. The people who read this are ones who have their mind made up about anybody who dares enter their blog world before they even ever saw them. At least take what they say with a grain of salt. This is not me being controlling, but it’s me asking you to see reality rather than what they are saying is your reality…"
When I saw Sean’s wound and asked about it, you said “not sure what happened, I only saw it when I was changing his diaper. He did not even cry.”

This was the day after he had a long bruise on the side of his face as “he walked into an open door” per your parents.

I agree Sean does bruise himself lots, but two big wounds in a row was a lot and it is particular harder when it happened with other’s care than his own parents.

Feel free to send me what your wrote or post it.

In fact I stopped going to my local twin mom's site after someone started suggesting the word "abuse". That is the reaction I get when people hear about H screaming at babies. I know lots of people there in real life and feel very embarassed to be connected to that word.

No matter what you all say here, I am still not in the shoes of "abuse victim" but I know my reality. I was even desperate enough to seek help from H's dad after the shaking child event (that was a HUGE mistake).

I am still trying to make this family work.

Aileen, I don't know that you'd find a more supportive group anywhere as far as continuing to support folks in their choice to stay in marriages that they want to stay in. It takes what it takes. They say here that Plan A is the reality-bringer. Eliminating LBs, meeting ENs in a way that you are enthusiastic about, and negotiating to get your needs met without love busters gives a lot of clarity where there had been confusion and blame-shifting.

ears is very correct. Your marriage IS salveagable.

IF.

You determine the boundaries that you need so that you don't end up driving around at night wishing you would end up dead in a ditch.

And IF.

You can explain these safety boundaries to H and he agrees to them and he actually follows through.

As I said, it's possible he merely has controlling tendencies because of his ridiculously imposing family, and that's the only way he knows how to deal with you.

If so, he CAN learn a lot and change and learn healthy habits to deal with you, his parents, your parents, and your children.

But until he is ready to admit what he has done wrong, you will not see one iota of change in him.

So this is all falling on your shoulders. Will you give in to his pressure, as you have been doing all this time and are now miserable because of it? Or will you determine your boundaries, enact consequences if he fails to honor the boundaries (such as him leaving the home, separating, etc.), and stay strong enough to show him that he will have to come around to the middle ground if he wants to keep this family?

Reality-bringer, that is nicely put. I owe myself the closure how I got here and how I will NOT get here again. That is a help I am seeking alone.

Cat, there is not much left in me to give in. LOL.

I used to have this recurring dream where I was surrounded by friends and family, I was afraid as they were telling me to kill myself. My mom was in front of me, saying "yes, that is the best for everyone".

The dream went away after I gave up any expectation for my parents. My dad passed away 3 years ago, after cheating on my mom for 15 years (platonic I think), that was also 15 years of my mom telling me how much she HATES it.

When I was pregnant and really desperate, my new recurrent dream: I had fishes with sharp mouth under my skin. I could see them, feel them, in pain as they move around and scared. So I took a knife and kept cutting openings on myself for them to exit. But they move too fast and I kept cutting...
H was in my dream, he told me "hurry up and suck it up".

I have empathy for H, really, as he is indeed miserable. I told him once that if he could not orient his life around his boys, there will be no hope for him as he will never feel the rich joy of life devoting himself for SOMEONE ELSE.

I had a few occasions where I was determined to leave H, each time he pleaded for more patience and understanding, promising he will get better. So after these years, and what we went through, and now kids, he changed some but he is what he is. I have been functioning by controlling myself with the logic side. In the process I lost myself. I will find myself again.