mg71,

At this point, you just need to "take your WW's temperature" ... meaning ... is she ready to admit to the A and recommit to you and her family. I gave you a sample yesterday of how I would ask her the initial question.

In reality, all future advice, and the likelihood of whether your M will survive, will be predicated on how she responds to these two questions:

What was the extent of your A with Rah Rah Boy?

Are you prepared to cease all contact with him FOR LIFE and recommit to our M?

There will be other follow up questions, but these are the starting point, and the two most important. If she starts to lie or gaslight you, revert to the response I posted yesterday.

mg71,

If you can find "Meredith" do the girl the biggest favor of her life and tell her what has happened.

Beware of having her see just any individual counselor/IC. They may hurt more than help your recovery. I suggest MB counseling and, if possible, try to schedule the next MB weekend. You will get the home study course with the weekend. It can take a year to work through together. That can be difficult but with that comes growth.

Golfer,

POM said, "The louder the bark, the worse the truth is."

Yep. My WW at our first "chat" when she finally agreed to face me in person after I told her I knew screamed at me that she "was not admitting anything!!! This is all your fault!!!""

She then picked up the beer I was drinking and smashed it on the patio floor scattering glass everywhere and stormed off to leave until I rationally told her if she walked out the door we were done forever.

When POM says be ice cold, he is right. You need to have your loose script down ahead of time as to what little snippets you will let out when she starts to lie. And she will lie. COunt on it. It took me 4 days of 2 hour talks until she finally admitted it, and even then it was still a lie, at least the extent of the PA. They are very clever and manipulative these WW's. I had to come up with a very elaborate story to trick my WW into thinking I knew everything and would leak a little here and there to get her back on track.

It was only when 2 weeks after she admitted it and said it was over that I found 2 opened and empty condom packets put back in the box in my house and confronted her again that she was still sleeping with OM that she admitted a lot more. She tried to pin that on DD. She is still lying though to this day.

mg71,

Just an afterthought and to expand on what you already been told ... this is very important ... BE THE ICE MAN, when you are around your WW. We all know you will have moments when you are starting to feel out of control. When those occur, just excuse yourself and go to the bathroom until you can compose yourself for Round 2.

You have several advantages at this point ... remaining calm and cool, again think "ICE MAN" ... will preserve those advantages.

- You have much more knowledge about the A than your WW realizes. Use this to your advantage by dropping names, and rough time lines to keep your WW off guard BUT DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SOURCES OR SHOW YOUR WW PROOF. If she questions how you know, just say that "I KNOW, and you were there ... so there is nothing that needs to be proven"

- Due to the knowledge you have gained here, you will know her likely responses in advance and will be prepared with answers that will keep her off guard and guessing.

- Given your FIL's reaction, I'm going to assume that your WW came from a good family, and as such, her guilt and embarrassment should be really working on her. If I am correct in this assumption, then this will be your greatest weapon to break through any remaining fog.

- Rah Rah Boy just admitted in the email that it was "all just fun while it lasted" and to not contact him again, so she is also feeling like a piece of meat about now, in addition to the guilt and public embarrassment.

Stay cool and strong and you will likely get to the bottom of this MUCH faster than most.

You are doing a GREAT JOB, continue to post here frequently and trust your instincts ... they have served you well up to this point.

Great advice!


More great advice. Remember to BE THE ICEMAN!

James Bond is a better model.

Very cool under pressure and stress. Model him in your actions and behavior.

Don't become Tony Soprano.

MG,

Perhaps I can set what everyone is telling you in terms that you are more comfortable with. You are playing in the biggest tournament of your life (Think Masters), you have a one stroke lead and you are entering Amen Corner.

You are excited, fearful, pumped, and determined. What should your swing look and feel like? Smooth, relaxed, and steady. What should your mind be doing? Thinking of the wind, the break on the green's, where the traps are, the hazards, and then...it should be blank with simply the target in your minds eye.

That is where you need to go for the next week or so. You need to handle the pressure and execute your plan. STep 1 is to let HER talk, and talk, and talk. You prompt this with hints about what you know, and where you want to go (recovered marriage), and then you let her talk some more.

It is hard to do, if you are not cool, but here like golf doesn't mean you aren't in turmoil, it means you are in a gathering information mode, you are LISTENING and WATCHING.

