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Joined: Sep 2008
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Hi MC,

WH is apparently going to contact you today.

I am not blameless, but at no stage did I raise my voice or make him think, feel or do anything.

He thinks I am trying to control his work with OW. All I said was that if we were to work on our relationship I would need to protect my heart and my feelings and if he worked with OW 3-5 nights a week I would have a problem with it. That’s it. No threats, no ultimatums, nothing.

He threatened to kill me 3 times last night over the phone and asked me to close my eyes and walk out onto the freeway.

He called my parents and my sisters to tell them I am horrible and malicious and now he is contacting my grandparents, uncles and aunties in Adelaide to spread the news.

Everything is always my fault.

I will be seeking the advice of a lawyer today as he has demanded that we separate assets now and put a visitation plan in order.

I want to change the locks but I’m pretty sure he would smash a window.

I will be seeking assistance from a domestic support system for verbal and physical abuse and I will not be putting the kids in his sole care for visitation as previously decided.

I really fear that he could either harm or kill me or the kids to teach me a lesson.

I think he needs a psychiatric assessment and he needs to do anger management as a starting platform before I could even consider re-entering a relationship with him.

I may need to cancel the Forum this weekend so that I can take my kids away for safety. I don’t want to. I think it’s also time for me and the kids to move in with my parents immediately to be out of danger.

He has threatened me at least once a fortnight for the past 3 months and has become physically violent on 3 occasions, slapping me, trying to strangle me and throwing me around and told me on Saturday that if I wasn’t holding our son he would punch me in the face. He damages our property and kicks my things around and damaged my car, kicking the door, trying to smash the window while I was inside it and breaking the mirror.

He blows up, verbally/physically abuses me and then within 24-30 hours he starts calling or texting me like nothing has happened. I ignore his horrible behaviour and accept the good, but it does not work. I really don’t know what to do anymore.

I can’t fix him. I have tried to be a supportive, loving wife and I can’t take it any longer.

I deserve better than this. I want my husband back, but not like this.

My minister, a mutual friend, my immediate family and an internet support group know the details also. I hope it doesn’t come to anything, but he should be the number one suspect if something were to happen to me.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Aug 2005
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Very well expressed. It is time to be proactive rather than reactive because it is the reaction that he feeds on.

My h was trying some very similar performances but gave up on physical abuse as soon as my hand went to the phone to call the police and he never tried to do it again after that.In my experience the only way to stop a bully is to introduce an even bigger bully

If he runs true to his previous patterns he will revert to the position of the injured victim or turn on the Mr Nice Guy charm to try and gain sympathy for being lumbered with the crazy jealous wife.Whatever happens do not allow him to take control in this way

Your diary of posts reads very convincingly it will be invaluable as a record of recent events in the event of court intervention. I think, however, he will back off considerably from that eventuality.

In your first posts you mention NPD as a possible explanation for his behaviour. What led you to this conclusion?

I am very concerned for you. Good Luck! Keep posting!

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He came around last night, pushed me around a bit, kissed the kids, tried to push me again and I looked him in the eye and said enough. He left.

I called my parents and they came around. He called and wanted to come back to pick up some things. I said that I didn't trust him and he would have to bring the police with him, and if he didn't he would not come in and I would call them.

He told me he wanted to be paid out for the house, I said I'd speak to a lawyer tomorrow. He said he was moving everything out, I said not tonight, we'll arrange it for next week with the police present.

He told me he was coming to collect our DD. I said no, called the police and he called them too. When he was on the doorstep he was calm and as cool as a cucumber. He told me I still had a chance to get everything I wanted, I just needed to talk to him. I said that would be fine, when the police arrived.

He waited for a bit then left. I made a report to the police but did not seek an intervention order, I truly believe it would not make a difference and may make things worse.

The police have the power to serve an intervention order on him if he assults or threatens me again or if he damages our property. We told this to his brother and his brother said that WH is well aware and will not be back.

