My wife of 15 years told me about a month ago that “she loved me but wasn’t in love with me anymore.” I have tried since that time to improve myself and work on our marriage. I have read a number of books and websites looking for advice. I found this site about 3 weeks ago and it has really opened my eyes. At first, I couldn’t even fathom that she was possibly having an affair. But, I could put enough pieces of the puzzle together to make me suspicious after reading a lot of threads here on MB. I installed a keylogger on our home computer about a week ago and last night I got the surprise of my life when I found a secret email and lots of emails all to the same guy. I probably shouldn’t be surprised, but even with all of the clues, I guess I just didn’t want to believe that she was capable of this.

We live in a university town and my wife is a recruiter for the university. She also serves as the cheerleading coordinator. It doesn’t pay much, but she’s always loved being involved in cheerleading and the university athletic scene. Her main job keeps her out of town about 30% of the time and the cheerleading thing ties up most of her weekends from August until March after both football and basketball end. I’ve never liked having her gone so much, but I never said anything because I knew she loved what she was doing.

Now, I find hundreds of emails between her and the head male cheerleader since August. I stayed up all night last night reading every one of them. They started innocent enough, but some of the ones in the last month have become more and more provocative. Then there were several emails in the past 2 weeks where they were sending suggestive pictures of themselves to each other including nude pictures. I don’t know if this thing is physical yet, but I’m afraid that if it’s not it will be soon.

I don’t know what to do at this point. She is out of town on a recruiting trip and she’s meeting the squad tonight since tomorrow is an away game. I won’t see her again until late Saturday night. I don’t want to confront her over the phone, but I know that she will be with him tonight and tomorrow. Should I go ahead and confront her over the phone? It’s taking all the strength I have not to go over and beat the crap out this kid before he gets on the bus for this game. Only the thought of going to jail and hurting my kids is saving this kid at the moment.

MG,

I'm sorry you are in this situation. Welcome.

Your WW is most likely in a PA. If you confronted her she would probably say that they were "just friends". So before you talk to her at all you need to get some of this evidence printed and put in a safe place. You never know what will happen in the future and you may need to protect yourself and your kids. BTW how old are your kids?

When you get your ducks in a row, you will need to expose the A to people who have an influence in her life and you will have to expose to the cheerleading dept. She will have to leave that job and NC will have to be established if you are going to attempt R at all. She will not be happy when you do this. She will say all sorts of things, maybe even say that you two had aa chance, but now she doesn't see one. Expect it all. Expect anger. Your M can survive the anger, it can't survive an A that deos not end.

I would not give up my source yet either. Just tell her you know about the A(after you get your evidence safely stored).

Is the OM M? If so, his W will need to be told.

There are many different ways that this may turn once you confront her. She may move out. She may say it's over, but go further underground and learn to lie better. She may end it immediately and start R(most don't do this). If she is addicted to this OM then she will try to keep getting her fix.

She will rewrite your M history. She will try to justify her actions by blaming you. She will lie straight to your face.


Read up on Plan A. If you can read Surviving an Affair, His Needs Her Needs. Both can be purchased in book stores and on this website.

Most BH on this site will tell you to protect your finances and start documenting everything. I personally went to a lawyer before I confronted my WH.

This is a tough road. Take a deep breath. You'll get lots of help here. Some advice may work and some may not. But it;s best to follow what the good Dr Harley has outlined. That's the bottom line. Hang in there. You are not alone.

mgolfer1971,

I am so sorry. Bad things do happen to good people. Listen to the folks here and take heed of their advice. This place saved my sanity. Follow their plans.

You are at the very beginning of what is likely to be the roller coaster ride of your life. My situation was similar in that my WW took up with a man 7-8 years younger. Mine lasted a year and is only now slowing down.

I used to get frustrated when people told me to take care of myself, but it is true. Exercise, don't drink too much, try to sleep (I found dramamine helped) and keep posting to the experts here.

Having been there, I really feel for you, but you WILL make it.

Go to where she is at. Confront her with what you already know....she has sent nude photos and suggestive emails. That is enough evidence.

Expose the affair to other attendees at this function. Expose to your children, family, her family...with NO warning. In fact, if her parents would be horrified by this, have them come with you to her event.

Do NOT sit back and allow this to go any further. Tonight could be the night she gets pregnant or an STD. Fight this NOW.

I agree with what Michelle advised ... make copies ... put your PROOF in a safe place ... protect your finances ... get legal advice, etc.

However, I also advocate a MUCH MORE proactive posture. You simply can't allow this weekend to pass without confronting ... YOU WILL DRIVE YOURSELF CRAZY worrying about what they are doing.

After you have done the above, I would call my WW and say:

"I know of your activities with XXX, you have one opportunity to confess and come home or I will blow up your whole world. What's it going to be?"

Don't reveal your sources, just say "I KNOW and now YOU KNOW I KNOW".

If she won't agree to NC immediately, including stepping down as the cheerleading coordinator, then UNLEASH THE DOGS OF WAR ... expose to the University first, then to her family and ask for their support in saving your M (if that's what you want now that you know what she's capable of).

Your WW is humiliating you in the worst way, and you need to stand up to her with righteous indignation over her lack of respect for YOU.

Every so often in life we are TESTED ... today is that day for you. Will you stand tall and not be afraid? BE STRONG, CONFIDENT and PROACTIVE!!!

Ummm yep!

What he said!

And your wife will respect you all the more for it!

MG71:

Yep, you have plans this weekend.

Drop the kids at YOUR parents house if you have any, and travel to WHEREEVER the game is. You can stay with your W in her hotel room. And if she is sharing the room with another female coach, or team member, then you get the room and your W stays with you. You BY HER SIDE all weekend. It's time to reclaim your Wife.

ANd if she is doing the head male cheerleader, she is probably violating a number of rules at the college she works at.

She's probably going to be losing her job in the not to distant future.

Accept that outcome. Accept that it isn't your fault. Accept that SHE made these choices to destroy your family.

To properly recover your marriage, she's going to have to change what she is doing anyway. She can't be gone this much.

Strap into your seat, the roller coaster is about to take off like a shot.

LG

I do agree with the others that if it is possible, you should travel to where she is and confront in person and stay with her all weekend in order to protect your family.

However, if that is not possible (too far, not enough time to make the logistics work, no suitable care for kids (if any), etc.), then do it by phone, but however you do it ... DO IT TODAY!!!

Also, if you are not going to be able to go to your WW this weekend, then I also suggest confronting the OM prior to his departure. It shouldn't be too hard to put the "fear of God" into a KID enough to where it will keep him away from your WW for the weekend, without you having to risk going to jail. Just a little "MAN to kid talk" should do it ... let him know that due to your WW's position with the University and his position on the cheerleading team (possibly on scholarship), they both have a lot to lose if this doesn't stop RIGHT NOW!!! He should SEE just how SERIOUS you are, and understand what he is risking.

Good Luck and get to work.

I agree with MyRev and Medc. I would never be able to look at myself in the mirror again, if I knew my wife was meeting her OM for the weekend and I did nothing to stop it. The guilt you will feel for essentially enabling them to have sex will eat you up. At least, it would for me.

You definitely need to expose to your wife before this weekend happens. MyRev is absolutely right that you could confront the OM before he leaves and put the fear of god into him. I mean, he is a male cheerleader for crying out loud. Get in his face about this and he will cave faster than Rosie O'donnell at a chinese buffet.

If you can't drop in on your wife this weekend and confront there, make the phone call. But don't sit idly by and let it happen. I like the idea about making her choose on the spot whether she wants to come home, swear NC, and go to marriage counseling...or have her affair exposed to the school, the cheerleading team, her parents, etc...

Also, on a psychological note, do you think your wife is involved in school activities with college students because she has never really wanted to let go of that phase in her life? Do you think that is part of the draw for her in an affair with a college student? I think you can assume that the environment for her is not compatible with a healthy marriage.

Best of luck.

Both Medc and MyRev pretty much summed it up... I would also go to the head of the school that they help cheerlead at together and let them aware of the situation. Doesnt look good to students.

I would def address it to her the way MyRev put it. To the point but out there!!! And then expose like anything if she denies. Exposure needs to happien either way because it will help you with support, along with ending her fantasy.

LG could not have said it better. You MUST print off your evidence and make sure you have a copy in a safe place. Show up and suprise her wherever she is. She will probably be annoyed, but if you are in public say you are just there to support her. Once you get her alone behind closed doors, unload on her. Show her the evidence and tell her if she chooses to stay, you are done. Tell her "if the school finds out" you will be fired. DO NOT TELL her or promise her that you won't Tell the school.

Once she committs one way or another, tell everyone you know including the school (with evidence) and let them know you need help recovering your marriage. you will never forgive yourself if you do nothing and later find out that this weekend was their first time to have $ex. I would assume they are already there, but you still will be better off proceeding.

The advantage you have here is that you have definitive proof and she does not think you know a thing. It’s better to freak out now, expose to EVERYONE while it can still be viewed as the heat of the moment. If you play nice for a few weeks and then freak out it loses all its punch. Do it today.

Contact the school, the activity director, the athletic director, and her parents. After them contact OM and directly ask what his intentions are with your WW. Don’t ask if they are committing adultery, tell them you know they are,

I wish I had been given the opportunity you have today. Don’t let it pass.

I would trade my left kidney and left lung for the opportunity to have a 1% chance of stopping my WW from having $ex with another man!

You know, I have never really liked this question. Its not rhetorical enough. It seems to imply that there might be some answer this guy can give to save his own hide.

On another note. Can you anonymously circulate the nude picture he sent your wife around the school?

Man, so much to take in. To answer a couple of the questions, my kids are 7 and 5. The OM is not married. He is a 22 y/o college student. I think I’m getting sick just typing this. I can’t just pick up and leave to go to her. I can arrange a babysitter for the weekend, but I can’t get that arranged until later this afternoon. I will also need some time to get someone to cover me at work this weekend. I am the head pro at a local country club and we have a big member function this weekend that I have to get covered before I can leave. I’m afraid that if anything is going to happen that it will happen before I can get there. She’s 6 hours away. I’ll try to get myself together and go over and meet OM before he gets on the bus. If I confront him, do I need to go ahead and call my wife so that she hears it from me before he has a chance to call her?

I will go home and print off all of the emails at lunch and lock them up for safe keeping. I understand what everyone is saying about exposure. But I’m just not sure I’m ready for the firestorm that will follow. It sound so simply, but if I expose to the university, she will lose her job and probably be blackballed from ever working in her field again. How would she ever forgive me for that? Also, should I confront her first before I expose to anyone else?

Is it possible that I could expose maybe to just her family and see if that’s enough to knock some sense into her without destroying her entire life? Also, I can’t really see how to expose this to my kids. They wouldn’t understand anyway. As to quiting, would it be enough to demand that she just give up cheerleading since that is where she sees him. He will graduate in a couple of months and be gone completely.

Okay how about,

“OM I would like to ask you what your intentions are regarding my wife? But, before you answer let me offer a rhetorical thought. Think very carefully about how life would be for you as a lipless eunuch in a wheelchair.”

You need to expose and confront.

Expose everyone. The school admin.: athletic director, college pres., board of trustees, WW's parents, her siblings.

You must have your WW go NC with the OM.

WW or OM will have to leave the college.

MG71:

You asked this:

How could you EVER forgive her for what she's about to do?

She is screwing a student at her school. That's against the rules.
She is screwing another man inside your marriage. That's against the rules

When you BREAK the rules, you have to face the consequences.

If losing her precious job in this industry is the consequesnce, then so be it.

SHE made that choice.

Sorry, get someone to cover your golf tournament this weekend. There are other tournaments and other clubs.

Meet the OM at the school. Show him his picture on your cellphone. Tell him you pushing "send" to everyone on your email/cellphone list if he converses with your wife again.

Then hit "send" anyway.

And get someone to watch your children. Someone is throwing hand grenades into your house and your unwilling to step out of the house to confront your attacker. And your attacker is going to run as soon as YOU appear.

LG

I think you should start making your phone calls and get it lined up between work and child care. Your M is in trouble and before it gets worse I would do what I can to start mending it.


Its never to late to try and stop what might not have happiend already.


He probally will contact her and tell her that you have confronted him. I would prepare yourself for her to be very angry and upset because you are messing with her fantasy world. And thats a good thing. It depends if you want to talk to your wife about it now or not. If you tell her now it might give her a chance to contact OM and tell him what to say so there stories match so I wouldnt call her.

If you expose you need to expose all the way. Hey if she and this OM didnt even get to what they have done then her job would be safe. Its not your fault that she is trashing her life. Its not your fault if she looses her position. Sometimes things have to bite us back to get us to wake up.



You will be surprised what kids do know. They sense the stress from parents and they tend to act out on that stress or sense they are getting. I would think of how to put it but they need to knwo what is going on at home.


Thats if he doesnt convience her to run off with him if the A is still going on. I would have her quit her job and she seeks the same job elsewhere. If she comes clean she needs to do NC and give you access to everything she has passwords too along with acess to her cell.

Your wife is committing adultery. You are right, she is poised to destroy your family. She does not think you know. Why would she think that when you find out you will be mild, polite and meek? Just keep it your little dirty family secret?

Your marriage can survive her temporary anger. It can not survive ongoing adultery.

You have this one moment in time to blow this adultery up. Many that took this opportunity when given have ended the adultery that day.

Losing her job where she clearly has boundary issues anyway is not your fault. It is the consequences of her choices

mg71,

Thanks for the updated info ... it helps to form your plan. Look, this is the most important thing on your plate right now, but I also understand real world responsibility and logistics.

THEREFORE, CALL your WW NOW and ask her to make her choice:

"I know of your activities with XXX, you have one opportunity to confess and come home or I will blow up your whole world. What's it going to be?"

Her answer will determine you next move.

Regardless of her answer, be prepared to expose your YOUR parents, you will need their help with kids, etc. in the next few days. Also, plan to confront OM before he gets on the bus/plane to go to the game.

If she will agree to confess and come home, then you have a chance. One NON-NEGOTIABLE condition would be that she IMMEDIATELY resign as cheerleading coordinator (TODAY ... RIGHT NOW AND COME HOME) ... her answer to this and her overall remoursefullness will determine whether she will have to quit her job also, either voluntarily by her resigning or involuntarily by you exposing to the University and her being terminated.

I KNOW this is scary and there WILL be a FIRESTORM ... expect it and prepare for it ... YOU have done NOTHING wrong so don't apologize for being the head of your family and doing everything in your power to protect it. UNDERSTAND??? BE STRONG, CONFIDENT & CALM!!!

Do not yell, scream or threaten (either with your WW or OM), just calmly state your knowledge and terms ... BELIEVE ME, it will unnerve the he11 out of them. There is nothing as POWERFUL as a cool, calm and collected BH.

PLEASE learn from the experience here ... you are only going to get ONE shot at this ... follow the plan and you will likely be able to preserve your family and your self-respect.

Now, GO GET'EM!!!

MG

If you can go then I would. But my concern is that when you are there things could get out of hand. Are you capable of controlling any violent tendencies? I ask that because this situation is explosive. What if she chooses him on the spot?(WS can be completely stupid when given an ultimatum). Can you maintain?

In either case, make sure you have your evidence safe.

If I could have stopped the "first time" they got physical I would have. And I had a chance but didn't know it.

So if you go, you don't give ultimatums. You tell her that you know. You do this calmly, not half crazy. You tell her that she needs to end it immediately. You tell her that you want to work on your M(if you do). No threats. She'll just get her back up against the wall if you do. You are not trying to humiliate her now, you are trying to save the M and the family. Think about your goal and how to get there. Don't do things that you will regret later.

Do not cry or beg. She will see this as weak. You are putting your foot down and standing up to protect your family.

Having a talk with the OM is also a very explosive situation. Can you handle that? If you talk to him before he leaves then he will contact your WW before you get to her. She will then have time to think up something. You might want to figure out the timing on this better.

The only thing that I have to stress is to stay as calm as possible. Any public scenes will make you look like the insane H. That won't be good for you.

MG, please think this through. Right now your emotions are on defcon 5. There is a lot of work to be done and it takes years to get through it. Start the journey on the right foot. Know your limitations and protect yourself here. Don't make ANY rash decisions.

You're doing the "betrayed husband dance of denial".

You NEED to get to your wife ASAP. It is more important than your job. If your employer is worth working for, they will understand. You might as well tell your boss/supervisor what's going on now, because you're probably going to be missing significant amounts of work in the near future, regardless how this all turns out.

You need to expose her. Period. If she gets blackballed, so be it. That's what she gets for SLEEPING WITH A STUDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY.

Will OM really be "gone completely"? Just gone from the university isn't good enough.

What, he can't bang her if he's not enrolled?

You should go after "cheerboy", too. Let HIM know you know what's going on, and that you won't hesitate to let everyone around him know what's going on.



Are you really going to give OM the chance to sleep with your wife because of a function at a country club? Really?

Me, I would've tossed babies aside to stop my wife from sleeping with OM the first time. Really.

As far as confronting him or her first...you could go to his bus/plane and talk to him, and after the "conversation, while standing right in front of him call your wife. Tell her that you know and OM knows that you know. No threats. The A must end NOW. Do this calmly...it will be VERY unnerving to a college kid.

Wait for her response and that will dictate your next move.

Not bad, but it would be even more effective if he's standing right next to his wife when OM arrives.

Preferably, with a "glare of death" look on his face.

I agree with everything you've been told, pretty much:
1. Store the evidence in a safe place
2. Expose, to all interested parties at once, without warning!

One thing I wouldn't do:
She'll just get a secret email account and/or secret cellphone if you do this. Just tell her you know she's having an A with OM.

When you expose, the purpose is NOT revenge or punishment. It's NOT to get folks to take sides for you or your WW. It's to shine the light of day upon the A. Affairs thrive in secrecy. When everyone knows, the guilt and shame and accusatory looks make it not so attractive. When you expose, the message is short and simple: WW is having an A with OM. I want to repair our marriage and would appreciate any support that you could give WW, me, and our M.

When you tell your children, keep it age-appropriate.
Mommy has a boyfriend and married people aren't supposed to have boyfriends. This makes me very unhappy and angry and hurts my feelings. I still love Mommy and I am trying to work this out. Mommy and I both love you guys VERY much!

Exposure is a scary thing to do, and most BS hesitate to expose. I hesitated, and I wish now I hadn't. Exposure is the single most powerful tool in your arsenal for ending this A. Don't expose in dribs and drabs -- her family today, the university staff next week... and so on. It loses its power if you do that. Expose everywhere, all at once, without warning.

When you've done that, keep posting here because you are going to need a lot of help over the next few weeks and months.

Oh, and if/when you see your wife, do NOT raise your voice, cuss her out, or have any kind of angry outburst whatsoever. You can be angry. You can say you're angry. But no yelling, cussing, hitting things, throwing things. In fact, if you have time before you leave, read up on Love Busters and avoid them like the plague. It will be especially hard this weekend. If you don't have time to expose *and* study love busters, expose. Then study LBs.

Hopefully it will be a nonissue, because he's on his way to his wife's location right now.

Agree that your boss probably will find out anyway. You won't be able to hide the chaos that's about to come around.

You are going to need to expose. But don't tell her that you are going to do it. Don't show your hand. If she denies the A when you talk to her, then you start the exposure. Cheerleading will be the first to go. Obviously, being around young single guys is a weakness of hers and she will need to get away from that if you ever want to R.

Personally, I never told my kids about my FWH's A. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary to them so I didn't tell them. However, if she moves out they will have to be told. Also if things get drastically difficult at home if she stays they will have to be told something, something that is age appropriate.

No need to expose to kids, but definate need to expose to university. It is NOT YOUR FAULT that she chose to get involved with this guy. Would you want someone like this around your SON in college. Or worse flip the situation. Would you want your daughter around someone like this in college?

Your wife cannot be trusted around college men. Your wife cannot be trusted around other men. If you do not blow this up, your wife will steam roll you and probably continue the affiar. If you do blow it up, who knows? It will definately make it a he77 of a lot more difficult for it to continue. And she will realize that her actions have consequences...what it could cost her (i.e. not only her job, she deserves to lose that but her marriage and kids).

I have a college-age son. If I found out he was involved with a faculty member, I would be livid! How dare she intrude in his life! How dare she ALLOW this to happen! Even if my son is "of age", even at that age he's still not mature enough to fully understand the consequences or realize the impact that this will have on the rest of his life. What if she got pregnant, heaven forbid? If this was a male faculty member carrying on with a female student, I guarantee you, heads would roll.

Sheesh! This is a no-brainer. Your wife is wrong, wrong, wrong, and isn't fit to be on the faculty of a college where there are impressionable young men around.

Sorry if this is harsh... just the mother in me.

Expose this woman. Hopefully your wife will replace this vamp and be appalled at her behavior... as she should be.

I'll take a slightly contrary opinion here regarding exposure, but I don't think your first move should be to expose this to the cheerleading squad and the university.

I think you have an opportunity to reveal the severe consequences of your wife's adultery to her and
"bring her to Jesus" so to speak. I would call her and tell her that you know and that you have indisputable proof. Tell her you want to work on the marriage and fix all the things that were wrong with it so you can move forward into a happy future. Be absolutely clear though that it won't happen while she is having an affair with a college student and tell her you will do everything within your power to end the affair so your marriage can recover. She can make a choice to resign and come home or you will have no choice but to expose the affair to everyone in order to end it.

The purpose of exposure is to end the affair, not to punish the wayward spouse. There is no way that your wife can explain away the emails and naked pictures, so talking to her first won't be shooting yourself in the foot. Definitely expose to the OM today though. He is a college kid, just looking to get some strange. He will bail immediately. I guarantee it.

Ending the affair without placing your wife at ground zero of a nuclear blast could be a deciding factor later in whether you recover your marriage. As long as she UNDERSTANDS how close she was to losing everything, the fact that you saved her from that could really help her to see how good of a man you are.

I agree. His first move should be to get to his wife and act as a human shield between two crotches.

He could be merciful and give her the chance to leave the university completely, or be exposed to everyone and risk being blackballed. It's his prerogative.


A "severe consequence" would be losing her job at the university...packing her stuff up and leaving amidst the humiliating whispers of students and faculty about "the pervy woman who's a borderline kid-toucher".

A "severe consequence" would be getting blackballed from ever performing her job again because she isn't fit, and can't be trusted, to work with young adults whom she has authority over.


Great...so she can spend a weekend sleeping with OM like a monkey on ecstacy (which is probably all she wants, anyway), then come home and morph into a good little wife who, in a moment of weakness, "almost crossed a line but didn't, and BOY is she glad she came to her senses!"


You always expose the spouse first. Without warning. THEN expose OP then and there, before the two "love birds" have a chance to corroborate their stories.


Please. One of the few things that has kept me sane and out of prison through all of this is that I wrecked OM's life by speaking with his wife a few times.

I didn't care about her. I still don't. I called her ONLY to punish OM.

Any BS who says they got no pleasure out of exposing the OP is full of it.

Good stuff, Andrew & Krazy ... I REALLY hope that mg71 is way too busy right now inacting the plan to respond.

I absolutely HATE this place and why its here, but days like this provide some sense of satisfaction that maybe we can spare some poor guy this awful fate. I get the feeling that this guy has "what it takes" to pull this off ... no doubt he's confused and scared, but he seems willing to confront this head-on rather than shy away from his WW's fury of being discovered. I wish there were more BH's with the "stones" this guy seems to possess.

Hopefully, his WW will realize and own her screw-up and see that her H is willing to fight for their family in spite of how she has acted.

I agree 100%. I have always liked your rationality Krazy!

mgolfer,

First let me say, I am substantially older than you are. Second I still own stock in the stock market (that information may or may not be of use to you when evaluating what I am about to say ).

Having been here a long time, I have seen a great deal.

If I were running your life here is what I would have you do.

1. Calm down, a good stroke was never made in panic.

2. You are deeply hurt and will hurt some more, that is normal, accept that for right now.

3. You need to understand your marriage has a chance to survive but it also has a chance to fail. Much of this will be because of your actions and then her decisions. Accept that.

4. You need to realize you have little control over this situation OTHER than enforcing YOUR boundaries.

5. Tell your W you know and you expect HER home on the next plane, bus, or whatever.

6. You DON'T go to her, you stay home you take care of your children, and you do your job.

7. You call her parents, your parents, clergy and seek help, support and guidance in trying to save your marriage.

8. You save your evidence electronically and in print. You make copies and you store them in a safe place. You also secure your finances, close credit cards, move money (not all but enough).

9. You notify the university that you expect your W to be on the next plane HOME and not at the cheerleading event this weekend. You and your lawyer will be visiting them on Monday.

10. You let your children know there are some issues between you and Mom but you will take care of them.

11. You do all of the reading you can possibly do about all of this.

Notice I am telling you to expose. I am also telling you to bring her home and not go to her. Why? You are on HER turf if you go to where she is staying with the cheerleading squad. You may want to confront OM, but you run a few risks in doing this that even if they don't materialize won't gain you much. You want to be on YOUR HOME TURF, ON THE HIGH GROUND.

Young man, you are in a war, and what you are seeing now is only the opening battle of that war. The war will last for years IF the marriage is to be saved.

She is in what we call "the fog" around here. It is a delusional state that says to them, "my happiness is all that matters", and everything will work out fine. The kids won't be hurt, H won't be hurt, family won't be hurt, my career won't be hurt.

You would not argue with someone you KNOW to be delusional, don't argue with her. Simply tell her to be home NOW, you know of the affair and you are starting to take action. Don't tell her what action. Then call her parents and seek their help, call your parents and seek their help. Call clergy and seek help there. And yes call the school and tell them they may have huge legal issues IF she remains with the cheerleaders another moment.

Since you know your W is delusional, you would be wise to not pay alot of attention to what she is going to say right now, even if it is what you want to here. Liars LIE!!!!! she is a liar.

I hope this advice is of use to you. REmember this is going to take a lot of time even if she is on the very next plane and wants to reconcile. If she is not, it will take just as long.

As the folks here can tell you, this whole process takes time and patience.

God Bless,

JL

Here are my odds:

70% he calls his wife and WW and OM get a story about how nothing happened yet (even though what Krazy said happens). They take it underground and we end up helping him when he gets kicked in the gut down the road.

25% he follows the Nuclear Exposure plan and blows it up. She is pissed at him but eventually figures out what a bad person it takes to do what she did. she accepts responsibility and tries to work it out.

5% It doesn't matter what he does, they WW and OM run off together to live happily ever after in Cheer world!

Sweeeeeeet!!!


Can he still do the lipless eunuch thing?

Are his parents subsidizing the kid’s tuition and living expenses? If so, (and you confront) I’d persuasively encourage (threaten) him to ring them up in your presence. You might want to have a chat with them b/c if they're at all decent people they're going to be really pissed at him. You have a lot of ammo to use against this kid and can make his life a living hell for years to come. I have a feeling it will be easier to get rid of him compared to other entrenched types of OM situations. Figure out what tools are in your arsenal and choose well. If you're successful at eradicating this piece of juvenile vermin, you can then focus on the situation between you and your WW.

Everything you're being told is dead on. I disagree with showing your evidence from emails. Hold this till a later time because it could force her and this boy underground.

But being strong is the most important thing you've been told. I was weak and did none of the things I was advised to do and I paid very dearly for it.

So don't cry or beg.

"Be cool!" was the most important advice I ever got and it is very, very important.

You're fighting for your marriage. This is a fight. Don't fool yourself that playing Mr. Nice will get her to wake up and stop this stupid behavior.

Only being strong and a hard a$$ works. Trust me.

Weak men lose their wives. The strong ones have a higher success rate and if they lose their wives they come away in much better shape than the weak ones that just rolled over.

Don't let fear keep you hostage. Fear kept me hostage and it was what made me lose everything.

So don't be afraid. Strong men do well.

mg71,

GOOD NEWS ... the cavalry has arrived.

