One of my biologists here at work wears it.

I LOVE the way it smells.

Reminds me of my favorite aunt.

A lot of the organic markets carry it.

HE suggested that?


No actually I suggested it since he said part of the reason for canceling on Sunday was because he was exhausted and didn't want to drive(hour away). So I offered. I have offered 2 times so far, but he has not taken the offer(I'm sure because he'll get h3ll fire from OW). We chatted on phone a bit yesterday evening, we talk about how beautiful the weather was today and says he's on the patio-I of course wanna say Oh the patio of your and OW's place but I held my tongue and just agreed and changed subject
Yes I am working on my conditions now.

Oh good I'm glad you mentioned that I was wondering where I can get the oils at. So health food stores?

Hey guys I'm working on my conditions. I have a few questions and need your feedback.

Ok when I started noticing him gone more he said he didn't want to brave the traffic during rush hour, so he would stop at a restaurant and go to the bar. Personally until I feel trust is restored I want him to come straight home-No Bars. When he told me, he said he had to drink more to kill the guilt and more he drank the less he felt for me and the more he felt for OW. His drinking went from 2 or 3 a day to probably 6 a day during that time.

I want solid conditions for our protections should he come home, but I don't want them so hard he'll give up. What do you all say about that?

Yes, not so hard that he'll give up, they must be do-able for a reasonable person. But a WS isn't always a reasonable person.

One thing you could ask is if he *is* going to be late getting home or not come straight home, that he is to call you right away. You should know where he is at all times. I think some ppl have their WS's call them when they leave work, so they'll know how long it should take them to get home.

No bars is a very reasonable request. Going to bars is not necessary to sustain life or mental health.

Ok guys this is what i have so far for my conditions. Let me know if you think its overboard or if there is something I can add to it.......


CONDITIONS TO COME HOME
Letter to Toad, explaining that you will not communicate with her EVER again. No loopholes. No contact for the rest of your life stating something like you love me and your family and the affair was a huge mistake and that your wife didn't deserve this and you intend to work on the marriage and want no contact with her for any reason for ever. Period. When you are finished with this letter it should be given to me so I may insure its mailing.

Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go.(1 month in he said we can still be married I will just stay somewhere else 3 days a week, I obviously said NO and he proceeded to tell me that its because I'm black and white)

Full and complete disclosure. Become completely honest. Our marriage will not survive further deception. I want to be able to ask as much as needed and then move on. No lies or hiding any part of truth, no covering, just the full and complete truth.

Read Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley and abide by the principals in the book. Join the MB forum so you have support while going through recovery and stay on forum for at least 6-8 months, posting at least 4 times weekly.

Cut off all ties to any new friends or family you made by this Affair. No phone calls or emails to and from them.

No discussion of the Toad. No crying over her in front of me or speaking about her in my presence unless I have asked.(when he came home the 1st time I let him cry over her funky butt in front of me I even comforted him EWEEEEEE! )

Change Cell phone number and close down all emails and use the family email account and tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind. Iif contact is made and if you are honest about this, we will simply find a way to prevent it from happening again through more precautions.

Since she previously worked at employer and everyone there knows, I would like the both of us to go into employer and explain our plans for recovery ask them to never again schedule you in Orange county and give you a new email address and cell phone #. Have the office or manager intercept all calls for your old email and cell phone.

Close secret email accounts that you started when communicating with her. Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible.

Close down personal bank account and use family bank account.(I found him hiding money before discovery and that's when I knew all wasn't well ). All deposits will be made into joint bank account.


Get rid of anything she has given you, cards, memorabilia, anything at all.

Accountability for time until trust is restored. This means phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Calling when late etc. Do whatever necessary to establish trust.

Understand the pain and misery that this affair has put on the family and by breaking or refusal of conditions it would be at the cost of the marriage.

I know Whole Foods has it...and Sun Harvest.

If this happens - your WH should ask for TST's support (male MB member with exceptional FWH insight who can call "bullchit" when necessary - and still let a guy be a guy)

No discussion of the Toad. No crying over her in front of me...
I don't think this is realistic. He *will* miss her. He may cry over hurting her, and over hurting you at the same time. It's a DJ on your part to think you know what he's crying about, unless he explicitly tells you. I think it's better to encourage complete honesty in the marriage. If he needs to mourn the A, then he needs to feel safe doing so. Doesn't mean you have to comfort him (and reward it), just that he can do it w/o getting punished for his transparency.