Mgolfer, have you ever played with a deaf person or tried to teach them golf? I ask because most folks would never understand how much sound plays a role in the game of golf. Like golf you need to listen and watch and say much less than you want to.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

This looks like a romantic affair for her. She is also fishing for information about what MG may or may not know.



This had to be a real blow to her. He tells her she really meant nothing to him and invokes the name of his true love fiancé to boot.


She will not accept this. She will be trying to make contact with him today.

He reveals his greatest fear. She may even threaten to expose to Meredith herself in order to talk to him.

I think more than anything she wants to know how all of this was discovered and is contacting him to see if he knows. She also wants to know from him how much he has disclosed so she can sync her story with that.

She'll definitely be trying to reach him today. Be warned!

Another thing, she will be looking for how you found out by searching stuff at home. She'll start checking YOUR email and computer IP (intellectual property) on your home PC, HandHelds and your work laptop (if you have one).

Lock all your electronic stuff down, change passwords and purge cookies/history files AND do not use the home PC if you can help it.

You absolutely don't want her finding MB and reading these posts. They will be used against you. Trust me on this. WS's do start to snoop on YOU once exposed.

Jo

Thanks again to all of you. It is very calming to have a place to vent, ask questions, and get inside info on what to expect. I went home again at lunch like I normally do, and she is still in the same clothes that she’s been in since Monday night. I suggested that a long shower may make her feel better to which she responded “why? I don’t have anywhere to go.” I think she’s in some kind of depression.

By the way, I looked back at last years cheerleading roster in her files last night and found a Meredith that graduated this past May. I called the cell phone number on the list this morning and it turned out to be the right one. I told her as much as I could without giving away my source. She was of course very upset, but thanked me for letting her know. After thinking about what you guys were posting, I decided that I couldn’t live with myself if I let her marry him without knowing what he had been up too. I would want the same consideration if I was in her shoes.

I’ve decided to go ahead and talk to her tonight. Since I’m off tomorrow, this will give me some extra time over a day and a half in case it takes multiple talks to get the truth from her. I think I’ll take the advice from here and simply ask her to tell me her side of the story and let her know before she starts that I’ve been digging and know way more than I’ve told her at this point. If she still tries to lie, I’ll remind her that I know the truth and I know she’s lying. I’m thinking of giving her a couple of chances and if she lies the third time, I’ll just stop her and tell her that we’ll try again later after she decides to be honest. If she gets angry and starts shifting blame at any point, I’ll just walk away and tell her that I won’t accept the blame for her bad choices and when she’s able to be honest and talk with me calmly that we can continue.

My FIL also called me on my cell last night to check up on her. I thanked him again for being so supportive of me and our marriage. I also assured him that I still loved her and just wanted what was best for me, her, and our family. He has been amazing to me since he found out about this on Monday.

Well, I’ve got to get back to work. Wish me well tonight. I’m afraid I’ll need all the help I can get.

Good job MG.

I wish I could be there when she calls Rah Rah Boy. Choices and consequences.


Yep I remember those talks! I brought Wayzilla's suitcase to one of them.

Good luck MG, you have done a great job.

I applaud you. You may have saved her from going through what you are now going through. At least they will start their marriage on honest grounds!


I would suggest you not telling her you have been snooping. Just say something to the effect of, you need to be honest with me. What happened? I say this b/c you need her to be honest of her own accord, not b/c she thinks you already know. When she lies to you and says it was not a "physical affair" or "we were just friends", reply calmly, cooly, as if you do not care. "Do you think I am that stupid, that naieve? I do not send nude pictures to my FRIENDS!" Walk off and let her chase you to reveal what she wants to. If she keeps lying, go with the "I know you slept with rah rah boy, so quit beating around the bush and tell me what really happened." If she continues lying (the third time), I would tell her to pack her $hit and get out. Come home when she is ready to be honest. Most others here would say this will drive her to OM, but at this point I think you have already broke the A up. Now you need to bring her back to reality, a reality that inlcudes her losing her family. Get some other feedback on this part b/c i am sure it will be contentious.


You have tremendous support in her family. If you do kick her out, I think she will run to them. Sounds like your FIL will tell her to get her ace back home and start leveling with you b/c YOU want to work it out to save your marriage and family.

MGOLFER,

"" I need some help from you guys about what is most helpful to cover in this first talk. I have hundreds of questions, but I don’t want to overwhelm her at this point. I know we need to discuss NC with OM. Is it to early to demand that she get into counseling? Is it okay to ask specific questions about the affair or will I just get lies at this point?

