Hola JL,

Just a quick question because you must know over the many years we've been here I respect your opinion.

Do you advocate the below for MG, specifically the RED?


Thanks and Happy Halloween. :pumkin:
Jo

Jo,

I am "OLD SCHOOL" and feeling older all of the time.

I tend to stick to the quote by Robert E. Lee.
A spouse may not honor/respect us and hurt us deeply. However, that does not mean we should not act with HONOR. I don't think the recommendation brings honor to Mgolfer. Just my opinion.

I understand the need to know all or most. But, frankly at the end of the day this marriage will work or it won't if and when Mgolfer decides it can work. His W has a decision to make, but since it is MGolfer we are talking to, in my book it is HIS decision. I would councel him to act with HONOR, and yes honor his commitments. I would councel him to seek information, but don't lower himself to lying as his W has done.

In the end, the final accounting is done by ourselves when reflecting on our life. What others think ceases to be of importance in the end of things.

Mgolfer has a long life ahead of him, he has children to rear, and he has many events to look forward to, no matter what his W decides.

So Jo there you have it from Old school. I don't care for the strategy. I must say however, that I don't find it objectable at all for Mgolfer to be checking her email, I just don't like traps much. I think he will receive the data he needs in due time.

God Bless,

JL

And ...


100% completely agree, JL.

Again, have a safe but scary Halloween. :pumkin:

JL,


I totally agree. This is why I told him in a previous post it's time to talk to her and be sure to spell things out very clearly.

MG,

At this point she has not choice, she is done hiding in the guestroom. It is time to face reality. You need to spell things out very clearly so there will be no wiggle room.

I think we can all assume she has been fired, but has she actually told you yet?

LC

As a last resort. I'm up for doing anything legal to obtain the information you need, but can't get because of your wayward spouse.

Hopefully MG won't need to...maybe he won't want to...but it should always be in the arsenal.

A less-than-forthcoming WS doesn't deserve honesty, anyway.

Wow, I’m gone for a few hours and things go crazy. So much to absorb. I have read all of the posts, but I am printing this entire thread to read everything again to make sure I am understanding everyone. I have arranged to be off tomorrow and I am thinking about picking her up, if she’ll go, and taking her to her parent’s lake cabin tonight and staying until tomorrow night. My parents can keep the kids until Sunday. I am thinking that getting away from everything and staying in a small cabin with no TV and no phone may keep us both focused and force us to deal with some things.

I will try to answer some of the questions raised so that you guys will be able to keep helping.

First, She has asked about the kids, but she seems content for them to stay at my parents right now. She says that she “just isn’t ready to face them yet.” I too am a little concerned at how selfish she has been. I miss the kids when they’re gone for the weekend. I have even stopped by to visit them a couple of times this week on the way home from work. I just told them that Mommy is sick and needs some rest.

Next, I too have been thinking that this may not be the first time. I may just be paranoid, but I still worry about it. She has been really conscious of growing older since our youngest was born. She has been dressing younger and trying to act younger for the past few years. The more I think about everything, I’m really starting to think that this whole affair is just another way for her to prove to herself that she is still young and getting her ego stroked that she could still attract a young guy. If that’s the case, it’s entirely possible that RRB is just the flavor of the year. I am definitely considering a polygraph if we indeed ever move to true recovery.

I’ll read everyone’s posts again before I do anything, but I really think that I need to lay some firm ground rules this weekend. I just don’t have it in me to keep muddling along for months and months while she recommits to this marriage. I plan to make sure she understands that I am committed to trying to recover our marriage, but that I need some things from her immediately for that to happen. Among those is complete NC with OB, a willingness to answer my questions about this affair with complete honesty, and a willingness for her be totally transparent in all areas of her life.

I need to see at least some movement in her over the weekend. I plan to be pleasant but firm all weekend. I want her to understand that I want this to work out, but I am not going to settle for just forgetting this ever happened and going back to the way things were before. At this point, I don’t want what we had before, I want something better and I’m not willing to settle for less just to avoid the dreaded D word.

I am going to apply one of the lessons my college golf coach taught me. He always said don’t let your emotions affect your next decision. For example, when you hit a bad shot, don’t let that anger affect your next shot choice. Separate yourself from the emotion before you pick your club and shot. The same for when you hit a great shot. Don’t let your excitement convince you to try something you’re not capable of pulling off. I am going to try to carefully consider my words and reactions and try to make sure it’s not my emotions talking, but that I think through everything before I respond. Wish me luck this weekend. I don’t know if I’ll be able to post again for a few days.

Good plan, MG71.

The isolated cabin is the ideal place for you two to get down to business.

Please add to your current or near-future requirements for your wife (and yourself) counseling with the Harleys. Here's their contact info:

MB - Harley Coaching Center

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639

Jo

I have not been to Marriage Builders in a few months....I'm glad I've been able to find this thread.

You have done everything almost perfectly to give your marriage the best chance to recover...