I took the kids and stayed and mum and dad's last night. It felt weird but also good. I was happy that I had been strong and proactive.

No contact from him yet, it's been 26 hours. I start my forum at 9am tomorrow so I'll see if he is panicked and tries to contact me before then.

He tried to "expose" me to my extended family and our friends who have moved to Perth. He sent them messages saying that we were unfortunately separated. I told them I wanted to work on the marriage and he didn't but I still had hope.

I'm keeping cool, talking to victim groups, family courts etc and learning that knowledge is power!

Last edited by 2much2lose; 10/23/08 05:38 AM. Reason: My friend thinks he is a narcsist and from the reading the info available, he definately has some of the traits. His brothers are the same too so I think it was effectively passed down from his narcisstic mother

BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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I also read a one chapter of a great book yesterday: People Who Make Your Life He## - Managing the people who try to control you by Lois Grant. You only need to read the chapter that describes your 'abuser'.

I recognised my H/WH immediately. He is the Queen of Hearts.

"THE QUEEN OF HEARTS. She abuses publicly, with over reactive, verbal abuse telling us how ‘wrong’ we are. Her aim is to intimidate the opposition into instant submission."

"The Queen of Hearts can change from calm to gale force winds in one breath if she wants to be critical or doesn’t get her way. Her aim is to intimidate the opposition into instant submission, and we are all the opposition! Never say to her, ‘Let’s be rational’. She doesn’t intend to be – she is irrational to put us off balance. She hopes everyone is listening when she explodes – it’s a cost effective way of bringing you into submission. You are going to learn not to react to offer her a chance to trust – and improve her relationship with – another human being."

"You can learn to protect yourself from the Queen’s attacks. After the first encounter, expect more of the same. Lowering your eyes and pretending it isn’t happening will only encourage her. If you’re not afraid, can’t be intimidated and don’t react, she will stop. There is no point in her carrying on the attack. The focus is squarely on her and she feels foolish. Besides, rage takes a lot of energy. Learn to see her as a ferocious marshmallow. Sit calmly, look her directly in the eye while she rages and performs. The purpose is not to humiliate her, but to be totally unimpressed."

"The basic rule in dealing with any Queen of Hearts is, ‘If you want my respect and cooperation, you’ll have to earn it’. State this calmly, when she has run out of steam, then walk out quietly, withdrawing with dignity. Do not run – that encourages her. You may only withdraw to the next room, your bathtub, or you may go for a walk – whatever will nurture you at that moment."

"Don’t be surprised when you get back together if nothing is mentioned. That’s fine. The Queen will give you more opportunities to smile and remind her of the rule: If you want my respect and cooperation, you’ll have to earn it."

"Be compassionate enough to stop the Queen of Hearts. Know that inside, she is suffering a great deal."

"Compassion begins at home. In asking for mutual respect, and expecting to get it, you are defining the outcome you want, and laying the foundation for reciprocal respect. If trust develops and the Queen feels more secure, there is less need to chop off heads. Remember, what drives a Queen of Hearts is the fury of feeling inadequate and a need to control you through intimidation."

"TAKE YOUR NECK OFF THE CHOPPING BLOCK

 When she meets with opposition, the Queen of Hearts launches an attack to cover her doubt and vulnerability.
 The best way to deal with the Queen of Hearts is to show that you are not afraid of her tirade of abuse.
 Do not be submissive. Listen to her rant, but remain neutral and look her in the eye. Walk away if her abuse goes over the top.
 Call her bluff and agree with her, but exaggerate her criticism using gentle humour.
 Tell her she has to earn your respect or you won’t cooperate, then withdraw with dignity. Expect her never to mention the incident when she returns but expect better behaviour, too. If she blows up, stick by your rules. Remember, she may need lots of chances.
 Never placate, never make excuses and never argue with a Queen of Hearts.
 Never justify her behaviour.
 Be compassionate. She needs it.
 Don’t confuse compassion with patronising behaviour. Compassion is the ability to believe we can help each other in a very critical society. Bullies need compassion and limits."