I really want to set reasonable expectations""

You are dealing with this in the best way possible. Very orderly, calmly and "strategically".

NC with OM is a must. So do discuss this with her. It sounds like OM has already done that and will run screaming the other way if he sees her. The NC letter should not be too hard to do.

She is now hurt, humiliated and all alone. You can be her rock and safe haven. There could be some questions asked by you, but she might start running her mouth, confessing all. She has NO WHERE else to turn, correct?

I would say hold off demanding counseling. She is going to go through WITHDRAWAL from the OM. This can be easy or very hard. Like an alcoholic quitting the booze cold turkey. She is still addicted to the endorphins that saturated her brain when they were together. Endorphins like you experience swimming for 45 minutes. The withdrawal can take a week or a month.

If you do suggest counseling, I would suggest that you suggest you both go to MC, to a pro-marriage MC. That way it's not your wife that needs it because she is broken, but you both need it to recover the marriage. To commit to rebuilding.

The therapist can direct the conversation and act like a referee if the anger rises.

When she gets through the withdrawal, and realizes the error of her ways, (understatement) then the questions can be asked. The WW will always tone down the answers because 1) they are embarrassed and 2) they don't want to hurt you anymore than they have already. And 3) SOMETIMES they feel, down deep, they are betraying what they had with the OP. If you get a feel that is happening then she is not totally done with the withdrawal.

Reasonable expectations?? Best not to have any. Hope for the best, but keep snooping and attentive. She will have to earn your trust which will take a while.

Hope for complete remorse and realization of what she has done. Hope for total commitment to you and the marriage and to rebuild and recover.

With no remorse you got a problem.

IMHO

kirk

Wow. Just wow. You did the right thing. Now that young woman can make an informed decision about the rest of her life.


She probably is depressed and ashamed and embarrassed. Her whole world as she knew it has been rocked. You have shined the light in the crack house as we like to say around here.

Just a thought, but are you concerned about her hurting herself?

Mg71,
It becomes clearer with every post that you are a man of great character. You definitely did the right thing by locating and telling Meredith. You would have been complicit in her deception if you had not. Its got to feel nice that over the course of the weekend you have blown up OM's world. In 3 days he has:
a) Had his A exposed to the school, and probably had a black mark added to his file in some form.
b) Had his A exposed to his parents, lost some of their respect and nearly lost his med school financing
c) Had his A exposed to his fiance, who should kick his [censored] to the curb if she knows what is good for her.

Hopefully, he has been forced to learn that you don't screw with another man's family.

Keep doing what you are doing. And please stick around to impart some of your good judgment to newly betrayed husbands.

Agreed. I wouldn't let WW know anything mg71. Just pose the question and see where she goes with it.


But where is OM? Living in his dorm? LOL Rah Rah Boy already knows he stands to lose his financial backing if he sees WW and he seems to have woken up and smelled the coffee faster than WW. Plus OM is going to be busy groveling to Meredith soon enough. I'd keep WW home if possible mg71. But if YOU can't handle having her at home right you can always offer up staying with her parents for a bit. You keep the children though and keep to their normal routine as much as possible.

Way to go by finding Meredith.

Very nice work.

MG,

You do good work...

Amen to this. My ex used the keylogger I used on her against me and got into my emails. She wanted to monitor the emails between my family and I. I don't know why else she spied since I wasn't doing anything, but she kept tabs on what my family was telling me in emails.

She still spies on me today and reads my posts here on MB and has tried to use them against me in court.

Guard your sources as if your life depended on them because the custody of your children just might.

I tipped my hand way too early, revealed my sources, how I got my information, and paid a price for doing so.

Please understand that while we are all telling you to be James Bond or Mr. Cool we understand the horrible pain you feel inside. We know that it feels like your heart is going to jump out of your chest and literally hurts. We know that there is a low level of nausea just below the surface which makes you not want to eat. We know that food has lost most of its flavor when you do try to eat.

We know these things because we experienced them as you are experiencing them now. That's why our advice carries weight. We've been there. Some of us are advising you based on how we wished we had behaved with 20/20 hindsight. Others are advising you because they succeeded in doing what we're advising you to do.

It's tough and it sucks and we know how much you're hurting. But we're in your corner and you're not alone and you will always find people here to vent to and help you out and who have walked in your shoes.