My story is below....my FWW and I are in the best place a marriage can be at....so in tune now, so in love, so much love for us, our family and our resiliantcy.

The point you are at right now is nothing short of an atomic blast going off, while you both were underground....and now you are popping out, to take a look at what is around....what has survived, what can be salvaged.

Your NEW marriage will be perceived by both of you totally differently, you will need to re-build foundations, with the knowledge of what was weak with it in the first place, and make the corrections.

But you will need to be an incredible warrior for a good part of 6 months.....mentally prepare for this. Again, PREPARE YOURSELF...continue working out, do some form of meditation, BE PROUD of yourself....many who have come here DID NOT respond to advice given and now, wish they could turn back time....this speaks of your character.

Let your wife breath.....establish boundaries....but initially let her breath. Believe it or not, from her perspective, this is just as hard....you may not really give a sh$t, but if you TRULY love her, then you shouldn't want to punish her.....she is doing much punishing of herself. Be her rock. Be her place to land softly, be her guiding light.

I did it. It takes time. My wife wanted nothing to do with me for several months.....she moved out.....now 3 years later....she thanks me for saving her, I am her hero....Marriage Builders guided me. And I am forever grateful.

God Bless,
MWIL

You have a good plan and keep up the good work. The golf analogy is perfect, use it to your advantage.

MG:

I pulled my curtains for LG thread up earlier today. IF you get a chance to read it, please read the first page.

Why? Because I was busted when OW called my BW.

My BW had the next two weeks off from work, and I'm self employed. So, I was able to stay out of the office for big chunks of the next two weeks.

What happened?

BW and I talked. We talked about the A and what had been going on for so long. Now, we had discovered MB three days before Dday, and it gave us the ability to TALK about the A in a manner that didn't exist in our M before.

What does this mean to you?

Your W has been staying curled up in a ball in the basement with NO ONE to talk to.

Time for you to go home. Time for you to STAY WITH HER.

Had the family dog died would you be staying far away from your W? No.

Yes, this is a self-inflicted wound that she has incurred, and in your eyes, the worst one she could have taken. Some have even recommended that you "Just look like your happy" and go about your life.

Nothing could be worse for you to show her right NOW. Should you be strong, confident and in control of your daily agenda? Not pining for her? Yes. Should you be doing things that show that she is important and that she can stay in your life, and that you are capable of forgiviness? Most definately.

Time to JUST BE WITH HER. Bring food. Bring Popcorn. Bring Movies. Sit with her. Let HER talk. You can follow up as previously described to and and then you can disengage after a little while and/or if she gets wound up.

"We can continue this later....Right now, just let me hold you."

I know your anger, I say it and experienced directly from Flamingo in the days after Dday. But I was WITH HER. I spoke with her and answered her questions/concerns/needs. That's unusual for waywards, yes, but I had one shot to get right. And if I missed it, Flamingo would have dumped me quick.

You have Mrs MG in the same place right now. But you HAVE TO MAKE YOUR SELF AVAILABLE TO HER!

Yes, you have to go to work. The kids are safe, you going to the cabin.

But no more time to the gym, or the bar, or extra time at work.

Time to BE WITH HER!

Saturday Morning Her world was whole. Monday Morning her entire world had exploded. And she had noone to turn to.

RRB.
Mr MG
FIL or MIL
Workmates.
Children.

All were GONE.

Time to BE BACK. And since you are the ONE WHO IS BACK, your the one who will start to fill her love bank again. Your the one who is throwing her all the lifelines. Your the one who can bring her back into the world, and help her find a NEW place in this world-Post dday.

Please do this. She may be angry at first, etc. So what. Be in her shoes for a few minutes. THe anger will dissipate if your available, and your willing to listen.

Be the lifeboat.

LG

I'm a little late to this party....

My BH emailed me from a fake account posing as OM.

I did not read the email, immediately blocked the email account (not knowing until later it was not OM but BH emailing me), and called BH and told him about the attempted contact.

I'm sure if I hadn't done exactly what I did I would FOR SURE be divorced right now. I thank God I did what I did.

So, in your situation, his fake email account and "dishonesty" were terrific for your recovery?

I'll bet it did your BH a ton of good, did it not?

I bet howtoheal gained a lot of trust that day and her BH knew she did indeed want to work on the M.

I agree with LG. Be the beacon.

Hello MG71,
I have been reading your thread from the first time you posted. I do not have the experience in a physical betrayal like most of the others have. But I can't help but wonder if she is fully aware that her job loss is directly the result of your action. I know she called you from a bar drunk and swore and yelled at you, but I wonder if she knows that you were the primary source. If she is not certain that you were the primary source, she may be in self protecion mode, trying to CYA.

You did a really good job of exposure. I know you called her and gave her seven hours to get home, but she may think that someone contacted you to obtain verification or whatever--she may think that you were not the "cause" of her exposure, but that you were just "correlated" to the exposure. Just a thought. It does not really affect recovery, but if my thought is correct, you may go through another anger phase when she realizes you were the cause, and not a correlation.

