I agree with this. It is not a good idea at this point, but you may need it down the road.

Krazy,

I suppose I'm one of the few around here that relates well to your way of thinking.

Many here are WAY TOO passive in their handling of tough situations, and it shows in the results.

MB has an EXCELLENT plan for breaking up an A, but as has been pointed out very well on another thread, it has little to nothing to offer towards R UNLESS BOTH spouses are on board.

Breaking up the A is JOB 1, and this has been accomplished masterfully in this instance, but mg71 is still struggling with a unrepentent WW after being exposed a week ago. Experience shows that the odds of a successful R, go way down if the WW won't agree to NC and recommit IMMEDIATELY.

So to my mind, this means the BH should take his efforts to another level, because the results of mg71's efforts, while exemplary up to this point, have plateaued and he is beginning to find himself in "BH Limbo He11".

For a BH in his shoes ... now is not the time to take a breather ... NOW is the time to mash on the gas with righteous indignation. He needs to KNOW if he has a WW that is CAPABLE of R, and as of right now ... it doesn't look good, as it appears that he's dealing with an immature (not uncommon for her profession), selfish person that is too much into HERSELF.

I hope I'm wrong because of the GREAT EFFORTS of mg71 up to this point, but every day that she continues to pout and gaslight, the odds of success decrease. So until she shows some indication of remourse and recommitment, I'm with Krazy that all tactics should remain on the table as viable options, should they BECOME NECESSARY for mg71 to get at the truth, so he can make fully informed decisions about his future.

I am one of those few 2 and agree wholeheartedly!

Krazy,

It will not help the withdrawal process if all of a sudden her heart starts racing and the endorphins start saturating her brain again, that there may still be a chance.

Even if it is not the OB.

Like holding a glass of Laphroig, single malt scotch under the nose of an alcoholic that has been sober for 6 months.

Kinda.

kirk

True, but what better way to test the alcoholic's resolve? Are they serious about remaining sober or aren't they?

As a last resort tactic, you can glean information AND take a peek into what your WS is really thinking.

I heartily agree with this statement. I was one of the WAY too passive ones.

She's not had time to get through the first bits of withdrawal, so of course she's not capable of committing to R right now. While some waywards are immediately remorseful and contrite, I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule. Most continue to cake-eat (which his WW can't) and even those that commit to NC and R usually slip and have contact after the original NC letter is sent. I think she's very typical at this point.

If you spin the above lies you can count on them biting you later.

Reading these posts a question came across my mind

I agree that OB is neutralized for now. This has blown up in his face and is in major damage control. When reading his email I could almost hear the little boys voice crying about how he got caught and now he has an owie.

But now the question comes up. Something caused MGs wife to participate in this affair. So what is the risk of her replacing OB with some other dude?

Is it the person they get attached to or is it the attributes and the activities they get attached to. Will the desire to fill the part that was missing in her relationship with MG still be there, and will she keep looking for that with someone else?

Ideally MG will be able to address this through meeting her EN's but does this always work? I hope I have been able to explain this adequately. I am trying to determine in how many cases OM1 gets replaced with OM2 because of the excitement that the A generates.

And if this is the case how does MG emotionally protect himself. My heart is bleeding for MG right now but he is one smart guy, and his execution has been stellar, but this is not over.

What kind of time line will MG be looking at? I am intimately familiar with the emotional toll this takes on a person, and the way he has executed so far shows he is very strategic in his approach. So how does he prepare himself for what will be facing him over the next several months?

Sun Tsu says in the Art of War - Do not try to defeat your enemy - defeat your enemies strategy. In this case knowledge is power.

What else does MG need to prepare himself for?
Can he best be helped by getting a sense of the next phases?
A bit of a road map of how these scenarios play out?

I wished I could offer more. But I am learning through MG's experience here. I wished I had been as smart.

To me, gaining the knowledge you need is worth any fallout afterwards, including divorce.

I absolutely would not remain in my marriage if I hadn't gotten all of the answers I was looking for, sooner rather than later.

MG,

""Should I tell her that I know she’s still contacting him?""

