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#2148989 10/27/08 04:36 PM
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http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/10/24/obama-dems-seek-to-end-401-k-plans/

I hate it when the government says they know better than myself how to spend MY hard earned money. Get ready folks - cradle to grave govt care is on hand.

I also hate it when they change the rules in the middle of the game. Is this Social Security X 2 ?

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Sen. Barack Obama's Democratic allies in Congress are looking into a radical new plan that would fundamentally change the way Americans save for retirement. House Democrats recently heard testimony on the idea and, under a potential Obama administration, would likely move to put it in place. Democrats want to seize the money that workers currently invest in their 401(k) plans and replace the popular retirement savings accounts with a one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account. Under the scheme, Americans would be forced to transfer all of their hard earned retirement savings from their 401(k) to the government.

The government would contribute $600 a year to fund each account and would pay a rate of return of around three percent in interest. The government would also mandate that each worker contribute 5% of their yearly salary to the accounts. Under current law, workers with 401(k) plans contribute to their retirement accounts and earn interest tax free. The Democrats' plan would end those tax breaks, amounting to as much as a 15% tax hike on each American worker.

Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) said recently that Democrats had better ideas for the $80 billion that Americans contribute to their 401(k) plans each year. "We have to start thinking about whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that's not doing what we say it should." Sen. Obama would likely sign on to the plan as president.

Last edited by rwinger; 10/27/08 04:53 PM.

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Here is another interesting piece from a 2001 Obama interview concerning the Civil Rights movement and his perceived failures.

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"It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it has been interpreted.

"And the Warren court interpreted it generally in the same way -- that the Constitution is a document of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf, and that hasn't shifted.


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/1...reme-court-ruling-redistributing-wealth/

Interesting - the new age will be nothing less.



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It won't be any worse than the last 8 years.


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Not like we have a SS to fall on anyways... Nice to know they want to take 401K away as well...


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one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account

Uh, wasn't that kind of the point of SS to begin with? Gee, what a great idea, let replenish the almost deplete existing SS with income contributed redistributed from hard-working folks' (the majority of which are baby-boomers) 401K accounts so we can support all the claims for SS that will be coming up quickly when these same baby-boomers start to retire.

Is THAT one of the way's Osbama's planning to redistribute the wealth?


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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
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one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account

Uh, wasn't that kind of the point of SS to begin with? Gee, what a great idea, let replenish the almost deplete existing SS with income contributed redistributed from hard-working folks' (the majority of which are baby-boomers) 401K accounts so we can support all the claims for SS that will be coming up quickly when these same baby-boomers start to retire.

Is THAT one of the way's Osbama's planning to redistribute the wealth?

And if Republicans hadn't burned through the money put aside to support SS plus $5 trillion in addtional national debt, we wouldn't be looking for options in order to keep SS solvent.

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And if Republicans hadn't burned through the money put aside to support SS plus $5 trillion in addtional national debt, we wouldn't be looking for options in order to keep SS solvent.

And they did that all by themselves? Wow.

HOWEVER "we" meaning U.S. citizens (politics aside) have found ourselves in this situation, do you really believe that forcing people to move their 401ks (IF that's what is being suggested, I don't know) is really a good plan?

I know I've worked long and hard to save up my 401K. I would have a BIG problem with dumping it into a government-controlled fund.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think this is it-- regardless of how we got here.


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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Is THAT one of the way's Osbama's planning to redistribute the wealth?

Different day, same old pathetic smear tactic from a side that claims to be so hurt by the "nastiness" from Democrats... Nov 4 can't come soon enough.

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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
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And if Republicans hadn't burned through the money put aside to support SS plus $5 trillion in addtional national debt, we wouldn't be looking for options in order to keep SS solvent.

And they did that all by themselves? Wow.

HOWEVER "we" meaning U.S. citizens (politics aside) have found ourselves in this situation, do you really believe that forcing people to move their 401ks (IF that's what is being suggested, I don't know) is really a good plan?

I know I've worked long and hard to save up my 401K. I would have a BIG problem with dumping it into a government-controlled fund.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think this is it-- regardless of how we got here.

I don't claim to know the answer either, but the point of the article is obviously political. It's a poor attempt, a week before the election, to further vilify Democrats. It's completely omitted that this was one of MANY proposals given to them about POSSIBLE courses of action to keep SS solvent. Nothing has been decided upon yet. That's not what they want you to hear though. All they care about is scaring you into voting for Republicans.

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This is nothing to do with SS solvency. That issue has been highlighted since the Carter admin - SS is demographic timebomb - one of the reasons why we need more immigrants from the south of the border.

The issue from what I can tell - is a confiscation of the dollars being saved for retirement by responsible people.

The unanswered question in the proposal is what happens to the retirement acct when you pass away before retirement. Will the govt just get to keep it? What about the heirs?

What the article seems to say is that everyone will participate with 5% taken from the paycheck (after taxes) with a guarenteed return of 3%. There is a segment of the population that will benefit since they do not have the discipline to save any of their income.

The inability to put money aside in a 401K will raise taxes for the average working middle class. Obviously the rich and poor have no use of these retirement tools.