JustLearning is the VERY BEST this site has to offer. He has advised and saved many M's (MINE INCLUDED). He's basically saying what the rest of us have said, but he's given you a point by point approach ... PLEASE ... follow his lead.

The rest of us will remain around for encouragement and to fill in any gaps or answer questions, but when in doubt or if you receive conflicting advice ... go with the PROVEN winner ... follow the advice of JustLearning.

JL,

I know you're a humble guy and don't particularly like the adulation, but deal with it in this case. mg71 seems like he has the stuff necessary to follow the plan, and he needs to know who he's getting advice from.

Good to hear from you my friend, and thanks for stopping by.

I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or expounding on the idea by telling him what he could tell his wife. I think, in this instance, revealing the imminent consequences will be sufficient (rather than making her experience them) to end the affair. Unless she is that deluded to think that she has a future with a 22 year old male cheerleader. I am a fan of exposure, but in this case, I think she will ultimately respect his restraint in allowing her to leave the profession with her name intact. That is ONLY if she makes the right choice immediately.



You may have misunderstood me here. I am supporting the same choice that MyRev offered. Tell her she comes home now, or prepare for the consequences. If I gave my wife a choice between coming home and working on her marriage to having a weekend fling with a college cheerleader and she chose to stay. Good bye and good riddance. There would be no coming home and apologizing after that. She would be coming home and looking for new employment after being fired from her job.


We are in agreement there. I just meant after he had exposed to his wife, he didn't need to expose to the school just yet, but he definitely needs to expose to the OM.


I agree. It feels good to extract some measure of flesh from the OM, but objectively speaking, it is not necessarily the best thing to do for your marriage. If you have forced an end to the affair, exposing out of maliciousness will not likely win you any points with your wife, if that is your goal. If the affair has ended and you are working on getting her through withdrawal, I think it will go considerably faster if you behaving in a way that she will respect. Yes, its kind of twisted, but its realistic.

MyRev,

You are too kind. I think he should listen to all of the advice, but he needs to make a plan.

mgolfer,

Notice items 3 and 4 on my list. I think they were three and four. One says you have a lot of control of how this turns out, and the other says you have no control of her. They seem contradictory don't they?

The state of your marriage is something you had a role in. Your participation in this marriage positive or negative is something you had/have control of. Your W's decision to have an affair, is something you have NO RESPOSIBILITY FOR. I mean NONE.

YOu do have control of how you enforce your boundaries. YOu have control over you commitment to trying to save this marriage. You have control over your decision to remain in this marriage. These things will influence if your marriage survives.

Your W has control over having an affair or not. She has clearly no control over how she protects her boundaries, thus the marriage and the family. For the marriage to survive she must decide what her boundaries are and enforce them. She has control over her decision to stay or leave, just as you do. She has control over how much effort she will put in and whether or not she will pay the price.

This last statement sounds like revenge. It is not. You don't have to worry about revenge. Exposure will hurt her...and you. She will NOT be the cheerleader coach much longer no matter what she decides because the University via you and your lawyer (get a good lawyer NOW) will know about this. If she is basically a good woman, she will come to see how this hurt the children, you, and her family. You don't have to seek revenge. If you take her back and she does assist in rebuilding this marriage, her affair will haunt her for years.

So take revenge off of the table. It will cross your mind many times. You must understand this is a lot like playing poker or fishing. Part of how recovery will go, and what you should do in detail is dependent on your nature. The general plan (exposure, plan A, plan B, etc.) work no matter what. Will this plan save your marriage? I don't know. I do know it gives you the best chance.

I mentioned nature. Some folks play poker, and like to go all in whenever they can. Others like to check, and see what the other is doing, trying to lure them out. Some bluff, some wait on good hands. It is part personality.

Some of the folks you have heard from are more of the "all in" types, others a bit more cautious.

HOWEVER, NO ONE has ever won a poker hand folding, or never betting. Exposure is the opening bet, YOU MUST PLAY IT TO WIN.

The only issue is how big a bet do you make. Some are saying push "all in", personally I prefer a more modest wager, tell her parents, your parents and clergy, and with legal assistance tell the University, after you explain to the University needs her out of there NOW.

There are more you can expose to. Surely OM's family. Her friends, her work, and on it goes. My choice is leave those until you get her reaction. Remember exposure is to end the affair. If what you do today ends it, then exposure is over. If not, then there is more to do.

Just remember you want to have a plan at all times. You need to understand where she is coming from as best you can. Work the plan and the outline and details of the plan are here on this site. Use it, work it, and be prepared to have your flanks attacted.

I think it is obvious that alot of people are willing to try and assist you in offering their points of view, their experiences, and their wisdom. Seek it, listen to it all, and then take it and fit it into your plan. If something doesn't fit, don't worry not everything we are going to tell you will be dead on, but you will be absolutely amazed how much the folks here get right.

Why are we soooooo good? It is because it seems as if the Wayward spouse, WS, read from the same script and the opening salvo in this attact on your marriage is very often the ever poplular "I love you but I am not in love with you." I do believe you have already heard that one. You will here more.

If you want to have some fun (in a very sad way) ask the folks here about what they heard from their spouses. There are whole threads on this utterences and they are remarkable for their similarity. The reason the Harley approach works is because while all people differ in many ways, their behavior during and after an affair is remarkably common.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Slight T/J:

Hi JL!!

mg71,

FYI--I am the FWW of MyRevelation. You may not want to hear from a FWW, and if after you read my post you prefer that I don't post any more, I will respect your wishes. However, I am going to try to give you a little perspective.

First of all, the advice you have received from my DH, JL, etal., is SPOT ON. You need to stop this sh&t immediately, and you've got to be strong, confident, and assured with the fact that you are TOTALLY IN THE RIGHT here. You need to stand up NOW and don't pussyfoot around and please, NO HAND WRINGING!!

On our D-Day, MyRev immediately made me choose, and it shocked the he77 out of me. I had convinced myself that he didn't really care about me, but boy, was I wrong! That act of confronting me and standing tall, confident and firm really helped me see what kind of a man that he is/was, and what I would be giving up if I hadn't come to my senses. It really shocked me back into reality rather quickly.

My point is this--show your wife that you are strong, confident, and assertive--DO NOT beg, whine, or grovel. Weak men ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE. If you confront her on this quickly (and I'm genuinely hoping that you are on your way to doing something right this minute), you have a good chance of giving her a reality jolt, and most importantly, a good chance of saving your marriage, if that is your wish. I am so thankful and grateful that MR stood up to me immediately. I made the biggest mistake of my life, and I am so very lucky that he stuck with me, when he had the choice not to. I truly cannot imagine my life without him. I'm hoping for you and your family's sake that your WW will feel that way someday too.

Good luck, and in the words of my husband,

GO GET "EM!!

PS--if you pay any attention to ONE PERSON on this site, please listen to JustLearning. He has helped me and MR so much, that it is unbelievable.

Mg,
I hope everything went as well as it could have yesterday. My thoughts are with you in such an awful situation.

Andrew

Us too, Andrew.

Fogfree and I have been wondering and thinking of mg71. I may be wrong because we don't have much of a profile on him yet, but he just came across as a good guy in a terrible situation and it appeared that he was going to proactively address it. I can only assume that's why we haven't heard from him ... more than likely he's a-hole deep in alligators about now, and we all know how bad that sucks and are feeling for him right now.

Good Luck to you, mg71.

my thoughts have been with this man all day yesterday and last night. I was hoping for an update but UNDERSTAND (if he did what he wanted to do yesterday) that he is in a true hell right now. Just thinking about those times in my life.....makes me want to throw up knowing how torn apart they are right now. I hope that he will let us know how things are going.

I thought I would give an update and see if anyone can tell me where to go from here. First, thanks for all of the replies on Friday. I was ready to just give up but after reading everyone’s post I decided to at least try to salvage my marriage.

I arranged for one of my assistants to cover my weekend responsibilities at work and went home at lunch on Friday. I printed off all of the emails and pictures and hid them in a secure place. I also copied all of them onto my laptop. At that point, it was too late to confront OM because he was already in route to the game. But I did find his parents names and contact info on my wife’s emergency contact list and I sent an email telling them that their son was having an inappropriate relationship with my wife and asking for their help to stop it. I also sent them copies of several of the most incriminating emails and told them that my kids deserved better than this.

I then sent my wife an email with several of the pictures attached and told her that I knew what was going on. I told her that I had a file prepared that included all of her emails with OM and all of the pictures and that I was on my way to deliver them to the athletic director and the university president if she didn’t contact me immediately. I then sent her a text and told her that I was sending her an urgent email and to please read it immediately.

I was amazed at how calm I was able to stay. She called me within minutes yelling about me invading her privacy, that I had no right to spy on her, that they were just friends and I just misunderstood. I let her rant on for a few minutes and then calmly told her that she can deny and shift blame all she wants to but that didn’t change the facts. I then told her that she had exactly 7 hours to be sitting in our house or I would email the file to the university officials. She tried to say that it was impossible to get home that fast, but I just told her that it was a 6 hour drive and that I was giving her an hour to rent a car and get underway.

After I hung up with her, I sent the file to the athletic director and university president anyway. I really struggled with this, but I really couldn’t see her ever recovering while still working in that environment. I keep trying to convince myself that it was the right thing to do, but I still feel like I may have done it more for revenge than just because it was the right thing to do.

She did make it home in about 7 hours, but she has spent most of the weekend in the basement pouting. She’s still trying to convince me that they were just friends that got a “little” carried away, but that nothing ever happened between them. I’m just getting ready for the backlash after she gets to work today and finds out that I sent the file to her bosses. She is completely not interested in talking about any of this. She told me I was overreacting when I told her she needed to give up her cheerleading position. Can someone please explain how I’m the bad guy in this situation?

I’m really having mixed emotions about all of this now. My first instinct was to fight for her and break up this affair. But, I’m starting to question whether I can ever get past this. Just the sound of her voice at this point makes me ill. If it wasn’t for my kids I think I may have just kicked her out this weekend.

You are in a hard place now. Take peace in that you have done the right thing.

WW's always get angry and lash out when exposed. Expect it and ignore it. Do not engage her in kind.

Give her 1 chance to PROVE her claims. She has admitted to being inappropriate....SHE has caused this...even if she hasn't had sex with him (trust me, she has!).

Schedule a polygraph exam for her. That will prove her lies.

Quite honestly, she should NOT be going to work today. Most likely she will, and should, lose her job.

YOU are NOT the bad guy here. YOU are the one fighting for your wife and kids. NEVER forget that.

Do not believe anything your wife is telling you. She is a liar that should NOT be trusted. No matter her OPINION about you "overreacting"...you are doing the right thing.


Not talking allows her to keep her lies hidden....or so she thinks.

BTW, your wife has ZERO rights to secrecy. That is what she is mad about. She wanted you to not interfere in her little dirty secret.

Keep shining the light of exposure on this affair.

Polygraph is your best bet right now...otherwise you will deal with months or years of lies.

What was the response of your in-laws. Realize they will likely side with her and think you are overreacting. Don't fall for it.

MG71:

You will hear all about how it is "your fault"

She made the choice to get inappropriate with someone she shouldn't have. That was HER choice.

Excellent job this weekend. All the way around.

You drove a serious stake into the "just friends" thing.

Your WW may react two ways:

1. Realize that she HAD gone "too far" and thank you for bringing her back from the edge. It might not happen right away, but it might happen soon. This indicates that she wasn't TOO FAR gone.

2. She will be HORRIBLE to you about ruining "EVERYTHING" SHe was ready to "END IT" and "FIX IT" but now you have "GONE TO FAR" and "HOW CAN SHE EVER TRUST YOU!" (Yeah, that's a good one...) And then she will try to salvage an save the remments of this A and go down a path of destruction of herself and her family.

I hope she does #1. That does give you best chance of recovering quickly.

You might have to listen to some "Fog-speak" for the next couple of days. As others have mentioned, you need to grin and bear it. Be calm. Tell her that you here to FIX this. You will do whatever it takes to FIX THIS. Don't raise your voice. But do listen. Let her talk. She needs someone to talk to. And if that person is YOU, that's all for the better. She may say some things that really p!ss you off, but remember, she is in the fog, and will regret later many of the things she is saying now if she returns and the fog burns off.

Once again, excellent job this weekend.

I think you have an excellent chance to recover this.

LG

mg71,

I KNOW you feel like crap this morning and are questioning everything that has happened and that you have done ... this is NORMAL, or at least as normal as this whole nightmare gets. We've all experienced it, and it SUCKS, but YOU HAVE TAKEN THE ACTIONS to make it better in the future.

Fogfree is as quality of a lady as you will ever meet, but she made one HUGE mistake and it completely changed her personality for several weeks. I still hear a specific phrase she said during this period in my head WAY TOO OFTEN. She is now completely amazed, ashamed and embarrassed at the words that came out of her mouth during this "crazy" period. Some here call it "fog", but in my mind its closer to a form of "insanity" albeit temporary, in the cases that recover.

If it is any consolation, the words that your WW has said so far, are basically the EXACT same words that I heard at first.

PREPARE yourself mentally for the words that will come out of your WW's mouth later today. She WILL be completely irrational. Recognize that they will be coming and "detach" yourself from them as much as possible ... and believe me, IT WILL NOT BE EASY, because they will be so personal.

NOW ...

Take a deep breath and let yourself absorb what has happened, and take a little time to prop up your own self-respect.

YOU have acted in a very RESPECTABLE manner, and you should be PROUD of how you have handled the worst situation you will EVER face. You have stood tall, and set reasonable boundaries for your WW, and you have been willing to enforce those boundaries. You have exposed to those who have the MOST influence in stopping this A, and you have not backed down in the face of your WW's wrath.

FWIW, since we're all just anonymous internet posters brought together through a common bond, but you have earned my RESPECT as a fellow BH, and I'd say that I speak for the majority of the BH's out there who have read of your story and actions.

REMEMBER, you have done NOTHING wrong, you have taken the high road, and are proceeding from the position of "RIGHT".

Good Luck to you on a day that will get worse before things can get better.

MG

You did the right thing. If there is a chance of R you kept it alive by exposing this A.

She will be livid when she finds out that you sent the emails. Expect it. Do not apologize for doing it. You did it to stop their A. Exposure is/was your best weapon.

She will blame YOU for everything. Expect that too. Do not listen to her words, they will be venom. She is like a drug addict and you are interfering with her getting her fix. Approach it that way. She's going to rewrite your M history. She will say she never loved you or you shouldn't have gotten M, blah, blah, blah. These are all lies that she will spew. It helps her justify her actions. DO NOT LISTEN. Stay calm. Tell her that you are trying to protect your family. End of story. I repeat...Do NOT apologize for exposing or for finding those emails. There are NO secrets in a M.


For the next few days she will be like a crazy person. Go about your business. Don't talk R with her. You won't get anywhere. Take one day at a time. Continue to keep an eye on things. With her attitude you can expect her to try to continue to contact OM. She needs her fix. Watch her actions. She's going to lie to you, so her words mean nothing right now.

Right now the biggest thing is to get NC established. She obviously doesn't want to stop contact. It's a hurdle that has to be crossed before any R can begin. So your focus should be on:

Protecting your kids.
Protecting your assets.
Ignoring her angry outbursts.
Fighting this battle calmly and strategically.
Establishing NC.

Here's a helpful list about Plan A.

___________________________________________________________

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

I know you are in a terrible place today but you did the right thing. You were a Man with a capital M. You protected your children and you claimed your wife as your own.

Now just brace yourself for the firestorm about her job. When she lays into you just smirk at her and tell her to explain to her boss that 'nothing happened' just like she told you!

Do something nice for yourself today. Take the kids for ice cream.

IMO she likely spent most of that time trying to figure out a way to "spin" her bad behaviour to all the persons that now know about it.

You did well. The only thing I might have done differently is to indicate the existence of the inappropriate images and e-mails without actually providing them, and if called upon to show the evidence, I would show them in person, rather than providing them by e-mail. I don't how inappropriate those images are, but they have ways of being forward and forwarded and eventually ending up in the public domain.



That's easy - your WW needs to blame someone for her behaviour, for her choices.

Regarding the topic of whether you should save your M or not ... keep in mind that this will always be YOUR choice and option.

WW's are a completely different animal, but much easier to predict whether they are worth fighting for or not.

You have done GREAT ... give your plan a day or two to see how your WW reacts. LG's possible scenario's of her reactions are spot on ... you will know soon enough whether you are dealing with a WW with the "right stuff" to recover or whether Plan D is indeed your best option.

My best GUESS is that your WW was in this "fling" for the excitement and spice. I can't see many rational women in her position feeling that they would have a long term romantic future with a KID. So I see a situation that is optomistic for her to recommit to the M, "IF" you had a good, stable, loving M pre-A. The next few days will likely answer those questions.

Stay STRONG ... Stay CALM ... and Stay FOCUSED.

MG71,
Very well done. You have been forced into a terrible situation and you responded by showing you have a great deal of character and strength.

Please take to heart the words you have read in the previous few posts and prepare yourself mentally to weather the storm that is about to hit. Your wife is going to be livid to find out that you sent the details to the Athletics Director and almost certainly ended her career. But you had the right idea when you said "I don't see recovery as possible if she works in that environment." She is going to accuse you of everything from being a terrible husband to assassinating JFK, but just keep repeating to her that you would not be able to recover your marriage if she continued employment in that capacity. If your marriage cannot be recovered, her career possibilities are not your problem anyways.

Your instincts have served you right thus far, so stick to them and you will either come out of this with a remorseful wife and a recovering marriage, or the pride that goes along with doing the right thing in the face of oppressive hardship. And as Mr. Wondering excellently stated, you are demonstrating to your 9 year old son just how a man should react in those conditions.

Be proud.

I'm very proud of you.

You did what I didn't have the strength to do.

You did the right thing.

Remember this:

SHE created this problem. SHE went above and beyond what was right.

SHE is the one who engaged in innappropriate behavior.

But she's is going to try very hard to blame you.

She is going to try to say this is your fault.

SHE was the one who stepped out of line with a child and abused her position.

Now, you're being forewarned and she had a very predictable response. She said that you violated her privacy.

Respond with this:

I didn't violate your privacy. I violated your secrecy. There's a difference. Privacy is closing the door when you use the restroom. Secrecy is engaging in activity which will hurt your marriage and keeping any such activities quiet from your spouse, who you know won't approve of such activities.

Secrecy is damaging to a marriage and there should be no secrets in a marriage. The presence of such secrets shows that you are engaging in things which you would be outraged to learn about if the situation was reversed.

Say that and watch the "deer in the headlights" look.

Watch at that point as she attempts to shift the blame or change the subject.

You did not violate her privacy. You invaded her secrecy.

Big difference.

There should be no secrets in a marriage and you should both be an open book to each other.

I hope I’m doing the right thing. I just went to the bank and had her name removed from my account. We both have separate accounts and we also have 1 joint account that we each fund to pay the household bills based a percentage of our salaries. We can each sign on the other’s personal account, but I had her removed as an authorized signatory this morning. It may be unnecessary, but I expect a firestorm when reality starts to rain down on her.

I also got a return email this morning from OM’s father. He thanked me for letting them in on what was going on. He also warned me that he had contacted the athletic director’s office and informed them of what’s going on and demanding action from them. He apologized if this caused me any problems but said that he didn’t feel like he had any other choice. He also said that he had a long conversation with his son and made it clear to him that this relationship was totally unacceptable. I understand where he’s coming from. I would be furious if that were my son and someone in authority over him put him in that position. But it still make’s me angry that she’s put me, her, and our family in this position.

I’ve made arrangements for the kids to stay with my parents for the next few days so that they are insulated from the fallout. I’ve been trying to prepare myself for the fallout, but it still makes me physically ill every time I think out about any of this. My first instinct is still to just file for D and make her pay for what she’s done, but I feel like I at least owe it to my kids to try. If it doesn’t work out, I can at least tell them that I did everything in my power to keep our family together.

You did GREAT!!

The *only* thing I would have done differently is "I told her that I had a file prepared that included all of her emails with OM and all of the pictures" -- I would not have revealed my sources. I'd have said I was going to expose the A to the athletic director and university president. She will almost certainly get a secret email account now, so put a keylogger on the computer and expect it.

My first instinct was to fight for her and break up this affair. But, I’m starting to question whether I can ever get past this.
Your feelings will be all over the map for quite a while. The general rule of thumb bandied about here is "Don't make any serious decisions for at least six months" and that is, IMO, a very good suggestion. You can ALWAYS divorce later. Do your best and ride out this storm. See what emerges on the other side of six months. You have nothing to lose, really, and you stand to gain a strong marriage with decent boundaries.

Your W will tell you she came home ready to give up OM and work on the M but now that you told the authorities, it's all over, there's no hope, and -- my personal favorite -- she can never trust you again. When she lambastes you and throws blame at you, tell her "I'll do whatever it takes to save my marriage" and then change the subject. She's looking for a fight so she can blame you for everything that is wrong in her life right now. Don't fall for her bait.

Your wife will be withdrawn and depressed for a while - a couple of weeks or so. Don't expect much from her at all during this time. This is a good time to read up on Plan A. Learn about Emotional Needs (ENs) and Love Busters (LBs). Meet her top 3 ENs and eliminate all LBs from your repertoire.

You did GREAT.
The exposure was wonderful, and to all the key people.
Making her come home instead of going to her was excellent.

I think your chances for a recovered marriage are quite good. It won't happen overnight, but in your case I do think it will happen if you want it to.

Most BS lose weight after discovery. It's called the A diet or the BS diet around here. You can't make yourself not be sick, but do try to get some healthy calories in your body, drink fluids, exercise, and get rest. Just do the best you can.

Because you have children, I encourage you to try, for at least six months. I think you'll be surprised how hateful your wife can be, and later you'll be thankful at how wonderful your marriage can become, provided you and your W both decide to invest in it.

Give it time. Take care of yourself.

Yep, the feces is about to impact the rotary oscillator.

Don’t get drawn into her wrath. Stay cool and collected.

You have done all the right things so far to give your marriage any shot at surviving.

Stay gunfighter cool.

The consequences she is about to encounter were from her choices not yours.

Good Job. As of right now and due to YOUR ACTIONS this A is effectively DEAD. OM is no doubt terrified after his Dad had a talk with him and then "good ole Dad" dropped the nuke on the Athletic Department himself.

Now, if your WW wants to blast you for going to the University officials, you can truthfully say that is a moot point, as OM's Dad exposed her to AD anyway, regardless of your actions. Just stay calm and tell her ... "Your actions caused this, not mine".

The only real marital questions remaining are whether your WW will become a remourseful, repentent, and fully engaged "Former" Wayward Wife (FWW) AND whether you are interested in recovering your M, even is she is???

Have you had any communication from WW today after she went in to work?

Your wife has to know she was nothing but a M.I.L.F to this 22 year old. You can bet he shared her pictures with his friends.She will say no he would not do that!!! But we have all been 22 yr old males and he would want to show proof to his friends. She's going to be mad as a hornet's nest for awhile but she knows you mean business. She can try a lessen this and state you overreacted. But the I Love You but am Not In Love With You(ILYBNILWY)statement, coupled with a probably severely reduced sex-life (I am assuming), plus the emails and pictures etc. All equals an affair not matter the type.

She also know you will go completely nuclear if she decides to leave you.....sending to family and friends etc!!

One more thing that I didn't see mentioned that is an all too common mistake and always backfires:

DO NOT tell your wife about this site!!!

It is YOUR support system and needs to remain under radar.

Once your wife has truly agreed to Marital Recovery and all its conditions, then you consider bringing her here.

You are doing all the right things. Remember, it was HER choice not yours to let things get out of hand. You are fighting to save your marriage. She has no right to be mad at you for the consequences of HER ACTIONS. Good Job, keep talking to us and keep your head up. We can walk with you and will be thinking and praying for you and your son and your marriage.

Perfect. I know this is probably embarrassing for you, it would be for me, but you know what? YOU didn't cause any of this. This is part of the fall out from HER choices. You are trying to save your marriage and the things you are doing are HONORABLE.

You're doing great and so far everything is right on track... even her sulking. Be prepared for the firestorm... but I'm not too worried about you. Seems like you've got a good handle on things.

Good job!

I’m sorry you’re here my friend, but I’ve been where you’re sitting and I thought I would give you a little warning about what to expect. I too exposed my WW to her employer and she was promptly fired along with her OM boss. So, here’s the progression of what you’re likely to hear:

I thought we could work this out, but now that you’ve ruined my career you’ve blown any chance of that.

A week or 2 later you may hear, “I understand why you’re upset, but you really went too far when you got me fired. I just don’t know if I can ever forgive you for that.”

A little later you may hear, “I’m sorry that I hurt you. I just wish you could have worked things out with me one-to-one instead of involving my company.”

Finally, if you’re lucky you’ll hear, “I was totally wrong for what I did and I really love you for standing up for our marriage.”

There’s no guarantee that it’ll work out like that, but you have a greater chance of success in recovering your marriage since you acted swiftly and decisively. You’ll know in a few weeks if things have a chance. If you don’t see any change in her during that time, she is likely too lost in her fog or still in her affair and just hiding it better.

I’m a firm believer that as the BS we have a right to set high expectations for our WS’s when it comes to recovery. I just don’t see the point of doing all of this work and enduring all of this pain if the marriage that I end up with isn’t better than the marriage I started with before the affair. I really believe that one of the key ingredients to successfully recovering a marriage is to reach a point where you would rather divorce than settle for anything less than the best. No Compromise.

Good luck and you’ll be in my thoughts and prayers.

Well, I’ve had an interesting day and I’m getting ready for a difficult night. My wife’s athletic director called to ask some questions about the files I sent him on Friday. He didn’t tell me exactly what was going to happen but he did warn me that he had talked with the university president and that they were planning on taking “drastic” action to remedy this situation quickly. I assume that means that they will fire her. I am trying to get myself ready mentally to deal with her tonight.

This is my day off, so I spent it moving all of her belongings to the quest room in the basement. I don’t know what I’m going to do long term, but I just need a little space from her right now. The kids are spending the week at my parent’s house to insulate them from whatever happens. I’m so nervous right now that I can’t sit still. The waiting is killing me.

Also, someone mentioned requiring her to take a polygraph as a condition of recovery. If I decide to ask her for that, should I ask her first or should I just set up the appointment and tell her to be there? I have so many questions that I need answers to, but I don’t trust a word from her mouth at this point. I am thinking that a polygraph may put my mind at ease that I am at least getting the truth.

I also called my in-laws and told them about everything. My mother-in-law was in tears and my father-in-law was very angry. He wanted to call her right then and “set her straight”, but I convinced him to hold off. I told them that for the time being I was going to try to recover our marriage and that the best thing they could do was to support that effort and encourage WW to be honest and commit to recovery.

Wish me luck tonight!

I really, really love it when a cheater gets what they deserve.

Well, part of what they deserve, anyway.

While I can certainly understand your feelings, I personally think moving her things to the guest room is a mistake. you are in Plan A and that means trying to fill ENs. It's going to be hard to fill her ENs of SF and affection if you're sleeping in different rooms. Even conversation is better in the early drowsy morning before the day starts rushing in.

Another thing, is that you want her to be open and honest with you. Right now she is probably terrified (and furious). If you want her to be open and honest, she HAS to feel safe with you. This means no LBs, of course, but I ask you ... how safe do you think she'll feel when she comes home and finds she's been removed to the guest room?

I've never been involved in a polygraph, but from what I've read here from those who have, you let her know that you're making an appt for a polygraph. If she protests and balks and refuses, you know she's not being honest. If she agrees to take it w/o any fuss, keep the appointment. She may break down at the very last minute with some confessions that you'd not thought to ask about in the test.

I think you are doing an excellent job and things are moving right on schedule.

That's great news about the school, maybe not for your WW, but for your marriage.

Good thinking on what to tell the inlaws. Sounds like you've got a lot of support.

As far as the polygraph, I'd go ahead and schedule and THEN tell her to be there. Chances are it won't be necessary and she'll start "singing like a canary" as MIM (I think) likes to say. Maybe others have better ideas.

