She could be emotional addicted to the feeling she had thinking OB was into her for more than just her looks or sex. This kid was going off to medical school soon (far away?) and getting married. I doubt WW was really looking at any serious relationship with this kid.

mg71

"I could understand it better if there was some emotional element to this affair. I’m just having a hard time getting my hands around the fact that she could be with this guy multiple times and it just be a physical thing."


Why? Have you never seen a woman that you found attractive enough to want to do when you were single. Not marry just do. There does not have to be a mental connection. Such a connection being there or not, does not matter.

Just as the number of times they banged does not matter when looked at alone. How about instead an affair went on for before one found out. Two months or two years?


"I haven’t seen her going through anything close to the withdrawal described by many on this board."


The longer an affair went on causes withdrawal to take longer. Withdrawal usually takes six months. These are generalized statements. Some WW's can drop their OP without any sign's of withdrawal.


"She even tried to initiate SF last night. It had been over a month since we had SF and it’s like she thought we could just go back to the way it was a month ago. It really pxxxed her off when I turned her down."

WW's usually offer up SF to keep you from leaving, divorcing, exposing. They are confused. Trying to maintain the status quo. Smooth things over an act as if every thing is in the past.


"“while I love you and look forward to reclaiming the physical part of our relationship that I couldn’t do this until she had a complete battery of STD tests run.” She stormed off yelling “I told you we used protection every time but I guess you still don’t believe me. You’re such an Axx.” I followed her to the basement and reminded her that I had no reason to trust her at this point. I told her that the only truth I had gotten from her in the past month was when I confronted her lies with facts and backed her into a corner.
She claimed that I was exaggerating. I reminded her that “it was only flirting” and then “it was only some kissing” and finally, when I presented her with undeniable facts, it was “okay, I slept with him once” and even that was a lie because it’s now twice. I have not willingly been given one bit of truth during this whole nightmare. I then brought it back to the issue of the night and told her that “I have no reason to believe that you used protection every time and therefore I have no way of knowing if you’ve been exposed to any number of STD’s because if this kid is like most college guys, he will sleep with anything that’ll spread her legs.”"


Great way to get her to realize that she has not been honest with you. But until she is willing to admit this I would not bring it up unless she was to fight you on getting tested before STD testing.


"I understand the fog associated with most affairs, but is that fog still present when it appears to be totally physical with little emotional attachment. I just feel that there’s way more to this than I know at the moment because none it makes any sense to me. If anyone has any ideas, I’m open to trying anything at this point."


As I wrote earlier, there does not have to be an emotional affair to go with the physical affair. There can be an EA alone, PA alone, and both together. Fog can be there with either a EA or PA. Fog can evaporate instantly or take a year. Nothing is etched in stone.

Things seem to be moving in a good direction for you. Hold your course.

Not necessarily. It could just be her getting the excitement, and then thinking 'This (her marriage) is all I'm going to get? When do I get to be excited again? I'm stuck for the rest of my life.'

That's why I recommend that everyone incorporate rut-proofing into their marriage. Keep doing new things together, look up old friends, start new hobbies together, join clubs...just keep it fresh so she has something to look forward to.

No need for the polygraph. You know it was 2x a week and until she admits to this she is lying (not willing to work on your marriage). If you need all the details (rather than you just need to feel like she has stopped lying) then the polygraph is in order (if you need to know for fact you know everything about it, to know for fact she is not lying).


This is a very realistic fear to have. Unless she changes drastically, we could see you back here down the road. There is quote (from HNHN I think), "Men give love to get sex. Women give sex to get love." In my experience, it is a he77 of a lot harder for a woman to have NS attached $ex.

Before you mentioned that she was always the "pretty girl" I figured that much. OB met that admiration EN of hers and if he did it well then she felt an emotional attachment to him. It's probably one of her top needs. But, with this nuclear exposure she may be realizing how vanity has destroyed her life right now and how petty that really is.