I have to love those coaches--always so grounded in reality and using baselining data to obtain success.

I'm in full agreement with LG on this one.

I don't think there's any inkling of romance in her emails and this was indeed just a sport screw. She disturbingly knew about "Meredith" since he didn't take the time to explain who she is so it is a little sick that she was knowingly screwing a kid who was engaged.

It would be interesting to see what the heck she was thinking if she knew he was engaged.

Pretty sad. But I get the impression that this was all just fun and games for both of them.

A wife who got tired of the same old same old from her H and the young guy fullfilled that.

No knock on you, MG. It's foggy thinking.

Could be a midlife crisis. Could be just being flattered by the attention of a younger guy. Could be poor boundaries.

We really don't know until she starts being honest. I have a feeling MG is going to have a remorseful wife really soon. But we'll see.

You're doing well, MG. Stay strong.

Well, it has been a crazy and exhausting weekend. But, I feel like we were able to lay the foundation for moving forward. I still don’t know if I’ll be able to completely get past all of this, but I am committed to trying my hardest. I’ll try to give as much detail as I can so that you guys can help me with where we’re at and where we go from here.

First, I didn’t really give her much choice about whether to go away or not. I packed a bag for both of us threw them in the car and told her to come on that I wanted to take her somewhere. She tried to protest, but it only took a little arm twisting to get her in the car. She figured out pretty quickly where we were going, but she was really fidgety and nervous for the entire hour ride. Neither of us really said too much so I had a little time to make a list in my mind of what I wanted to accomplish over the weekend.

I won’t give you a blow by blow of everything that was said, but the bottom line is I was able to get her to tell me the following things.

1. She did finally say that she was sorry, that she never wanted to hurt me, that she just felt so stupid and embarrassed, and that she had made a big mistake.
2. She also gave me a few details. They were intimate twice, once in her hotel room at a recent away game and once in his apartment the week before I found everything and blew everything up. This by the way is in line with what I already knew. She also swears that this is the first time anything like this has ever happened.
3. She swears that this was just a physical thing, that she had been feeling old and he made her feel young when they were flirting back and forth and that things just got out of hand. I’m not sure whether this makes me feel better or worse.
4. She did say that she wants to try to work things out between us, but that she’s just having a hard time dealing with everything right now. She mentioned how apparently everyone knew about what she had done and that she was embarrassed to have to face everyone. She said that she just wanted to hide in the basement and not come out for a while. She went on and on about how everyone that was important in her life, specifically her parents, her friends at work, and me, knew about this and that she didn’t know how she could ever face all of us knowing that we must think she’s stupid.


For my part, I tried to make her understand that I still loved her but that I was incredibly hurt and angry right now. I never allowed her to put any of the blame for this mess on me. Every time she tried to offer excuses, like how she was so lonely because we never saw each other due to our schedules, I always shifted the focus back to her and told her that while there were issues in our marriage that need to be addressed that none of them justify what she did and that the choice to have an affair was all hers.

It finally occurred to her to ask about how I found out about everything. I didn’t want to give up my sources, but I also didn’t want to lie to her. So, I told her that I found the emails and that I sent them to her bosses, OB’s dad, and OB’s fiancé. I told her that since then I had talked to OB’s dad and Meredith on the phone since then. She was furious that I was the one that told everyone at first. But, I told her that I would do whatever it took to fight for our marriage and that if she hadn’t been having an affair with a college kid that there would have been nothing for me to expose.

I know everyone said to keep my sources private, but I just didn’t want to lie to a direst question. How can I expect honesty if I’m not willing to give it? I didn’t tell her about the keylogger because she didn’t ask. I think she thinks I just stumbled across the email.

She seems to be in a better frame of mind this morning. The kids are home and she helped them get ready for school and interacted with them like normal. I guess we’ll see how things are going this evening. I feel like we made a lot of progress, but I still have a nagging feeling that I don’t know everything. I’m just not ready to fully trust her at this point. My plan at this point is to just be attentive to her for a few days and give both of us a break from the affair talk. I still have a lot of questions, but I can wait for a few days.

That sounds like a good start.

If you can accept the details she gives you at face value, great.

If you are more cynical, like I am, you're probably thinking about the "fact" that they slept together twice.

You just happened to catch them after the second one? If that's true, you are either the Sherlock Holmes of betrayed spouses, or she is one of the most inept wayward spouses ever.

MG,
A user named sickwithworry commented on one of my threads after I had posted that my wife confessed to sleeping with OM twice. He said:


The reasoning behind these words is sound. Its not guaranteed that she is lying about the frequency of the PA, but it is probable. Did you hear anything from OM's dad that indicated it was only twice? Two people in an affair will always find a time/place to have sex.

I would continue to do what you are doing by giving her breaks between the affair talks, but given the reasons she gave for her affair, I think a polygraph is in order for you to be sure this was the first time.