You're hitting her with everything at once and I think that's going to work in your favor although it probably won't seem like it at first. Above all.... stay cool, calm and collected. No. Matter. What.

I don't think he should be in Plan A.

Filling her ENs of SF and affection? Yeah, after he confirms that she doesn't have herpes or something.


Not very...hopefully she'll feel like a spouse who just got busted for screwing a kid. She should feel lucky to be in the house at all.

to you. You are in a very tough spot, but rest assured that many of us here have been in the same situation, just not all those things in such a short amount of time.

Your WW's head is probably spinning right now, and when she loses her job over this she is probably going to have a really hard time processing all of this at once. It's a tsunami.

I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but you did do the right thing because I'm sure you probably killed the A. Your M had no chance as long as both of them were working together. The A would only have gotten out of hand.

We're here to support you.....

Why not?

This is a good start with your in-laws however don't count on it to last. They will likely prove to be her most sympathetic ears. She will definitely spin tales for them and they will really want to believe her. I hope they hang tough with you but be prepared for their support to diminish over time.

MG,

I think when you tell her that you want her to take a polygraph she'll say no way. No WS wants to be honest at first. Some don't even come clean after months of questioning. This is normal. Don't expect her to say sure honey, let's go. She is still under the impression that there can be secrets in a M. So you can tell her that she can prove to you without a shadow of a doubt that what she did was not wrong...you'll get your answer from her response. The sooner in R that the facts are revealed the better. So telling her up front that you will need her to take a poly is a good idea. You can wait a couple of days though. She is going to be beyond logic the next week or so.

You've done a great job! You have blown this A sky high. Stay calm. I think what you did with the bank account was great. This shows her you mean business and of course, it protects you. At this point you don't trust her. And you shouldn't.

Get your heavy weather gear out...the storm is coming. GOOD LUCK!

It's just my opinion, but I disagree with the idea of plan A in general.

I see it as kissing [censored] to try and "win back" a WS.

I think that every WS, upon discovery of the affair, should be told to "end it right now, or get the ____ out and don't ever come back".

If he wants to recover his marriage, which his latest post states he's considering, then "yes" he should be in Plan A.

However, I would NEVER recommend a BS have SF with an active WS for obvious reasons, life threatening STDs. So that particular EN should not be met in Plan A.

And even once in recovery, every BS should take extraordinary precautions (testing, etc.) before ever having SF with their F-WS.

Are you getting this, MG1971?

Jo

I agree with most of your post but sincerely question the utility of Plan A for a WW. In most cases I have seen here, a WW is MORE likely to respond to having to make a choice. Wh's are a different story...but WW's should be told to make their choice and get out if they continue seeing the OM.

mgolfer,

If you even think you might want to save the marriage, then plan A is for you. However, that doesn't mean you don't set your boundaries with regard to expected behavior. It does mean you show her that there is a way back, and that you are willing to meet her efforts with yours. Yours will initially be stronger only because she may be confused. That should not last long given this situation.

You have done a good job of exposure and I am sure she is steaming right now. You will need to allow the steam to cool down, and remember you have children to focus on right now. I think you have been given some good advice.

As far as your next move, I will use a quote from John Madden the football announcer " You should never roll out the hose until you know where the fire is."

As you see her reactions and behavior, your path will become more clear. Don't engage in arguements, or disputes. Just be calm and watch. You will learn alot and the next moves will become more obvious. Plan A allows you to do this, while planting some seeds for the future.

Be cool, be firm, and don't apology for attempting to protect your marriage from attack. It is under attack that much is sure.

God Bless,

JL

Well, last night went pretty much the way you guys predicted. I got a phone call at around 5:30. When I answered all she said was “ fxxx you, you axxhxxx. I hope you’re happy now that you’ve ruined my life!” She then hung up before I could say anything. I could hear noise in the background that sounded like she was in a bar. I called her dad and told him what was going on and asked him if he would mind checking a couple of places to see if he could find her. I didn’t want her to get into trouble, but I knew that if I showed up it would probably just escalate the situation. I gave him the names of a couple of the places she liked to go to when she went out w/ the girls and he found her pretty quickly. He was able to talk her into leaving with him, and he drove her home since she was way too drunk to drive.

She came in yelling at her dad because he brought her home instead of taking her to her parent’s house. He just told her that this was where she belonged and left her on the sofa. I spent the next hour listening to her call me every name in the book. Apparently everything bad that ever happened to her was my fault. I also heard “I don’t love you, I never did love you, You can’t make me love you, I hate you, and I can’t even stand to look at you right now.” I just nodded and told her “okay.” I think it made her even madder that I refused to argue with her.

Finally, she declared that she was going to bed and for me to “stay the hxxx away from me tonight.” I smiled and told her no problem that I had moved her stuff to the guest room earlier and would she like for me to help her down the stairs. She launched into another profanity laden tirade and told me that she didn’t need my help for anything. So, I let her stumble her way down the stairs on her own. She slipped a few times and will probably wake up with some pretty good bruises this morning. I’ll probably get blamed for that too.

I feel surprisingly good this morning. I had a good workout at the gym and I even wanted to eat this morning. I stopped at a local coffee shop on the way home from the gym and picked up a bag of muffins. I ate a few and left the others on a plate outside the guest room. I also made a pot of her favorite specialty coffee and set the timer to start brewing about an hour after I left for work. I left her a note that said “ I love you and hope you have a good day.” I finally feel like I’m back in control of my life. Thinking about it all day yesterday, I realized that while I’m unbelievably angry with her that I also still love her. I would be lying if I said that I didn’t take a little bit of pleasure(well actually a lot of pleasure) in seeing her get her just reward yesterday. But, in the end, whether we stay together or divorce, I want her to recover so that she can at least be a good mother to our children.

I’m going home at lunch to check on her and make sure she’s okay and that she hasn’t done anything stupid. I’ll be surprised if she’s not back in the bed. She doesn’t handle alcohol very well and she was wasted when she got in last night. She’ll probably still be sick and hung all day.

I’m getting to the point where I need some answers from her. I’m having dreams about her and rah rah boy and I need to get to the bottom of what actually happened. Should I start to ask her questions now or should I wait a few days for the dust to settle? I’m not sure I’ll be able to sleep soundly until I know all of the details and then I don’t know if I will be able to stay with her when I know all of the dirty details.

He just told her that this was where she belonged and left her on the sofa.
Absolutely stellar. Send the man a box of his favorite golf balls or cigars or whatever it is that fathers in law like

You did a FANTASTIC job not rising to her baiting. She wants to vilify you right now, to convince herself that you are an evil monster and it's no wonder she sought solace with rah rah boy (LOVE that moniker, BTW). You'll have more opportunities to practice your self control, but I'd say that after about 48 hours the worst will be behind you.

Good to hear you felt like eating. I know the fear of her wrath was huge before you exposed but I also can tell that taking action has done wonders for you already.

Regarding the details, that's not something you're going to get all at once. She may not feel like talking about it at all for a couple of days, and then when she does talk to you about it, you'll get lies, half truths, and evasive answers. It will take some time for her to cease wanting to protect the affair and shift to valuing openness and honesty in the marriage.

I’m not sure I’ll be able to sleep soundly until I know all of the details and then I don’t know if I will be able to stay with her when I know all of the dirty details.

Frequently the BS fixates on wanting to know all the details, to the point that the WS feels hounded and gets no rest. This is no good for anyone, as it makes the marriage a hostile place to be. You may find that you truly need to know the details, some do. You may also find that you really only want to know the whys and generalities, so that you can use that info to fix what was broken in your marriage. Give this a bit of time.

Something that may help (it helped me immensely) is to write down your questions and then let them lie for 2 or 3 days. Then see if they're really important. If they are, ask her. You'll be surprised how many of them become irrelevant in just a few days.

Mg71:

You got what you expected. Nice play with your FIL. His statement to her "This is where you belong" speaks volumes. Your very lucky to have him solidly in your corner.

You have destroyed the fantasy. Therefore all the anger and bad words. You did well by not engaging her.

You have stated that you want ALL the details. That's a tough one. You have to be able to listen for it as well. If she starts to "fog-babble" you, like she did last night, you smile and nod. If she starts to tell you the truth, you respond to that. By encouraging her to continue with the truth. Fog-babble gets blank stares and no response, but truth gets understanding and concern.

It will be very difficult for your WW spouse to admit to all the things that she has done. TO look back at the last six months to a year and realize what a mess she has made. Of course she will try to make it YOUR FAULT. But you give her the blank stare. ANd then she starts to talk about what she did do, and you support her in that. The truth will hurt you. But you NEED the truth to keep your imgination from filling in all the blanks. Remember that, your imagination an be ALOT worse than the reality. ANd you will KNOW when you are getting the truth, and not lies.

I have proposed in the past what I call the question method. Where you write down all the questions that you want answered. You can put them in some sembelance of order, meaning a linear type of format, from the start of the A to Dday, or in groups like "meeting times" and "meeting places" and "What did you Share", etc. ANd she answers those questions. Meaning, you MIGHT get it all at once. But it generally comes out over time. If you DO get it all at once, then that is really great. But, if shes willing to tell you the truth, it's tough to face the reality when it is exposed to the light and then you have to keep going thru it again and again. That's the scary part. So, having the list of questions, allows her to understand that there is a finite number of questions (Followups are allowed, and things that you hadn't considered when making your questions up, especially after she told you something and you need more info). This method means that one night a week, for 90 minutes to 2 hours, you two talk about THIS. The REST of the week you do UA time. And get back together as H & W.

Its a tough place to be. But you have done GREAT since last week. There are some timelines around here. GIve your WW some time (a week?) and if NC is maintained, then the anger part will start to fade. THen withdrawal will start. Both of these processes are well detailed around here. AS it starts to unfold, and we find out HOW your WW is reacting, we can send you to various threads with similar WW and BH like you. You can get a better sense of what you are up against reading those timelines.

LG

PS, as a club pro, maybe you could help me with my 21 handicap...LOL

Mg71,
I'd like to applaud you for your conduct since last Friday. You could be a textbook case study in the RIGHT way to handle your wife's affair. Your behavior last night was masterful, from not getting baited into her arguments to leaving muffins and fresh coffee for her.

One comment I have regarding details is that you actually have an avenue to gain those details without driving another wedge between you and your wife. She will need to confess everything to you in good time (after the initial withdrawal is over most likely), but in the meantime, it seems like the OM's father could be an ally.

Could you contact him again and ask him to help you sort out the lies and then you will be out of their lives forever? Assure him that you have no interest in his son and that he is perfectly safe from you. I seriously doubt that the son has the cajones to stonewall his father and you may be able to get the full truth through the father before having any conversations with your wife. The father may not want to get involved any further, but it could be worth a shot and could give you some peace of mind in the short term.

Best of luck to you. Keep following your gut in the weeks to come. It has served you well so far.

Edit: Lousygolfer, I'm with you. I'll shoot an 88 one day, and 105 the next day, and I can't identify what I might be doing differently. Lately, all my drives have been slicing, but my iron shots off the tee are great. I need some lessons!

You have time. Don't push too hard right now. Don't have any relationship talks for a few days.

You have done great, but it's still going to be a pretty tough few days at home.

Stay cool and calm. You already see how badly that frustrates them. She wants a fight, don't give her one.

Get the book Surviving an Affair as soon as you can now and strongly consider a call to the Harleys.

Recovery is the hardest step in this whole nasty game you have been force to play. The Harleys can really help you now.

Great Job.

mg71,

I'll echo what others have said. You have done a tremendous job so far.

When I would begin to ask questions of my W, I would quickly become obsessed. One question would turn into 30 more, and we'd both be in tears or exremely hostile by the time it was over.

I would make the following suggestions, based on my own negative experiences:

1. Only ask what you absolutely must know for now. The really basic stuff. The circumstances of my d-day didn't allow for many cool, calculated actions, but I wish I could've stopped the flood of questions that day.

2. Create a list of questions. Let her respond in writing if she chooses, with the understanding that you might ask some follow-up questions if any of her answers requires clarification.

3. Take care of your Father-In-Law at Christmas. He sounds like a valuable asset, and a good man.

mg71, I'm impressed. to you and FIL.

MG71,

I agree with everyone and commend you on your demeanor.

TEXTBOOK ACTIONS AND RE-ACTIONS.

Stay strong.

kirk

That's very important, brother. This is textbook behavior and as predictable as telling you that we will have to pay taxes in the future.

Expect nothing but pure venom and I'm not sure if you've been told this or not but go get Surviving an Affair by SH. And don't be ashamed to read it in front of her.

My ex would get mad if she found me reading any books that dealt with infidelity.

She didn't have an affair, in her mind, or was really ok in doing what she did since "the marriage was over in her mind" (to paraphrase.

Expect similar justifications or justifications along the lines of:

You neglected me and Rha Rha Boy said all kinds of things that I wanted to hear and I was vulnerable to hearing them and it was like water to a thirsty person so I fell for what he was saying.

So again, it will be indirectly your fault since she wouldn't have cheated if you had simply been saying the right things all along.

Don't buy it. My ex was a royal pain and super high maintenance but it didn't make me want to go and screw around on her.

The cheating is ALL hers and unjustified in every way.

Thanks to everyone for all of the encouragement. It has helped at points when I feel all alone to log on and read some of the other posts and read some of your responses to my post and realize that I’m not the first one to go through this and I’m certainly not the only one. It’s helped me to feel confident in the actions I’ve taken to know that there are so many of you advising me that have taken these same actions yourself and that they have been successful many times before.

Quick update! I went home to check on her at lunch and she was back in bed. She had eaten 1 muffin and drank a cup of coffee at some point, but she was sound asleep at noon. I couldn’t find any evidence that she had left the basement this morning. She’s either really hung over or really depressed or maybe both. It’s been so great to be back at work today that I almost dread going home and facing reality. Who knows what frame of mind she’ll be in by tonight.

On another front, I talked briefly to rah rah boy’s father on the way back to work. I called to thank him for what he had done to end all of this and to tell him how sorry I was that he had to be involved. He filled me in on a few details so at least I’ll know if I’m getting the truth from WW. He was on campus yesterday talking to the administration and sitting down with his son. According to him it has been physical for about a month. There was no emotional connection on his son’s part. It was just a chance to have a good time with an attractive older woman. His greatest fear was that his father would tell his fiancé who has already graduated about this little affair. I actually had to stop the car and throw up when we hung up.

The father assured me that his son would stay away from my wife. Rah rah boy is taking next semester off before starting medical school next fall. The father told him that he wouldn’t pay for medical school if he heard that there was still contact with my wife. He’s also moving back home in about 5 weeks after December graduation. As hard as all of that was to hear, at least I know some of the truth. I really dread having to look at her tonight. Maybe I’ll just ask her to give me some space and stay in the basement until I go to bed. I need one night off at this point.

Oh, expect some other gems like:

"It just happened".

Or

"I didn't plan on this happening."

Or

"It's your fault I cheated."

Or really painful stuff such as:

"You just weren't doing it for me in the bedroom"

or

"I want us to be friends" (no such thing, especially when there's cheating).

Or she'll profess her love for her very young "soul mate".

If she does, then I would certainly confront OM (Other Boy seems more appropriate) because he's likely going to scurry away to protect his school status.

AWESOME response by you FIL. I would have given anything for that kind of support and applaud him for doing the tough thing.

But be careful. The support will only last for so long. They will slowly turn on you over time because she is their DD afterall. So she could be horrible with no morals but will eventually start supporting her and start saying things like, "It's time for you to move on" or even start saying that you shouldn't be punishing her as you are.

They will rarely ever say to DD, "you brought this on yourself for cheating on your H".

Treasure the support you have and re-enforce to the ILs that you love their daughter and that you will really need for them to support you in order to save the marriage. That's a relationship you need to nurture with care.

Don't expect it to last, but treasure it while it does.

This is fantastic!

Although I hope that father informs the fiance.

He was engaged?!?! Why am I surprised? I feel bad for his fiance, she deserves to know what she's getting into when she marries this yahoo. I know I would want to know. It's not a good sign that he'd do this while he's engaged... in fact, it's a very good predictor of what's to come in his marriage.

Expect your wife to be very depressed for awhile. She will probably feel like a fool when she comes out of her fog and realizes what she's done to her life and her marriage.

You're doing great and you're in the right place to help you get through this, however it turns out.

That's always tough to hear. Sorry, but at least you know. It will be helpful info to see just how long your WW will lie and deny the PA. I'm not sure I'd clue her in on that tidbit just yet.


I hope this man has the decency to tell his son's fiance.

That matches the timeline in the escalation of the emails. Sad, but no surprise here.

She will deny this even after you reveal where you heard it.

Now the bad news; you will both need to get tested for STD’s over the next several months.

Adultery is a gift that keeps on giving.

mgolfer,

AS everyone has said, you right on the glide path for your approach to the landing strip. I'll repeat what everyone else has told you, there really honest to God is a script that all WS's seem to read from. I don't know the publishing house, or what book store carries it, but somehow the darned thing just seems to be handed around.

You have done great. Your FIL is a gem, and OM's father seems to be upright as well. You are more fortunate than you know in this regard.

As for everything else listen to the folks have been saying. But, do get Surviving an Affair, as it will guide you through a lot of the coming steps.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

I'm very sorry it went physical MG.

I puked for days and lost 22 lbs in a few weeks (and I'm thin). My family and friends thought I had cancer.

Take care of yourself. Eat, sleep (Tylenol PM works) and stay as active as you can.

Schedule doctors appointments for both of you. Make sure you don't get anymore 'gifts'.

My condolences.

At least you know the truth.

You should consider giving your wife a chance to confess to what you already know. Ask her to elaborate on her relationship with Rah-Rah Boy.

It could really help you in the long run if she does.

I know if I hadn't caught my wife in the act, she never would've confessed. That's a problem for me to this day.



P.S.: I don't think I could resist calling him "Rah Rah Boy" to her face, every time you refer to him.

Thats some bittersweet news. I know that, as a guy, it would be much easier to work on recovery if it hadn't turned physical, but at least you can cut through all the BS that your wife will try and tell you. Be thankful that you got the truth early. My stbxWW persisted in lying to me for 15 months after the affair. The day she finally admitted that she slept with OM #1 coincides with roughly when her affair with OM #2 started. If she had just come clean at the start, its possible that she could have been able to commit to the recovery and learned what she needed to learn to make the marriage work. As it was, her lies forced her to keep a distance between us that eventually resulted in the second affair.

Honesty is the fundamental building block for any recovery.

On a side note, if I was in your position and you were able to identify the OM's fiance, I would go ahead and tell her. No one should be forced to enter into a marriage based on a lie.

MG1971,

As most have recommended, get the book Surviving an Affair.

You can also coach with the Harleys. They're barr none THE best and have spent 30+ years in this field. They will work with you to put together a solid plan to follow thru recovery.

Here's their contact info:

Coaching Center - Click Here

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639

God Bless,
Jo

You're going to have a hard time with the physical act of betrayal than over anything else.

There will be a deep sense of violation of the "sacred ground" which has been desecrated. This sacred ground was exclusive to you as a husband just as your body was exclusive to her.

But that has now been violated and you will have a very difficult time with the images in your head. I had a very, very hard time not knowing the details. I wanted to know where, how, when, who did what, how long it lasted, and finally why.

Details are a curse and a blessing. You want to know because you want to know the truth but the details sometimes become triggers.

I found out a certain movie was playing while they were going at it. Seeing that movie on a shelf at a store or seeing a preview on TV became a trigger for me for a while (not anymore) but it was there for a good while.

I'm only sharing this with you so you know what happened.

And the sad thing is that I didn't get any of the details from her. They came from the OM who had the decency (he had been deceived by her) to tell me what happened and when and how.

So you may never know. And you're certainly not going to know while she's wayward.

But you're overwhelmed right now. Expect massive mood swings from feeling good to feeling dispair.

She has raped you emotionally. There's an aftermath.

Take care of yourself, bud. Virtual hugs from all of us. We've felt your pain. (I wish this thing didn't have a smiley face)

Okay, I’m trying to work up the nerve to go home. After finding out that this thing had been physical, I really don’t know if I’m ready to face her. I have this tremendous urge to just embellish what I know a little and rub her face in it. I want to ask her if it was physical and if she lies start telling her that I know she’s lying because her little boyfriend gave me dates and places all the details of their little affair. I don’t have all of that info, but I would love to scare the crap out of her.

I know, I need to just calm down but I’m really struggling this afternoon. I must be going through one of those vengeance phases where I want her to hurt as much as I do. I want her to understand the kind of pain she has caused. I was doing alright until this info about it being a physical affair and that has just set me off. I’ve been pounding balls off of the driving range for the past 30 minutes trying to calm down. I imagined teeing up rah rah boy’s balls on the tee and crushing them with a driver over and over.

I think I’ll go by the gym on the way home and see if I can just push myself to exhaustion and see if that takes the edge off. I really can’t go home until I’m sure I can handle it. I don’t want to do r say anything that I’ll regret later.

Sorry, but I just needed to vent and this is the only place I knew to come and vent.

Give her the chance to confess. Really.

Don't break the law.

I agree with Krazy, but DON'T give up any of your sources, you may need to use them again to verify future info that may come to light.

I would give her a chance to come clean, but when she starts lying, (and she WILL), just say:

"Look, since I found out about this Friday, I have not been living in a vacuum. I have been deligently gleening information for all available sources. I KNOW you're lying, and YOU KNOW you're lying. You only get one real chance to come clean and mitigate the damage to our M that you've caused. Do you want to start over NOW???"

mg71,
First off, I wish I had that avenue of stress relief! I would love to just be able to go drive golf balls at work!

If you want to get some revenge on rah rah boy's balls, I seriously recommend you see what you can do to notify his fiance of his actions. She deserves to know what this boy has been doing to protect her future and her health, and I'm sure it will feel damned good to know he got his [censored] dumped.

I wouldn't go home and rub your wife's face in it yet. I would give her the opportunity to confess on her own to see how honest she is willing to be with you. Careful of her motives though. She may only confess just to try and hurt you. Its a giant [censored] sandwich, but your best bet is to continue plan A. If you can't be nice-ish to her, just don't be petty. Maintain some distance and do your own thing if you are about to explode.

It's an hour by hour thing right now regarding the emotions. Try to vent here and not at home.

The early posts to you on this thread talked about the roller coaster. You're there. We all have been there.

I used to take my .45 to an indoor range near my office and shoot the crotch out of 3-4 silhouette targets while having happy thoughts of OM.

Stopping at the gym sounds like a good healthy plan.

I'm sorry to hear it was physical, and I know how badly your world has been up-ended. Still, the truth is your ally and you really are fortunate that rah-rah boy's father is such a stand up guy.

I agree rah rah boy's fiance should be told. She needs to know BEFORE she orders invitations, tries on dresses, and decides on flowers and a cake. She needs to know NOW so she can get tested for STDs.

I also agree you should give your WW a chance to confess - but don't expect it to come immediately. And do NOT reveal your sources. MyRev's advice was great - "I've not been living in a vacuum... something about gleaning information from all available sources" and then just leave it at that. She may not confess, and she may confess hatefully, to hurt you. But I guarantee she'll torture herself wondering what you DO know and how you know it.

Don't be hateful to her tonight. If you can't be civil and avoid rubbing her face in it, then be honest with her. Tell her you are way too upset to talk to her right now, and that you need some space. Go in your room and close the door if you have to, or take a walk, or go for a drive.

Remember, if you lose your temper with her, it only justifies (in her mind) how evil you are and how right she was to seek "love" somewhere else. It's VERY okay to be angry. It's NOT okay to lose your temper.

I'm not going to do anything illegal. Although that doesn't mean that I don't want to. I'm just not going home until I'm back in full control of my emotions.

I'm sure there won't be much plan A going on tonight, but I'll try to keep my distance and avoid interacting w/ her until I can be at least civil. It would probably be best for me to wait a day or two before I ask her about her affair to give myself a chance to deal with her calmly.

Thanks fro letting me vent.

We have all been there. Working out should help take the edge off. When you do confront her, remember to try to remain calm. Giver her a chance to admit it. When she blames you, calmly remind her that you were not the one sleeping with a student. You did not get fired for misconduct. You did nothing wrong. Do not let her drag you into an argument.

mgolfer,

The reason you need to tell his fiance is that she needs to be tested for STD's, IF they were sexually active. No one knows who has really slept with who, other than OM and your W.

If you don't feel up to it, perhaps OM's father will do it. She needs to be told, although right now, your main issue is hanging on to the roller coaster ride.

I like your approach of imitimating that you know more than perhaps you know, and put her on notice that honesty is a must, although at this point she may not care what you think, I mean after all THIS ALL YOUR FAULT. ... NOT .

Hang in, be calm, and see where the fire is before you roll out the hose.

God Bless,

JL

MG,

""I must be going through one of those vengeance phases where I want her to hurt as much as I do.""

As far as stages, my friend, I'm afraid you have not even reached that part of it.

You are still in traumatic shock from the gaping, steaming chest wound caused by your heart being ripped from your chest through your sternum. It is going to take some days to entirely get your brain wrapped around this. Exercising to exhaustion is a good way to cope.

Keeping your cool like you did before will come to you. Watching her go berserk will bring on that calm and collected veneer again.

""I want her to understand the kind of pain she has caused.""

Unfortunately this is almost NEVER the case. So please do not wait for it to dawn on her.

This whole adultery thing is about a wayward's selfish yearning for self-gratification through their self-centered feeling of entitlement.

A self-centered being has no empathy for another, specially if that other's pain is being caused by the WW.

So you will soon hear "get over it" and "can't we just move on?"

You are just now entering your assigned car on our roller coaster, so make sure your strapped in tight.

Take care of yourself, eat right, plenty of sleep, etc. Sounds like you have the exercise down already.

Stay strong.

kirk

Good idea.

A suggestion: before you enter into any sort of "discussion" about the situation with your A, I suggest trying to understand what she might be going through now: having possibly given up her career and her M and having her world turned upside down for a brief dalliance with someone who only saw her as a life-support system for a vagina. My FWW went through a similar experience, and I know it affected her self-respect greatly. At this point, she needs to blame *someone* for her choices, and that's likely going to be you.

I have spent my adult life conveying thoughts in writing. My job is to describe. That is one of the best, most concise descriptions I have ever seen of how predatory men view their female conquests.

I second that opinion, as a matter of fact that is one of the realizations that made me do a number of 180's in my marriage some months ago when I first started reading here.

NJ

Tense evening around the house last night. I stopped at the gym on the way home to lifted weights and do some swimming. I swam for almost 45 minutes. For some reason, I find swimming to be very calming. It’s so quiet and makes me feel like I’m in another world.

After that, I stopped by my favorite deli on the way home and picked up a couple of sandwiches. She was actually out of the basement when I got there. I took my sandwich and a magazine to my den and told her there was a sandwich in the kitchen for her if she wanted it. She came in about an hour later and asked if I was going to ignore her all night. I just told her that I wasn’t ignoring her, but that I was really angry right now and that it was just best that we keep a little space because I didn’t want to say anything that I would regret later. She said okay and went back to watching TV.

After she went to bed, I checked the computer to see if she was dumb enough to try to contact him again. Apparently she is that dumb. Here’s the contents:

WW: Hey, why haven’t you been answering your phone? I really need to talk to you. Hope you didn’t get in any trouble for this but we really need to talk.

Rah Rah Boy: Listen, we can’t talk any more. My dad was really PO’ed. He’s threatening to not pay for medical school and to tell Meredith about all of this if I see you again. It was fun while it lasted, but it’s got to stop. Please don’t call or email me again.


Apparently he’s smarter than she is at this point

I thought about it last night and here’s my plan. I’m to just try to be pleasant wit her today and avoid any affair talk. I am off tomorrow, so I thought that maybe that would be a good time to have a talk w/ her. I need some help from you guys about what is most helpful to cover in this first talk. I have hundreds of questions, but I don’t want to overwhelm her at this point. I know we need to discuss NC with OM. Is it to early to demand that she get into counseling? Is it okay to ask specific questions about the affair or will I just get lies at this point?

