MG

You should not ask your WW to move out. You will not be able to reconnect with each other. The kids need her home. You will place yourself at a disadvantage to know if your WW is in NC or not.

Next time WW starts a conversation, or when she is at home when she should be at work. Ask how come she is home and did not go into work that day.

You'll find out if WW had to resign, fired, suspended. If she accuses you of gloating just say you are trying to get a handle on the finances. Not knowing if she was still going to bring home a paycheck.

MG,
You’re doing great and getting some great advice.

My guess is that your WW is feeling really lonely about now. OM has ignored her and told her to leave him alone. She has lost a job where she had lots of interaction with people and you have been distant. She reached out to you last night when she asked about you ignoring her. Use that to your advantage and give her a little attention tonight before you have any affair talk.

Why don’t you pick up your favorite take-out for dinner and actually sit with her at the table and eat. You can even engage her in some small talk, work, the kids, anything but the affair. Give her a little taste of what she stands to lose. After dinner you can sit with her on the sofa and tell her “I really want us to be able to get beyond all that has happened in the past few days, but I really need to hear the truth from you for that healing to start.” If she lies, and she will, gently remind her of the truth without giving up your sources. I think your idea of giving her a few chances and if she continues to lie calmly end the conversation by saying “I really need for you to be honest with me, but apparently you’re not ready for that yet. When you are ready, we can try this again.”

She’ll get the picture that you know a lot more than you’re telling. But, don’t tell her what you know. You want to use it to get her to tell you all the details. You may think you have the whole truth, but I’ll assure you that you most likely don’t. The key is to make her think you do so that she will open up and tell you everything. Just remember that when you do get the truth, try to stay calm. You don’t want to punish her for telling the truth but you want to make her feel safe enough with you to be completely open and honest. Be patient it may take a while, but I have a good feeling about this. I think you guys have a great chance at recovery.

I have a gut feeling that she might break down in tears if you were to say, "Regardless of what has happened, I still love you and want to save our marriage."

She may feel terrible guilt and be repentant. I think her depression says a lot and she may very well feel absolutely terrible.

Expect anything tonight. If you get a wife who is sorry and breaks down and asks for your forgiveness then consider yourself lucky and in a very small minority.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that you get that woman when you talk and not the WWes most of us had to deal with.

The OB (Other Boy) is getting his just desserts!!! I sure he sat around thinking it was funny how he was @!#$ing another man's wife, MILF, and Cheerleaders Coach and her husband didn't have a clue nor did his fiance! Now he is sitting there know that the husband knows, his father and financial backer for school knows, the school knows, and now his fiance knows! Its not so funny now!!!!

MG
I have been following your post. Please accept my heartfelt condolences for you joining the Betrayed Spouse club. I am encouraged and gratified to see what a man of integrity you are.

Taking the time to find out the fiances contact information. What a stroke of genius, and what a considerate thing to do. I am sorry you will not be a fly on the wall when that little punk has to explain his actions to his potentially future wife. If she has any brains she will kick this jerk to the curb.

Right now you are responding incredibly well considering the shock from the emotional/relational car wreck you have been in. There is nothing I have experienced that can be as heart wrenching as an affair.

Just a word of advice to you. Read the posts very carefully. Remember you are in shock. When I was in shock from my wife telling me she wanted to separate, I did not fully comprehend and pay attention, thus follow the advice I was given here.

I have been reading the posts to you and some of the more experienced members seem to be favouring a softer approach. I can see the merit in this as you are both really hurting.

It would seem to me if you can muster up the ability to extend an olive branch to her at this time, especially after the injury she has delivered you, I suspect (perhaps not immediately) that she will see your depth of character, and realize what an idiot she has been. I am not talking about ignoring letting her know the destruction she has wrought, but to show that even in the immeasurable pain you are experiencing you have the depth of character to behave in a caring manner.

From what I have read at some point she will be kicking herself around the block for participating in such a juvenile and unprofessional manner. Her reputation is in tatters, she will have to wear this banner for a number of years, and hopefully she will realize this sooner than later, and apologize to you for dragging you through such a horrendous event..

By you responding in a firm but caring manner, yet keeping her fully aware of the destruction she has created, you will also cut off the justification for her running for sympathy. You will prevent the "He yelled at me", "He is uncontrollably angry", "He is being so mean" defense, allowing her to try and gain some support, should she try to run away and not face up to her actions. In doing so I think you will be heaping coals on her head. The ability to blame you will be absent. It will take some time for the gravity of her actions to sink in.