Now if he was meeting the conversation EN then I'd say it would be harder to withdraw from because then she'd be thinking "oh he was my soul mate, he really understood me". I think the level of initmacy that developed in her situation wasn't as strong. She just LOVED to be physically admired. And it would still bring some level of emotional attachment. But withdrawal wouldn't be so difficult.

MG,
This is still ALL about her. By her calling you an a$$ it shows that she has absolutely NO CLUE of the pain that she has caused you and your M. Her pride and selfishness will keep her in that mind frame. And she'll never "get it" until she hits rock bottom...so let her. Let her feel every consequence of her actions, don't block any of them. Continue to show her that you care and want to work on things, but maintain your boundaries.

What it looks like is that she is sorry she got caught. She is going to look very bad in other people's eyes and that bothers her GREATLY (the admiration thing again). Right now that bothers her more than how much pain she has bestowed on you. She hasn't even glanced in THAT direction yet. I think IC (with the Harleys if possible) will get her to go there. She has got to humble herself and that may be the hardest thing for her to do.

Has she always been selfish? The center of attention because of her looks?

mg71,

I had to go back and reread some of our early threads, but this seems to be the rough time line:

D-Day and FogFree's recommitment was 7-25-07

NC was established 7-26-07

We begin MC on 7-27-07

FogFree starts to understand the depth of her betrayal through the month of August and confesses on 8-26-07 that she broke NC 7-27-07 (Right after our 1st MC Session) by texting OM, which was never responded to.

FogFree writes her complete confession letter to me, including all details of physical contact, emotional thoughts, subjects of phone conversations, etc. on 8-28-07.

I discover on 9-5-07 a secret "Hotmail" email account that she set up to re-establish contact on 7-30-07 for "closure". There appears to have been only 1 outgoing email to OM with no response from him.

After my severe blow-up on 9-5-07, FF sees just how close she came to losing everything and the deception FINALLY ceases. From 9-5-07 to date, she has been fully recommitted, transparent, honest and the nearly perfect FWW.

If our experience is any kind of valid time line, I would expect that yours would last a little longer since you are dealing with a longer and more physical A.

During this roughly 6 week period, FF was basically remourseful and working on us, but she would occassionally revert to the anger that you are experiencing when confronted with new details or she tried to blame shift or excuse her behavior.

Fo us, it took roughly 6 weeks for her to "own" her stuff and recommit unconditionally, which included about a half dozen MC sessions of varying benefit.

If you want to read some of our early trials, here's a link to FogFree's original thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=145455&Number=1932556#Post1932556

MG:

You had a GOOD weekend.

Your WW is moving along the path, like many WW.

Is she in WD? Probably.

Was it more emotional than Sport ****edit**** Yes. RRB has been working on her for 3.5 years. At first, it was just a young man who thought your WW was attractive. She probably has faced young men like this for YEARS, considering her position, and what she has been doing. But, for some reason, RRB got in. He got her to "turn the corner". The pressure from RRB probably increased after his fiance left the school last year. That pressure, was returned, slowly but surley by your WW. Yes, it started because he was the head male cheerleader, or assistant, or something else. But they had a reason to talk, and it expanded, slowly, the barriers falling one by one.

You saw it from the opposite side. Slowly but surely, your WW pulled away from you. You KNEW when the SF started, That's when she really pulled away and became somewhat nasty.

So, it wasn't a SportF. At least not for your WW. Did she do it before? No. You saw the change in her. Where she went from being your W to being this alien. That was new. If she was banging others? You would have seen the same type of actions on her part.

Someone recommended "Josephs letter" Please read Pep's Notable posts thread here> Pep's good stuff

Time to hand that to your WW. She needs to see WHY she needs to talk to you.

Then give her the questions that you might have, as I recommended earlier. That gives you the place to start, and then, since she is interested in sweeping this under the rug, (wouldn't you?) she knows what she has to clean up.

I have more, but have to run....

LG

Yes! She has always been the center of attention. She has her selfish moments, but she's not always that way.

I think you're right that at this point she's sorry she got caught. We'll see if she ever truly "gets" what she's done.

Thanks for the link.