I really want to set reasonable expectations because there’s only so much frustration I can deal with at this point without losing my cool w/ her.

I may have missed this but has she even admitted to the affair yet? If not, she's no where ready to hear about recovery. I think what needs to be discussed today is whether she's ready to admit the truth. I think some of the guys have given you things to say, her one chance to come clean, etc. But until she admits anything, I don't think there's really anything to discuss about recovery or counseling. She's still trying to contact her OM. She doesn't KNOW that you KNOW about the PA, her continued contacts, etc. She thinks you just suspect, right?

Mg71,

OM's fiance needs to be told.

She should not have to enter into a marriage under false pretenses.

You just might spare another person the grief you are going through right now.

Not to mention the ba$[censored] deserves it.

#1- Do not let her know about you seeing her computer activity. If you don't have a keylogger installed, get it done today. eBlaster by SpectorPro is the best. You can download it instantly for $100

#2- If you plan on letting her out of the house, get a GPS into her car. Google LandAirSea Systems. They have a unit for around $300 that works with Google Earth and will show you exactly where she goes.

That's my advice. I'll leave the rest to others.

golfer,

These are good developments. It isn't surprising that she tried to contact him.

Your mission now is to get your wife back and this is a really, really tough thing.

She'll be very venemous towards you, but it actually sounded like she was starving for some sort of emotional reaction from you.

I think she knows deep inside that she's messed up badly, but she really has no clue as to the magnitude of the pain she's inflicted on you. She'd rather not think about it.

My exww was caught of guard by the devestating reaction to telling me she wanted a divorce. I was inconsolable the first night and couldn't do anything other than cry. This was before I knew of the infidelity.

You're in emotional shock and will swing wildly in your emotions.

The best advice I got during that time dealt with just being cool. My brother actually had the best advice. He said, "Just be cool. Don't let her see emotions from you. Be ice cold and unreadable."

This is such good advice. It's good advice because it encourages you, the BH, to keep those raging emotions in check and hopefully think clearly.

I didn't follow the advice given, but you've conducted yourself in a very good and thoughtful way so far and are doing great.

So what to do with the conversation?

I'd put it all in her court.

Sit down with her and simply say, "Ok. I'd like to hear your side of things. Please tell me what happened."

You know a lot already. So if she starts trying to feed you lies, then stop her.

She may get very defensive about it and may lash out at you and claim that you're blowing things way out of proportion. The louder the bark, the worse the truth is.

I confronted my exww about her online account and received heaping spoonfulls of "it's an innocent site" and "I'm just there to make friends" and "it's just harmless jokes (flirting)".

I wasn't dumb. I broke into the account and got the truth. She knew she couldn't lie to me anymore when I calmly approached her and started throwing out names of the men she had been with.

That's when she fessed up, but she only partially fessed. She refused to provide details about what happened.

You're in a very good situation because you know a lot more than she realizes you know.

Using Rah-Rah Boy's real name, the name of his fiance, and some snippets of their email exchanges will reveal that you know a lot more than she is leading on and may encourage her to spill the beans.

I have a gut feeling that your wife will likely be a repentant WW who will feel bad for what she's done. She likely got caught up by the attention given to her by a younger man and she fell for it and followed the slippery slope of an affair while her "boring, dependable husband" just didn't compare to the young athletic child she was doing.

Well, boring dependable husband is not bad. It's something to be proud of.

But the fact that she cheated with a kid that unrealistically can't have a relationship with her and has much to lose with exposure helps you a ton.

I would still find Rah-Rah Boy's fiance's number and give her the evidence you have. She deserves this before she marries him. I have a very good friend of mine who was cheated on while she was engaged and the man cheated on her again after he married her. She deserves to know and protect herself from future pain. And you would also add another painful consequence to OB (other boy) for his actions.

So the advice for your talk is to "be cool" when confronting her. Stop her if she starts lying and show your cards a little. DO NOT reveal how you have your sources of information.

And in the end tell her you want to forgive her and save your marriage regardless of what she spews forth.

Of course, that's up to you.

If she starts ranting, be calm. Stop her and simply say, "look, you're really in no position here to be yelling and screaming at me. You messed up. I didn't. You're now facing the consequences of being a staff member who has slept with a student and got caught. Don't berate me over your own actions."

Say it calmly when she rants.

If she has any sense at all she should stop, but will likely choose to spew justifications and venom. If she does, then stay calm and simply end the conversation and say, "Clearly, you're not willing to talk like rational adults. I'm walking away now and am willing to talk to you when you're willing to take ownership over what you've done and we can discuss where to go from there."

You strike me as being a strong BH, which is very good. Don't get weepy and whiny and grovel. It will maker her lose respect for you.

Hope you got some decent sleep mg71. Don't let your wife know you are checking her phone and/or computer. Print the emails if you can and put them somewhere safe. You'll be amazed at all the lies you are about to endure as your WW denies contact, the physical elements of the A, and anything from A to Z. The emails will serve as proof later on.


Me...I'd ask her very calmly if shaking her poms poms at Rah Rah Boy was worth her career, family and self respect. She'll likely come back with it wasn't like that, we're just friends, you're crazy garbage. Don't agrue with her. At that point I'd ask her when she's scheduling her STD tests. Again she'll probably freak out and tell you you've got it all wrong, blah, blah. Stay calm and let her rant. After she's done hanging herself on the rope you given her calmly tell her that there's really not much to say at this point since she continues to lie to you and then walk away. Her mind will be racing as to WTF you know and what RAH RAH has said. If you feel like you are going to explode go take a walk and come back after you feel a little more together.

mg71,

At this point, you just need to "take your WW's temperature" ... meaning ... is she ready to admit to the A and recommit to you and her family. I gave you a sample yesterday of how I would ask her the initial question.

In reality, all future advice, and the likelihood of whether your M will survive, will be predicated on how she responds to these two questions:

What was the extent of your A with Rah Rah Boy?

Are you prepared to cease all contact with him FOR LIFE and recommit to our M?

There will be other follow up questions, but these are the starting point, and the two most important. If she starts to lie or gaslight you, revert to the response I posted yesterday.

mg71,

If you can find "Meredith" do the girl the biggest favor of her life and tell her what has happened.

Beware of having her see just any individual counselor/IC. They may hurt more than help your recovery. I suggest MB counseling and, if possible, try to schedule the next MB weekend. You will get the home study course with the weekend. It can take a year to work through together. That can be difficult but with that comes growth.

Golfer,

POM said, "The louder the bark, the worse the truth is."

Yep. My WW at our first "chat" when she finally agreed to face me in person after I told her I knew screamed at me that she "was not admitting anything!!! This is all your fault!!!""

She then picked up the beer I was drinking and smashed it on the patio floor scattering glass everywhere and stormed off to leave until I rationally told her if she walked out the door we were done forever.

When POM says be ice cold, he is right. You need to have your loose script down ahead of time as to what little snippets you will let out when she starts to lie. And she will lie. COunt on it. It took me 4 days of 2 hour talks until she finally admitted it, and even then it was still a lie, at least the extent of the PA. They are very clever and manipulative these WW's. I had to come up with a very elaborate story to trick my WW into thinking I knew everything and would leak a little here and there to get her back on track.

It was only when 2 weeks after she admitted it and said it was over that I found 2 opened and empty condom packets put back in the box in my house and confronted her again that she was still sleeping with OM that she admitted a lot more. She tried to pin that on DD. She is still lying though to this day.

mg71,

Just an afterthought and to expand on what you already been told ... this is very important ... BE THE ICE MAN, when you are around your WW. We all know you will have moments when you are starting to feel out of control. When those occur, just excuse yourself and go to the bathroom until you can compose yourself for Round 2.

You have several advantages at this point ... remaining calm and cool, again think "ICE MAN" ... will preserve those advantages.

- You have much more knowledge about the A than your WW realizes. Use this to your advantage by dropping names, and rough time lines to keep your WW off guard BUT DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SOURCES OR SHOW YOUR WW PROOF. If she questions how you know, just say that "I KNOW, and you were there ... so there is nothing that needs to be proven"

- Due to the knowledge you have gained here, you will know her likely responses in advance and will be prepared with answers that will keep her off guard and guessing.

- Given your FIL's reaction, I'm going to assume that your WW came from a good family, and as such, her guilt and embarrassment should be really working on her. If I am correct in this assumption, then this will be your greatest weapon to break through any remaining fog.

- Rah Rah Boy just admitted in the email that it was "all just fun while it lasted" and to not contact him again, so she is also feeling like a piece of meat about now, in addition to the guilt and public embarrassment.

Stay cool and strong and you will likely get to the bottom of this MUCH faster than most.

You are doing a GREAT JOB, continue to post here frequently and trust your instincts ... they have served you well up to this point.

Great advice!


More great advice. Remember to BE THE ICEMAN!

James Bond is a better model.

Very cool under pressure and stress. Model him in your actions and behavior.

Don't become Tony Soprano.

MG,

Perhaps I can set what everyone is telling you in terms that you are more comfortable with. You are playing in the biggest tournament of your life (Think Masters), you have a one stroke lead and you are entering Amen Corner.

You are excited, fearful, pumped, and determined. What should your swing look and feel like? Smooth, relaxed, and steady. What should your mind be doing? Thinking of the wind, the break on the green's, where the traps are, the hazards, and then...it should be blank with simply the target in your minds eye.

That is where you need to go for the next week or so. You need to handle the pressure and execute your plan. STep 1 is to let HER talk, and talk, and talk. You prompt this with hints about what you know, and where you want to go (recovered marriage), and then you let her talk some more.

It is hard to do, if you are not cool, but here like golf doesn't mean you aren't in turmoil, it means you are in a gathering information mode, you are LISTENING and WATCHING.

Mgolfer, have you ever played with a deaf person or tried to teach them golf? I ask because most folks would never understand how much sound plays a role in the game of golf. Like golf you need to listen and watch and say much less than you want to.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

This looks like a romantic affair for her. She is also fishing for information about what MG may or may not know.



This had to be a real blow to her. He tells her she really meant nothing to him and invokes the name of his true love fiancé to boot.


She will not accept this. She will be trying to make contact with him today.

He reveals his greatest fear. She may even threaten to expose to Meredith herself in order to talk to him.

I think more than anything she wants to know how all of this was discovered and is contacting him to see if he knows. She also wants to know from him how much he has disclosed so she can sync her story with that.

She'll definitely be trying to reach him today. Be warned!

Another thing, she will be looking for how you found out by searching stuff at home. She'll start checking YOUR email and computer IP (intellectual property) on your home PC, HandHelds and your work laptop (if you have one).

Lock all your electronic stuff down, change passwords and purge cookies/history files AND do not use the home PC if you can help it.

You absolutely don't want her finding MB and reading these posts. They will be used against you. Trust me on this. WS's do start to snoop on YOU once exposed.

Jo

Thanks again to all of you. It is very calming to have a place to vent, ask questions, and get inside info on what to expect. I went home again at lunch like I normally do, and she is still in the same clothes that she’s been in since Monday night. I suggested that a long shower may make her feel better to which she responded “why? I don’t have anywhere to go.” I think she’s in some kind of depression.

By the way, I looked back at last years cheerleading roster in her files last night and found a Meredith that graduated this past May. I called the cell phone number on the list this morning and it turned out to be the right one. I told her as much as I could without giving away my source. She was of course very upset, but thanked me for letting her know. After thinking about what you guys were posting, I decided that I couldn’t live with myself if I let her marry him without knowing what he had been up too. I would want the same consideration if I was in her shoes.

I’ve decided to go ahead and talk to her tonight. Since I’m off tomorrow, this will give me some extra time over a day and a half in case it takes multiple talks to get the truth from her. I think I’ll take the advice from here and simply ask her to tell me her side of the story and let her know before she starts that I’ve been digging and know way more than I’ve told her at this point. If she still tries to lie, I’ll remind her that I know the truth and I know she’s lying. I’m thinking of giving her a couple of chances and if she lies the third time, I’ll just stop her and tell her that we’ll try again later after she decides to be honest. If she gets angry and starts shifting blame at any point, I’ll just walk away and tell her that I won’t accept the blame for her bad choices and when she’s able to be honest and talk with me calmly that we can continue.

My FIL also called me on my cell last night to check up on her. I thanked him again for being so supportive of me and our marriage. I also assured him that I still loved her and just wanted what was best for me, her, and our family. He has been amazing to me since he found out about this on Monday.

Well, I’ve got to get back to work. Wish me well tonight. I’m afraid I’ll need all the help I can get.

Good job MG.

I wish I could be there when she calls Rah Rah Boy. Choices and consequences.


Yep I remember those talks! I brought Wayzilla's suitcase to one of them.

Good luck MG, you have done a great job.

I applaud you. You may have saved her from going through what you are now going through. At least they will start their marriage on honest grounds!


I would suggest you not telling her you have been snooping. Just say something to the effect of, you need to be honest with me. What happened? I say this b/c you need her to be honest of her own accord, not b/c she thinks you already know. When she lies to you and says it was not a "physical affair" or "we were just friends", reply calmly, cooly, as if you do not care. "Do you think I am that stupid, that naieve? I do not send nude pictures to my FRIENDS!" Walk off and let her chase you to reveal what she wants to. If she keeps lying, go with the "I know you slept with rah rah boy, so quit beating around the bush and tell me what really happened." If she continues lying (the third time), I would tell her to pack her $hit and get out. Come home when she is ready to be honest. Most others here would say this will drive her to OM, but at this point I think you have already broke the A up. Now you need to bring her back to reality, a reality that inlcudes her losing her family. Get some other feedback on this part b/c i am sure it will be contentious.


You have tremendous support in her family. If you do kick her out, I think she will run to them. Sounds like your FIL will tell her to get her ace back home and start leveling with you b/c YOU want to work it out to save your marriage and family.

MGOLFER,

"" I need some help from you guys about what is most helpful to cover in this first talk. I have hundreds of questions, but I don’t want to overwhelm her at this point. I know we need to discuss NC with OM. Is it to early to demand that she get into counseling? Is it okay to ask specific questions about the affair or will I just get lies at this point?

I really want to set reasonable expectations""

You are dealing with this in the best way possible. Very orderly, calmly and "strategically".

NC with OM is a must. So do discuss this with her. It sounds like OM has already done that and will run screaming the other way if he sees her. The NC letter should not be too hard to do.

She is now hurt, humiliated and all alone. You can be her rock and safe haven. There could be some questions asked by you, but she might start running her mouth, confessing all. She has NO WHERE else to turn, correct?

I would say hold off demanding counseling. She is going to go through WITHDRAWAL from the OM. This can be easy or very hard. Like an alcoholic quitting the booze cold turkey. She is still addicted to the endorphins that saturated her brain when they were together. Endorphins like you experience swimming for 45 minutes. The withdrawal can take a week or a month.

If you do suggest counseling, I would suggest that you suggest you both go to MC, to a pro-marriage MC. That way it's not your wife that needs it because she is broken, but you both need it to recover the marriage. To commit to rebuilding.

The therapist can direct the conversation and act like a referee if the anger rises.

When she gets through the withdrawal, and realizes the error of her ways, (understatement) then the questions can be asked. The WW will always tone down the answers because 1) they are embarrassed and 2) they don't want to hurt you anymore than they have already. And 3) SOMETIMES they feel, down deep, they are betraying what they had with the OP. If you get a feel that is happening then she is not totally done with the withdrawal.

Reasonable expectations?? Best not to have any. Hope for the best, but keep snooping and attentive. She will have to earn your trust which will take a while.

Hope for complete remorse and realization of what she has done. Hope for total commitment to you and the marriage and to rebuild and recover.

With no remorse you got a problem.

IMHO

kirk

Wow. Just wow. You did the right thing. Now that young woman can make an informed decision about the rest of her life.


She probably is depressed and ashamed and embarrassed. Her whole world as she knew it has been rocked. You have shined the light in the crack house as we like to say around here.

Just a thought, but are you concerned about her hurting herself?

Mg71,
It becomes clearer with every post that you are a man of great character. You definitely did the right thing by locating and telling Meredith. You would have been complicit in her deception if you had not. Its got to feel nice that over the course of the weekend you have blown up OM's world. In 3 days he has:
a) Had his A exposed to the school, and probably had a black mark added to his file in some form.
b) Had his A exposed to his parents, lost some of their respect and nearly lost his med school financing
c) Had his A exposed to his fiance, who should kick his [censored] to the curb if she knows what is good for her.

Hopefully, he has been forced to learn that you don't screw with another man's family.

Keep doing what you are doing. And please stick around to impart some of your good judgment to newly betrayed husbands.

Agreed. I wouldn't let WW know anything mg71. Just pose the question and see where she goes with it.


But where is OM? Living in his dorm? LOL Rah Rah Boy already knows he stands to lose his financial backing if he sees WW and he seems to have woken up and smelled the coffee faster than WW. Plus OM is going to be busy groveling to Meredith soon enough. I'd keep WW home if possible mg71. But if YOU can't handle having her at home right you can always offer up staying with her parents for a bit. You keep the children though and keep to their normal routine as much as possible.

Way to go by finding Meredith.

Very nice work.

MG,

You do good work...

Amen to this. My ex used the keylogger I used on her against me and got into my emails. She wanted to monitor the emails between my family and I. I don't know why else she spied since I wasn't doing anything, but she kept tabs on what my family was telling me in emails.

She still spies on me today and reads my posts here on MB and has tried to use them against me in court.

Guard your sources as if your life depended on them because the custody of your children just might.

I tipped my hand way too early, revealed my sources, how I got my information, and paid a price for doing so.

Please understand that while we are all telling you to be James Bond or Mr. Cool we understand the horrible pain you feel inside. We know that it feels like your heart is going to jump out of your chest and literally hurts. We know that there is a low level of nausea just below the surface which makes you not want to eat. We know that food has lost most of its flavor when you do try to eat.

We know these things because we experienced them as you are experiencing them now. That's why our advice carries weight. We've been there. Some of us are advising you based on how we wished we had behaved with 20/20 hindsight. Others are advising you because they succeeded in doing what we're advising you to do.

It's tough and it sucks and we know how much you're hurting. But we're in your corner and you're not alone and you will always find people here to vent to and help you out and who have walked in your shoes.

MG

You should not ask your WW to move out. You will not be able to reconnect with each other. The kids need her home. You will place yourself at a disadvantage to know if your WW is in NC or not.

Next time WW starts a conversation, or when she is at home when she should be at work. Ask how come she is home and did not go into work that day.

You'll find out if WW had to resign, fired, suspended. If she accuses you of gloating just say you are trying to get a handle on the finances. Not knowing if she was still going to bring home a paycheck.

MG,
You’re doing great and getting some great advice.

My guess is that your WW is feeling really lonely about now. OM has ignored her and told her to leave him alone. She has lost a job where she had lots of interaction with people and you have been distant. She reached out to you last night when she asked about you ignoring her. Use that to your advantage and give her a little attention tonight before you have any affair talk.

Why don’t you pick up your favorite take-out for dinner and actually sit with her at the table and eat. You can even engage her in some small talk, work, the kids, anything but the affair. Give her a little taste of what she stands to lose. After dinner you can sit with her on the sofa and tell her “I really want us to be able to get beyond all that has happened in the past few days, but I really need to hear the truth from you for that healing to start.” If she lies, and she will, gently remind her of the truth without giving up your sources. I think your idea of giving her a few chances and if she continues to lie calmly end the conversation by saying “I really need for you to be honest with me, but apparently you’re not ready for that yet. When you are ready, we can try this again.”

She’ll get the picture that you know a lot more than you’re telling. But, don’t tell her what you know. You want to use it to get her to tell you all the details. You may think you have the whole truth, but I’ll assure you that you most likely don’t. The key is to make her think you do so that she will open up and tell you everything. Just remember that when you do get the truth, try to stay calm. You don’t want to punish her for telling the truth but you want to make her feel safe enough with you to be completely open and honest. Be patient it may take a while, but I have a good feeling about this. I think you guys have a great chance at recovery.

I have a gut feeling that she might break down in tears if you were to say, "Regardless of what has happened, I still love you and want to save our marriage."

She may feel terrible guilt and be repentant. I think her depression says a lot and she may very well feel absolutely terrible.

Expect anything tonight. If you get a wife who is sorry and breaks down and asks for your forgiveness then consider yourself lucky and in a very small minority.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that you get that woman when you talk and not the WWes most of us had to deal with.

The OB (Other Boy) is getting his just desserts!!! I sure he sat around thinking it was funny how he was @!#$ing another man's wife, MILF, and Cheerleaders Coach and her husband didn't have a clue nor did his fiance! Now he is sitting there know that the husband knows, his father and financial backer for school knows, the school knows, and now his fiance knows! Its not so funny now!!!!

MG
I have been following your post. Please accept my heartfelt condolences for you joining the Betrayed Spouse club. I am encouraged and gratified to see what a man of integrity you are.

Taking the time to find out the fiances contact information. What a stroke of genius, and what a considerate thing to do. I am sorry you will not be a fly on the wall when that little punk has to explain his actions to his potentially future wife. If she has any brains she will kick this jerk to the curb.

Right now you are responding incredibly well considering the shock from the emotional/relational car wreck you have been in. There is nothing I have experienced that can be as heart wrenching as an affair.

Just a word of advice to you. Read the posts very carefully. Remember you are in shock. When I was in shock from my wife telling me she wanted to separate, I did not fully comprehend and pay attention, thus follow the advice I was given here.

I have been reading the posts to you and some of the more experienced members seem to be favouring a softer approach. I can see the merit in this as you are both really hurting.

It would seem to me if you can muster up the ability to extend an olive branch to her at this time, especially after the injury she has delivered you, I suspect (perhaps not immediately) that she will see your depth of character, and realize what an idiot she has been. I am not talking about ignoring letting her know the destruction she has wrought, but to show that even in the immeasurable pain you are experiencing you have the depth of character to behave in a caring manner.

From what I have read at some point she will be kicking herself around the block for participating in such a juvenile and unprofessional manner. Her reputation is in tatters, she will have to wear this banner for a number of years, and hopefully she will realize this sooner than later, and apologize to you for dragging you through such a horrendous event..

By you responding in a firm but caring manner, yet keeping her fully aware of the destruction she has created, you will also cut off the justification for her running for sympathy. You will prevent the "He yelled at me", "He is uncontrollably angry", "He is being so mean" defense, allowing her to try and gain some support, should she try to run away and not face up to her actions. In doing so I think you will be heaping coals on her head. The ability to blame you will be absent. It will take some time for the gravity of her actions to sink in.

Once the affair fog lifts, I suspect, if she has any intelligence at all, that she has really screwed up, incredibly. If there were issues in your relationship this is absolutely not the way to address it. Perhaps some of the others can offer further insight into this, but from my readings the wayward mind is a mystery. If you are wanting to recover your marriage, then now is the time to think long term. I am not by any means an expert, but it make sense to me to look at your long term objectives and allow that to guide your behaviour. At times like this it feels like striking back, and inflicting like pain to the injuring party, would feel so satisfying, but that was Old Testament stuff, we are under a new set of guidelines.

By the sounds of it your Father-in-law is on board with you. My suspicion is he has had longer to develop a sense of respect for you than we have, (and from what you have done you have my respect and admiration). She still is his daughter, and he is probably disgusted and disappointed in her right now. By you behaving in the caring manner, she will not be able to run home to Daddy, claiming you have turned into some kind of beast.

If I can echo the advice of the other posters and that is do your venting here! You are doing very well under the circumstances. I just want to mention again I think you are showing great depth of character.

Sorry you have to be here

God Bless you and your family.

Flynn -

You hit it right on the nose. This just might be a good "life" lesson for the young guy if he persues his medical school goals.

MG-

Perfect execution. First post - there was a bit of BH fog. After following a plan and some advice - you now have some truth, followed a perfect "blitz" exposure, and broke up the affair within a short period of time. You are in control of the situation rather than reacting to other's actions. Excellent job.

Need to save this thread for any future BHs that question the need for exposure.

MG,

Assuming you want to save your marriage and move forward into recovery at this point, I suggest you remember that this will be a marathon and not a sprint. Your marriage didn't get to this point in a week and won't recover from it in anything like that time. Resist the normal "guy thing" of wanting to fix it all at once and get it over with. BTDT and it doesn't work that way.

As much as it sucks right now your wife is going to need you to comfort her for a while. I know that isn't fair but it is fact. She will slowly begin to realize what has just happened and that she was the cause. It will happen gradually and unfortunately the first stage will be grieving the loss of OB. That will take but a short while with any luck and then she will become grief stricken at the loss of her job, if that is indeed the case and that will be followed by more grieving over what she has done to you and her family. But at first it will still be all about her and not what has happened to you.

In her own mind, she will try to transfer to you the guilt over what took place and she will attempt to taunt you into proving that you are the bad guy in this. Don't take the bait. Don't accept any of the blame for the consequences of her actions. Don't beat her up verbally over it and don't accept invitations to fight about it.

Spend more time with her doing the small talk, playing "normal life" and being affectionate toward her than you spend talking about the affair. Try to plan something recreational that you both could enjoy and try to get her to go along. The affair needs to be discussed, but repairing the love for each other is what will keep you together through recovery.

If you sense that she is withdrawing further, give relationship issues a short break and spend more time filling love banks than hammering out solutions. Go back to finding answers when you both are able.

Recovery is harder than breaking up the affair in most cases, so be prepared for it to be two steps forward, one back, one more forward and three back followed by a great leap and then another set-back. It is the way these things go I'm afraid.

Everybody bookmark this thread so we can refer newbies to it when they are reluctant to expose and sit in fear wondering what to do.

Great job so far, MG. Now comes the hard part...

Mark

I think this advice is among the most simple yet deeply loving advice I've ever seen given here in my short time. I would take it.

MG

You have done an awesome job! Exposing to OM's fiance was the right thing to do. Her eyes are now open.

I haven't seen this addressed so I thought I'd throw it out there for you to think about. In no way, shape or form are you responsible for her choice to have an A. Don't ever accept blame for her bad choice. What you did have responsibility for was 50% of the state of your M prior to her A. In time you will need to examine that part and see what improvements need to be made. In the coming weeks and months you'll need to begin to understand what changes you can make to yourself to become a better you. MB can help you with this.

Your WW made a really really bad choice. It probably began innocently enough(she probably was not looking to have an A)and then one by one she slipped down the slippery steps to infidelity. She had weaknesses that she didn't protect. She allowed herself to be selfish and entitled just so she could feel a rush. And that's all it was. It wasn't about YOU. It was about her.

This point is hard for most BSs to grasp. Yes, she is M to you. Yes, she is supposed to love you. Yes, she hurt you more than you thought was even possible. Yet during this whole A, she wasn't thinking about you or how this could ever affect you. She was thinking of herself. End of story. You'll ask "how could you do this?" a hundred times. Most WSs don't have a clue. It takes a lot of soul searching to find this answer. But it's a very important answer that needs to be dissected so it NEVER happens again. In the not too distant future these thoughts will invade your head. The sooner you "get it" the better.

I also recommend showing some compassion if you can. I know you are devastated from her A. There is nothing to compare to that pain. But your WW is going to experience her own pain soon enough. And as others have mentioned she will beat herself up for years if she becomes a truly remorseful S. In the next few weeks focus on the future of a R marriage. Keep that goal in mind and try not to do things that you will regret later or that will cause more damage than good.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. Someday your WW will be grateful that you fought for her.

Now hold on to your hat, some hard discussions lie ahead.

We had a long night last night. I got some truth, but like many of you warned it was like pulling teeth. She tried to lie every time until I prompted her by insinuated that I knew she was lying. But, we did a couple of truths out on the table and I guess we can work from there. I have so much more that I want to ask her, but she obviously isn’t ready to be transparent so I may as well take what I have and wait a little.