All of this and I just miss him so much. I would love to have him back to work on our marriage but he really needs help and needs to know to seek it before we'd even be in a place to try. I hope that this time apart will help him miss us and want to win us back. His twitter on his website was updated last night to read "Coming to terms with the decision to be on my own again"


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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I would like you to spend a little bit of time this weekend thinking about the difference between missing him, or missing the security of having a husband.

here again, I speak from experience. for the longest amount of time I mourned the loss of security in my life. I no longer had a "guaranteed date" for parties. when I would receive an invitaion to an event, I would instantly try to think of an excuse to get out of it - so I wouldn't have to show up alone.
I missed being able to say "My husband and I". I missed having another adult in the house. I missed having someone to stay home with the kids while I went to the store.

But I finally realized that all fo this was differnt from missing him.

I can look back now and wonder why I tolerated a lot of the stuff I tolerated for so long. why I allowed my Ex to attack my self worth, and make me feel very small and unimportant. I can see it all now. But I couldn't see it when I was up close to it. And I have to tell you that the things my Ex did were no where close to the things your WH is doing.

Your WH may very well miss you, and have the desire to return to you. You represent a LOT of security in his life. Emotional, financial, physical. Of course he will miss that. But that does not mean he will be at all ready to get help - and he needs LOTS of it. Do not falter. Be strong in your resolve. Do not listen to his crying about "I am sorry, I just want to be with my wife and children again, I miss you all so much" Be sympathetic to it all, but let him know that he is not coming back until your counselor, who specializes in abused women, says it is ok.

And lean on God. If you let him take care of you, amazing things will happen for you.


Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
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I'm quickly logging on before going to the forum and really appreciate your message WOF. I will keep it front of mind and try and find the right answers for me. I am still confused and in love with my H who is very different from WH, but still has many problems.

You make some really good points and I do take them very seriously.

I'll let you know how I go. Thank you for thinking of me. I'm still strong and raising a family, working full time and keeping house on my own and I'm ok.

I spoke to my boss yesterday morning who is concerned about my weight loss etc and she will continue to support me, including financially if need be. She suggested I could rent the house out and move in with my parents for an extra income source which is a great idea, if I need to.

Hugs and kisses!
Kerri

Last edited by 2much2lose; 10/23/08 04:33 PM. Reason: I find it hard to sleep and keep praying and generally wake up and have no idea when I fell asleep. God is truly great and my one true rock

BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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I have just had the most amazing experience of my life and I wanted to share it with you and let you know that instead of pretending a Plan A with my WH, I have been catapulted into a whole life of Plan A so that everyone that I interact with will have the best of me.

I can honestly say that the Landmark Forum has saved my life. I feel completely free and open to possibilities and I can't imagine not being happy again.

My life is a walk in the park compared to the tradgedies of some of the people I met (there were 142 people in our group) and I am now able to have an amazing relationship with my husband, if we stay married or not.

It goes against Plan B, but this is worth it because I have the benefits of feeling great and free in Plan B but with the added bonus of continuing a relationship with my H as a truly loving and amazing woman - better than the one he fell in love with. Who wouldn't choose that?

Anyway, I wrote him a letter which was my assignment on Friday night. We hadn't spoken since Tuesday night. I truly didn't have these insights until I had started the forum. I read it to the group on Saturday morning and about 85% of the men and women cried. I had more love and compassion in that room at that moment than I have felt in a lifetime. I was being completely open and honest and it was the greatest feeling ever to be 100% fully self expressed.

I emailed it to him on Saturday night and also spoke with him. He was still mad but I had the freedom to tell him exactly how I felt with no expectations and no fear. I was crying and I could hear him crying too. He didn't say anything except for goodnight.

He dropped some gifts off for the kids when I was in the course so the forum leader walked in passed them to me. I was blown away - so way everyone else.