I hope you're right that this is the first time anything like this has happened. I am reasonably sure it is because she never acted this way before.

I have been compiling a list of all the questions I need answers to. Would it be best to give them to her a few at a time starting with some of the "easier ones?" I don't need to know every detail, but I do need to hear enough from her to make me confident that she is being honest.

By the way, our little exchange last night seems to have shook her a bit. I don't know if it was the STD discussion, the comment about OB just looking for and easy lay, or the fact that the offer of SF didn't "make everything alright," but she has moped around all day today.

Has she mentioned her future...like her job and what she is going to do? Also, I wondered about a support system for her (other than you)? Does she have a friend or someone who would listen to her (not someone who will pump sunshine where the sun deosn't shine) but just someone for her to talk to?

From the picture you have given, your wife has taken to the house for safety of being embarrassed and not having to face the reality of what people will say about her. Does she just plan to stay there....LOL???

How are your children? I know they are young but just curious?

MG:

About this:


Well, DUH. She's the beatiful blonde, right?

Lots of SF, or a big smile, was all she ever needed to fix a problem, right?

My BW had us in the Dr's office within three days of Dday to get the test. Ouch. But needed by BW for her piece of mind. Mrs MG's smile doesn't get her out of that, does it?

Comment about the easy lay? Harsh, but true. She knows it, Never expected YOU to say it to her. But you have. And you don't have to say it again.

Then, you rejected her advance. When your the "hottie" that SHOULD never happen. It's like she grew a second head. This REALLY hurts.

But I recommended that you spend time with her. Be her lifeboat. Yes, difficult choices have to be made, and your the one who gets to make them, since she is the one who sunk the ship. Help her into the boat. Let her know that she is welcome in the boat. But she's going to have to work to stay in the boat.

And then this:



You preface the conversation, with a statement like this: "We need to explore what happened to start the affair, and what happened during your A. I have a number of questions. I have started writing them down. I want you to know, that by writing them down, I'm trying to find out what I need to know. And I want you to know where the end is at. I don't want you to feel that we will never get past this. That we, or I, will be stuck. Honesty will allow the questions to end. I will have answers. You will have learned how your guard was weakened. We will learn a better way to communicate. I don't want all the answers in one night. I want to talk, weekly, or twice a week about this, as we explore the questions. The rest of the week, we work together as a family. That's all I hope for. We CAN do this."

MG, what can your future look like? Last night, a rerun of Dr. Phil was on. An unrepentant lying cheating husband was on stage with his BW. Flamingo was interested in what was going on. This WH, would only admit to what they had info on him about. Otherwise, he continued his lies. The point? Flamingo, this morning, at breakfast, said: "LG, do you know WHY I liked that program last night? Because you weren't like that. You told me everything, right from the start, and it allowed me to start rebuilding trust."

MyRev got it after a month. Flamingo got it the first day. You might get it in three weeks. You might not EVER get it. But then you know what to do if you don't get it. You divorce her. Otherwise, you let her know what you need and what your timetable is like. And then you stick to it.

And plan A in the meantime.

LG

Now you should also make sure she knows you want to TRY to work through this. She will also have to WORK through this and that it won't come easy. She totally eradicated all of your trust and has to EARN it back. It will be a long, hard road but MG wants to change for the better to make the Marraige work. Mrs. MG also has to want to change (and prove changes through her ACTIONS).

I think in your situation, the ONLY way you will ever be able to move ahead with any peace of mind, is if you get your WW to take a lie detector test.

...and the test should include a question about whether or not this was her first A. The way that your WW is acting now, I suspect that it wasn't.

It has been absolutely crazy since I posted on here yesterday. I think WW had a break through last night. I am trying not to get my hopes up, but I’m excited about her progress. After I put the kids to bed last night, I went to our bedroom to read and watch the election coverage. She came in about an hour later and I could tell she had been crying. She asked me why I was staying with her. I told her that I still had hope for our marriage and that I intended to fight to make it better than it was before.