Like every other time in the past few days, I came home to find her in her pajamas and obviously no shower. I took someone’s advice and told her I was going to pick up some take out from a little Italian restaurant down the road and suggested that she may feel better if she took a long shower while I was gone and that we could eat together when I got back. She did take a shower and put on some clean pj’s, not exactly dressing up for dinner, but a huge improvement.

We had a fairly pleasant dinner with me talking and her at least smiling and nodding occasionally. When we finished, I cleaned the table while she went to watch TV. When I finished, I came and sat with her and told her that we really needed to talk about what had happened. She started to protest, but I told her that I had been patient to this point but that I needed a few answers. I then just asked her to explain to me all that had happened.

I’m glad that I read the posts here first, because this must be like a script. She said exactly what everyone said she would. “It was just some innocent flirting that got a little out of hand.” I responded by telling her that I had seen the pictures and it was way beyond flirting. I asked her if she really expected me to believe that there was nothing physical going on. She swore that it was just flirting and the pictures. I told that I wasn’t that naïve. I then ask what she would say if I told her that I knew that it was way more than that. She then said that there was some kissing, but that was all. I finally told her that she was obviously not ready to be honest and that maybe we could try this again when she was ready. I then told her “I know way more than you think, but I really need to hear the truth from you.” She said “okay, we slept together are you happy now?” I just left her there and went to my den. I heard from everyone that she would do this, but I was really ticked off at that point. I didn’t show her how angry I was, but I almost chewed the end of my tongue off to keep from going off on her.

She came in about an hour later and said “I know you’re upset, but I really can’t deal with this right now.” I told her that I understood but that we were going to have to deal with this sooner rather than later. I also told her “you may not believe me, but I do still love you. I’m incredibly angry and disappointed right now, but I still love you.” I then told her that I really do want to try to work things out, but that it’s going to take her being completely honest at some point for that to happen. She said “I know” and went to bed.

Should I try again with her later today, or should I give her some more time. I’m just an emotional wreck at this point. I’m angry, I’m frustrated, I’m sad, and I get sick to my stomach just looking at her today. Maybe I need a break more than she does. I really wish I was working today so that I could escape for just a bit. It’s really not good for my temperament to be around her too much at this point. I’m starting to beat myself up for even trying this. I always said that infidelity was a deal breaker, but that’s easier to say when it’s not reality.

Yes, but go easy for now. If she were to have her druthers, she'd druther not talk about it at all. Just make it go away, like it never happened.

Maybe some of the guys can come along and guide you on how to resume the discussions.

But remember what Mark advised you:


Oh, and continue the snooping. She may be trying to stall until she can connect and "talk" to OB.

Your WW is in Just Fugedaboudit mode.



Get out for a while, hit a couple bookstores or the library and see if you can find Survivng an Affair. If you can't find it order it.

I strongly recommend getting a call into the Harleys.

We're all pretty good at helping to bust up affairs and the Wayward Script but you really need the Harleys for recovery.


Funny, just about everyone says this but when finally faced with it we chose to attempt recovery.




Totally agree.

mg71,

You are going through the normal emotions. MANY of us thought that infideltiy was a "deal breaker" for us, but later reconsidered when faced with the REALITY. Over a year past D-Day ... THAT fact still haunts me and has damaged my self-respect, even though I am confident that I made the correct decision to R. THIS issue will be VERY hard for you to deal with, and won't get much better with time ... you have shown your strength of character so I don't suppose there's any point in blowing any sunshine your way.

Regarding continuing the discussion ... this seems to be the best time ... you've opened the dialogue ... the kids are still out of the house ... and you have the whole day off. I know that your WW will want to delay as long as possible, but just let her know that you've been kept in the dark about what was going on in your life long enough, and now you need some answers. Tell her that you have shown her that you can take it without losing your composure, so she has nothing to fear from telling you EVERYTHING.

This approach worked for me ...

"FWW, I love you ... so much so that I'm willing to try to recover our M after all of this. You have betrayed my trust, so it will not be easy, but for me to start to rebuild that trust, I must know everything that happened. You see ... you are my W ... and if that is going to continue, I simply can't allow there to be secrets shared between you and another man. I can't change what happened, but at least there's not some guy out there that shares something intimate with MY W that I don't know about."

BTW, I know you feel like he11, but you really are doing GREAT. Hang in there.

And that sums it all up. You're doing a great job so far MG, I wish I'd acted sooner or I wouldn't be in such a mess now, still going round in circles.

My WW and I traded texts the other night, seems easier that way. I texted 'I NEED to know the WHOLE truth of what is, or has been, going on. No matter how much it will hurt. Can you understand that? Only from there can we have any hope'. She texted back 'I HAVE TOLD YOU the truth. It all stopped ages ago' And I know this to be total lies. My W is in denial and delusional as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck MG

Would it be too early to give her a copy of Joseph's letter?

Any thoughts? Is she too foggy yet?

It may be because he still hasn't heard any type of committment from her to recovery, much less the marriage. I think until he knows where she stands, he should let her do most of the talking. You can't educate a WS, even a busted WS, this early. As far as he knows and we know, she's STILL a WS. KWIM?

MG,

I applaud you! Seriously, you're showing backbone and self respect and it will pay off in a major way once her fog lifts.

I see many signs of hope. It will be like pulling teeth until she sees the fog lifts.

You were a master in how you handled things and I wish I had had half the composure you have displayed.

Continue to be cool. Don't feel bad if you have a "FU" moment here and there, but it's awesome that you have kept your cool this way.

She will likely break down big time eventually.

I would make it clear to her that you must know everything and that she must be willing to answer all the details when you ask. Holding anything back to only have you discover things later will simply serve to open wounds. Better to hear things from her up front than to learn them later.

I must warn you that there is a common state of mind which affects the majority of the betrayed. Snooping becomes an obsession. You'll find yourself wanting to read her emails, check her cell phone records, go through her bedroom drawers, coat pockets, pant pockets, and web surfing habits. You'll want to listen in to her phone conversations and just generally become pre-occupied with spying.

This is normal.

It's a self defense response to the fact that you have been hurt so badly by someone you trusted so deeply and who has betrayed you. You'll question every word they say. I'm going to share the 180 with you, which is a great guide for how to act right now that you are in Plan A. Here it is:

This list was originally titled, “The 180” and it won’t take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own.

The 180

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner. (In your case, DO)

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

Only you can know if it's worthwhile to try and recover. Did you have something once that was so good it's worth the effort to try and get it back? Or has the relationship always been rocky and unsatisfying? Your answer to those questions may possibly be a guide to what you want to do now.

I don't think so. I think she's more likely in the "I need to know what he actually knows so I can lie and spin accordingly" mode.

She is likely going to try to contact the OM again, to see what he's heard and experienced after exposure.

I would suggest holding off the "twenty questions" for awhile, until she's out of this and well through "withdrawal". The BS already has access to all the basic facts already.

To follow up on my earlier post, I was finally able to check the computer again. Apparently, she still hasn’t figured out that I can see all of her activity. She has emailed him 6 times in the past 48 hours, all basically just asking him to call her. But one interesting one was sent at 2:00AM this morning. She wanted to know what he had said about them. She told him “My husband knows everything. Have you talked to him? What did you tell him? Please call me!” Apparently our little talk last night has her a little paranoid.

To his credit he hasn’t responded to any of them. I’m guessing that this relationship has become more trouble than fun at this point and he’s just ready to forget it ever happened. I have called and our home internet connection will be cut off sometime today. I still have access through my aircard, but she will be cut off. I know it doesn’t guarantee NC, but it will make it a lot more difficult.

I am taking everyone’s advice. I am heading out to the gym this afternoon. After that, I’m meeting a friend for dinner. I need to get my mind of all of this for a little while. I’ll deal with her when I get home. If she’s still awake, I may try to push for a few more answers. If not, we still have tomorrow evening before the kids come home on Saturday.

Thanks again for all the help. By the way, I like the “180” idea. If nothing else, it may make me feel like I’m regaining some control over my life. I’ll have to think about that.

And if she does contact him again, he will probably be more inclined than before to talk to her, seeing as how Meredith already knows.

If this happens, be prepared to re-expose to rah rah boy's father so he can enforce his "med school financing" boundary

I'm not sure I would cut off the internet access. It seems like a good source of info for you and she does not realize you are seeing it. You could force her to get more creative.

I don't know if I'd have done that. While she's still in her CMA mode, you may be able to gain a lot more information about the A if she thinks that her communications are still secret.

She may also see the move as controlling and vindictive. And she will also now KNOW that you found out the information about her from her Internet activity.

If you do cut off the Internet be prepared for her to leave the house to get information.

I hope you GPS'ed her car?!

I'd invest in a couple of digital recorders as well. One in her car and one in the house.

I agree that turning it off will only require you to chase her NEW methods of contact. Not good.

At least you know HOW she is attempting to contact him. With the Internet off, you'll be searching again.

Jo

That was my first thought. She is getting pretty desperate.


That's what I would do.

If it were me, (and thankfully it's not) I would call OB and assure him that if he calls, emails or meets with WW that you guarantee you will know about it,(he knows you are dangerous) and when you know about it, his Dad will know about it 15 seconds later.

Have to agree with the group here. Don't cutoff your connection or she'll be creative and you'll lose a major source of intel.

Leave her wondering how you're finding things out and NEVER tell her how you're monitoring her emails.

I made the mistake of doing so in my situation and things got a lot harder to track and learn. Don't let a good source of intel dry up by encouraging her to find new avenues.

In case you didn't know:

Most cell phone records are available online and with nearly instant updates.

Now that's a different thing right there. I'd cut that off if she's using it to talk to OB.

Have you separated your funds? This is really important. I was cleaned out by my ex who moved a lot of our funds into a new checking account.

I'd cancel all her credit cards and open a new account only you have access to.

She'll say it's controlling. All you have to do is respond that you don't trust her and are protecting your family's assets. You can then tell her that you're happy to treat her like your wife when she starts acting like your wife.

The 180 is great.

Stay strong, MG. You're a shining example to other BHes on how they should behave.

Okay, you guys make a lot of sense. I have called the cable company and the internet access will not be cut off. I didn't think about losing my only source of good info.

The good thing is that right now she had no cell phone. She always used her university issued phone which they took back on Monday. Maybe I will get her a phone and put it on my account so that I can monitor any future calls. This would at least maybe keep her from getting a seperate account which I can't see.

Our finances have always been sort of seperated. We have our own accounts and 1 joint account which we both fund based on a percent of our incomes to pay household and child related bills. With expensive hobbies, this has always prevented any friction over finances. I removed her as an approved signatory on my account on Monday. I also stopped the automatic transfer to the joint account. I will pay may part of the household bills, which will be all of them since she is unemployed now, out of my personal account.

I may be wrong, but I would imagine that rah rah boy isn't very interested in my WW at this point. I'm sure she's not nearly as attractive to him now as when she was a flirty romp in the sack with no strings attached. In his mind, she has to be getting pretty expensive. But, I'll keep a watch on him anyway. At this point I can't afford to make any assumptions.

Turn the internet back on.
You closed off your one big source to monitor if there is NC, and if there is C then you'll know what they are saying.

Great idea and reason to get her a cell phone added to your account. But get her one of these. They have cell phones with real time GPS. However do not reveal that feature to her.

Her attempt to call him to find out what he may have told you....is noting more than her trying to see how much she has to admit to. Right now all you got was OK I slept with him. Now she is trying to find out how many times and what type of sex and where that she has to admit to. This means it was more than you thought.

I would say that I talked with his father again and he sadi that the son stated that you are continuing to try to contact but thta he will not repsond. He is trying to repair his relationship with his fiance and father. That all she was was a M.I.L.F (older woman) that he messed around with and got pictures of to show his friends and she means nothing!!! Something like that. And see how she takes it. Just a thought!!

I would not make up any stories that aren't true regarding your sources. I would also not tip your hand and tell her ANYTHING regarding "where" or "how" you know what you know.

If she lies or withholds info, you simply tell her you know she's doing so because you know the truth.

Don't play games with the truth.

Jo

Although it would probably be best to no longer have contact with OB's Dad (who knows how he took the Meredith thing if he knows) it would be great if OB's Dad responded back on her emails to OB and in no uncertain terms demands NC with his son.

That would probably end her attempts.



I agree.

MG, are you keylogging or do you just know her password?

I'd worry about secret e-mail accounts if it is the latter.

From his first post.

K, good.

I copy Resilent. Truth. Don't spin lies, don't reveal sources.

Another crazy day in the soap opera that is my life. By the way, you guys were right. I went to the gym yesterday afternoon and met a friend for dinner afterwards. We went to a sports bar to eat and watch the Cincy vs S Fl game and had a great time. The funny thing is that I came home happy and upbeat and that actually seemed to make her angry.

I did check the computer again this morning before work and there were 3 more emails to OB. Each one seemed to get angrier and more desperate for him to contact her. He did email her back, but I could tell that she hadn’t read it yet. That didn’t stop me from opening it and seeing what rah rah boy had to say. Here’s the message:

“Can you not get the message?

Stop emailing me!

This is over!

I am in a sxxtload of trouble and you’re not helping. My dad is pxssed. Meredith is pxssed. The university put me on probation and one more problem and they said they would expel me. I would still graduate, but that would ruin my GPA and probably keep me out of medical school.

I’m sorry if you got in trouble, but it’s over. They know everything so leave me alone!”

This will probably have her even more ticked off by the time I get home. But, at least I know that continued contact with him is unlikely. I am planning on trying to talk to her again tonight before the kids come home tomorrow.

Should I tell her that I know she’s still contacting him? What is realistic to expect from her at this point? I plan to push her for a commitment to at least trying to salvage our marriage and a commitment to NC.

MG,
you have done things perfectly up to this point. notice he is establishing NC. He is done with her. This should hit her like a ton of bricks. When she sees you doing fine without her, it makes her angry. You are also right on in waiting for a committment from her. Keep up the good work!

I hope you set that message to unread if that can be done when using a keylogger.

I think she needs to commit to NC but I also think that it is pretty much clear that rah rah boy wants absolutely no contact so she would be a fool to continue her attempts at contacting him.

Continue to do things that make you look like you're having a great time - out to eat, exercise, movies, whatever. When she finds she's been dumped, turns around to look at you and sees you getting on with your life, you'll suddenly look like the most attractive guy on earth. (theoretically)

But don't stop doing Plan A, making the homelife great, no LBs, etc.

MG71,

It sounds like you are still doing everything right.

I agree with leaving the internet connected. You should consider logging all of her contact/attempted contact with OB, just in case. It might also help you to see if/how much her attempted communications with OB have dropped in number.

Call me super-paranoid, but I wouldn't put it past a WS and their OP to completely fabricate the type of "leave me alone!" e-mail you posted eariler, just to throw you off. She might know or suspect that you are tracking her internet activity, and simply not care right now.

Despite what you've said to her, she's probably assuming this will end in divorce, or that you will punish her for the rest of her life if she does stay married. You need to let her know that it's not the affair that will dictate the future...it's how she conducts herself from this point forward. Assuming that's how you feel, of course.

If her work cell phone was taken, one of the first things she'll want to do when she leaves the house again is get her hands on another cell phone. She may get her own provider, or she might get a pay-as-you-go phone, which is impossible to obtain records for. You have to physically find the phone to know it exists.

"Surviving An Affair" is a good book. I would also recommend "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It will help you quite a bit, but it will help your W much, much more if she will willingly sit down and read it.

Get her tested for STDs.

One thing that many people here will not agree with:

If I was in your shoes, and after 3-4 weeks I was still getting dubious answers or no answers at all, I'd suggest a polygraph test. If she balks, I'd wait another week or so then do this:

Start a new email account (Yahoo, whatever) with a username similar to the one he uses now. Block his current email address from your computer (in secret, of course), so that no incoming emails from that address can be received.

Then, you contact her, posing as OB. Tell her that you closed your old email and opened this one to avoid getting caught. Tell her that you'll talk to her, but you won't meet her in person.

From this point, you'll have to use your creativity and knowledge of your wife, OB, and the A to get information out of her. Exercise plenty of patience and be ready to learn some hurtful things. Do this right and you can learn much. Get the info you want, then have OB declare his undying love for his fiance, declare that your W doesn't even compare, and that the A was the biggest mistake of his life.

If my W had denied me information I needed, I would've stooped to this level.

Keep your guard up. Most 22-year-olds would have unprotected sex with a heroin-addicted Haitian prostitute with hemophilia if it meant they could "get some". Don't think for a second that OB won't put it all on the line. After a couple of weeks of not getting his lil' smokie wet, the thought will occur to him.

"We can do it one more time without getting caught!"

Do not assume he's out of the picture yet.

You are doing a great job so far.

Rah-Rah! Rah-Rah Boy!

This will help her defog much quicker. No illusions about where he stands.

I don't agree with the fake email account from OB at all.

That is not going to be constructive. He's established NC and is now fighting for his future. She's not worth it to him.

Reality is crubling around WW.

Creating a fake account is somewhat childish, IMHO. It's one thing to create a fake profile to see if the wife is still flirting with guys online. It's another to impersonate a real person that she could easily identify by the way he writes.

There's really nothing to be gained by him doing this and it will just blow up in his face.

Rah-Rah Boy is freaked out and sees his future in jeapordy and is not willing to risk it with WW. It really is OVER.

So now she must face the aftermath and the reality and make a choice about fixing her marriage or pursuing a dead end or ending the marriage altogether.

MG, make sure you go back into the email account and mark the message as "Unread" or you will tip your hat that you're in her email.

I agree and had the same thought. She is DESPERATE.


Bad advice Krazy. He KNOWS it's over because he's been talking to OB's father who told MG personally that he was going to cut OB off from medical school. The affair is over at least from OB's point of view. Now, WW, that may be a different story.

I bet she does send OB one more email today and it will be a expletive laced major rant about what he has done to her and how bad her life is now. Then it should be over.

Withdrawal from OB and the fantasy should be accelerated in this case due to the monumental consequences exposure has caused her and OB’s swift exit.

Heck, he even admits to betraying her; “They know everything.”

All in one week!

Unless the marriage was a hopeless disaster prior to the adultery, and this does not appear to be the case, she will probably agree to recovery in the next few days.

Keep Plan A going. No love busters. Stay vigilant for deception by WW and OB. And now prepare for the hard part; Recovery.

Make no mistake MG, what you have done so far has been easy compared to the drawn out minefield known as recovery.

Get a call into the Harleys so they can help you make a plan.

I also disagree with the fake email, but only because I think she needs to be willing to work on the marriage. That includes telling you exactly what happened, where, when, etc. If she does not open up and tell you, then she is not willing. Lie detector is good idea to assure you it is the truth. The fake email would give you information about the affair but might blow up in your face as well. To me the fake email is more of a last ditch effort if she said she is done and you still feel like you need to know.

Like the other details of the A, I think I'd give her a chance to come clean on this one and just insinuate that you know a lot more than you do. For example, I'd say something like "I would like very much for you to commit to never contacting rah-rah again." When she says "I haven't talked to him all week!" you can say "You and I both know you are not committed to no contact. I would like a commitment from you that there will be no more contact."

If she agrees, ask her to write a NC letter that YOU review, approve, and mail to rah-rah. Explore with her what precautions will be put in place to ensure that contact does not occur. Don't take "I just won't contact him" for an answer. Tell her that she has proven to be weak and untrustworthy. Ask her if she wants to give up her internet access, to put a bug on the phone, to put a GPS on her car. Explain to her that this is not to control or punish her, but to help her rebuild your trust in her. See what she says. Follow through with this.

If she is stupid enough to say (and I'm betting she is) she hasn't tried to contact him or that there has been no contact, tell her "You and I both know that is a lie. We can discuss our situation again when you're ready to be honest with me." and then I'd leave the room. I'd let her stew and panic and wonder WHAT do you know and HOW do you know it?

At this point, realistically you should expect nothing from her but depression and anger. She has to get through withdrawal from rah-rah before she can think clearly and begin to focus on what she wants for her future. Which is kind of funny, really, because YOU are the one holding all the cards.

Even though she is incapable of committing to NC right now, I think you should still gently let her know that is what you expect. Set the bar high. Remind her that you don't want to punish her, you want to protect the marriage from her bad decisions and poor boundaries. Encourage her that she can change these and gain your trust back, but that it will take time.

I agree, do NOT create a fake email account.

I did it and it nearly backfired.....gave WH reason NOT to trust me after we were starting on recovery. It would be worst for you because you couldn't tell her like I did that very same night ETA (after he told me about it and asked me to delete it for him....that built my trust in him, but he was devastated when I said to "look really closely at the address" before deleting and he realized that I was capable of such deceit.)

It's a game....don't play games with the truth.

Keep up the great work, MG. You're inspiring many here as well as many cyberlurkers you may never know about.

Thanks,
Ace

P.S. Hi Chrisner.

I stated that the fake email account tactic should be used only after giving her the opportunity to fess up on her own, and after she refuses to take a polygraph test.

I say get the truth at all costs, if you need to. If you can accept lies and live with them, do so.

It will not and cannot backfire, unless you admit to deceiving her. There is no way to prove who was actually sending the messages.

If she (or any WS) doesn't like it, then she shoulda been honest in the first place. I say all's fair.



OB is in shock right now, too, no doubt.

Despite all that he said, I would not assume he's out of the picture, yet. If his fiance dumped him, he might be *sniffle* all depressed and sad, and turn to her for "comfort", with little regard for his future.

We've all seen WSs throw away everything for a fling....WSs that weren't youngsters, either.

Totally disagree with the fake email account.
That is dishonest and it is entrapment.

Rah-Rah is in damage control mode on his end. I'm sure he's been feeding his fiance a bunch of wayward lies and trying to win her back and his dad is probably watching him like a hawk. Putting his med school chances at risk is also a big incentive on his part to cut things off.

I really feel he's out of the picture and is probably kicking himself for what he thought was harmless fun all along and a fling. There doesn't appear to be any romantic love and was simply enjoying the escapades of being with an older woman.

This was nothing more than a throw away fling for him and it's now blown up on him big time.

MG is the one in total control in this situation and I'd encourage him to just lie still for now, Plan A, 180, and watch as she goes through withdrawl.

It is dishonest, of course. Everyone lies, and this particular lie is for a very good cause...a BSs peace of mind.

Entrapment? Not a chance. Just because he emails her and says "This is OB", does not mean she has to respond. If she does respond, too bad.

One more thing:

There is NO WAY, NOT A CHANCE IN ____ that OB's father will cease paying for medical school if he's caught messing with her again.

It is a threat without teeth. No sane parent would wreck their child's future because they banged the wrong person. No way.

Nix to the fake email addy idea...very bad idea. I think you already know that.

No need to nix the idea completely. It should be used as a last resort.

She should be given every opportunity to avoid this tactic, but I do not believe the BS should have to A) Live with lies or B) Get a divorce if the WS refuses to be honest.

I would suggest sodium pentathol or waterboarding, but those options aren't legal.

A fake email account isn't going to kill anyone, should it become the only option for obtaining the truth.

Keep the internet visability to yourself. No comments about her attempted contact. She is still fogged, going thru withdrawal depression, and "thinking" she can do some damage control with you. You might find that source useful again later. If you need a source of info, it not your ability to see her internet activity, it's pompom boy's admission to his father and the school.

An STD test is in order for both of you. Tell her you both need to be tested for your sake and sanity.

Set up appointments to talk with her, this way no one feels blind sided. Tell her if she's going to continue to lie, don't bother saying anything.

Getting her a cellphone on your plan is a very good proactive choice to ensure you can see the calls. Personally, I would tap the home phone, thats were she is spending all of her time.

You’re right Krazy, I COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR TACTICS.

DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH THE TRUTH.

MG71: PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS.

Your means of intel is solid for now and gives you everything you need to know regarding the status of your wife’s affair in terms of contact with OB.

Jo

I agree, don't play mind games. It will just eat at you.

I would however like to take a moment and preach, preach, preach.

Things are going to well for you, could you take a few minutes and do the following?

Clear all your cookies,
Delete any and all temporary internet files
Clear all internet history

If your using windows 2000/XP/Vista, try and keep all your visits to MB on a seperate account
and make sure you logout of the Mb account and back into your usual one whenever you leave the computer.

It would be such a shame to see a flawless execution of MB concepts be thwarted by a angry snooping WW.

I agree with this. It is not a good idea at this point, but you may need it down the road.

Krazy,

I suppose I'm one of the few around here that relates well to your way of thinking.

Many here are WAY TOO passive in their handling of tough situations, and it shows in the results.

MB has an EXCELLENT plan for breaking up an A, but as has been pointed out very well on another thread, it has little to nothing to offer towards R UNLESS BOTH spouses are on board.

Breaking up the A is JOB 1, and this has been accomplished masterfully in this instance, but mg71 is still struggling with a unrepentent WW after being exposed a week ago. Experience shows that the odds of a successful R, go way down if the WW won't agree to NC and recommit IMMEDIATELY.

So to my mind, this means the BH should take his efforts to another level, because the results of mg71's efforts, while exemplary up to this point, have plateaued and he is beginning to find himself in "BH Limbo He11".

For a BH in his shoes ... now is not the time to take a breather ... NOW is the time to mash on the gas with righteous indignation. He needs to KNOW if he has a WW that is CAPABLE of R, and as of right now ... it doesn't look good, as it appears that he's dealing with an immature (not uncommon for her profession), selfish person that is too much into HERSELF.

I hope I'm wrong because of the GREAT EFFORTS of mg71 up to this point, but every day that she continues to pout and gaslight, the odds of success decrease. So until she shows some indication of remourse and recommitment, I'm with Krazy that all tactics should remain on the table as viable options, should they BECOME NECESSARY for mg71 to get at the truth, so he can make fully informed decisions about his future.

I am one of those few 2 and agree wholeheartedly!

Krazy,

It will not help the withdrawal process if all of a sudden her heart starts racing and the endorphins start saturating her brain again, that there may still be a chance.

Even if it is not the OB.

Like holding a glass of Laphroig, single malt scotch under the nose of an alcoholic that has been sober for 6 months.

Kinda.

kirk

True, but what better way to test the alcoholic's resolve? Are they serious about remaining sober or aren't they?

As a last resort tactic, you can glean information AND take a peek into what your WS is really thinking.

I heartily agree with this statement. I was one of the WAY too passive ones.

She's not had time to get through the first bits of withdrawal, so of course she's not capable of committing to R right now. While some waywards are immediately remorseful and contrite, I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule. Most continue to cake-eat (which his WW can't) and even those that commit to NC and R usually slip and have contact after the original NC letter is sent. I think she's very typical at this point.

If you spin the above lies you can count on them biting you later.

Reading these posts a question came across my mind

I agree that OB is neutralized for now. This has blown up in his face and is in major damage control. When reading his email I could almost hear the little boys voice crying about how he got caught and now he has an owie.

But now the question comes up. Something caused MGs wife to participate in this affair. So what is the risk of her replacing OB with some other dude?

Is it the person they get attached to or is it the attributes and the activities they get attached to. Will the desire to fill the part that was missing in her relationship with MG still be there, and will she keep looking for that with someone else?

Ideally MG will be able to address this through meeting her EN's but does this always work? I hope I have been able to explain this adequately. I am trying to determine in how many cases OM1 gets replaced with OM2 because of the excitement that the A generates.

And if this is the case how does MG emotionally protect himself. My heart is bleeding for MG right now but he is one smart guy, and his execution has been stellar, but this is not over.

What kind of time line will MG be looking at? I am intimately familiar with the emotional toll this takes on a person, and the way he has executed so far shows he is very strategic in his approach. So how does he prepare himself for what will be facing him over the next several months?

Sun Tsu says in the Art of War - Do not try to defeat your enemy - defeat your enemies strategy. In this case knowledge is power.

What else does MG need to prepare himself for?
Can he best be helped by getting a sense of the next phases?
A bit of a road map of how these scenarios play out?

I wished I could offer more. But I am learning through MG's experience here. I wished I had been as smart.

To me, gaining the knowledge you need is worth any fallout afterwards, including divorce.

I absolutely would not remain in my marriage if I hadn't gotten all of the answers I was looking for, sooner rather than later.

