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Knocked a few back last night at the local brewpub. I joined up with their 'mug club' early in the year and haven't really made much of my membership considering I might stop in once a month to have a couple and then be on my way.. just haven't been up to socializing there, but I always manage to have some interesting conversations.
Apart from the conversation I had with a local politician last night.. which proved very interesting.. the whole thing became a bit of a celebration of impending liberation, started by my favorite of the beertenders on duty.. she's always been kinda sweet on me, and recently went through the same kind of situation herself.. so it was a good time, and I think it softened the blow pretty good..
So maybe I didn't do exactly as you suggested Foxy.. but I'm taking strides towards seeing this as a positive thing in my life.. though I can still acknowledge just how tragic this is for DS and DSD... I think DD honestly though is better off not having to have that kind of female role model in her life anymore.. so hooray for her too..
Honestly.. the more I detach and think about it objectively.. the less WW ever had to offer me as a spouse..
All hands to battle stations today.. going to enjoy the weekend with DS for sure.. but starting first thing Monday, I'm a man on a mission.
I'll be taking no prisoners for sure..
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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I'll be taking no prisoners for sure.. 
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  Just so we're clear, I wasn't suggesting that you date. I don't, however, think it is a bad idea to be aware of what is out there. It can put your WW in perspective. I'm glad you had a good time and hope your weekend is fabulous. Fox
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Just so we're clear, I wasn't suggesting that you date. I don't, however, think it is a bad idea to be aware of what is out there. It can put your WW in perspective. I'm glad you had a good time and hope your weekend is fabulous. Fox Now now... I'm not dating, but I don't know that I'm going to be all that concerned any more about associating with women as friends at this point.. At this point, the relationship I was protecting by not frequently associating with women as friends is pretty much on it's last gasp, and the plug has been pulled. I'm sure the weekend will be fantastic.. Not even triggered by the email exchange with WW yesterday either.. it's just one of those 'oh well..' type things.. DS, DD, and I are going to the zoo this weekend for their annual Zoo-Boo. The kids all dress in their costumes and get treats as well as get to have fun looking at the animals etc.. DS made a big to-do about having attended a halloween party last weekend with WW, and that he had this awesome race car driver costume.. and he told me on Wednesday that he wanted to wear that this weekend.. Soooo.. I sent an email yesterday morning to WW.. DS will be needing his costume this weekend.
Thx
J Her response was to tell me that there was a sale on halloween costumes at the mall, or that Wal-Mart had them starting at $12.99. I'm not triggered or suprised.. this is the typical level of cooperation I've had over the past year and change... I actually kind of expected it.. Just another prime illustration to the court of which of us is willing to be the cooperative 'primary' parent... I mean.. the request had nothing to do with me.. it was all for DS.. just like last year when I sent the costume I bought for DS back with WW so that she could use it since it went with the 'theme' she had picked out for his bedroom.. I certainly didn't do it for -her-... I did it because DS liked it and wanted it.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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Now now... I'm not dating, but I don't know that I'm going to be all that concerned any more about associating with women as friends at this point.. At this point, the relationship I was protecting by not frequently associating with women as friends is pretty much on it's last gasp, and the plug has been pulled. Gotcha....I just didn't want to be accused of encouraging you to date. I'm just saying that the "hyper-protectiveness" can be relaxed somewhat. I don't think that was clear either, but I think you've got what I meant. Her response was to tell me that there was a sale on halloween costumes at the mall, or that Wal-Mart had them starting at $12.99. You're right, it is typical. Glad you could let it roll. Boo-Zoo sounds fun! Have a great time. Fox
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Her response was to tell me that there was a sale on halloween costumes at the mall, or that Wal-Mart had them starting at $12.99.  But typical. The sooner you can let it roll off, the happier you will be.
