z, are you talking about the two dates you went on with that guy as your affair?

Some may get on my case over this but in my book, you going out with this guy in the context of the two events, after all this that's gone on, is not the same as a spouse who secretly plans and executes a full-on, long-term affair. In other words, don't beat yourself up or paint a scarlet letter on yourself. Don't let SW do that to you, either.

This person was a long time friend of SW and me. I did end up sleeping with him on one of the dates. I am the one who asked him.

This happened all by chance. It's not something that I planned. I have to admit however if SW hadn't found out, we would have continued to see each other on that level. Right now everything is on hold and we have had no physical contact in 2 weeks. The last time we spoke was over IM a week ago.

I am just making sure that I am not in the same spot SW was in last year.

Anyway. Right now I am playing nice. I setup on appointment with Steve Harley for Monday morning. I have filled out the forms. Like I said I can't promise that anything will come of this, but I am willing to make this call.

So I had my appointment with Steve Harley on Monday and he had alot of interesting things to say.

He asked me if I was willing to do an experiment with him and SW. I said I don't know. He asked me to fill out the questionnaires on the site and meet with him and SW again.

I feel like I am being pressured by SW to do this. Like if I don't do this, I will be the one who put the final nail in the coffin.

I don't feel like SW deserves another chance. He keeps finger pointing at me saying that I am also at fault for the breakdown of the M. Bottom line is that I am not the one who chose to have a long term affair and I don't feel like I can ever forgive him.

I was soooooo very ready to move on with my life. All I had to do was fill out the paperwork, file it and wait a few months. Now SW will probably fight me when I actually do file which is probably in the coming week. It's not fair. Just when I thought things were coming around and it was going to be easier, now this happens.

It took me alot of effort to get here and to get right with myself. I am not willing to lose any of it. I feel like I wasted the last 3 years of my life being miserable with that man. Everyone saw me miserable and depressed. My parents, my friends, my co-workers. Everyone. I used to stay away from social engagements because I was ashamed of how I felt and how things were.

I know exactly how he feels, because this is where I was over a year ago. I feel terrible guilt, but I don't think I can give SW another chance. There have been so many years of hurt and tears with him. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to suffer it again.

I am wrong to feel this way?

You don't owe him anything. You don't owe SH anything. I know how hard it is to tell any sort of authority figure that you're going to think for yourself. But you don't have to go through with it. Plus, it's a lot of money, and if you've already lost your love, it's a moot point. But only you can know that.

Stop being a pleaser, and take care of yourself. Let him learn to live on his own, as you do the same. If you both learn and grow, apart, you may find your way back to each other again later, for a healthier relationship. But I don't think you can have it - with him - at this point.

You know. I've been staying away from SW's post so I wouldn't know the crap going on. Now I'm glad I read it.

I love the fact that I'm being portrayed as the WS and the bad guy. I love it. I had pretty much what comes down to a one night stand right before SW moved out forever and now I'm in a fog. Awesome.

I think my fog is the fact that I don't want to be abused anymore.

I told my parents and friends what I did with my 'OM'. Yes I told them everything as emarrasing as it was. My parents pretty much suspected something huge happened to begin with because of how SW tried to come back. They more or less shrugged it off because they know the BULLS*** I've gone through over the last year. Don't think what I did was right, but they can understand why it happened.

I'd like to remind everyone that I'm not the one who had a longterm affair with my 'ski bunny'.

How long a BS supposed to fight for a lost cause? The 'ski bunny' was an affair. SW has a long line of inappropriate friendships with other women as well. (I think 7?... I lost count....) How many chances should a person get?

Why would anyone who believes in MB principles tell a BS to keep fighting for this after they have given up? Why would I in my right mind fight for this M now? You must be joking.

Yes I had an A. A one night stand. One in 13 years, a week before my WH moved out.... After all the property was divided and before the D papers were filed. I should have listened to my friends and filed the paperwork when SW walked out.

I was the one fighting for a long time with nothing in return. Now I am accused in being in a fog. I think if I were in a fog I wouldn't be here asking questions. How many times does a M like this have to go back and forth before you cut your losses and move on?

Zora - I have posted to you quite a bit. I really AM on your side. SW FINALLY woke up at the thought of really losing you, JUST LIKE THEY ALL DO, ho-hum, no news there.

You have fought a long, hard, lonely fight while SW was romping with the ski bunny who didn't give a SH*T about your marriage. So I think you have earned a divorce if that is what you choose.