Accountability for time until trust is restored.
Accountability for time for life. And that goes for both of you. It's just what married people do.

You might also put in there that you're allowed to put a key logger on the computer, that you can put a GPS on the car(s), and that he will swap personal cellphones with you at your request at any time.

Understand the pain and misery that this affair has put on the family and by breaking or refusal of conditions it would be at the cost of the marriage.
If you make an ultimatum like this, you better be 100% prepared to back it up. i.e. if he cries about the Toad in front of you, are you willing to kick him out, put the house for sale, and file for D so fast his head will spin?

It's a great start! I think you're setting the bar at a very reasonable level. High enough to have a M worth having, and not so high that it's unrealistic (well, except that crying bit )

I was wondering if it's safe for her to invite him to MB right away? Does she need a safe place to discuss strategies like snooping, without him finding out?

I like pretty much everything in your letter, except your first paragraph. He has to write her the conditions of no contact-- HE has to gove (or not give) his reasons.

If you make it too "bossy" (first say this...say this..say that..) it will sound like it is coming from YOU and OW have a sixth sense for that
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND
- Wouldn't you rather HEAR from him his reasons for coming home?

I like your general terms, good luck to you.

I disagree.

I think a WH can bloody well excuse himself to the privacy of the bathroom to cry over TOAD.

This is my vote:

"If you are going to grieve the loss of TOAD, excuse yourself from the room first."

hear hear. I put up with his moping during the false recovery, was not interested this time. No sadness is ever shown in front of me, no sympathy is given

I mean I am in full understanding that he will mourn her and may miss her. I've been through it once already and understand the withdrawal symptoms of it too, but I would rather he mourn in private or when he is away for 10 hours at work.

I do understand he may need a neutral space where he can be him self, but I truthfully don't want to see it. There have been months and months where I did not cry in front of my children for their benefit and security. I felt it was not fair they see mom constantly like that so I mourned at mid-night and I cried in the shower.

I think maybe it can be approached in a way that is beneficial to both of us. I just don't want to necessarily look at him constantly moping and crying over her. Is that wrong?

Of course it's not wrong!

Sometimes they don't do the expected grieving. My H did not.
It depends how long the A has been going on. The closer to 2 years the more the A has lost it's fizzle anyway (especially if they live together ... it makes the whole thing a lot less romantic)

Dear God 2 years!!!! I have just made it to my 1st goal of 6 months I am hoping to make it to 12 months, but 2 years Dear God!!! So your H did not grieve. Lucky you! When my H came home for the 2 weeks after discovery he stinking cried all the time, he moped, he sighed as soon as his eyes opened, he asked me to pray for her, he asked me if we could give her money, I mean man how much self respect must one take. It was really hard and I felt like crap.

Yeah I think that them living together can definitely have it's advantage. Waking up to each other, taking out the trash, her not doing laundry or cooking. I talked to him today after he got home from work and he was eating Top Ramen again...ick

He texted me a few days ago saying your a good mother. I'm wondering if he can see she is not. The 1st 5 months he kept chewing me out asked me what kind of mother doesn't force their kids to visit him bashed me all kinds of ca ca. But the fact that he said that was interesting to me. OW has been divorced, was engaged when she did this, she has 3 kids ages 18, 14, 9. The 14 year old girl was getting in trouble with the police so much she had to ship her off, so I am assuming H lives w/OW and her 9 year old son. I mean what kinda of woman moves in a strange man with a child who does not know him?!?!?! Sick!!!! Anyways I think he notices her parenting.

You misunderstand me.

His affair was almost 2 years old when I discovered it.

Most affairs last around 2 years, then die out.

Gotcha!

Well we got H coming over tomorrow for pumpkin carving and dinner. Gonna have everything ready (domestic needs) nice dinner and a clean house!

Should go well, I'm sure he'll be looking forward to dinner since he ramen yesterday LMAO!!!!

Pumpkin carving... hmmm...

I've been told that the smell of pumpkin pie baking (with the pumpkin pie spice, including cinnamon) is one of the best aphrodisiacs for men. Seriously. Better than perfume.

Now, I wonder how that info might come in handy............