She said “I just don’t see how you’re ever going to get over this. You made it clear last night that you think I’m a lying tramp and I can see in your eyes how hurt and angry you are.” I walked over to her and put my hands on her shoulders and told her “ I am angry right now. You have betrayed me, you have betrayed our kids, and you have done all of that over someone fling with a college kid. But, I know deep down that I can forgive you and get over the affair. What I won’t be able to get over is your continued lying.” I also told her that the thing that hurt the most was how she continues to disrespect me by continuing to lie to me now.

I led her over and sat beside her on the bed and decided to just lay everything on the table and see how she responded. I told her the following:

1. I still love you and I know that we can recover and move on stronger than before.
2. I know way more about this affair than you think I do, but I still needed to hear those things from her so that I can start to trust her again.
3. The only way we could ever recover was if she was willing to be totally honest and answer ALL of my questions about the affair.
4. I need for her to commit to NC with OB for life and make her life completely transparent.
5. She needs to get into IC and find out how she could allow this to happen.
6. She needs to be willing to commit to MC for as long as needed to start rebuilding our relationship.
7. I need to hear her apologize frequently and sincerely for as long as I needed to hear it.


She agreed to start by answering my questions. I told her that I had been writing them down and that I would give her a few questions every week and we could pick 1 night a week to discuss them so that we could both get a little break from all of this. I then asked her if she was willing to tell me as much as she could remember at the moment so that I could match that to what I already know and therefore give me some hope that she was serious.

She told me that she was really sorry for hurting me and that she just felt so stupid and embarrassed for getting herself into this mess. She then told me about how they had always been “flirty” with one another, and that it started that way again in August when practice began, but that it started to go way further than before since OB’s fiancé, Meredith, wasn’t there this year. She said that the flirting got more and more suggestive and that they started emailing each other and texting each other things that were sexually suggestive and that it made her feel like a college kid again. She said that he kept pushing the envelope farther and farther and that she went along because she liked how it made her feel. She said that it eventually led to some kissing after practice and OS in her car. She said that it eventually moved on to intercourse at an away game about a month ago and that since then she had been going to his apartment after practice a couple of times a week for SF. She still swears that they used protection every time.

I thanked her for sharing all of that with me. I also told her that as much as I want to believe her that I still need for her to go have the STD testing done. She agreed to go to her Dr this week.

Am I getting my hopes up too much, or is this really as big a breakthrough as I think it is? Everything she told me matches the info I have already gotten so it appears to be the truth. I want to believe her when she says that she wants to stay and make things better and it certainly seems that she is trying. But, I still doubt that her attitude could change this much so fast. I guess I’m just not ready to fully trust her yet. This was a good first step. I gave her three questions that I have for her to answer and we agreed to talk about it Friday night. I told her that every time she answers a question honestly that she adds one more brick to the wall trust and that over time I truly want to trust her again. I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes.

Excellent. The fog is lifting!

Recovery is hard. Recovery is hard. Recovery is hard.

Did you know recovery is hard?

Still a long ways to go, but definitely a breakthrough!

This is all good so far. You are doing way better than average around here.

Dr. Willard Harley says that we should never trust our spouse 100%.

I suggest you attend the next MB Weekend and work through the home study course you get at the end.

Awesome.

I think I'd call it a bridge of trust instead of a wall.
I know, nit-picking.

I think she's sincere and I think your goals are realistic.

This is good news but remember this is a marathon not a sprint.

You are at the top of the rollercoaster but there are many more drops on the ride.

Processing the mental "porn movies" of a WW and OM takes time. A long time. Vent here when it happens.

Anger is a recurring phase.

Six months out of D-Day is usually a rough time.

As PM says, recovery is hard.

Look for pro-MB councilors.


Doubtful.

The signs sound positive but there is so many ups and downs still to come. Some days you will think you feel half way "normal" and then BAM...a trigger or some thought that just put a piece into place that you hadn't even thought of before. When your W goes for her STD tests she will feel like dirt but it will be one more thing to humble her and help her understand the seriousness of her messed up choice. She may want to speak to her physican about anti-Ds.

Has anything transpired with her job?