Once the affair fog lifts, I suspect, if she has any intelligence at all, that she has really screwed up, incredibly. If there were issues in your relationship this is absolutely not the way to address it. Perhaps some of the others can offer further insight into this, but from my readings the wayward mind is a mystery. If you are wanting to recover your marriage, then now is the time to think long term. I am not by any means an expert, but it make sense to me to look at your long term objectives and allow that to guide your behaviour. At times like this it feels like striking back, and inflicting like pain to the injuring party, would feel so satisfying, but that was Old Testament stuff, we are under a new set of guidelines.

By the sounds of it your Father-in-law is on board with you. My suspicion is he has had longer to develop a sense of respect for you than we have, (and from what you have done you have my respect and admiration). She still is his daughter, and he is probably disgusted and disappointed in her right now. By you behaving in the caring manner, she will not be able to run home to Daddy, claiming you have turned into some kind of beast.

If I can echo the advice of the other posters and that is do your venting here! You are doing very well under the circumstances. I just want to mention again I think you are showing great depth of character.

Sorry you have to be here

God Bless you and your family.

Flynn -

You hit it right on the nose. This just might be a good "life" lesson for the young guy if he persues his medical school goals.

MG-

Perfect execution. First post - there was a bit of BH fog. After following a plan and some advice - you now have some truth, followed a perfect "blitz" exposure, and broke up the affair within a short period of time. You are in control of the situation rather than reacting to other's actions. Excellent job.

Need to save this thread for any future BHs that question the need for exposure.

MG,

Assuming you want to save your marriage and move forward into recovery at this point, I suggest you remember that this will be a marathon and not a sprint. Your marriage didn't get to this point in a week and won't recover from it in anything like that time. Resist the normal "guy thing" of wanting to fix it all at once and get it over with. BTDT and it doesn't work that way.

As much as it sucks right now your wife is going to need you to comfort her for a while. I know that isn't fair but it is fact. She will slowly begin to realize what has just happened and that she was the cause. It will happen gradually and unfortunately the first stage will be grieving the loss of OB. That will take but a short while with any luck and then she will become grief stricken at the loss of her job, if that is indeed the case and that will be followed by more grieving over what she has done to you and her family. But at first it will still be all about her and not what has happened to you.

In her own mind, she will try to transfer to you the guilt over what took place and she will attempt to taunt you into proving that you are the bad guy in this. Don't take the bait. Don't accept any of the blame for the consequences of her actions. Don't beat her up verbally over it and don't accept invitations to fight about it.

Spend more time with her doing the small talk, playing "normal life" and being affectionate toward her than you spend talking about the affair. Try to plan something recreational that you both could enjoy and try to get her to go along. The affair needs to be discussed, but repairing the love for each other is what will keep you together through recovery.

If you sense that she is withdrawing further, give relationship issues a short break and spend more time filling love banks than hammering out solutions. Go back to finding answers when you both are able.

Recovery is harder than breaking up the affair in most cases, so be prepared for it to be two steps forward, one back, one more forward and three back followed by a great leap and then another set-back. It is the way these things go I'm afraid.

Everybody bookmark this thread so we can refer newbies to it when they are reluctant to expose and sit in fear wondering what to do.

Great job so far, MG. Now comes the hard part...

Mark

I think this advice is among the most simple yet deeply loving advice I've ever seen given here in my short time. I would take it.

MG

You have done an awesome job! Exposing to OM's fiance was the right thing to do. Her eyes are now open.

I haven't seen this addressed so I thought I'd throw it out there for you to think about. In no way, shape or form are you responsible for her choice to have an A. Don't ever accept blame for her bad choice. What you did have responsibility for was 50% of the state of your M prior to her A. In time you will need to examine that part and see what improvements need to be made. In the coming weeks and months you'll need to begin to understand what changes you can make to yourself to become a better you. MB can help you with this.

Your WW made a really really bad choice. It probably began innocently enough(she probably was not looking to have an A)and then one by one she slipped down the slippery steps to infidelity. She had weaknesses that she didn't protect. She allowed herself to be selfish and entitled just so she could feel a rush. And that's all it was. It wasn't about YOU. It was about her.

This point is hard for most BSs to grasp. Yes, she is M to you. Yes, she is supposed to love you. Yes, she hurt you more than you thought was even possible. Yet during this whole A, she wasn't thinking about you or how this could ever affect you. She was thinking of herself. End of story. You'll ask "how could you do this?" a hundred times. Most WSs don't have a clue. It takes a lot of soul searching to find this answer. But it's a very important answer that needs to be dissected so it NEVER happens again. In the not too distant future these thoughts will invade your head. The sooner you "get it" the better.