But keep in mind that having the OM IS influencing your feelings. And he IS NOT an honorable man, or he wouldn't be with a married woman.

All I'm saying is to take your time doing this.

SW HAS quit his job with the OW, so he is not just giving you talk. He will have to continue making changes. But you have every right to divorce him if you choose.

I'm proud that you are talking to Steve. Sorry that you feel pressured. But also realize that YOU hold all the cards now, and are in the position that thousands of posters here would like to be.

I really hope that things turn out good for you. You deserve it.

My friends have asked my if the OM was influencing my decisions at this point. So i took a step back. I haven't seem him since 9/25. I have talked to him over IM/txt messages probably about 3 times since then. Other than that there has been no contact.

He feels bad and I feel bad about what happened. We both regret it and realize that we probably won['t end up friends after all this. It sucks all around.

I have known the OM for around 10 years. I know the history he has. He is a womanizer. I know many details about his past. Probably too many. I am not fooling myself there.

I think I realized back in August that SW was having 2nd thoughts when he said he still loved me, but it didn't make a difference. I was ready to continue on my path before OM happened.

Zora - I made the same mistake, so don't feel like I am accusing you of doing something so awful. After my WH had been in the affair about 3 years, I went to a benefit at the Yacht Club with my girlfriend and ran into an old (male) friend that we'd known about 15 years.

I was very vulnerable, and he treated me well. I know that was no excuse. Anyway, we ended up in bed together.

What happened was I felt bad the next day, lost some self-esteem and didn't want to see him again. So I lost a long time friend over my stupidity.

Just a small update.

Recently I got together the divorce papers and got them all filled out. Yesterday I reviewed them and have some questions. Since I'm not fighting for any financial/property items and we have no kids, it is pretty cut and dry.

The other thing I did was go through all of the wedding stuff in my house. I had ripped all the wedding pictures off the walls about 6 months ago and put them in the tv cabinet that I don't use. I haven't looked at them since.

Yesterday I opened that cabinet and took them all out. I looked at them one by one. I also went through the wedding album and looked at those pictures. I cried a bit I suppose. We had a wonderful wedding and SW has a great family, I thought as I went through them.

I also went in the closets and got out the wedding dress and accesories and other items associated with the wedding. I put all the pictures and wedding stuff in a big plastic bin and stuck them in the garage. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with all this stuff but I just couldn't throw it away. I'm giving these things to my parents to store in their attic for now.

I have thought over the last month about everything that has happened over the last 2 years and even over the last 13. I'm sad that it came to this, but I have to be true to myself. SW and I had a miserable relatioship for so long and I know by following MB principles that that could change. But first and foremost I am in a relationship with myself and I love myself more than I can love anyone else. Right now I don't want to be fighting for something I don't believe can make me happy.

So this is where I am. I have all the papers filled out and after a few final questions I am going to file. I know SW will contest and fight but it doesn't matter. I settled on a course back in July and now I am ready to follow through with it.

So I made a mistake and actually called SW when he called me today. I have been trying not to talk to him and to generally not anser phone calls or e-mails unless I absolutely have to.

He is trying to make me feel guiltyu for not letting him in, saying that I am being cruel. That I am abadoning him at the worst moment of his life. He's right, I am being cruel, otherwise he will not leave me alone. I feel like I am being harrassed. So the only way to get him to listen is to be nasty.

So I spoke to him this evening and mentioned something about the dogs. I mentioned that I wanted to give them up. It's something that I had been thinking about for a while because I wanted to ask for my old job back. My old job involved a lot of traveling so I would not be able to take good care of them. He laid a guilt trip on me saying how can you give up your family like that. So the fight escalated from there. I should have just hung up. I didn't. Many nasty things were said that I don't feel good about.

I ended up having an anxiety attack. This is a pretty typical outcome when I speak to him on the phone. So I poured myself a drink and called my dad. I really can't take many more of these. WTF does this many expect from me after all of this?

Have you read his current post's here on MB?

I have not read them in a while, pretty much because I have pretty serious anxiety and the more stuff I read from him the worse I get.

He will not stop e-mailing me about how much he loves me and wahts to be with me, yadda yadda. And he calls me until I either respond or call back. I feel like I'm being harrassed.

Yesterday I told him I wanted to give him full custody of the dogs. He was not happy with that and said how can you give up your family like that.

They are dogs, not kids. I love them, but I am willing to give them up for my own well being. I would love to keep them, but I feel like it's just another way for him to control me after we are divorced. Besides I am expecting to get my old job where I am travelling alot and I do expect to go back to school to finish my PhD. So it would be very hard for me to have them.