Last night I got a text message which was a real breakthrough for us.

"I read your forum letter. Thank you. Fair to say that i didn't know all of those things. I hope you're ok and that you received the gifts for the kids today. I'm into the 2nd gig for the day now and I just wanted you to know that I love you. Never stopped. I hope the forum stays with you, really do."


I don't feel afraid to tell him how I feel now and I believe we have created a platform where anything can happen. I now have the skills to not nag and complain and to be loving, open and honest. Who wouldn't want that?

I'll put in my letter to him too.

I cannot recommend the forum enough to you all. You can all have an amazing life - better than what you can imagine and you all deserve the very best, and that's why I am sharing with you!

Go to [color:#33CC00]www.landmarkeducation.com[/color] and see if there is a free introduction session in your state/country. It is a worldwide group and they are making a positive difference everywhere. Be skeptical and read the research info from Harvard etc. If you liked the concept of the film "Pay It Forward" then you might be interested to know where the concept came from!

I don't work for them, I don't get a commission for referrals, it's not a cult. I just want you to feel the inner peace that I have and feel the joy of having endless possibilities.

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Dear H,

When we got married I created the possibility that we would be together, happily, forever. You created that possibility too and together we ran head first into our new life with freedom and abandonment.

I thought I had met "the one" who was the answer to my prayers and had rescued me from my unhappiness of being alone, being with wrong guys and making me complete.

You wrote me songs that outlined our massive love and then put them on your albums and website and shared our love with everyone.

I was the happiest I could ever remember. At our wedding I gave a speech and thanked my parents for having an amazing marriage and gloated that I had been given a perfect example for marriage - one that I could teach you because your parents got it wrong.

I wanted to fulfill the rest of our dream as fast as possible and asked if we could have a baby. You resisted, but I made you wrong, justified my reasons, dominated you and 4 months later, our daughter was on the way.

I was so happy – so much so that I didn’t notice your distance until you had found the open arms of someone else. Someone who did not discount your opinions and who wanted you to love and protect them and who was vulnerable and open to your love.

I was so mad at you for cheating on me and told you to call it off, grow up and take care of your responsibilities to me and our new family. I questioned why you would do this if you truly loved my like you said you did.

I hurt but I was patient and waited for you at home with the new baby while you finished it off with her.

We worked on our marriage, but only on the surface. I became overtly controlling of you and our marriage in an effort to prevent another affair and from being hurt again.

What I now realize is that I had created the problem by never loving you fully and being vulnerable. I was the same in my previous two relationships and I distanced myself and they each had an affair too.

On reflection, the skills I learnt from my mother were to avoid conflict, putting husband, career and family first and myself last, undervaluing myself and being a “Stepford wife” – false and happy.

We always looked good.

Dad was an alcoholic, although we’d never call him that. If he was mad we tiptoed around him and glossed over anything too difficult. He’d yell first but always apologise later. If he was at the pub mum would get us to ring the bar and ask for him and ask him to come home. They’d fight. I thought dad would leave or die.

At one stage I thought mum found someone else. I was strong for my sisters, but the fear of abandonment was very real to me. Mum loved dad so much and did everything he wanted at the cost of her own happiness and yet he still treated her badly and did what mattered to him.

I realize I brought this into each relationship. I never fully trusted that I could give myself 100% and expect to receive 100%. I have held back so much so that I could not be hurt.

What I created in our relationship was a platform where I was in the game, but didn’t engage – I was on the bench. Victories and failures were mine, but I never involved myself enough to be completely open with you and I feel we never really communicated our feelings – they could hurt. I preferred my version of you, of us.

Now we have a gorgeous 3½ year old daughter and a handsome 1½ year old son, live in a beautiful home, drive a beautiful car and look good to everyone. But you’ve been gone for 6 weeks, although our marriage has been in trouble for at least 6 months, and if I was honest, from the start. We’re separated now and not talking.