MG,

""Should I tell her that I know she’s still contacting him?""

I would say NO! NO! NO! (Amy Winehouse)

Since he has told her in no uncertain terms to pound sand up there with a rubber mallet, the full humiliation and realization of where she actually was in RRB's pecking order is going to come crashing down on her.

She should be so fricken peeoed at him that contacting him will be the last thing on her mind.

Plus it should totally help with her withdrawal.

I would NEVER let her know how you know so much. Even though this RRB is out of the picture, it will not hurt to keep in snooping mode.

Plan A your A off. Be the best darn husband, friend, companion, lover (?) you can be.

At some point before the lover part, the STD subject must be broached.....gently, but with concern for your health and safety, yes?

What to expect from her right now? Self pity, grief, fear of the unknown and future. What is going to happen now?

Total remorse and begging forgiveness would be nice! Maybe soon.

Stay strong. You are doing EXCELLENT

How are the children? Are they asking any questions?

kirk

See, I disagree with the premise of "withdrawal" in this instance. To my mind, this doesn't appear to be a "romantic affair" ... this was nothing more than playtime ... I've often heard it described as "Sport F*@#ing". In reality, she is just depressed over the fallout from being discovered and exposed, and is showing she is much more worried about her current status and future, than her BH or family.

Her emails don't indicate that she pining away for this boy, she's just trying to find out how deep of a pile she's stepped in.

... and in all honesty, its irrelevant. Regardless of "WHY" she won't re-engage in the marital relationship ... the reality of the situation remains the same ... every day she pouts and continues to gaslight mg71, the chances for a successful R DECREASES.

It has been pointed out that for WW's ... how they act IMMEDIATELY after discovery is the greatest indicator of future marital success, and this one is looking worse every day, in spite of mg71's SUPERIOR efforts.

I have also been worried all along that this wasn't a one time fling for her ... possibly this one "got to her" a little more ... but if I were mg71, I would be wondering if this was a single isolated instance or whether this was just the "boy toy of the year". I just don't see any semblence of remourse that I would expect from someone who just "made a mistake".

I totally agree with this post EXCEPT that I think for his wife, it may be that she was and is emotionally attached and had more feelings for the OB than the OB had for her. I also wonder if this was the only time this has happened....especially considering that she is around young handsome guys all the time. I do however think that there is hope....it just takes some WS's longer to come around.

I have been amazed at how well MG has handled all of this and if the outcome is positive it will surely be because he has done such a good job. My prayer is that it will be positive.

One thing that has surprised me is that it doesn't even seem like the wife is worried about the children not being home. Although he hasn't mentioned the kids and them being at the grandparents this week....I just know that if it were ME, I would be over there collecting my kids and being a mother to them. I do, however, understand that she is in the selfish mode that it definately takes to be in the situation she is in....but I just wondered about that and maybe he can address it later.

MyRev's points are well taken.

Fogfree came here within a few days, didn't she?

My H didn't.

MG's W isn't showing instant signs of remorse or wanting to change.

Withdrawal takes a long time, especially if they don't have a safe place to vent or seek help. (It took my H nearly 6 months to get through withdrawal even though he seemed remorseful.....would have been shorter had I found these forums sooner).

I still suggest do NOT create any lie that might hinder potential recovery later.

ETA: I not only created a fake email account to email WH pretending I was OW, I also used one of WH's secret email accounts to email OW, pretending that I was WH. It was my BS fog.... I now know, but I was desperate because I did not have MB at the time. MG has discovered MB at a time (I'm guessing) when many of us only wish we had done so in our own sitches.

Ace

You could be right ... I just don't see "romantic emotion" in her emails ... I see desperation to determine her status so she can cover her tracks with believable lies. In her emails, she nevers says "I miss you", or "I wish this would have worked out differently". They are all about "what did you tell them" and "how much do they know" type stuff.

You also make a very valid point about her maternal instincts ... I'm afraid this is a very "cold" woman indeed.

On the contrary and from a BTDT pov, if she hasn't already she is coming up with an email telling him exactly how she feels, telling him off and saying things along the lines of "Didn't this mean anything to you? Did you just use me?", etc, etc. I could be wrong, but I would lean toward this.


IMO, it's too early to help with her withdrawal. Due to the fact she sent 6 emails before he sent one she is in desperate need of a fix from him. His little reply, although a punch in the stomach, was a fix. She kept going until he replied. She may continue to do that.


I totally agree.

MG,

I know you stated somewhere that your children come home this weekend, are you going to be around? If your WW is in pity party mode she may not be giving them the best care. She may be short, distracted and so on. You need a back up plan if you are working.

IMO, it is time to talk about NC, about what it is going to take to recover your marriage and also talk to her about her job as a mom and taking care of the kids. Spell it out even though it's common sense. Infidelity often causes both BS's and WS's to lose their common sense.

You are doing great and I hope others are taking note that the way you are handling this is how it should be handled.

LC

Mgolfer,

While MyRev and I often don't see exactly eye to eye on how to proceed in some cases, I do think he and others have a very very valid point.

Now perhaps you have been so wrapped up in all of this, that you have not fully explained the conversations you are having with your W, but if she has not told you she is sorry, if she has not told you she wants to remain in this marriage, if she has not really focussed on the children yet...THEN THERE ARE MORE PROBLEMS.

Withdrawal is a valid and real issue, but one can be in withdrawal and still express remorse if for nothing else being caught. I don't get the idea she is focussed on anyone but herself.

If that is the case Mgolfer, she needs to know the meter is running. You need to sit down and talk with her parents about what is going on and what you fear (she doesn't care, she has done this before, she is showing no signs of wanting to even TRY to rebuild this marriage). I would be happier if she told you she did not want to because the plans here can address this.

MyRev and others may be right, some shock therapy may be required to get her to quit the CMA behavior and focus on the other shoe poised over her head. Perhaps her parents can convey your concerns. Perhaps you have been struggling with your anger so much that you have not adequately articulated your goals, your concerns, and the fact that the meter is running on this situation.

A week after d-day is NOT a long time for the WS to wallow in misery and dispair, but it seems a long time for her to have not addressed herself to some things such as you, her family, her children. Again, perhaps this has happened and we simply don't know about it. But, it would help us offer you advice if we knew the situation a bit better.

You cannot recover your marriage by avoiding her. You two need to talk, no LB's but that does not mean you cannot explain to her "how the cow ate the cabbage". Be firm, be concise, and avoid love busters while expressing your fears and struggle with this whole thing.

This affair may have only been a PA for a month or so, but they have been involved for much longer and as been mentioned Rah Rah may not have been the first.

Time to firm up your stance and your interactions with her. Running to the gym to cool off is NOT addressing this problem. It is not a bad idea but avoiding a serious discussion about what she wants is not going to cut it.

It seems to me she was emotionally involved with OM, she is trying to see what he told, but I suspect she was seeking support as well. I mean if women can fall in love with young teenage students with no hope of this kid supporting them, then the fact that he was just graduating from college may feed her fantasy.

Let us know what is going on, and start to engage your W in some serious discussions.

God Bless,

JL

Another reason I am strongly for the lie detector test. She did come home (but we do not know if that is b/c she wanted the Marriage or did not want to lose her job), but she has not shown one ounce of "want" to make the marriage work. Still early but if she does want the marriage she should be moving to the stage of Oh $hit I may be a divorced, single mother in a few months.

IMO, it's too early for that. Right now she is in pure panic mode and isn't thinking of anything else other than "How the heck am I going to spin this if I don't kwow what he knows?"

ETA: What I mean by too early is too early for her to be pinning.

No doubt they talked about what they would do/say if they got caught, but things aren't going the way they planned they would.

Just my 2 cents.

LC

I would venture a guess that she is a conflict-avoiding narcissist.

Don't take that as an insult, MG...I could write out a laundry list of my own wife's shortcomings, too.

LC,

Your insight may be dead on. MyRev suggests a more direct approach, I tend to go to the wait and see approach. However, in this case I think MyRev may be right. She needs some unfarnished truth told to her. The pity party needs to end with regard to making no commitments, handling the children, and other issues.

I would bet good money she is very very depressed right now. She lost her lover, Rah Rah. She lost her job/career. She lost the respect of her parents, and she has lost the respect of Mgolfer. Who knows how the children will react but in her pity party I would bet she thinks her marriage is over as well, thus she hurt the kids.

She may need help to deal with all of this. However, she also needs a "wake up" call from Mgolfer about deciding where she wants to spend her life and efforts. Step #1 is a No Contact letter from her to him.

Step #2 is probably counseling for both of them.

Step #3 is both Mgolfer and his W making decisions about how they want to shape the future or attempt to shape the future.

We'll see. I hope that some of what we all fear is just us not knowing that certain conversations have taken place between MG and his W.

God Bless,

JL

Hola JL,

Just a quick question because you must know over the many years we've been here I respect your opinion.

Do you advocate the below for MG, specifically the RED?


Thanks and Happy Halloween. :pumkin:
Jo

Jo,

I am "OLD SCHOOL" and feeling older all of the time.

I tend to stick to the quote by Robert E. Lee.
A spouse may not honor/respect us and hurt us deeply. However, that does not mean we should not act with HONOR. I don't think the recommendation brings honor to Mgolfer. Just my opinion.

I understand the need to know all or most. But, frankly at the end of the day this marriage will work or it won't if and when Mgolfer decides it can work. His W has a decision to make, but since it is MGolfer we are talking to, in my book it is HIS decision. I would councel him to act with HONOR, and yes honor his commitments. I would councel him to seek information, but don't lower himself to lying as his W has done.

In the end, the final accounting is done by ourselves when reflecting on our life. What others think ceases to be of importance in the end of things.

Mgolfer has a long life ahead of him, he has children to rear, and he has many events to look forward to, no matter what his W decides.

So Jo there you have it from Old school. I don't care for the strategy. I must say however, that I don't find it objectable at all for Mgolfer to be checking her email, I just don't like traps much. I think he will receive the data he needs in due time.

God Bless,

JL

And ...


100% completely agree, JL.

Again, have a safe but scary Halloween. :pumkin:

JL,


I totally agree. This is why I told him in a previous post it's time to talk to her and be sure to spell things out very clearly.

MG,

At this point she has not choice, she is done hiding in the guestroom. It is time to face reality. You need to spell things out very clearly so there will be no wiggle room.

I think we can all assume she has been fired, but has she actually told you yet?

LC

As a last resort. I'm up for doing anything legal to obtain the information you need, but can't get because of your wayward spouse.

Hopefully MG won't need to...maybe he won't want to...but it should always be in the arsenal.

A less-than-forthcoming WS doesn't deserve honesty, anyway.

Wow, I’m gone for a few hours and things go crazy. So much to absorb. I have read all of the posts, but I am printing this entire thread to read everything again to make sure I am understanding everyone. I have arranged to be off tomorrow and I am thinking about picking her up, if she’ll go, and taking her to her parent’s lake cabin tonight and staying until tomorrow night. My parents can keep the kids until Sunday. I am thinking that getting away from everything and staying in a small cabin with no TV and no phone may keep us both focused and force us to deal with some things.

I will try to answer some of the questions raised so that you guys will be able to keep helping.

First, She has asked about the kids, but she seems content for them to stay at my parents right now. She says that she “just isn’t ready to face them yet.” I too am a little concerned at how selfish she has been. I miss the kids when they’re gone for the weekend. I have even stopped by to visit them a couple of times this week on the way home from work. I just told them that Mommy is sick and needs some rest.

Next, I too have been thinking that this may not be the first time. I may just be paranoid, but I still worry about it. She has been really conscious of growing older since our youngest was born. She has been dressing younger and trying to act younger for the past few years. The more I think about everything, I’m really starting to think that this whole affair is just another way for her to prove to herself that she is still young and getting her ego stroked that she could still attract a young guy. If that’s the case, it’s entirely possible that RRB is just the flavor of the year. I am definitely considering a polygraph if we indeed ever move to true recovery.

I’ll read everyone’s posts again before I do anything, but I really think that I need to lay some firm ground rules this weekend. I just don’t have it in me to keep muddling along for months and months while she recommits to this marriage. I plan to make sure she understands that I am committed to trying to recover our marriage, but that I need some things from her immediately for that to happen. Among those is complete NC with OB, a willingness to answer my questions about this affair with complete honesty, and a willingness for her be totally transparent in all areas of her life.

I need to see at least some movement in her over the weekend. I plan to be pleasant but firm all weekend. I want her to understand that I want this to work out, but I am not going to settle for just forgetting this ever happened and going back to the way things were before. At this point, I don’t want what we had before, I want something better and I’m not willing to settle for less just to avoid the dreaded D word.

I am going to apply one of the lessons my college golf coach taught me. He always said don’t let your emotions affect your next decision. For example, when you hit a bad shot, don’t let that anger affect your next shot choice. Separate yourself from the emotion before you pick your club and shot. The same for when you hit a great shot. Don’t let your excitement convince you to try something you’re not capable of pulling off. I am going to try to carefully consider my words and reactions and try to make sure it’s not my emotions talking, but that I think through everything before I respond. Wish me luck this weekend. I don’t know if I’ll be able to post again for a few days.

Good plan, MG71.

The isolated cabin is the ideal place for you two to get down to business.

Please add to your current or near-future requirements for your wife (and yourself) counseling with the Harleys. Here's their contact info:

MB - Harley Coaching Center

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639

Jo

I have not been to Marriage Builders in a few months....I'm glad I've been able to find this thread.

You have done everything almost perfectly to give your marriage the best chance to recover...

My story is below....my FWW and I are in the best place a marriage can be at....so in tune now, so in love, so much love for us, our family and our resiliantcy.

The point you are at right now is nothing short of an atomic blast going off, while you both were underground....and now you are popping out, to take a look at what is around....what has survived, what can be salvaged.

Your NEW marriage will be perceived by both of you totally differently, you will need to re-build foundations, with the knowledge of what was weak with it in the first place, and make the corrections.

But you will need to be an incredible warrior for a good part of 6 months.....mentally prepare for this. Again, PREPARE YOURSELF...continue working out, do some form of meditation, BE PROUD of yourself....many who have come here DID NOT respond to advice given and now, wish they could turn back time....this speaks of your character.

Let your wife breath.....establish boundaries....but initially let her breath. Believe it or not, from her perspective, this is just as hard....you may not really give a sh$t, but if you TRULY love her, then you shouldn't want to punish her.....she is doing much punishing of herself. Be her rock. Be her place to land softly, be her guiding light.

I did it. It takes time. My wife wanted nothing to do with me for several months.....she moved out.....now 3 years later....she thanks me for saving her, I am her hero....Marriage Builders guided me. And I am forever grateful.

God Bless,
MWIL

You have a good plan and keep up the good work. The golf analogy is perfect, use it to your advantage.

MG:

I pulled my curtains for LG thread up earlier today. IF you get a chance to read it, please read the first page.

Why? Because I was busted when OW called my BW.

My BW had the next two weeks off from work, and I'm self employed. So, I was able to stay out of the office for big chunks of the next two weeks.

What happened?

BW and I talked. We talked about the A and what had been going on for so long. Now, we had discovered MB three days before Dday, and it gave us the ability to TALK about the A in a manner that didn't exist in our M before.

What does this mean to you?

Your W has been staying curled up in a ball in the basement with NO ONE to talk to.

Time for you to go home. Time for you to STAY WITH HER.

Had the family dog died would you be staying far away from your W? No.

Yes, this is a self-inflicted wound that she has incurred, and in your eyes, the worst one she could have taken. Some have even recommended that you "Just look like your happy" and go about your life.

Nothing could be worse for you to show her right NOW. Should you be strong, confident and in control of your daily agenda? Not pining for her? Yes. Should you be doing things that show that she is important and that she can stay in your life, and that you are capable of forgiviness? Most definately.

Time to JUST BE WITH HER. Bring food. Bring Popcorn. Bring Movies. Sit with her. Let HER talk. You can follow up as previously described to and and then you can disengage after a little while and/or if she gets wound up.

"We can continue this later....Right now, just let me hold you."

I know your anger, I say it and experienced directly from Flamingo in the days after Dday. But I was WITH HER. I spoke with her and answered her questions/concerns/needs. That's unusual for waywards, yes, but I had one shot to get right. And if I missed it, Flamingo would have dumped me quick.

You have Mrs MG in the same place right now. But you HAVE TO MAKE YOUR SELF AVAILABLE TO HER!

Yes, you have to go to work. The kids are safe, you going to the cabin.

But no more time to the gym, or the bar, or extra time at work.

Time to BE WITH HER!

Saturday Morning Her world was whole. Monday Morning her entire world had exploded. And she had noone to turn to.

RRB.
Mr MG
FIL or MIL
Workmates.
Children.

All were GONE.

Time to BE BACK. And since you are the ONE WHO IS BACK, your the one who will start to fill her love bank again. Your the one who is throwing her all the lifelines. Your the one who can bring her back into the world, and help her find a NEW place in this world-Post dday.

Please do this. She may be angry at first, etc. So what. Be in her shoes for a few minutes. THe anger will dissipate if your available, and your willing to listen.

Be the lifeboat.

LG

I'm a little late to this party....

My BH emailed me from a fake account posing as OM.

I did not read the email, immediately blocked the email account (not knowing until later it was not OM but BH emailing me), and called BH and told him about the attempted contact.

I'm sure if I hadn't done exactly what I did I would FOR SURE be divorced right now. I thank God I did what I did.

So, in your situation, his fake email account and "dishonesty" were terrific for your recovery?

I'll bet it did your BH a ton of good, did it not?

I bet howtoheal gained a lot of trust that day and her BH knew she did indeed want to work on the M.

I agree with LG. Be the beacon.

Hello MG71,
I have been reading your thread from the first time you posted. I do not have the experience in a physical betrayal like most of the others have. But I can't help but wonder if she is fully aware that her job loss is directly the result of your action. I know she called you from a bar drunk and swore and yelled at you, but I wonder if she knows that you were the primary source. If she is not certain that you were the primary source, she may be in self protecion mode, trying to CYA.

You did a really good job of exposure. I know you called her and gave her seven hours to get home, but she may think that someone contacted you to obtain verification or whatever--she may think that you were not the "cause" of her exposure, but that you were just "correlated" to the exposure. Just a thought. It does not really affect recovery, but if my thought is correct, you may go through another anger phase when she realizes you were the cause, and not a correlation.

I have to love those coaches--always so grounded in reality and using baselining data to obtain success.

I'm in full agreement with LG on this one.

I don't think there's any inkling of romance in her emails and this was indeed just a sport screw. She disturbingly knew about "Meredith" since he didn't take the time to explain who she is so it is a little sick that she was knowingly screwing a kid who was engaged.

It would be interesting to see what the heck she was thinking if she knew he was engaged.

Pretty sad. But I get the impression that this was all just fun and games for both of them.

A wife who got tired of the same old same old from her H and the young guy fullfilled that.

No knock on you, MG. It's foggy thinking.

Could be a midlife crisis. Could be just being flattered by the attention of a younger guy. Could be poor boundaries.

We really don't know until she starts being honest. I have a feeling MG is going to have a remorseful wife really soon. But we'll see.

You're doing well, MG. Stay strong.

Well, it has been a crazy and exhausting weekend. But, I feel like we were able to lay the foundation for moving forward. I still don’t know if I’ll be able to completely get past all of this, but I am committed to trying my hardest. I’ll try to give as much detail as I can so that you guys can help me with where we’re at and where we go from here.

First, I didn’t really give her much choice about whether to go away or not. I packed a bag for both of us threw them in the car and told her to come on that I wanted to take her somewhere. She tried to protest, but it only took a little arm twisting to get her in the car. She figured out pretty quickly where we were going, but she was really fidgety and nervous for the entire hour ride. Neither of us really said too much so I had a little time to make a list in my mind of what I wanted to accomplish over the weekend.

I won’t give you a blow by blow of everything that was said, but the bottom line is I was able to get her to tell me the following things.

1. She did finally say that she was sorry, that she never wanted to hurt me, that she just felt so stupid and embarrassed, and that she had made a big mistake.
2. She also gave me a few details. They were intimate twice, once in her hotel room at a recent away game and once in his apartment the week before I found everything and blew everything up. This by the way is in line with what I already knew. She also swears that this is the first time anything like this has ever happened.
3. She swears that this was just a physical thing, that she had been feeling old and he made her feel young when they were flirting back and forth and that things just got out of hand. I’m not sure whether this makes me feel better or worse.
4. She did say that she wants to try to work things out between us, but that she’s just having a hard time dealing with everything right now. She mentioned how apparently everyone knew about what she had done and that she was embarrassed to have to face everyone. She said that she just wanted to hide in the basement and not come out for a while. She went on and on about how everyone that was important in her life, specifically her parents, her friends at work, and me, knew about this and that she didn’t know how she could ever face all of us knowing that we must think she’s stupid.


For my part, I tried to make her understand that I still loved her but that I was incredibly hurt and angry right now. I never allowed her to put any of the blame for this mess on me. Every time she tried to offer excuses, like how she was so lonely because we never saw each other due to our schedules, I always shifted the focus back to her and told her that while there were issues in our marriage that need to be addressed that none of them justify what she did and that the choice to have an affair was all hers.

It finally occurred to her to ask about how I found out about everything. I didn’t want to give up my sources, but I also didn’t want to lie to her. So, I told her that I found the emails and that I sent them to her bosses, OB’s dad, and OB’s fiancé. I told her that since then I had talked to OB’s dad and Meredith on the phone since then. She was furious that I was the one that told everyone at first. But, I told her that I would do whatever it took to fight for our marriage and that if she hadn’t been having an affair with a college kid that there would have been nothing for me to expose.

I know everyone said to keep my sources private, but I just didn’t want to lie to a direst question. How can I expect honesty if I’m not willing to give it? I didn’t tell her about the keylogger because she didn’t ask. I think she thinks I just stumbled across the email.

She seems to be in a better frame of mind this morning. The kids are home and she helped them get ready for school and interacted with them like normal. I guess we’ll see how things are going this evening. I feel like we made a lot of progress, but I still have a nagging feeling that I don’t know everything. I’m just not ready to fully trust her at this point. My plan at this point is to just be attentive to her for a few days and give both of us a break from the affair talk. I still have a lot of questions, but I can wait for a few days.

That sounds like a good start.

If you can accept the details she gives you at face value, great.

If you are more cynical, like I am, you're probably thinking about the "fact" that they slept together twice.

You just happened to catch them after the second one? If that's true, you are either the Sherlock Holmes of betrayed spouses, or she is one of the most inept wayward spouses ever.

MG,
A user named sickwithworry commented on one of my threads after I had posted that my wife confessed to sleeping with OM twice. He said:


The reasoning behind these words is sound. Its not guaranteed that she is lying about the frequency of the PA, but it is probable. Did you hear anything from OM's dad that indicated it was only twice? Two people in an affair will always find a time/place to have sex.

I would continue to do what you are doing by giving her breaks between the affair talks, but given the reasons she gave for her affair, I think a polygraph is in order for you to be sure this was the first time.

MG,

""I feel like we made a lot of progress, but I still have a nagging feeling that I don’t know everything. I’m just not ready to fully trust her at this point.""

Nor should you trust her at this point. Keep in snooping mode.

You did make a huge amount of progress. You are communicating.

As far as that "nagging feeling" - I STILL HAVE THE NAGGING FEELING. After over 4 years it is still there. I don't think any of the betrayed ever get rid of it. How can we?

Whether it was 2 times or 10. That doesn't really matter does it?

The nagging feeling is a part of the same baggage as the movies in our heads, the 8 x 10 glossies and the other IMAGINED obsessions we torture ourselves with. As time goes by the intensity of these things diminish.

Some of us need ALL the details. When we get them, maybe more than we bargained for, we will still have that nagging feeling. The only person that knows the entire truth is the wayward and OP. And even if we would get the whole truth, we would keep thinking there was more.

So take that "nagging feeling" and stick it in the same compartment with the movies and imagined scenarios and try to jam the compartment waaayyy back on the back burner of your brain.

Focus on the Plan A, try to empathize with her, avoid relationship talk for a while and be your old groovy attractive self.

IMHO

kirk

+1 on SF...

2 time or 10, doesn't matter. It also fits into the intel he has.

Speaking of Intel. I understand leading by example, but trust has to be earned. You have good reason to keep your sources secret until she re-earns your trust.

One good weekend is not enough.

MG,

I did post the below to Andrew:

He said, "if they say it happened once and once only and they are genuinely sorry about it, there's a pretty decent chance you are getting the truth. BUT, if they say it happened twice or three times, in my experience, it has nearly always been the case that it was going on for significantly longer and happened quite a bit more. They usually admit to twice, but not more because that way they can acknowledge that indeed it was more than once, but they don't have to admit the true extent of their relationship, sexual and otherwise, with the OP."

This was advice given to me by an old family friend, a 30 year divorce attorney/mediator and also a psychologist. When I was telling him my story, he interrupted a few times and said, "I bet she said this, right?" At one point he said he was looking at the ceiling and observing the track lighting. He said, "SWW, these things are just like the track lighting i am looking at, WW is following the script right down the track and can't get off. Here's what she's gonna say next..."

He was dead on. She later admitted to a 2 month fling with SF 5-6 times. I still don't believe that is the extent of it.

I understand the line of thinking that leads to , "1 time or 10 times; what's the difference?"

For me it was important. I wanted to hear the truth from her lips. I have not gotten it.

It was an essential element of re-establishing trust, and despite the difficulty for her to address these issues head on, it would have proven to me that she was willing to walk thru the fire to get that trust back.

I want to say, I have no idea whether your WW is being completely open with you. Maybe she is.

Thanks everyone.

SWW, that is exactly what I was thinking. I just have this feeling that I am still just getting bits of truth and a lot of BS. I understand the logic of 2 or 10 what's the difference. But, to me it's also a trust issue. How can I ever trust her again if she can't be totally honest with me about the details of her affair. I'm seriously considering asking her to take a polygraph, but I think it's probably best to give her a little break before I push her any further.

She is actually engaging with me and the kids today. It's almost like she's trying to act like nothing happened. I get this feeling that she thinks that after this weekend that it's past us and we can just move on and forget everything. She has a rude awakening coming if that's the case. I will give her a break for a few days, but this is far from over. I am unfortunately one of those that needs every detail before I can process everything and I won't stop until I believe that she has told me everything.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty much in agreement with you SWW. I think that I can handle whatever has happened if I jsut know that she is being totally honest with me.

i was the same way. somewhere around here is joseph's letter. maybe someone will post it. u are getting close to needing it.

Mgolfer,

One of the reasons it makes a difference between 1 and 10 is the following statement she made to you. Things may get out of hand once while flirting, but more than once and certainly 10 times isn't getting out of hand. It is suspension of guilt, morality, and vows in a predetermined way.

I am not saying you cannot forgive 10 times, but her reasoning doesn't seem to resonate with some of the things I think you heard from OM and his Dad.

I'll be frank with you. I have never figured out if it is better or worse for the WS to be "in love" with the OP. If it is love, then suspension of moral code and violating of boundaries makes sense in the context of this "in-love" feeling. It also brings up issues of if they love each other "where do I stand?".

However, if there was no love, and she just felt attracted to him and flirted with him and then started an affair, that leaves some deep issues with regard to even her most base motivations and boundaries. Yes, you don't have to fight "love for the OM", but you are looking at someone who thinks it is alright to violate their morals, vows, and marriage as long as they don't get caught.

The ever popular "I didn't mean to hurt you" suggests that as long as she could get away with it she would consider it.

I think counseling is a must. I think you need to see a real change in her perspectives on things, and to tell if they are you do need more details, not exactly of what they did, but of what she was thinking and how she justified her violating her boundaries and her vows.

Clearly there is something wrong with her perspective and for your marriage to recover her perspective MUST change. Otherwise you will never develop the trust that a good marriage has.

I would suggest you consider things from that point of view.

God Bless,

JL

The changes in her mood will astound you! Prepare for it! The changes in your mood will NOT be as perceived by you as much as you perceive your wife's mood changes.