I also recommend showing some compassion if you can. I know you are devastated from her A. There is nothing to compare to that pain. But your WW is going to experience her own pain soon enough. And as others have mentioned she will beat herself up for years if she becomes a truly remorseful S. In the next few weeks focus on the future of a R marriage. Keep that goal in mind and try not to do things that you will regret later or that will cause more damage than good.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. Someday your WW will be grateful that you fought for her.

Now hold on to your hat, some hard discussions lie ahead.

We had a long night last night. I got some truth, but like many of you warned it was like pulling teeth. She tried to lie every time until I prompted her by insinuated that I knew she was lying. But, we did a couple of truths out on the table and I guess we can work from there. I have so much more that I want to ask her, but she obviously isn’t ready to be transparent so I may as well take what I have and wait a little.

Like every other time in the past few days, I came home to find her in her pajamas and obviously no shower. I took someone’s advice and told her I was going to pick up some take out from a little Italian restaurant down the road and suggested that she may feel better if she took a long shower while I was gone and that we could eat together when I got back. She did take a shower and put on some clean pj’s, not exactly dressing up for dinner, but a huge improvement.

We had a fairly pleasant dinner with me talking and her at least smiling and nodding occasionally. When we finished, I cleaned the table while she went to watch TV. When I finished, I came and sat with her and told her that we really needed to talk about what had happened. She started to protest, but I told her that I had been patient to this point but that I needed a few answers. I then just asked her to explain to me all that had happened.

I’m glad that I read the posts here first, because this must be like a script. She said exactly what everyone said she would. “It was just some innocent flirting that got a little out of hand.” I responded by telling her that I had seen the pictures and it was way beyond flirting. I asked her if she really expected me to believe that there was nothing physical going on. She swore that it was just flirting and the pictures. I told that I wasn’t that naïve. I then ask what she would say if I told her that I knew that it was way more than that. She then said that there was some kissing, but that was all. I finally told her that she was obviously not ready to be honest and that maybe we could try this again when she was ready. I then told her “I know way more than you think, but I really need to hear the truth from you.” She said “okay, we slept together are you happy now?” I just left her there and went to my den. I heard from everyone that she would do this, but I was really ticked off at that point. I didn’t show her how angry I was, but I almost chewed the end of my tongue off to keep from going off on her.

She came in about an hour later and said “I know you’re upset, but I really can’t deal with this right now.” I told her that I understood but that we were going to have to deal with this sooner rather than later. I also told her “you may not believe me, but I do still love you. I’m incredibly angry and disappointed right now, but I still love you.” I then told her that I really do want to try to work things out, but that it’s going to take her being completely honest at some point for that to happen. She said “I know” and went to bed.

Should I try again with her later today, or should I give her some more time. I’m just an emotional wreck at this point. I’m angry, I’m frustrated, I’m sad, and I get sick to my stomach just looking at her today. Maybe I need a break more than she does. I really wish I was working today so that I could escape for just a bit. It’s really not good for my temperament to be around her too much at this point. I’m starting to beat myself up for even trying this. I always said that infidelity was a deal breaker, but that’s easier to say when it’s not reality.

Yes, but go easy for now. If she were to have her druthers, she'd druther not talk about it at all. Just make it go away, like it never happened.

Maybe some of the guys can come along and guide you on how to resume the discussions.

But remember what Mark advised you:


Oh, and continue the snooping. She may be trying to stall until she can connect and "talk" to OB.

Your WW is in Just Fugedaboudit mode.



Get out for a while, hit a couple bookstores or the library and see if you can find Survivng an Affair. If you can't find it order it.

I strongly recommend getting a call into the Harleys.

We're all pretty good at helping to bust up affairs and the Wayward Script but you really need the Harleys for recovery.


Funny, just about everyone says this but when finally faced with it we chose to attempt recovery.




Totally agree.

mg71,

You are going through the normal emotions. MANY of us thought that infideltiy was a "deal breaker" for us, but later reconsidered when faced with the REALITY. Over a year past D-Day ... THAT fact still haunts me and has damaged my self-respect, even though I am confident that I made the correct decision to R. THIS issue will be VERY hard for you to deal with, and won't get much better with time ... you have shown your strength of character so I don't suppose there's any point in blowing any sunshine your way.