I have tried to win you back from your new best friend. You both said it’s not physical so it’s okay, but it doesn’t need to be sexual to be an affair to me. I’ve run so many rackets to punish you for my failure in this and hurt you so much with my words and actions.

I want to work on our marriage and learn how to meet your emotional needs so that you don’t ever need to look anywhere else to be complete. I was not there when you needed me the most and now we are both suffering for my mistake.

What I came to the Landmark Forum to accomplish is to get you back and engaged in our life.

What I am actually accomplishing is understanding that I cannot control you. I only control me. I didn’t know that I invited the third person into our relationship because I was closed off from giving myself to you fully.

The possibility I have invented for myself is the possibility of being able to let go. I need to open up fully to be okay to be hurt so that I can truly love and be loved. The possibility to fully express myself and have the freedom to choose my life and give you your freedom too.

I would love for us to have another chance to be together but I will learn a new way of acceptance if you do not choose this journey with me. I know deep down I’ll be okay – but I want that at the forefront of me so that I can have a fulfilling life with or without you.

I would love you to be there on Tuesday night with me so that I can share my experience with you in person. You deserve to see the best of me because you helped create it by sharing your Landmark Forum experience with me. I will forever be thankful to you. I feel lighter and happier and ready to live without rackets and without fear and without a past that controls me.

ARILY
xxx


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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Listen to me, please.
YOU DID NOT NOT INVITE A 3RD PERSON INTO YOUR M. His A is not your fault. Not this one, and not his other one either.

You can not create a happy life for yourself by trying to take the full blame for everything, and not encouraging him to take responsiblity for himself. It is not your fault that he went outside of the M for female companionship - and he has done that twice now. It is NOT your fault that he has hit you - you did not force him to do that with your own behavior. It is not your fault that he says things like "I could not hate you more than I do right now".

Ugh.

I am glad this forum was helpful to you, but I fear that it is just a matter of time until you have another huge fall. I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that you have decided to accept his friend into your M. That he needs this friend and it would be selfish of you to get in the way. Sister, I have to tell you that if you do that, I am out of here!

You are wanting to create a happy life for yourself, that is totally understandable, and admirable. You hope that by taking charge of your own life you can create what you want. In a way, your behavior is more controlling, and more harmful, then your WH. At least your WH is openly sick. The things he says, and does, are openly sick. Not at all rational. He is trying to bully you into submission. Into submitting to whatever he wants. Heck, the guy has not had a full time job in years, yet he convinced you to borrow against your house so he could have a $75,000 car. and now, he even wants more money out of the house.

But what you are trying to do, is control him by taking full credit for all the bad stuff. And that will not help him, or you. His behavior will only get worse then - because you have excused it. He will continue to treat you like crap, and you will just say "its my fault, I know better. I shouldn't look at him a certain way, because that just makes him crazy" Your children will end up with a Mom who is so beat down, so abused, so miserable that they will likely end up in bad relationships themseleves.

As I said beofre, you are teaching this man how to treat you. You are teaching him that it is ok to hit you, break your things, kick your stuff, use foul laungauge towards you, tell your family you are a horrible person, make threats to kill you, etc. I could go on. But how do you deal with his behavior? You write him a long letter about how it was all your fault and you take full responsility for all of it. You are hoping that if you just "treat him better" he will "act better". But he is an abuser, and he needs serious help - not just some feel good weekend forum.

Let me ask you this: Have you shared your forum letter with your parents?


Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
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When my husband and I were separated, I also went to a similiar kind of seminar but it was called "The Road". I felt like a million dollars at the end of that weekend. I was ready to handle anything, including letting my husband go. I was all bubbly, positive and happy too. I was UP THERE on cloud nine... in la la land.

It didn't last. Real life set in. It was a hard fall and left me more discouraged than before. I just don't want to see this happen to you.