I am just saying that with Reid-Pelosi-Obama troika and a super majortiy dem senate, there will be no way to stop the train.
Do you think they will use any new tax money to pay down the debt?

I have some concerned that the change everyone is wanting will bring unintended consequences.

Check this out

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/


Last edited by rwinger; 10/28/08 11:49 AM.

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if anyone tries to confiscate 401K money we will see a real revolution in this country. I guarantee you that if there is an attempt to take my hard earned savings, someones head will roll...and I mean that literally.

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Social Security is a real sticking point to me. It was instituted in a time when there were very limited or non-existent retirement account options for people and it served a valuable purpose. In the present day, there are a bewildering amount of retirement savings options that offer much better returns than social security.

So if SS was instituted purely for the citizens' benefit, why can I NOT opt out in favor of choosing my own retirement savings. My paycheck takes a higher hit from SS than it does from state taxes and there is no guarantee that I will ever see that money again, when its not even supposed to BE a tax. I am only 30 years old, so I have another 35 years of paying SS to look forward to, with no guaranteed payoff from this retirement account.

The simple reason is that if people could opt out, most people probably would and the government would have no one to steal from to repay what they owe the people currently collecting.

If the government attempted to follow through with this 401(k) plan, they would literally have to seize the funds, because once announced, I predict people would cash them out immediately. They would pay the penalty in order to maintain control over their own money. This plan would be an absolutely TERRIBLE idea.


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Originally Posted by medc
if anyone tries to confiscate 401K money we will see a real revolution in this country. I guarantee you that if there is an attempt to take my hard earned savings, someones head will roll...and I mean that literally.

There is not a word in any of the actual proposals about confiscating 401K money, so no revolt is needed.

The discussion is around what tax benefits/breaks to give future 401K deductions.

With all the current buying up of banks, automakers, and who-knows-what-next, it's not surprising that all sorts of taxes and tax breaks are being considered.

This is no more messed up than the fact that we (the current tax base) are paying for Social Security for folks who never put in anywhere near the amount of money that we are now contributing to the system. Someone needs to rework the whole system, but no one seems to have the guts or horsepower to do it.

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This is no more messed up than the fact that we (the current tax base) are paying for Social Security for folks who never put in anywhere near the amount of money that we are now contributing to the system. Someone needs to rework the whole system, but no one seems to have the guts or horsepower to do it.

Every attempt to reform have been met with army of lobbyists to the point the inertia of this majour undertaking overwhelms the reformers.

I see IRA and 401K accts the a success story for the middle class worker.


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This is no more messed up than the fact that we (the current tax base) are paying for Social Security for folks who never put in anywhere near the amount of money that we are now contributing to the system. Someone needs to rework the whole system, but no one seems to have the guts or horsepower to do it.

Exactly! I'd vote for the candidate (Republican or Democrat) who could come up with a clear, realistic, doable plan to get this done.


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Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) said recently that Democrats had better ideas for the $80 billion that Americans contribute to their 401(k) plans each year.

LOL that they have better ideas for other people's money. rotflmao Why not just take everyone's entire paycheck and then give them only what they think that person "needs." Geez I can't wait to quit my job.


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Originally Posted by black_raven
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Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) said recently that Democrats had better ideas for the $80 billion that Americans contribute to their 401(k) plans each year.

LOL that they have better ideas for other people's money. rotflmao Why not just take everyone's entire paycheck and then give them only what they think that person "needs." Geez I can't wait to quit my job.

Maybe his district should have a better idea and fire him instead of sending him back to DC for another term.

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Originally Posted by Want2Stay
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
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one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account

Uh, wasn't that kind of the point of SS to begin with? Gee, what a great idea, let replenish the almost deplete existing SS with income contributed redistributed from hard-working folks' (the majority of which are baby-boomers) 401K accounts so we can support all the claims for SS that will be coming up quickly when these same baby-boomers start to retire.

Is THAT one of the way's Osbama's planning to redistribute the wealth?

And if Republicans hadn't burned through the money put aside to support SS plus $5 trillion in addtional national debt, we wouldn't be looking for options in order to keep SS solvent.

Want2Stay

That's right, it's ALL the republicans fault. The demacrat's have had NOTHING to do with the problems/issues etc in this country. That's why the demacratic controled congress has such a LOW APPROVAL rating. Hmmmmm.....even lower than Bush's rating. But that doesn't tell you anything does it???

How about lets blame EVERYONE involved, which is BOTH PARTIES and stop laying the blame on just one party.... rant2



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How about lets blame EVERYONE involved, which is BOTH PARTIES and stop laying the blame on just one party....

Thank. You.


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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
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How about lets blame EVERYONE involved, which is BOTH PARTIES and stop laying the blame on just one party....

Thank. You.

I think we (the people) should fire every last one of them and send them back to their home states to get real jobs. Then we can appoint 'average people' from all society levels for those positions. Maybe then we can get REAL CHANGE rant2

Take my 401K ..... they know better what to do with it.....YA RIGHT!!! faint

Last edited by JoJo422; 10/31/08 07:40 AM. Reason: typo :blush:

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