Regarding continuing the discussion ... this seems to be the best time ... you've opened the dialogue ... the kids are still out of the house ... and you have the whole day off. I know that your WW will want to delay as long as possible, but just let her know that you've been kept in the dark about what was going on in your life long enough, and now you need some answers. Tell her that you have shown her that you can take it without losing your composure, so she has nothing to fear from telling you EVERYTHING.

This approach worked for me ...

"FWW, I love you ... so much so that I'm willing to try to recover our M after all of this. You have betrayed my trust, so it will not be easy, but for me to start to rebuild that trust, I must know everything that happened. You see ... you are my W ... and if that is going to continue, I simply can't allow there to be secrets shared between you and another man. I can't change what happened, but at least there's not some guy out there that shares something intimate with MY W that I don't know about."

BTW, I know you feel like he11, but you really are doing GREAT. Hang in there.

And that sums it all up. You're doing a great job so far MG, I wish I'd acted sooner or I wouldn't be in such a mess now, still going round in circles.

My WW and I traded texts the other night, seems easier that way. I texted 'I NEED to know the WHOLE truth of what is, or has been, going on. No matter how much it will hurt. Can you understand that? Only from there can we have any hope'. She texted back 'I HAVE TOLD YOU the truth. It all stopped ages ago' And I know this to be total lies. My W is in denial and delusional as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck MG

Would it be too early to give her a copy of Joseph's letter?

Any thoughts? Is she too foggy yet?

It may be because he still hasn't heard any type of committment from her to recovery, much less the marriage. I think until he knows where she stands, he should let her do most of the talking. You can't educate a WS, even a busted WS, this early. As far as he knows and we know, she's STILL a WS. KWIM?

MG,

I applaud you! Seriously, you're showing backbone and self respect and it will pay off in a major way once her fog lifts.

I see many signs of hope. It will be like pulling teeth until she sees the fog lifts.

You were a master in how you handled things and I wish I had had half the composure you have displayed.

Continue to be cool. Don't feel bad if you have a "FU" moment here and there, but it's awesome that you have kept your cool this way.

She will likely break down big time eventually.

I would make it clear to her that you must know everything and that she must be willing to answer all the details when you ask. Holding anything back to only have you discover things later will simply serve to open wounds. Better to hear things from her up front than to learn them later.

I must warn you that there is a common state of mind which affects the majority of the betrayed. Snooping becomes an obsession. You'll find yourself wanting to read her emails, check her cell phone records, go through her bedroom drawers, coat pockets, pant pockets, and web surfing habits. You'll want to listen in to her phone conversations and just generally become pre-occupied with spying.

This is normal.

It's a self defense response to the fact that you have been hurt so badly by someone you trusted so deeply and who has betrayed you. You'll question every word they say. I'm going to share the 180 with you, which is a great guide for how to act right now that you are in Plan A. Here it is:

This list was originally titled, “The 180” and it won’t take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own.

The 180

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner. (In your case, DO)

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

Only you can know if it's worthwhile to try and recover. Did you have something once that was so good it's worth the effort to try and get it back? Or has the relationship always been rocky and unsatisfying? Your answer to those questions may possibly be a guide to what you want to do now.

I don't think so. I think she's more likely in the "I need to know what he actually knows so I can lie and spin accordingly" mode.

She is likely going to try to contact the OM again, to see what he's heard and experienced after exposure.

I would suggest holding off the "twenty questions" for awhile, until she's out of this and well through "withdrawal". The BS already has access to all the basic facts already.

To follow up on my earlier post, I was finally able to check the computer again. Apparently, she still hasn’t figured out that I can see all of her activity. She has emailed him 6 times in the past 48 hours, all basically just asking him to call her. But one interesting one was sent at 2:00AM this morning. She wanted to know what he had said about them. She told him “My husband knows everything. Have you talked to him? What did you tell him? Please call me!” Apparently our little talk last night has her a little paranoid.

To his credit he hasn’t responded to any of them. I’m guessing that this relationship has become more trouble than fun at this point and he’s just ready to forget it ever happened. I have called and our home internet connection will be cut off sometime today. I still have access through my aircard, but she will be cut off. I know it doesn’t guarantee NC, but it will make it a lot more difficult.

I am taking everyone’s advice. I am heading out to the gym this afternoon. After that, I’m meeting a friend for dinner. I need to get my mind of all of this for a little while. I’ll deal with her when I get home. If she’s still awake, I may try to push for a few more answers. If not, we still have tomorrow evening before the kids come home on Saturday.

Thanks again for all the help. By the way, I like the “180” idea. If nothing else, it may make me feel like I’m regaining some control over my life. I’ll have to think about that.