A wayward isn't going to "hear" what you're trying to say in your letter. I understand that you're trying to break it down for him, where things with wrong, etc., but honestly, you ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for his deciding to have an affair. MOST people do not go have an affair when things go wrong in a marrige. MOST people will either divorce OR try and work it out.

There is no magic bullet (or letter) to get him to see the light.

Your letter will be a waste of time to a wayward. Send it if you like, but I can almost guarantee you it will have little if NO effect on him.

Your time would be better spent concentrating on the PROVEN Plans recommended by Dr. Harley.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Hi WOF, I know it sounds like my story when you say it back to me but sometimes I live in a little bubble and forget all of that stuff and somehow that makes me feel better and rational.

Sigh. It's going to be a long road. I haven't shown my parents the letter and don't know why I would really as I think it would hurt them.

I guess now I feel free to choose my marriage or choose not to. Before I felt overwhelmed and now I know that I can really have an amazing marriage with a man who truly loves and respects me - hopefully my H, but if not, there will be someone else.

The kids cry for daddy often and that really makes it hard on me and I feel sometimes that taking him back is the better option. It's easier to imagine that taking the blame will solve things.

I will give my H space to improve before I take him back. He is not coming to the wedding so I will be away with the kids from this Thursday morning to Tuesday night next week and I am looking forward to the breathing space.

I hope that the time apart will give him space to reflect and decide if he can make the changes. I still hope I can be in a relationship with the father of my children, but I don't feel closed off anymore to the possibility of something better. I know I can't demand that he loses the OW just yet as he can't see what it's done to me/us. When he hits that point I will let him know what needs to happen to move forward.

Thanks for writing!


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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Posts: 567
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Hi PM, I haven't heard of "The Road" but I know exactly what you mean about the fall. I hope the good feelings stay because it's so much easier to cope!

I also understand that my WH doesn't get it. He did the Forum last month and his changes lasted for 2 weeks. I guess it gives us a platform to be more open and honest with each other which will help, but he needs to do the work for his integrity.

I agree that Dr Harley is the way to go - I've seen and heard other people's results and that really encourages me. I guess I just get disheartend when my WH acts out and is nasty. When I am nice he doesn't do that and it seems to be the right choice.

I fear Plan B as I fear the lack of control - (giggle) - I'm not in control now! (thanks WOF - I live to manipulate and control)

I'll take the break this weekend and still look at Oct 30 for Plan B. It scares me so much.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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Sorry WOF - I forgot to respond to you about inviting a 3rd person into the marriage. I know you're right, and if I had a man who was dedicated to me and to the children that he would not have had his affairs. I guess all I did was give him the justification he was looking for, and that's really stupid.

He is a sick man, I know you're right. I think I've been in the situation for so long that it just feels ok to me now. That sucks.

I don't ever want to accept the OW into our M, or any OW, and I don't want to lose you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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Quote
I haven't shown my parents the letter and don't know why I would really as I think it would hurt them.

Ok, this is why I asked this question. Here again, I can relate, because I have done this too. You did not share the letter with your parents because you knew that they would be upset. After all they have been through, with you, this past week, they would be upset to find out that you are taking the full blame on yourself. And they have a right to be upset. They want to protect you! I am sure that your parents have not been perfect people all your life. And I am sure that you have not always been the perfect wife. BUT - they did the best they could at the time, and now they want to help you. If they knew that you were taking responsibility for your WH's abuse, they would be upset.

When you are tempted to hide this sort of thing from them, it is a good indicator that something is not right. That you are not protecting yourself. Just like you didn’t tell them when WH hit you, kicked your bag, threatened you. You did not want them to worry about you. But your WH's behavior was horrible, and they needed to worry about you.

You are an adult now – a mom, a wife. And your parents should not be telling you what to do with your life. HOWEVER, when they try to warn you that you are in a bad situation, you need to pay attention to them. They want you to be happy, healthy, and safe. Imagine how you will feel when your daughter turns 18, and has a serious boyfriend. If she comes home crying and telling you that her boyfriend has done/said some of the things your WH has done/said, how would you react? Would you tell your lovely daughter that it is probably her fault? That she brought it all on herself? I hope not!!! Your parents want to protect you know, just like you will protect your little girl.