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Her response was to tell me that there was a sale on halloween costumes at the mall, or that Wal-Mart had them starting at $12.99. But typical. The sooner you can let it roll off, the happier you will be. No worries on this one.. I kinda hope she keeps this up.. Not that I don't already have a pretty evident pattern of behavior already.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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Ahhh... what a weekend! Windy and chilly was pretty much the order of the weekend here amongst the great fields of corn and soybeans.. but DD, DS and I made the most of it. Friday, DS didn't have his favorite stuffed animal with him at daycare, and said that WB told him he couldn't bring it. He was upset, but said that he'd try to be a big boy and make it through the weekend without it. I don't think the kids gone for more than a few hours without it in his life.. it's a 'security blanket' type thing.. but he didn't seem to give it another thought over the weekend.. which is pretty amazing. After I picked up DS, we went to dinner with my mom and DD, and then the kids and I went costume shopping, then came home and had movie nite since it was too rainy and cool outside to let the kids do much of anything. Iron Man looks amazing in High Def BTW... Thankfully by Saturday though the rain had gone, and looked as if it would hold off for the day, so the kids and I hooked up with my friend, her kids, and her husband to go to the Zoo-Boo. The kids had an absolute blast.. DD was allowed to actually touch one of the Dog Sharks and that was her favorite thing.. and I've got some priceless pictures of DS and the tusked animal we've affectionately nicknamed after a dead Beatle making faces and giving eachother raspberries through the glass. We did run into one of WW's coworkers (not THE coworker) during breakfast Saturday.. funny.. she barely recognized me, but as soon as she figured it out.. they were on their way.. funny the apologetic looks I get from people who know what's really going on. Sunday I took the kids over to mom's place and made breakfast for everyone. The kids love my special pancakes, so I decided I'd treat everyone.. apart from slightly burning the sausage, it was a hit. The exchange though is what's got me troubled a bit today.. not because of anything WW did.. but DS.. As I was strapping him in, he says to WW.. 'Mommy.. you said only one day with daddy?' Her: Huh? DS: You -said-.. only one day with MY DAD! Her: *confused look* Me: What are you talking about DS? Mommy and I don't understand. Him: *curls up.. puts his hands over his face to hide his frustration* I.. I don't know how.. the words to say.. Me: It's ok bub.. we'll get it figured out ok? Him: Ahuh.. Me: *give a hug and a kiss* Ok bud.. I love you.. now be good for mommy this week ok? I'll see you Wednesday. Him: Love you too Daddy.. And that was it.. Not particularly triggering.. until I really got to thinking about what wasn't clicking.. DS was asking about the Tuesdays and Thursdays again.. trying to broach the subject and force WW and I to talk about it again. It bugged me all nite.. so.. this morning I sent this: WW,
DS's comment last night as I was putting him in the van, about only one day with his dad didn't make sense to me at the time, as it wasn't something he'd mentioned since he and I last talked about it after you gave me your answer a few weeks ago. I've thought about what he said in the van, and given with many comments to me in the past several weeks I'm certain it's dealing with our time together during the week.
DS has been complaining about wanting to stay with me more, almost every time I see him there's at least a comment or two here and there about it from him. He's constantly asking when he can stay for a whole week again, and is usually very upset when our evenings are cut short because we have to do an exchange. I've explained to him many times that you and I are trying to work these things out to see how things are going to be for the long term. He's now brought it up twice during the exchanges.. the first when he asked if I was going to talk to you about it.. and I think last night was another effort on his part to bring up the subject.
WW, I'm not trying to start trouble, and regardless of whatever your issues with me are, or mine with you, it's obvious that DS did not choose this arrangement, and that on the weeks where I don't have him on the weekends, going an entire week without being able to spend time with me is difficult on him, it's not what he wants, nor do I believe that it is any benefit to him to be forced to live this way. I'm not merely asking for myself, even though I want the most time with him possible, but I ask one more time for you to please reconsider letting us have time together on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the interim while we wait on a final ruling from the judge.
J No expectations.. or rather.. what I expect is for it to either be ignored as a best case.. or spitefully rejected.. Anything else will be a pleasant suprise.. but I'm not going to trigger over it.. I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't back up DS on this.. it's what he wants, it's what I want.. if he's going to be brave enough (and I'm sure it took an incredible amount of courage for him to bring it up a second time) to make it an issue.. I'm not about to let him think he's going that road alone.. I know he knows better.. but I'm there for him when the rubber meets the road.. and I've been kicking myself for it not 'clicking' at the time, what he was talking about.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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James, Sounds like a wonderful weekend! I applaud you trying again to get the 2 weekdays with DS. Don't beat youself up that you did not catch on right away when he brought it up during the exchange. I can virtually guarantee that when DS said this DS: You -said-.. only one day with MY DAD! SHE knew exactly what he was talking about. Obviously, DS has discussed it with her. He knows that you two don't really talk, so it was his way of forcing her to own up to what SHE said. Shame on her for not acknowledging it. Keeping you both in my prayers that her heart will be softened in this matter.  James
BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
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Thanks Bugsy.. and keep praying.. I know I shouldn't engage her in this sort of crap, and I'll take what lumps y'all feel I deserve.. but in the interest of full disclosure.. here's the exchange this afternoon: Her response James,
My decision to let things be for now stands, not because I have
anything personal against you. I am doing this for DS's sake. It has come to my attention through our son that you have been dumping him off with your mother because you "had to" play with your band. After these occassions, he comes back home stating that he doesn't want to see or talk to you anymore. I have explained to him that you don't "have to" play with your band when he comes to visit, you chose to play with them. I also told him that he needs to let you know that he doesn't like it. I suggest for that if you want to spend more time with DS, you actually spend time with him not give him to your mom to deal with. I refuse to lose time with DS just so you can dump him off with your mother.