I am happy to pay for any care that they need until their death. It wasn't easy for me to make this decision.

Oh and another thing. The last time I went on a big trip back in July, he blew up at me so that I had a huge panic attack. Made me feel guilty about going on my trip to the grand circle.

I am leaving for the Middle East and India in 2 days and he does the same thing. This is the biggest trip of my life. I am having terrible anxiety about this compounded with the guilt trips he is giving me for not answering his e-mails and phone calls etc.

Tell me how he has changed?

That's pretty interesting, because on HIS thread, he is all resigned and sad and moving on. All these people are spurring him on to fight for you, and he just answers all of them with 'It's my fault, I got what I deserved, I'm letting her go.'

zora, take care of yourself. You don't need his validation for anything. You're obviously a very capable person, if you can travel around the world like that. I wish I was that brave. I wish I was brave enough to even tell my H what I'm unhappy about. So you being able to weather all the crap he put you through, being able to stand up for yourself, being able to walk away from him and stand firm even in the onslaught of calls and emails...well, you're pretty impressive to me.

Are you medicating for the anxiety attacks? I think Paxil is good for that. I had a huge panic attack last spring (my first), and the doctor prescribed Paxil. Haven't had one since.

Take care of yourself.

I honestly don't think he has changed. I know I should stay out of it, but I have seen someone (in reading your posts) who gave up long ago on this relationship, and I see another person (the ex) trying his best to manipulate you into taking him back (and using the MB'ers to do it)

I have read his accusations in regards to his "former friend" Zora, flat out answer this. When you dated the friend, were you done with your marriage? Rather then having everyone debate this situation, I felt it best to ask you up front.

Keep in mind, that I am of the belief that a marriage is over when the betrayed spouse has had their fill, and in no circumstance will take back the WS. As it stands, I myself am stuck in divorce purgatory, waiting for those papers to cross my hands, but I have moved on and am happier for it! Many here deem this to be adulterous in nature, but they could not be more wrong. My marriage is over, forever. There is no going back to that abuse, and as advised by everyone who first read my story here, I dumped the loser and found a winner.

So, Zora, is there any circumstance in which you would go back to WS? Was the marriage over, completely when you had your relations?

I hate reading your ex manipulate the people here into thinking he is doing everything he can for your marriage. There are two sides to every story. Time to find the third, which is the truth.

Ms Manners, thank you. I thought I was going crazy over on that thread. Everyone's beating me up for trying to defend zora. They all keep saying 'her affair' and 'the OM' and 'in the middle of her marriage!' like she got into some tawdry secret love affair that wrecked their chances together, when she says it was, what, two dinners and a fling? And then she stopped it? And this was after 6 months of working on a divorce?

Whatever happened to the people here saying that a BS has every right to walk away from an affair-laden marriage?

The second they get to say that SHE was the WS, they (mostly men) jump all over it.

grrr

I too believe SW could be manipulating MB to his end, but I see his actions with Zora as a desperate effort to get her to try again, not understanding that this is not how it works with someone's heart. It is a factor of his emotional immaturity, not that he doesn't want to see Zora happy again... And he is growing up. But this maturation process takes time. He doesn't recognize that this is his work to do, alone. He's still clinging to hope that Zora will find feelings for him again.

That said, I still think OM was a low-life scum to go after his friend's "exwife". Two years later, after the divorce, not so scummy, but six months after she's decided - that's still in the heartbreak stage, where he steps in - it's all too predatory for me to reconcile. Just ask Richie Sambora's ex wife and girlfriend - two former best friends... Just a little too soon, and a little too convenient.

The relations that I had with our former friend was initially a drunken one night stand thing. This was the last week or so of September of this year. Later I found that he had feelings for me for a long time. I had no idea. We went on a date to talk about things. It probably would have continued if SW had not found out. I even revealed the sordid details to my parents which was very difficult. They are not happy with me.

At the time this happened I was ready for SW to be out. He was moving out within a few days. The M had been over for months, years even at that point.

There is no way I could go back to SW that is why I don't answer his phone calls and respond to e-mails. I don't want to give an impression that there is a chance.

I can take a lot of crap, and I will hang on to bad things for a long time to see if I can fix them. I am an engineer by trade, so this is my nature. But I am also the type of person who when I have come to the conculsion there is nothing more I can do to repair something, I am truly done and need to leave it behind.