There is a really good book you should read called "Women Who Love to Much". I don't recall who the author is. but it basically talks about how we, as women, will put up with way too much crap from a man, always thinking that "someday" it will get better. We are trying to fix some of our broken childhood, by finally making a broken M work.

Quote
The kids cry for daddy often and that really makes it hard on me and I feel sometimes that taking him back is the better option.

did he really spend a lot of time with them before he left? doing nice, family type stuff? I wonder if they miss an "in tact family" more than they miss him. They probably sense that Mommy is sad, and relate it to Daddys absence. Maybe??

I can not believe, for one minute, that taking him back(as he is) and allowing him to shout foul things at mommy would be "better" for them. And spending years making excuses for how Daddy "tripped" over Mommys stuff would not be a better option.

Quote
He is not coming to the wedding so I will be away with the kids

Please call the airline to make sure his reservation has been cancelled! You do not need any surprises at the airport.

Quote
decide if he can make the changes
You are 100% correct here! He needs to figure out if he can make the changes!!!!

You sound better today. Your other posts had me worried about you.

Hugs!








Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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ahem!
Where are you my friend!!!


Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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Just wanted to let you know that I will be out of town all next week, so if you should post while I am gone, I will not be able to respond for awhile

Hope you are ok


Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,141
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^^^^^

bumping up for 2much2lose,

Hope you are okay.

Love in Christ,
Miss M


me: FBS
H: FWS
Fully recovered
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Well, I'm back from my wonderful holiday with the kids, my sister & best buddy, my other sister, hubby & 2 bubs, my parents and all the extended family. Now I'm back with some pretty strange and interesting stories for you!

WH visited on Wednesday night when I was busy packing. He wanted to kiss the kids before we went on our holiday and I said that was great.

He actually turned up on Tuesday night to the last night of the Forum (can’t remember if I’d told you yet) after he said he wasn’t coming. I stood up the front when they asked for the group who were waiting for miracles. It seemed fitting to me.

Anyway, one of the girls told me it was great that my husband turned up. I said alas, no, he wouldn’t come. She said, isn’t that him over there? It was. I had my miracle. No is not no!

Wednesday was surreal. A lady from the Family Relationship Centre called me to say that my WH had contacted them to arrange an official visitation schedule for the kids. I wasn't mad. I was happy that he'd actually been proactive in organising something for the kids. It involves individual sessions with WH and I before a joint mediation session. All free, all out of court.

He asked me on Wednesday night if the miracle I wanted was to get my husband back. I said yes, but not to go back to what it was. I wanted a better marriage with the two of us. We chatted openly and honestly for the first time. He told me that he had great female friends but they are not me and he wants what we have. He doesn't want to lose me or his family and wants to work at making a great marriage. He is sorry for hurting me with OW and understands that we have hard work to rebuild trust etc.

I told him it was not as easy as him moving back home and that I wanted to take it slowly. I am not happy with OW being in his band and want to set my boundaries for future friendships etc.

He agreed and we agreed to take it slow. We had SF and just on midnight, he went back to the backpackers. I went to sleep feeling happy and heard and on the path of something new and great.

The holiday was awesome. I sent him pics of the kids at our favourite places and a great pic of the bride, our daughter and me from the wedding. We talked a couple of times, nothing forced or weird.

On Saturday he rang and was really upbeat about a job interview he’d had at a city music store and excited about getting it. Excited about us too and told me a few ideas of dates we could go on whilst taking it slow as I’d suggested.

On Sunday he spoke to me and I asked him where he was. He told me he was at home waiting for me. I replied that we were still 2 days away. He said he has checked out of the backpackers and has moved home for good.

Yes - I know what you are thinking WOF!