WW and my attempt at snakefeeding: WW,
I understand your feelings about the band and the time it used to take me away from our family. I had truly hoped that in your new life and all the happiness that goes with it, you'd have gotten past all of the old bitterness by now. With that in mind however, I can understand where your incorrect assumption in this matter is coming from. Please allow me to put your mind at ease.
It is true, that in the past 14 months, there have been 2 occasions where I have asked Mom to look after DS for a couple of hours at a time, or for her to drive the kids to meet up with me so that they can watch the show. I'd say a total of 6 hours over the course of these two occasions was missed with DS, and he has been nothing but wildly enthusiastic about my music, and if there was any dissapointment expressed, I am sure it is as a result of him not being able to do absolutely everything with me as a result of our mutual decision not to expose him to a certain individual. Because of your concerns, and my already limited time with DS, I have gone to great lengths to ensure that my bands schedule does not interfere if at all possible, with our time together.
What is not true is the assumpion/insinuation that I am always 'dumping' him, as you say on my mother.
With those two exceptions and the visit in June with DSD, DD, DSD's grandparents, DS has spent every moment of our time together with me.
At the risk of dealing with another justification, my request still stands, on both my and DS's behalf for any and all additional time you might be willing to allow us. In truth... DS wanted me to ask for even more than I have so far, but I told him that in your letter you had only agreed to Tuesdays and Thursdays, and that I'd have to ask to see if we could start it before everything was finished. He's asked you at least twice now, as have I. Let's please stop manufacturing justifications and pretending that it DS is in any way better off now that you've chosen for our family to have to live like this, or that it's for his sake that he can't spend more time with me.
This is the last I intend to write on the matter, if I do not hear back, I'll assume this is your final answer and we'll work everything out with the judge. I truly hoped it wouldn't have to come to this, and I pray you will reconsider.
J Ready to take my lumps now.. Got a meet with the A tomorrow.. Mediation Dec 4, Hearing Dec 8th
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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Ugh.. she didn't waste any time replying to that one.. This is a doozie folks.. sit back, and grab your martinis.. James,
For now my decision remains the same. DS tells a different story while he is with me and it isn't that he wants to spend more time with you. However, I am not trying to "justify" anything nor am I trying to get any justification from you. I simply stated that DS told me you left him with your mother to play with your band and that I do not feel guilty or sorry that you feel you aren't spending enough time with him if that is the case. As to one of the occassions I was referring to, I hope to god you didn't bring our son to a party or have your mom bring our son to a party.
I also do not appreciate the fact that you even attempted to bring the subject up while DS was around. Discussion such as visitation and anything else we need to work out should be discussed without DS present. You put him in the middle and I really do not appreciate it.
You have gotten quite comfortable with talking to DS about many things regarding this divorce that should be none of his concern. I am asking you right now to please stop it. I do not want our son to feel like he is being split in two or that he has to choose between his parents.
This is the last email you will receive from me on this subject. If you cannot grow up and act like a civil adult, then please refrain from emailing me. Everytime you get an answer that you don't like, you act like a petulant child. I do not have this email account for that kind of junk. You told me once before that you pay your attorney to handle all this unpleasantness, please utilize that route if you cannot attempt to act like a civil human being.
In the meantime, I will think about visitation being on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Despite what you believe I love DS with everything in me and want only the best for him. I would never hurt DS regardless of whatever "payback" you think I am trying to serve you. And I would never use DS as a tool to get back at you, regardless of what you think.