I got the "truth" (whatever that was at the time) in a long draw out time period (3 weeks) and, in reality, I couldn't tell you where the truth started or ended....and my FWW at the time, probably couldn't either....fatasy does that to the affair partners....it's as thoght they have been hit with a big "STUPID" stick. Reality is, is that it takes time for the endorphines to wear off.

Ulitmately, (and this is VERY DIFFICULT) you need to toss out the fact that you have been married to this woman...for now, at least in the way you have always interacted with her.

Treat her (while maitaining boundaries)as just a friend....(quite a bit later on, you can get you answers to your questions, if you even want them at that time!)

You need to make her feel "safe"....she needs to feel assurred that she isn't going to live with someone who is going to bring this up all the time....Remember, you love her....and it is NEVER good to hold ANY resentments against those you love....this actually gets easier once YOU feel like she is starting to re-commit.

As you re-establish the friendship part, constantly take the pulse of where you are....it will feel erratic at first....but you should see a slow improvement in the overall relationship...this may take several weeks to months....You MUST LET HER initiate ANY relationship talk.....DON'T DO IT! Initially it will aid in her thinking that she will have to live with this hanging over her head for the rest of her life. And in reality, she will, but it can't be YOU who reminds her of that....it is YOU she needs to take comfort in....that CAN and WILL happen if YOU want it to.

Keep working on yourself, and NEVER underestimate what THIS BOARD can provide you with as assistance....it truly is invaluable.

God Speed,
MWIL

JL,
That’s my concern. I wouldn’t like it any more, but I could understand it better if there was some emotional element to this affair. I’m just having a hard time getting my hands around the fact that she could be with this guy multiple times and it just be a physical thing.

Also, I haven’t seen her going through anything close to the withdrawal described by many on this board. She moped around for the past week, but I get the distinct feeling that she was more upset about the consequences and embarrassment associated with her actions than actually missing this kid. Now, it’s like nothing happened and she’s ready to just move on with life.

She even tried to initiate SF last night. It had been over a month since we had SF and it’s like she thought we could just go back to the way it was a month ago. It really pxxxed her off when I turned her down. I simply stopped her and told her that “while I love you and look forward to reclaiming the physical part of our relationship that I couldn’t do this until she had a complete battery of STD tests run.” She stormed off yelling “I told you we used protection every time but I guess you still don’t believe me. You’re such an Axx.” I followed her to the basement and reminded her that I had no reason to trust her at this point. I told her that the only truth I had gotten from her in the past month was when I confronted her lies with facts and backed her into a corner.

She claimed that I was exaggerating. I reminded her that “it was only flirting” and then “it was only some kissing” and finally, when I presented her with undeniable facts, it was “okay, I slept with him once” and even that was a lie because it’s now twice. I have not willingly been given one bit of truth during this whole nightmare. I then brought it back to the issue of the night and told her that “I have no reason to believe that you used protection every time and therefore I have no way of knowing if you’ve been exposed to any number of STD’s because if this kid is like most college guys, he will sleep with anything that’ll spread her legs.” That was probably a little much, but I was getting angry myself at that point. She spent the rest of the night pouting like a child.

MWIL,
In the 17 years I’ve known her, this is all really out of character. She’s never done anything like this that I can tell. Is it possible for someone who has been a loving and caring wife and mother for all these years to suddenly turn into someone this cold. I understand the fog associated with most affairs, but is that fog still present when it appears to be totally physical with little emotional attachmetn. I just feel that there’s way more to this than I know at the moment because none it makes any sense to me. If anyone has any ideas, I’m open to trying anything at this point.

Doesn't it makes sense that this is completely about her? She's having a midlife crisis, and this hot young thing thinks she's still sexy. Can you imagine how much of an ego boost that must be? For probably one of only a handful times in her life, someone is putting her on a pedestal, even if it's just lies. And it makes her feel good to be wanted.

I think if she was scared of getting older, looking older, etc. and someone made her 'feel' young and beautiful, it could be a slippery slope that proceeded very quickly. She is probably not cold but the feeling of someone younger 'wanting' her overwhelmed her. She thought she would not get caught and it might help your marriage (yea right, but Waywards brains do not function normally). I think for your cause it is better that she does not seem to be in the fog and that she is embarassed and ashamed of what happened. That is one thing that keeps most of us from doing anything this terrible.

I think she is lying about the 2x part, but then again it does not matter if it were 2x or 100x. What matters is that she has not come clean and told you the truth. I see not telling the truth as not being committed to the marriage (however she is still in protect her marriage by lying mode). I had to have the Truth and if I ever find any little lie, I will be going straight to Plan D. JMO

mg71,

This was PERFECT. You are making her "OWN" her actions, and she is again feeling how far the consequences of those actions reach. This will help her understand just how bad she F'd up, and how badly it has damaged your relationship. IMHO, it doesn't hurt at all for her to get glimpses of your ANGER ... think of it as RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION.

Now to fit this in with the rest of your post:


First off, if this is truly "out of character" for her, then that bodes well for potential recovery.

I experienced a similar situation with my FWW ... a short term limited PA with no emotional attachment ... just the thrill and excitement of someone else paying her too much attention ... and I also got a good dose of the cold anger you are experiencing. There is one particular phrase that I still struggle with because it was so unnecessary and out of character for her to purposefully inflict such pain.

It is my belief that in these cases, this cold anger comes from the repeated and continued embarrrassment and remourse of having to face the consequences of their actions rather than the normal fogged out withdrawal from a more emotional A. They want so badly to just sweep all of this under the rug and get on with their lives, that they get extremely angry and defiant when they have to keep facing the consequences of their actions.

My FWW had led the life of the proverbial "good girl" without experiencing any real major life screw ups, and now that she had F'd Up BIG TIME, she was ill equipped to handle the consequences that were now RAINING down on her from multiple directions. Later that anger was channeled inward in the form of guilt as she began to take ownership of her actions, but originally she was looking for someone to lash out at, and I too became that convenient "a$$" just as you are now.

You're instincts are serving you well ... possibly better than an BH I have witnessed here at MB, but now is not the time to ease up and catch your breath. You will need to continue to challenge her anytime she trys to blame shift or repeat outright lies. The quicker she owns her stuff, the quicker her emotions will turn inward and real recovery can begin.

I struggled with the same issues you are for some time, but JustLearning spent quite a bit of time with me until I understood that for someone who truly made a "mistake", the measure of their character is how they react AFTER having made that mistake, rather than the lapses in judgment that led to the mistake.

FogFree (my FWW) and I now have a relationship comprised of two equal partners, rather than me defining myself by my past major life screw ups, while putting her on a pedestal of perfection.

“I told you we used protection every time but I guess you still don’t believe me."

This statement stood out to me when you posted it!!! If someone had sex only two time why would you say "Everytime" wouldn't you say 'Both times"???? Everytime makes it sound like more than two to me!!! But that is just how I processed that statement.

The big trouble with lies is keeping them straight...especially when you're angry and not thinking carefully. Sometimes the truth just accidentally slips out!

TJ/We could really get political with this statement...

But I won't do that his thread. /TJ

I agree with the others, this slip of the tongue was very telling (pun intended).

Absolutely!
Men get dignifed as they turn grey. Women get tired and haggard. Look at a commercial for a sports car. You might see a successful older man driving it, or a hot young woman. You'll NOT see an older woman driving the sports car. Our society does not allow women to age and maintain an allure of desire and envy.

Furthermore, men are visual creatures. Usually "attractive spouse" is a higher EN for men than for women. Women get wolf whistles and cat calls (or not) when they're young, and learn that this is a form of validation. Women hear men talking approvingly about females with huge ta-tas, or saying "I'd hit that". We hear men saying with disgust "What a fat cow!". We learn that looks and youth ARE important.

Then when the lines show up and the butt and boobs sag and the hairs turn grey and the belly pooches after delivering children and the flesh over the knees sags and varicose veins creep in and cellulite pops up... We're no longer hot and desirable and everything that is good about being young and female.

We become "just" a Mom or "just" a wife. We get lost in the shuffle. It's hard to adjust to - and I'm saying this as a woman who really doesn't give two hoots about looking good other than to be fit and clean. I don't color or style or highlight my hair, don't wear makeup, don't "do" my nails, don't own "cute" shoes. My lifestyle is not conducive to being fixed up. I'm fit, I'm fairly attractive, I'm clean, I have all my teeth and they're in good shape... And yet I struggle mightily with aging.

I miss the attention I got when I was younger. I miss that feeling of validation. I hear men talking and I realize that my glory days are past, though I'm barely middle aged.

So yeah. Having a hot young dude flip over her probably set your WW's head spinning. That was probably a HUGE rush for her. She felt young, vibrant, attractive, sexy - all those things that the media tells us women should be.

My FWH didn't go though any withdrawl from OW. It can happen. I consider it a blessing because witnessing a WS's withdrawl of a POS person sounds like torture from what I've read.


Not to add more stress to you mg71 but unless your wife has had her tubes tied or you have seen evidence of a recent menstrual cycle, you may want her to take a home pregnancy test ASAP. Just one more thing out of the way to give you some peace of mind.


And your WW knows this deep, deep down so just imagine how incredibly stupid she must feel. She does not want to admit this to herself.


The fog is still present because regardless of the motivation for the A the WS still has to cope with the fact that they choose to cheat. Most people get defensive even when they screw up a little bit and are called out on it so magnify an A a million times over and there you go...your WW can't handle the fact that she CHOOSE to act like a whore. Even though her A has been exposed she is still trying to do damage control. Her mind set is that while her A may have been bad, it wasn't THAT bad (assuming she can hide all the gory details from you and take them to her grave.) Your WW is pouting like a child because her mind is almost like that of a child right now. Children try to cover up and deny in hopes they don't get in trouble or at least in as little trouble as possible.

It will never make sense to you because there is no rational way to explain why otherwise smart/caring people could be so careless, reckless, pathetic and stupid. APs know what they are doing and they do it anyways. They know it can destroy their life and family but they do it anyway. I will never understand how waywards justify crap in their heads because when you objectively look at their actions (or even try from their point of view) there's no way to explain it. For the next coming weeks and months even when you tell yourself that there is no making sense of all this you will still find yourself trying to wrapping your brain around your wife's behavior and choices. At some point down the road you will have to accept that there is no logical explanation.

What happened with the email that you opened? Did it show as unread so she wouldn't suspect you reading her email?

What SHE was likely thinking: "A hot young dude flipping over me! I've still got "it". I'm still vibrant, attractive, sexy and sexy enough to turn on a young man!"

What HE was likely thinking: "Easy lay, with no strings attached. Something to do when my GF is not available. Plus, I'll have something on her that might come in handy later on if I need a favour."

There seems to be an assumption here that this really was no strings attached sex (i.e. sport f$%king as MyRev perfectly put it!:D)

If this was really all about a younger man being attracted to her while she went through a mid-life crisis, I would have expected that it would not have affected the marriage so thoroughly. I would have anticipated the wife to be doing OM on the side, but then coming home happy and chipper to her husband that met all of her other needs.

But MG71's wife had actually withdrawn emotionally from him and even told him ILYBNILWY line. That speaks more to the fact that she WAS emotionally invested in RRB as the new and preferred recipient of her feelings and affections.

Is it possible that the exposure was so nuclear that she literally can't fully process what has happened yet? Maybe the withdrawal will come later as her life settles down a bit. It just seems too convenient that there is no withdrawal considering her actions pre D-day.

MyRev,
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. It is certainly helpful to see that you dealt with this same kind of reaction that is so different from the normal “WS fog” described on MB and that your marriage has recovered. How long did it take for your WW to make that turn and for her anger to be focused inward?

For everyone’s information, I know full well that they were together more than 2 times. OB’s fiancé, Meredith, was a former cheerleader last year and she has talked to people she still knows on the squad and gotten a lot of details that she has graciously passed on to me. I was so hesitant to expose every thing to her, but it has turned out to be the best thing I’ve done. Not only was it the right thing to do, but it has given me an ally that has much more access to info than I could ever have. She has told me that they were getting together in his apartment about 2X per week for the past month. I already know that it’s probably going to take a polygraph or at least the threat of a polygraph to get the whole truth from her. In the mean time, I’ll continue to use the info I get to force more and more of the truth out of her and then I’ll demand the polygraph and give her a laundry list of the lies she has told since d-day as proof to why I need it to move forward.

Turtle,
I think you have hit the nail on the head as to what was going on in her head during this whole affair. She swears that it was only physical with no emotions, but I believe there were more emotions involved than she understands. She may not have developed any feelings for OB, but she certainly developed an emotional attachment to the feelings this attention brought out in her. I think that for the first time in many years, she wasn’t a mom and a wife but she was just a woman, a woman who was sexy and attractive. So much of her identity has always been related to her looks. In school, she was always the “pretty” girl. When we were dating, she was always dressed to the hilt no matter where we were going. She loved the attention she got from turning heads wherever we went. My biggest concern going forward is how can I be sure that she won’t do this again when the next young guy comes along and gives her a little attention.

Also, to answer a question, I reset the email to unread as soon as I printed it off. She knows I read all of the old emails, but she has no clue about the keylogger. She thinks she just got careless and left the email up and I saw it.

mg71,

Get as much info from Meredith as you can ASAP. She may be cooperative now but at some point she's either going to walk and not care if OB was screwing your wife or if she stays with Rah Rah Boy she will focus and their relationship and stop communicating with you.

She could be emotional addicted to the feeling she had thinking OB was into her for more than just her looks or sex. This kid was going off to medical school soon (far away?) and getting married. I doubt WW was really looking at any serious relationship with this kid.

mg71

"I could understand it better if there was some emotional element to this affair. I’m just having a hard time getting my hands around the fact that she could be with this guy multiple times and it just be a physical thing."


Why? Have you never seen a woman that you found attractive enough to want to do when you were single. Not marry just do. There does not have to be a mental connection. Such a connection being there or not, does not matter.

Just as the number of times they banged does not matter when looked at alone. How about instead an affair went on for before one found out. Two months or two years?


"I haven’t seen her going through anything close to the withdrawal described by many on this board."


The longer an affair went on causes withdrawal to take longer. Withdrawal usually takes six months. These are generalized statements. Some WW's can drop their OP without any sign's of withdrawal.


"She even tried to initiate SF last night. It had been over a month since we had SF and it’s like she thought we could just go back to the way it was a month ago. It really pxxxed her off when I turned her down."

WW's usually offer up SF to keep you from leaving, divorcing, exposing. They are confused. Trying to maintain the status quo. Smooth things over an act as if every thing is in the past.


"“while I love you and look forward to reclaiming the physical part of our relationship that I couldn’t do this until she had a complete battery of STD tests run.” She stormed off yelling “I told you we used protection every time but I guess you still don’t believe me. You’re such an Axx.” I followed her to the basement and reminded her that I had no reason to trust her at this point. I told her that the only truth I had gotten from her in the past month was when I confronted her lies with facts and backed her into a corner.
She claimed that I was exaggerating. I reminded her that “it was only flirting” and then “it was only some kissing” and finally, when I presented her with undeniable facts, it was “okay, I slept with him once” and even that was a lie because it’s now twice. I have not willingly been given one bit of truth during this whole nightmare. I then brought it back to the issue of the night and told her that “I have no reason to believe that you used protection every time and therefore I have no way of knowing if you’ve been exposed to any number of STD’s because if this kid is like most college guys, he will sleep with anything that’ll spread her legs.”"


Great way to get her to realize that she has not been honest with you. But until she is willing to admit this I would not bring it up unless she was to fight you on getting tested before STD testing.


"I understand the fog associated with most affairs, but is that fog still present when it appears to be totally physical with little emotional attachment. I just feel that there’s way more to this than I know at the moment because none it makes any sense to me. If anyone has any ideas, I’m open to trying anything at this point."


As I wrote earlier, there does not have to be an emotional affair to go with the physical affair. There can be an EA alone, PA alone, and both together. Fog can be there with either a EA or PA. Fog can evaporate instantly or take a year. Nothing is etched in stone.

Things seem to be moving in a good direction for you. Hold your course.

Not necessarily. It could just be her getting the excitement, and then thinking 'This (her marriage) is all I'm going to get? When do I get to be excited again? I'm stuck for the rest of my life.'

That's why I recommend that everyone incorporate rut-proofing into their marriage. Keep doing new things together, look up old friends, start new hobbies together, join clubs...just keep it fresh so she has something to look forward to.

No need for the polygraph. You know it was 2x a week and until she admits to this she is lying (not willing to work on your marriage). If you need all the details (rather than you just need to feel like she has stopped lying) then the polygraph is in order (if you need to know for fact you know everything about it, to know for fact she is not lying).


This is a very realistic fear to have. Unless she changes drastically, we could see you back here down the road. There is quote (from HNHN I think), "Men give love to get sex. Women give sex to get love." In my experience, it is a he77 of a lot harder for a woman to have NS attached $ex.

Before you mentioned that she was always the "pretty girl" I figured that much. OB met that admiration EN of hers and if he did it well then she felt an emotional attachment to him. It's probably one of her top needs. But, with this nuclear exposure she may be realizing how vanity has destroyed her life right now and how petty that really is.

Now if he was meeting the conversation EN then I'd say it would be harder to withdraw from because then she'd be thinking "oh he was my soul mate, he really understood me". I think the level of initmacy that developed in her situation wasn't as strong. She just LOVED to be physically admired. And it would still bring some level of emotional attachment. But withdrawal wouldn't be so difficult.

MG,
This is still ALL about her. By her calling you an a$$ it shows that she has absolutely NO CLUE of the pain that she has caused you and your M. Her pride and selfishness will keep her in that mind frame. And she'll never "get it" until she hits rock bottom...so let her. Let her feel every consequence of her actions, don't block any of them. Continue to show her that you care and want to work on things, but maintain your boundaries.

What it looks like is that she is sorry she got caught. She is going to look very bad in other people's eyes and that bothers her GREATLY (the admiration thing again). Right now that bothers her more than how much pain she has bestowed on you. She hasn't even glanced in THAT direction yet. I think IC (with the Harleys if possible) will get her to go there. She has got to humble herself and that may be the hardest thing for her to do.

Has she always been selfish? The center of attention because of her looks?

mg71,

I had to go back and reread some of our early threads, but this seems to be the rough time line:

D-Day and FogFree's recommitment was 7-25-07

NC was established 7-26-07

We begin MC on 7-27-07

FogFree starts to understand the depth of her betrayal through the month of August and confesses on 8-26-07 that she broke NC 7-27-07 (Right after our 1st MC Session) by texting OM, which was never responded to.

FogFree writes her complete confession letter to me, including all details of physical contact, emotional thoughts, subjects of phone conversations, etc. on 8-28-07.

I discover on 9-5-07 a secret "Hotmail" email account that she set up to re-establish contact on 7-30-07 for "closure". There appears to have been only 1 outgoing email to OM with no response from him.

After my severe blow-up on 9-5-07, FF sees just how close she came to losing everything and the deception FINALLY ceases. From 9-5-07 to date, she has been fully recommitted, transparent, honest and the nearly perfect FWW.

If our experience is any kind of valid time line, I would expect that yours would last a little longer since you are dealing with a longer and more physical A.

During this roughly 6 week period, FF was basically remourseful and working on us, but she would occassionally revert to the anger that you are experiencing when confronted with new details or she tried to blame shift or excuse her behavior.

Fo us, it took roughly 6 weeks for her to "own" her stuff and recommit unconditionally, which included about a half dozen MC sessions of varying benefit.

If you want to read some of our early trials, here's a link to FogFree's original thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=145455&Number=1932556#Post1932556

MG:

You had a GOOD weekend.

Your WW is moving along the path, like many WW.

Is she in WD? Probably.

Was it more emotional than Sport ****edit**** Yes. RRB has been working on her for 3.5 years. At first, it was just a young man who thought your WW was attractive. She probably has faced young men like this for YEARS, considering her position, and what she has been doing. But, for some reason, RRB got in. He got her to "turn the corner". The pressure from RRB probably increased after his fiance left the school last year. That pressure, was returned, slowly but surley by your WW. Yes, it started because he was the head male cheerleader, or assistant, or something else. But they had a reason to talk, and it expanded, slowly, the barriers falling one by one.

You saw it from the opposite side. Slowly but surely, your WW pulled away from you. You KNEW when the SF started, That's when she really pulled away and became somewhat nasty.

So, it wasn't a SportF. At least not for your WW. Did she do it before? No. You saw the change in her. Where she went from being your W to being this alien. That was new. If she was banging others? You would have seen the same type of actions on her part.

Someone recommended "Josephs letter" Please read Pep's Notable posts thread here> Pep's good stuff

Time to hand that to your WW. She needs to see WHY she needs to talk to you.

Then give her the questions that you might have, as I recommended earlier. That gives you the place to start, and then, since she is interested in sweeping this under the rug, (wouldn't you?) she knows what she has to clean up.

I have more, but have to run....

LG

Yes! She has always been the center of attention. She has her selfish moments, but she's not always that way.

I think you're right that at this point she's sorry she got caught. We'll see if she ever truly "gets" what she's done.

Thanks for the link.

I hope you're right that this is the first time anything like this has happened. I am reasonably sure it is because she never acted this way before.

I have been compiling a list of all the questions I need answers to. Would it be best to give them to her a few at a time starting with some of the "easier ones?" I don't need to know every detail, but I do need to hear enough from her to make me confident that she is being honest.

By the way, our little exchange last night seems to have shook her a bit. I don't know if it was the STD discussion, the comment about OB just looking for and easy lay, or the fact that the offer of SF didn't "make everything alright," but she has moped around all day today.

Has she mentioned her future...like her job and what she is going to do? Also, I wondered about a support system for her (other than you)? Does she have a friend or someone who would listen to her (not someone who will pump sunshine where the sun deosn't shine) but just someone for her to talk to?

From the picture you have given, your wife has taken to the house for safety of being embarrassed and not having to face the reality of what people will say about her. Does she just plan to stay there....LOL???

How are your children? I know they are young but just curious?

MG:

About this:


Well, DUH. She's the beatiful blonde, right?

Lots of SF, or a big smile, was all she ever needed to fix a problem, right?

My BW had us in the Dr's office within three days of Dday to get the test. Ouch. But needed by BW for her piece of mind. Mrs MG's smile doesn't get her out of that, does it?

Comment about the easy lay? Harsh, but true. She knows it, Never expected YOU to say it to her. But you have. And you don't have to say it again.

Then, you rejected her advance. When your the "hottie" that SHOULD never happen. It's like she grew a second head. This REALLY hurts.

But I recommended that you spend time with her. Be her lifeboat. Yes, difficult choices have to be made, and your the one who gets to make them, since she is the one who sunk the ship. Help her into the boat. Let her know that she is welcome in the boat. But she's going to have to work to stay in the boat.

And then this:



You preface the conversation, with a statement like this: "We need to explore what happened to start the affair, and what happened during your A. I have a number of questions. I have started writing them down. I want you to know, that by writing them down, I'm trying to find out what I need to know. And I want you to know where the end is at. I don't want you to feel that we will never get past this. That we, or I, will be stuck. Honesty will allow the questions to end. I will have answers. You will have learned how your guard was weakened. We will learn a better way to communicate. I don't want all the answers in one night. I want to talk, weekly, or twice a week about this, as we explore the questions. The rest of the week, we work together as a family. That's all I hope for. We CAN do this."

MG, what can your future look like? Last night, a rerun of Dr. Phil was on. An unrepentant lying cheating husband was on stage with his BW. Flamingo was interested in what was going on. This WH, would only admit to what they had info on him about. Otherwise, he continued his lies. The point? Flamingo, this morning, at breakfast, said: "LG, do you know WHY I liked that program last night? Because you weren't like that. You told me everything, right from the start, and it allowed me to start rebuilding trust."

MyRev got it after a month. Flamingo got it the first day. You might get it in three weeks. You might not EVER get it. But then you know what to do if you don't get it. You divorce her. Otherwise, you let her know what you need and what your timetable is like. And then you stick to it.

And plan A in the meantime.

LG

Now you should also make sure she knows you want to TRY to work through this. She will also have to WORK through this and that it won't come easy. She totally eradicated all of your trust and has to EARN it back. It will be a long, hard road but MG wants to change for the better to make the Marraige work. Mrs. MG also has to want to change (and prove changes through her ACTIONS).

I think in your situation, the ONLY way you will ever be able to move ahead with any peace of mind, is if you get your WW to take a lie detector test.

...and the test should include a question about whether or not this was her first A. The way that your WW is acting now, I suspect that it wasn't.

It has been absolutely crazy since I posted on here yesterday. I think WW had a break through last night. I am trying not to get my hopes up, but I’m excited about her progress. After I put the kids to bed last night, I went to our bedroom to read and watch the election coverage. She came in about an hour later and I could tell she had been crying. She asked me why I was staying with her. I told her that I still had hope for our marriage and that I intended to fight to make it better than it was before.

She said “I just don’t see how you’re ever going to get over this. You made it clear last night that you think I’m a lying tramp and I can see in your eyes how hurt and angry you are.” I walked over to her and put my hands on her shoulders and told her “ I am angry right now. You have betrayed me, you have betrayed our kids, and you have done all of that over someone fling with a college kid. But, I know deep down that I can forgive you and get over the affair. What I won’t be able to get over is your continued lying.” I also told her that the thing that hurt the most was how she continues to disrespect me by continuing to lie to me now.

I led her over and sat beside her on the bed and decided to just lay everything on the table and see how she responded. I told her the following:

1. I still love you and I know that we can recover and move on stronger than before.
2. I know way more about this affair than you think I do, but I still needed to hear those things from her so that I can start to trust her again.
3. The only way we could ever recover was if she was willing to be totally honest and answer ALL of my questions about the affair.
4. I need for her to commit to NC with OB for life and make her life completely transparent.
5. She needs to get into IC and find out how she could allow this to happen.
6. She needs to be willing to commit to MC for as long as needed to start rebuilding our relationship.
7. I need to hear her apologize frequently and sincerely for as long as I needed to hear it.


She agreed to start by answering my questions. I told her that I had been writing them down and that I would give her a few questions every week and we could pick 1 night a week to discuss them so that we could both get a little break from all of this. I then asked her if she was willing to tell me as much as she could remember at the moment so that I could match that to what I already know and therefore give me some hope that she was serious.

She told me that she was really sorry for hurting me and that she just felt so stupid and embarrassed for getting herself into this mess. She then told me about how they had always been “flirty” with one another, and that it started that way again in August when practice began, but that it started to go way further than before since OB’s fiancé, Meredith, wasn’t there this year. She said that the flirting got more and more suggestive and that they started emailing each other and texting each other things that were sexually suggestive and that it made her feel like a college kid again. She said that he kept pushing the envelope farther and farther and that she went along because she liked how it made her feel. She said that it eventually led to some kissing after practice and OS in her car. She said that it eventually moved on to intercourse at an away game about a month ago and that since then she had been going to his apartment after practice a couple of times a week for SF. She still swears that they used protection every time.

I thanked her for sharing all of that with me. I also told her that as much as I want to believe her that I still need for her to go have the STD testing done. She agreed to go to her Dr this week.

Am I getting my hopes up too much, or is this really as big a breakthrough as I think it is? Everything she told me matches the info I have already gotten so it appears to be the truth. I want to believe her when she says that she wants to stay and make things better and it certainly seems that she is trying. But, I still doubt that her attitude could change this much so fast. I guess I’m just not ready to fully trust her yet. This was a good first step. I gave her three questions that I have for her to answer and we agreed to talk about it Friday night. I told her that every time she answers a question honestly that she adds one more brick to the wall trust and that over time I truly want to trust her again. I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes.

Excellent. The fog is lifting!

Recovery is hard. Recovery is hard. Recovery is hard.

Did you know recovery is hard?

Still a long ways to go, but definitely a breakthrough!

This is all good so far. You are doing way better than average around here.

Dr. Willard Harley says that we should never trust our spouse 100%.