He wrote a message saying “I’m finding it extremely hard to be here. It took me 1 hour and 40 minutes just to finally come in and I feel like I don’t belong and need to go. I’ve never felt like this ever. Just empty. I’m going to try but I honestly don’t know how things will turn out. I only hope for the very very best. I’ll be ok. I’m just feeling very closed in that’s all. I love you.”

We arrived late last night and the lights were on at home. The kids were so excited to see him! We all played for a bit and I put them to bed.

He was in a strange mood. Really quiet and withdrawn. We talked as I unpacked and he mostly kept to himself and didn’t offer much. I didn’t do any R talk, just kept it light. Rubbed his head a bit (his favourite) and then said I was going to bed. He started to say something and then said it didn’t matter. I assume it was that he wasn’t sure about sleeping in the same bed, but I didn’t press him.

I went to bed and he came too about 20 minutes later. He was cold and I am pretty sure he was crying. I gave him a hug and told him that I understood it was really difficult and if I could help at all by listening, I was there. I didn’t expect any big declaration of love and it really is going to take time, but day by day I hoped to make a difference for him and we would create something wonderful. He told me he did want to be there and it didn’t feel weird, but he sounded weird about saying it. I went back to my side of the bed and slept. It was peaceful to have him home, but sad too – who is he now?

This morning I got the kids up and DD’s first words were where’s daddy? She raced down to the bedroom and was SO excited to see him. He got her dressed as I dressed DS. He got up, put them in the car and helped me with my things and told me he was looking for more jobs today.

No kisses for me today, sadness in his eyes, but a little tiny ray of hope too.

I know we have a really really long way to go and this isn’t how I’d imagined it, but this is what I’ve got and I guess my PLAN B has been sacrificed for my PLAN A. It really must have worked after all! Deep breath. Now the hard work begins.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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I cooked a great dinner and have been doing an awesome plan A.

However, as luck would have it he wanted to R talk and wanted to rehash it all and tell me how unhappy I have made him, so much so that he cried himself to sleep last night.

He said he hates when I play happy families and said don't be happy, don't touch him, don't cook for him etc.

AGGGHHHHHH! Day 1 and he is already being difficult.

He said give him the word if I am unhappy and he'll leave. He will stay here for the kids mostly and will just see how it goes with me. He said he feels trapped and angry and sad!

Anyway, I played really cool and did not anger or argue. I plainly stated that I was working on our marriage and would continue to be who I was (happy etc).

He's working on his music and feeling sorry for himself about everything, so I'm staying out of the way completely.

He got mad tonight because he realised our Forum seminar series is together and he wants to do it without me.

I'm still going.

He can sit home and stay with the kids and think of me moving on without him and without anger and sadness.

Does anyone have any tips on how to respond to his pity party and jibes about me playing happy families? It's Plan A from where I sit, but how do I appease him too?


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
2
Member
OP Offline
Member
2
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
The hallway from the lounge to the bedroom goes past the open doorway to the music studio where he was working. I paused to say goodnight and he jumped up and gave me a kiss on the cheek and said good night.

I didn't skip a beat, just took it in my stride and wandered off to bed. I don't know when he got to bed but I put my teddy bear in the middle of the bed and he was there in between us in the morning. Anything to help both of us sleep and relax!

This morning was calm. We dressed the kids and he chatted to me while I did my makeup and let me kiss him on his forehead when I left. I thought he was going to give me the cheek kiss so I beat him to it.

I don't know if he'll come tonight or not. He said no but I know that no is not always no and he's surprised me before. We'll see what happens!

I remembered something he said last night. He said that a friend of his said that I would turn into a mega B$t$h when I realised he was not home for good and would be leaving again and what he had seen so far was nothing. I asked him if that was the truth, if he was just saving money for when he was ready to leave. He said no, that he was home to give it a try to work it out and doesn't want to mess up his kid's lives like his had been.

I'm kind of confused but reminding myself that I need to Plan A with no expectations.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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