WW My guess is she's never read Lovebusters...
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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James,
In the legal world, it's clearly res ipsa loquitur or in English, "the document speaks for itself."
Can you say gaslighting?
Sheesh...
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Yeah.. I can say gaslighting.. but to be honest, my initial response was. Huh? 
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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What's the childish taunt,,,,,,
I'm like teflon,
You're like glue.
What you say bounces off me, but sticks to you!
Or
The best defense is a good offense
Or
WTF?
Or
Typical wayward thinking,,,,just accuse the BS of everything you know YOU have done. Yeahh,,,, that's the ticket!
I guess my personal favorite part is that she is "still thinking" about giving you the 2 days?? PUH-LEEZ.
When is the judge supposed to be making a ruling?
BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
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What's the childish taunt,,,,,,
I'm like teflon,
You're like glue.
What you say bounces off me, but sticks to you! No no Bugs.. didn't you read.. _I_ am the childish one.. Or
The best defense is a good offense Yeah.. but I think she's confused offense with being offensive. Or
Typical wayward thinking,,,,just accuse the BS of everything you know YOU have done. Yeahh,,,, that's the ticket! We have a winner!! Actually.. this is a big trend with her. Wish I could say it started with the A.. but alas.. I can't. I guess my personal favorite part is that she is "still thinking" about giving you the 2 days?? PUH-LEEZ. Right.. so after all that.. she'll uh.. think about it. New addition to the wayward dictionary: I'll Think About It - Def: OM and I will have a good laugh over this while the kids continue to suffer. When is the judge supposed to be making a ruling? December 8th is my guess. I'll be ready.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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Actually.. this is a big trend with her. Wish I could say it started with the A.. but alas.. I can't. This is an important realization/admission on your part, James. You know now that you'll be much better off without her in your life. She's 2 mangos shy of a chutney. Problem is that you'll have 2 deal with her until your son is old enough 2 choose for himself where he wants 2 live. Try 2 minimize those interactions. Definitely ask your lawyer whether clarification is needed, in the form of a letter from him 2 her lawyer. You don't want the judge 2 see what she said about you as "evidence" in any way shape or form. -ol' 2long
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I'm not sure I completely agree with that 2long..
I think it may be important to the judge to see which of us is trying to be the diplomat and do what is in DS's best interest, and which of us is foaming at the mouth ready to lash out at every opportunity.
I'll certainly be discussing with my A this afternoon.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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I think you misunders2d me.
I agree that you need the judge 2 see what efforts your making that your stbxw is trying 2 reinterpret and trash. And going through your lawyer is the best way 2 document this - not continuing/escalating the back and forth with the former spousal unit.
-ol' 2long
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I think you misunders2d me.
I agree that you need the judge 2 see what efforts your making that your stbxw is trying 2 reinterpret and trash. And going through your lawyer is the best way 2 document this - not continuing/escalating the back and forth with the former spousal unit.
-ol' 2long Ahhh, I see your point, and agree completely. I do not intend to respond to this kind of baiting from her. This most recent exchange is something I intend to discuss with my A this afternoon. If he feels it'd be prudent to send a letter to her lawyer I'm sure we will, however I'd about bank on his suggestion to be to let it drop at this point.. I've asked, she's given her answer.. now we're off to see the judge with this in hand as evidence that she's not going to be the party who is fostering and encouraging a good relationship with the non-custodial parent. Just my uninformed opinion, but I'm starting to be able to read the writing on the wall.. I'm going to use everything I have and leverage it as best as I can towards my advantage.. I have a little over a month to prepare.. I'll be ready.
Me - 32
DS - 5
DD - 13
DSD - 9
D final 12-8-08
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Despite our best intentions and knowing how pointless it will be, sometimes we can't help ourselves from engaging with the WS.
Her frame of reference is so different from yours now. Your wife--she's gone. In her mind, she stopped being your wife a long time ago, and she's still using whatever justifications made it "okay" for her to do what she did in the first place. Waywards suck.
You're not going to convince her that what she did and continues to do is wrong. I know that I still have an impulse to do this--to show the SCQ the error of her ways and get her to recognize it. But it's just not going to happen. The sooner we can let go of that drive, the happier we will be.
At the moment, your nearest fire hydrant will provide better conversation than your WW.
Hang in there, amigo. Peace is out there waiting for you.
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