I suggest you attend the next MB Weekend and work through the home study course you get at the end.

Awesome.

I think I'd call it a bridge of trust instead of a wall.
I know, nit-picking.

I think she's sincere and I think your goals are realistic.

This is good news but remember this is a marathon not a sprint.

You are at the top of the rollercoaster but there are many more drops on the ride.

Processing the mental "porn movies" of a WW and OM takes time. A long time. Vent here when it happens.

Anger is a recurring phase.

Six months out of D-Day is usually a rough time.

As PM says, recovery is hard.

Look for pro-MB councilors.


Doubtful.

The signs sound positive but there is so many ups and downs still to come. Some days you will think you feel half way "normal" and then BAM...a trigger or some thought that just put a piece into place that you hadn't even thought of before. When your W goes for her STD tests she will feel like dirt but it will be one more thing to humble her and help her understand the seriousness of her messed up choice. She may want to speak to her physican about anti-Ds.

Has anything transpired with her job?

This is a big breakthrough and you have reason to get your hopes up. But be careful as everyone has said every day brings its ups and downs.

Yes, what's the deal with her job?

MG,

""But, I still doubt that her attitude could change this much so fast. I guess I’m just not ready to fully trust her yet.""

If you think about it, what other option does she have?

And that you still want to make the M work and make it better than before makes it too good to be true, but amazingly that is what you want, SO SHE IS GETTING ANOTHER CHANCE!!

So she has come to the realization that she has just dodged the big D bullet. PRAISE GOD!!

I am sure it is all sincere and hopefully she will throw herself headlong into recovering the M.

This is all a good thing!

kirk

She was fired last week upon exposure. Her boss sat in her office while she packed up and escorted her off campus.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and the help. I'm sure this is just the beginning and I'll likely need lots of help in the days to come.

I think I'll go home now and try to avoid any affair talk for the evening and just relax.

Maybe she could start working at cheerleader school / tiny tumblers / gymnastics for grade school age children. That should be a safe work environment while you guys work through this. Just an idea in case she brings up the "what am i going to do?"!

That actually sound like a great start. She admitted to alot more info than one would expect. She needs to keep busy though...especially during the times you are away at work. Maybe tag along or something. I would also ask the father of OB to get the pictures back that she sent his son.

MG:

WOW!

That's great. Is she over it? Out of the fog? No. But it's clearing.

Stay available. You gave her WHAT she needed. And you gave her WHAT she NEEDED to do.

And it wasn't that bad a list.

#7? Just so you know, I still apologize to Flamingo, even after 40 months from Dday. THere are just some things that need to be said. THere may be a day when you don't need to hear it. Hope for that day.

Her description of her descent in the A? Typical. And a start. It might be all you need. The details that YOU need are based upon YOUR need. If you need more, than you need more. However, your questions may not be based upon just the physical aspects of the A, when, where and what did you do, but may be about:

How did RRB get in?
What did do RRB that was special?
What will Mrs MG do to avoid going down that road again?

Please note, you may NEVER get a satisfactory answer to the question of WHY?

WHY did you want to destroy our family?
WHY did you try to throw it all away?
WHY did you break your vows?

Until your truly into recovery, and the wayward one is fully on board, the wayward can not answer that question to the betrayed spouse with any reasonableness. Why? Because the wayward one has to look at themselves with a criticalness that is difficult even for folks who haven't been wayward. Being wayward makes it even more difficult. I had my A because I could, and I didn't protect myself from the advances of others, NOR stop my own advances on others that might have been receptive.

I know where the line is now. I have established that boundary. Flamingo knows this too. She knows that she can't stop me from having another affair, but she knows that I WAS a person capable of one, to a person who she feels ISN'T going to have one. And that is the sea change in me that she recognized soon after dday.

Your sitch is different than mine, but there are some parallels. I offer the above so that you can see some success stories.

Someone proposed that you go to a MB weekend. I recommend it as well. They have them in Orlando regularly. THey are not too expensive (if you can drive to them), but they can be real eye-opener for the wayward.

Also, it has been recommended that you pick up Surviving An Affair. I think you have ordered it, it will become your roadmap to recovery. His Needs, Her Needs is a must read as well. Understanding Emotional Needs, or EN's around here, can help you rebuild your relationship with your WW.

LG

bump to see if Mgolfer is stil around

Hurt,
I am around. It's just been kind of crazy and a little overwhelming these past few days.

Is it normal to feel great one day and then the next day just being so angry that you want to explode? She has been doing everything that I told her I needed, but there are just days where even when she’s done everything right I think about her and OB and just get furious. I have tried to hide it and not just continually bash her but it’s been hard.

Things have been going pretty well since last week. We had an actual “date” on Friday night with absolutely no relationship talk. We also had a great discussion on Saturday when she answered the 3 questions I gave her last week. I am still having trouble actually trusting her answers, but maybe I’m just being suspicious. Here are the questions:

1. Was this the first time that you have cheated or has there been other times? She swears that this is the first time, but did admit that she has always flirted with the male cheerleaders on her squads. She admitted that this wasn’t appropriate and it obviously put her in a bad position which opened the door for her affair.
2. Did you ever bring him to our house? She told me that he had never even been close to our house. She said that they did have OS in her car, but that every other time they were together was either in her hotel room on away game trips and in his apartment on campus.
3. Have you been in contact with OB since I confronted you and demanded that you come home from your last away game trip? She said that she had talked to him several times on her cell phone over that weekend, but that she had not talked to him since she was fired. I then asked if she had contacted him by any other means since then to which she admitted to sending him emails. She said that he had ignored her emails since then and that he had only responded to a couple just to tell her that it was over and to leave him alone before he got in more trouble. She then offered to give me her password so that I could check the emails for myself.


I have been checking the keylogger ever day and I haven’t found anything other than the emails that she told me about. She finally started putting things together and asked about how I found their emails that I exposed to everyone. I didn’t want to lie, so I told her about the keylogger. She acted a little hurt, but I reminded her that she had been lying to me for a long time and that the keylogger was the only way I could get the truth. That seemed to put things in perspective for her.

I also got her a new cell phone on Friday. It’s on my account so that I can look at all of her usage and has a GPS so that I can track her movements. She hasn’t even thought that I may have ulterior motives, she’s just ecstatic that I would “trust’ her enough to get her a phone. I have looked at her usage every day since she got the phone and I have only found calls to her mother, her sister, and to a family friend that we socialize with as a couple.

The other good news is that the results form her STD test came back this morning and all of them were negative. The pregnancy test was also negative. I guess this opens the door to resuming SF which has been nonexistent for the past 2 months. I am nervous about this at the moment, because every time I even start to think about SF I see OB and get angry. Any ideas on how to reclaim what is mine and get over this anxiety?

This is what we refer to as the emotional rollercoaster. I still have days that set me off and we get into a huge fight.


It is hard to trust someone after what you have been through. I still find mysefl wondering if I know the truth or some version 'spun' by WW. The answers you get may never make sense but it is good that she is telling you at least what seems like the truth (she admitted to the emails you already knew about).


This is good since the keylogger is out now. I would suggest not telling her that you are checking up on her this soon. She needs to earn your trust, IMO.



This is very tough. SF is very high on my EN, so it helps me to feel better. However, it is still hard to not think of OM. Someone said to replace painful memories with better ones, and that is what I have been trying to do.

I am so glad to hear that things are moving in the right direction. Being that I have been the BS as well as the WW I think I have a unique perspective. I think you did an excellent job in handling this in the beginning and putting your foot down and having specific rules for recovery have given your wife a new found respect for you.

As far as regaining the sexual relationship with her...GO VERY SLOW. I certainly realize that you have needs and that you want so badly to reclaim what is rightly yours. From a BS standpoint, be prepared for very vivid flashbacks of the WW and OB. I know that they played over and over like a bad movie in my mind for a long time. My husband was totally understanding and gave me all the space I needed. From a WW standpoint....it was hard to return to a sexual relationship with my spouse because I fought feelings for the OM for a long time. Your wife almost seems that she took a male perspective of this relationship with the OB. Unless she is acting very well....there doesn't seem to be as much emotional attachment to him....only the physical aspect. In some ways that is good. It is much easier to get over that than when you are completely engulfed in a romantic affair.

Try to find out from your wife how she feels about resuming sexual activity. You may find that sex can be more intense and more frequent....almost like a renewed honeymoon phase. I wouldn't recommend planning anything huge that puts alot of pressure on either one of you at this point. Let it happen over time and then perhaps in several months....plan a romantic getaway for the two of you.

Good luck and if I can ever be of help to you during this recovery period.....please just ask!!!

One thing I would caution you about is moving too quickly back to NORMAL. I know when I was the betrayed spouse it was so easy to do that. My H wanted that more than anything. He was totally remorseful...never once looking back after D-Day. He had wanted for a long time to stop it and had no idea how to do it without making the OW mad and her telling. I just wanted our lives to be normal so bad. I don't think we allowed enough time to process it, work on the things that were wrong, etc....I think that do that so fast led to the events that ultimately led to MY CHOICE to be a WW. I will never blame his affair on me deciding to have an affair also. But after much counseling and soul searching I did realize that there was much resentment and heartbreak that I had not dealt with that led me down the road of infidelity myself. Enjoy the good times but also spend time really working on the things that were obviously wrong in the marriage. It will be well worth it in the long run.

You have done everything right. Would that other BS's would follow your example. So, many are very reluctant to heed that advice here and their WS's A go on much longer and usually go much deeper underground.

You've done a very good job. Your recovery is well on its way and the feelings you are experiences are normal for where you are.

Do work on the MB home study course even if you can't or don't plan to attend the MB weekend. It will help your recovery along...although it is hard work. No pain, no gain is usually the way things work with this stuff. It will be worth it.

MG,
Sounds like things are heading in the right direction. Also your feelings are normal...one moment good, the next moment you want to tear her a new one...all normal. That's why R is so hard. You will have to sort through every emotion that there is and then you are going to have to DEAL with them. You can't stuff them because they won't go away that way.

Angry outbursts are no good, but you can discuss your anger without LBing. Telling your WW how you feel opens up communication and brings intimacy back. The key is that you have to do it in a non-punishing way. Feelings aren't right or wrong they just are, so whatever it is you are feeling you don't have to justify it. Just explain that you are feeling hurt or anger or sadness, etc. You cannot control her reaction to what you tell her. You just do it calmly and honestly. Talking about it to her DOES help YOU. But at first she will have a tough time hearing it.

Images in your head eventually lessen, but for the time being they will be vivid and you will get angry when they "appear". My suggestion is to tell yourself to stop thinking about them and immediately switch your thoughts to something else. From what I have read on thought conttrol is that you should not allow a thought to continue for more than 30 seconds or the emotions that come with that thought will also surface. It helped me.

R is hard. I know you have heard that. Most of the cr@p falls in YOUR lap and you have to deal with it. No matter how good your WW is doing, she cannot open you up and take the pain away. It's unfair but true. The BS definitely gets the raw end of the deal. However, you will be able to look in the mirror and know that you are doing something that is respectable and honorable. And your efforts can lead you to a better M. Hang in there.

Positive signs of improvement and everything you are feeling is normal. As for the SF, don't feel the need to rush or actually do the deed. Maybe something like a back rub or a hot bath or pop in a movie and do some kissing on the couch and see what happens from there. If you start thinking about OB or don't wish to go any further then you can always stop but try to control any outburst. She will know why this is difficult for you and hopefully be understanding. You can tell W that you need more time and reassure her that you are trying.

I've posted a few thoughts on this...I wish I had the time to find them now.

Basically, I recommend plowing her like a porn star.

Do what you need to on the exterior to make things seem normal enough, but on the inside, keep it very impersonal. Use her for your own purposes.

Repeat as necessary.

I find myself doing this even now. Well, not NOW.

Goodbye mushy lovemaking, hello XXX-rated pornography.

Added with;


Krazy, your "life long character", as you claim it, is no way to treat your wife in recovery, nor is it any way for mgolfer to treat his and still successfully recover his marriage. Your "life long character", as you claim it, of keeping it impersonal, based on your logic is likely why your wife sought to have her needs met elsewhere.
Think about it, not a good plan of recovering intimacy in IMO.

agree 100%

I'm talking about modifying an internal thought process to help deal with emotional trauma during SF. For a long time, I could hardly function without jumping through such mental hoops.

Those two quotes are completely unrelated. Cheating is a despicable act. What I proposed is more like a survival technique. I wasn't trying to be funny.

It's worked for me, and the first time I posted this idea, I got a decent amount of positive feedback.

100% agree! So is treating your wife like a porn star!



I would recommend finding new techniques that lead to intimacy. That's the purpose of MB as I have been tought.

mgolfer is working successfully within the MB principles of recovering his marriage and doing a great job. Resorting to fantasy will not build intimacy, it will create just the opposite.



Then I guess treating wives as porn stars is not "out of character", as you would say, for more than just you.

Please. My W likes it.

It's only during sex. It's not like I'm treating her like a hooker all the time.

Plus, it's not even necessarily physical. It may only be something that happens inside the head of the BS during SF.

As long as that train of thought ends at the O, no harm no foul.

Krazy,
I think I found it.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2058426&fpart=6

I have read many things as to how to approach this. This is but one of many. However, I agree that treating your wife like a porn star is despicable, but agree with the survival technique. I would say it is more like a distraction to keep the brain from flashing to the affair. What Krazy experienced was much worse than most of us here, his 'distraction' seems a little extreme. But if you had those pictures in your head, it would take something extreme to black them out. It is like when you start thinking negative thoughts (of the affair), you are supposed to try to replace those thoughts with good thoughts (of your marriage).

This is assuming FWW is willing to be treated like a porn star-- whatever that means. Sounds despicable. If I were a FWW, I'm thinking I'd be like wait a minute, I was wrong, but this is worse. Just because a FWW is remorseful and is wanting to recover and restore her marriage, doesn't mean she has to be submit to degradation. Sorry, I ain't buying that one.

I couldn't get the link to work, but thanks for trying.

You seem to get my point. It's not a revenge thing, it's all about using a certain mindset as a distraction to help avoid triggers during SF.

Whatever works, as long as nobody is hurt.

When I said "treat her like a porn star", I didn't mean by doing specific things, or doing things in a certain way.

I just meant that, in a BSs head, it can help to think of the WS as nothing more than some anonymous piece of tail.

Done properly, the WS would likely have no idea what was happening.

There's nothing degrading about it. Certainly nothing like when a WS fantasizes about the OP during sex with the BS.

What if it is part of Just Compensation? Also, I think it is more of a WW thing b/c after they have earned the Former in FWW, there will be no need for the distraction. I think porn stars have a lot more dignity than waywards (they don't lie, cheat, sneak around, etc). How about just saying "Think happy thoughts when it comes to SF". Distract yourself from thinking about OM.

With all due respect, people, there was a thread not too long ago concerning "reclaiming the WS through intense SF"

Dame PepperBand even said she reclaimed her H like a "cowgirl riding hard a wild stallion" or words to that effect. Melodylane agreed along with many other vets.

Plus Krazy is speaking from an internal thinking of the partner as a porn star. Not actually physically treating her like one, although from that previous reclaiming thread the gist was to DO IT!

IMHO

kirk

Okay, gotcha.

K71:

You had a shot with the "treat her like a pornstar"

Until this:


And THAT is the dangerous part,

And your anonymous POT senses it from a mile away.

That is SO AGAINST MB principles.

Eyes open. If your uncomfortable with SF with your wayward or newly (F)wayward spouse, then you need to talk about that with the other person. Why you are uncomfortable. And what you two can do together to get past those things.

The wayward one has some issues to address as well.

One way to reclaim your wayward spouse IS to have very active SF with them. (Note: get those STD tests first...) Especially men. But if you are going thru the motions, you know it and your partner will know it. And that doesn't work with the MB principles.

LG

Really? She likes this...???

Well, the [censored] has hit the fan once again. I got a call from WW yesterday afternoon and she was crying uncontrollably and begging me to come home. She wouldn’t tell me what was wrong; she just said “it’s too terrible to talk about on the phone.” When I got home about 10 min later, I found her curled up in a fetal position on the sofa still crying. It took me a good 15 min to get her to calm down enough to tell me what was going on.

Apparently, WW had allowed RRB to take some pictures of her that were, well let’s just say “graphic” if you know what I mean. It seems that he had sent these to some of his buddies, who sent it to some of there friends, and so on until these things have been going all over campus for the past couple of weeks. The university called WW yesterday to tell her about what was going on. According to them, a female student received an email containing the pictures and was upset enough to inform school officials. They have been investigating since Tuesday and have sound that these pictures have been forwarded to over a 1000 students.

I’m sorry to say that I didn’t handle it too well. I spent the first 5 minutes yelling at her and asking her how she could be so stupid and then I left for a couple of hours because I just couldn’t stand to look at her. I finally calmed down enough to go back home. I called my mother and had her pick up the kids from daycare and went back to face the music. She was still huddled on the sofa crying. I apologized for yelling at her and asked her if there were any more things that she hadn’t told me that were going to jump up and bit us in the a$$. She swears there’s nothing else, but who knows at this point. I know she probably needed me to hold her and tell her that everything would be okay, but to be honest, I just didn’t want to. I wanted her to hurt as much as I am.

I really need some help, but I don’t even know what to ask at this point. Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this new bombshell?

I think you handled it just fine. She deserved to be yelled at.

Frankly, there is only one thing to do here...because trust me, this will eventually find its way to your kids. Move far away. If you live in New York...try California.

If you haven't reached your limit, and you're still serious about recovery, could you even consider the possibility of moving somewhere else? Preferably another state. Put some distance between your family and all this, this, um, stuff.

Sorry to have to say this, but if they end up wide-spread on the internet (which is likely), you may want to consider retaining an attorney proficient in IP (Intellectual Property) Internet law.

Jo

I hope Meredith got a copy of the pictures, too. If, after all this, she marries that sorry donkey she's certainly going to get what she deserves.

There's not really a lot you can or should do. She's the one who made the stupid decision to let RRB take the pics. She's the one who has to walk around town wondering who has seen the pics. This is just another lovely opportunity for her to suffer the consequences of her actions.

Regarding moving, I think it should be considered but you guys should POJA a decision like that.

Regarding whether or not you want to keep trying to recover this marriage, I'd say be sure and take your time. Don't make any big decisions for six months post D-day. You may be certain you want to throw in the towel one day and filled with hope and optimism the next.

The FWW should have ZERO say in this. Zero. If he wants o move, they go. Period.

And he should do things to minimize the impact to both him and his children. He is the one that has to walk around town with the woman that did this. He is going to be talked about too.

MG,

Definitely, DEFINITELY make sure that Meredith receives the photos.

You might condsider sending them to RRB's father, too.

There's no strategic reason.

If hundreds or thousands of people are going to see them anyway, why shouldn't two of those people be the ones that RRB cares about the most?

****EDIT****

I would advise not to try to do anything about removing the pics from everyone who got them. You'd never be completely successful. They will quickly fade into obscurity if you do nothing. If you make a big deal about them, they'll get forwarded to even more people.

Rah-Rah Boy needs something very bad to happen to him.

It's one thing to be the OM when she's a willing WW...it's another thing entirely to do something like this to her.

Yeah, she agreed to the pics. Irrelevant.

If anyone did something like this to my wife or daughter, I'd make them suffer for it.

Not by "living well", either.

This guy needs a serious lesson in integrity!

I believe I would let his father and his fiance know about this. The fiance definitely needs to know what kind of scum she is dealing with.

As for trying to get those pictures off of the internet...forget it. Your only hope is to leave it alone and hope that time will keep them in the never again visited past.

WHAT?

when she agreed to have these graphic pictures taken by a college kid she assumed the problems that come with it. I know if I don't want gossip to spread, I am not going to share something with a big mouth. If I don't want naked pictures out there, I am not letting a college kid take them.



Hmmm...why would you make someone suffer for this...but not for screwing your wife? I just don't get it. A picture...as bad as it is, is NOT as bad as the affair.

Maybe MG71 would like to email RRB's yearbook photo and personal information (name, address, email, etc.) to a few of us who would be willing to "spread the word".

agreed.

The wife was a willing partner in the affair, but not this.

I get your point. I say toss him into a friggin Sweeney Todd meat grinder for the A alone.

She willing gave her consent to have the pictures taken. One would have to be living in a cave to not know the potential ramifications of taking such pictures.

Both are culpable, IMHO.

Oh, sure - if he wants to make moving a condition for his working w/her to recover the marriage, he has every right to do that.

I was more thinking that WW would be wanting to move, as she's the one folks are whispering about and pointing at. If WW wants to move but he doesn't, due to his job, the housing market, or other reasons then I think POJA is appropriate. Normally I'd be saying "Move! Move! Get far away from OB!!" but OB isn't going to stay in town.

Mgolfer,

Well you have a lot of opinions permit me to offer you some actions.

1. See a lawyer about public distribution of photos without written consent.

2. Have the University call RRB and his father. He could get suspended for this and it would be the end of his medical career. Posting nude pictures is not a crime, doing so without the permission of the subject is career threatening.

3. If anyone is going to go chasing photo's it should be he and his Dad.

4. You may well have a suit possibility against the family.

Finally, you knew she was dumb when she did this. Now you know how dumb. However, this unintended consequence while satisfying to some here, is NOT what she set out to do. This is going to hurt her more than anyone.

You need to decide if recovery is possible. You need to decide how to handle the pictures, in my opinion OM would pay big time.

So far the consequences of her affair are:

1. She may lose her marriage.

2. She lost her job.

3. She now has pictures of her nude all over a college campus.

4. Her family and friends know of her failure as a person and W.

5. On it goes.

She has paid alot for her bad judgment. I say at some point the payment must end or you will lose YOUR options.

This is a bad place but certainly not as tough as some. She is not pregnant by OM for example. She does not have a permenant STD or death dealing one.

Step back, and give yourself time to gain perspective.

God Bless,

JL

When you say 'graphic', does that mean her face is included in the shots? If her face is not in the shots, it would be much better, but I fear otherwise.

At this point, you wife deserves full blame for letting him take the pictures and having the affair. Any man scummy enough to post pictures of someone he is having an affair with (knowing she has a family) on the internet deserves dire consequences. Make SURE Meredith and his dad see the pictures and know who put them on the internet.

If this didn't wake her up, nothing will.

She is not only going to have to live with the shame of what she's done, but also with the shame of knowing there are obscene photos of her being passed around to God knows who.

I agree about the moving far away part, but only if your wife is now ready to fully and completely do whatever it takes to heal your marriage. I wouldn't uproot your family if she's just going to play games. But I have a feeling, she's at rock bottom just about now.

Sure, but you know you could die in an accident every time you get behind the wheel of a car.

Does that mean that if a drunk driver crosses the center line and kills you in a head-on collision, your family shouldn't be outraged because "you knew the risk you were taking"?

She is definitely responsible for allowing these pictures to be taken and taking that risk that they may get out. Him sharing them with his friends...that is just extra special scum to me.

Yeap, I agree with JL. And like I mentioned in my post above. An IP Internet Attorney might be the ticket. There are lots of them out there now, for good reason.

I wholeheartedly agree that this should be done. I would also go to Google and search your wifes name to be sure they are not posted on a website but just circulating through email.

ITA.

Mgolfer,

This may be a totally off-the-wall idea.

Do you know what med school he is going to be attending? Med schools do not like controversy. I'm not sure what avenue you could take, but there might be something to use here.

Perhaps there are others who may have an idea on what steps you could take to make sure the med school knows what type of person is about to enter their program.

RRB needs to see some consequences of his actions.

ETA, I didn't see JL's reply before I posted. He has great advice as usual.

LC

No one wrote its not an outrage.

What I disagree with you on is she isn't responsible, she IS. She willing gave her consent to have the pictures taken.

Here's your quote below in case your memory is failing you.

Yeah, I realize that she gave her consent to have the photos taken. I do the same thing a couple times per year when we have family photos taken.

Did I willingly give my consent to have my photos taken, even though I know full well that there is such a thing as the internet, and my pictures could be easily shared without my permission? Yes.

Does that mean I don't have a legitimate complaint if those pics are shared without my consent? No.

Why are you defending RRB?

LG,

Sorry for the dreadful news, is her face in any of them?

You need to inform whatever medical school this scab applies to and make sure he is not admitted, this behavior is not appropriate for a future doctor as it indicates an inability to keep patient confidentiality. I would also consider a law suit, but I don't know what the current legal thinking on these matters is. Get proof now.

You need to check out the myspace and facebook accounts of the students on campus that you know, just search on the names. In facebook the "open" accounts are highlighted in blue. The files might be posted at those sites. Also if you find one student you can often look at a list of their "friends".

If you have the names of the JPEG files do a search in google for "whatever.jpg" and "whatever.jpeg".

God Bless
NJ

Completely agree with bolded above.

Look, I do not want to stand up for this POS...but this is silly. Those two things have NOTHING to do with one another. Not even close!

:RollieEyes:

Speaking from the perspective of a nurse with 40 years' experience, med school will NOT like this. Patient confidentiality is protected by federal law and there are HUGE monetary penalties for institutions that violate them. RRB is a very big risk to them, and one they might not be willing to take if they knew his past.

Medc et al,

Look, I do not want to stand up for this POS...but this is silly. Those two things have NOTHING to do with one another. Not even close!

Let the admissions committee at his desired medical school decide that, or let his father make a cash payment to H in compensation.

He can go to medical school in Russia or something then.

God Bless
NJ

Medc--you're the head of the med school admissions committee. You're going to be taking people and training them to deal with other humans at their most vulnerable points--raw, exposed, even naked. Your applicant is a young man who has entered into a sexual affair with a married faculty/staff member, the mother of young children, at his pre-med college. He has taken obscene photos of this staff member and circulated them to friends. These photos are now widespread in their distribution and were an embarrassment to the school he was attending.

How attractive is this applicant to you? How much confidence do you want to place in the discrete judgment of a man who, should he similarly involve himself with an attractive patient (they aren't ALL old and wrinkled, you know!), would open up the school to huge financial loss--to the government regulatory agencies AND the patient who will have no problem whatsoever finding an attorney to take her suit? I'm suggesting that you would find it extremely tempting to move on to another applicant with less baggage.

mg71, Sorry you have more crap to deal with.

FWW is paying the price for her stupidity and thoughtlessness. Not sure if there is much you can do. I still have photos of OW (face shown) and told her if she ever messes with me, my H, etc. that I will plaster her photos all over the internet and send them to her friends and family. Would I? If she's stupid enough to not heed my warning I would. I wouldn't do it for revenge purposes at this point but RRB has now passed the point of no return which was another stupid mistake on his part because he didn't consider further consequences to himself. Find out where he is going to medical school and inform them of this boy's character or lack there of.

Meredith may wash her hands of RRB given this latest twist especially if you set out to further smash RRB into the dirt which will further embarrass her to be with this kid. However, let's face it, she also is probably somewhat happy that your wife is getting the smack down for screwing "her man."

Legally...not sure if there is much recourse at this point. W was plain dumb. W is not working on campus anymore so unless she running into students on the street ????? and the initial interest will probably die off pretty fast for most people. If people start harassing mg71 or W then that's another story but hopefully it will blow over quickly.

Sorry this keeps sucking more and more for you.

While I think it shows poor character, I don't know if I'd go that far. RRB has no legal obligation to keep those photos private. I'm sure doctor, lawyers, judges and other sort of professionals have done crap in their private life that is scummy and sometimes it's known other times not.

I think a law suit should be possible, but perhaps not practical.

When the WW posed for those photos, I'm pretty sure that the intent, unspoken or otherwise, was for them to remain private, and NOT shared in the public domain. She may have grounds for a suit.

OTOH, I'm not sure what she'd hope to gain though, as any suggestion of the photos having "damaged her reputation" would be countered by the fact that it was her adultery, not the photos, that led to her dismissal, her damaged reputation, etc.

All in all, it was very stupid for his FWW to allow the OM to take inappropriate pictures of her, but I'm not sure anything can really be done about it at this point.