I would say NO! NO! NO! (Amy Winehouse)

Since he has told her in no uncertain terms to pound sand up there with a rubber mallet, the full humiliation and realization of where she actually was in RRB's pecking order is going to come crashing down on her.

She should be so fricken peeoed at him that contacting him will be the last thing on her mind.

Plus it should totally help with her withdrawal.

I would NEVER let her know how you know so much. Even though this RRB is out of the picture, it will not hurt to keep in snooping mode.

Plan A your A off. Be the best darn husband, friend, companion, lover (?) you can be.

At some point before the lover part, the STD subject must be broached.....gently, but with concern for your health and safety, yes?

What to expect from her right now? Self pity, grief, fear of the unknown and future. What is going to happen now?

Total remorse and begging forgiveness would be nice! Maybe soon.

Stay strong. You are doing EXCELLENT

How are the children? Are they asking any questions?

kirk

See, I disagree with the premise of "withdrawal" in this instance. To my mind, this doesn't appear to be a "romantic affair" ... this was nothing more than playtime ... I've often heard it described as "Sport F*@#ing". In reality, she is just depressed over the fallout from being discovered and exposed, and is showing she is much more worried about her current status and future, than her BH or family.

Her emails don't indicate that she pining away for this boy, she's just trying to find out how deep of a pile she's stepped in.

... and in all honesty, its irrelevant. Regardless of "WHY" she won't re-engage in the marital relationship ... the reality of the situation remains the same ... every day she pouts and continues to gaslight mg71, the chances for a successful R DECREASES.

It has been pointed out that for WW's ... how they act IMMEDIATELY after discovery is the greatest indicator of future marital success, and this one is looking worse every day, in spite of mg71's SUPERIOR efforts.

I have also been worried all along that this wasn't a one time fling for her ... possibly this one "got to her" a little more ... but if I were mg71, I would be wondering if this was a single isolated instance or whether this was just the "boy toy of the year". I just don't see any semblence of remourse that I would expect from someone who just "made a mistake".

I totally agree with this post EXCEPT that I think for his wife, it may be that she was and is emotionally attached and had more feelings for the OB than the OB had for her. I also wonder if this was the only time this has happened....especially considering that she is around young handsome guys all the time. I do however think that there is hope....it just takes some WS's longer to come around.

I have been amazed at how well MG has handled all of this and if the outcome is positive it will surely be because he has done such a good job. My prayer is that it will be positive.

One thing that has surprised me is that it doesn't even seem like the wife is worried about the children not being home. Although he hasn't mentioned the kids and them being at the grandparents this week....I just know that if it were ME, I would be over there collecting my kids and being a mother to them. I do, however, understand that she is in the selfish mode that it definately takes to be in the situation she is in....but I just wondered about that and maybe he can address it later.

MyRev's points are well taken.

Fogfree came here within a few days, didn't she?

My H didn't.

MG's W isn't showing instant signs of remorse or wanting to change.

Withdrawal takes a long time, especially if they don't have a safe place to vent or seek help. (It took my H nearly 6 months to get through withdrawal even though he seemed remorseful.....would have been shorter had I found these forums sooner).

I still suggest do NOT create any lie that might hinder potential recovery later.

ETA: I not only created a fake email account to email WH pretending I was OW, I also used one of WH's secret email accounts to email OW, pretending that I was WH. It was my BS fog.... I now know, but I was desperate because I did not have MB at the time. MG has discovered MB at a time (I'm guessing) when many of us only wish we had done so in our own sitches.

Ace

You could be right ... I just don't see "romantic emotion" in her emails ... I see desperation to determine her status so she can cover her tracks with believable lies. In her emails, she nevers says "I miss you", or "I wish this would have worked out differently". They are all about "what did you tell them" and "how much do they know" type stuff.

You also make a very valid point about her maternal instincts ... I'm afraid this is a very "cold" woman indeed.

On the contrary and from a BTDT pov, if she hasn't already she is coming up with an email telling him exactly how she feels, telling him off and saying things along the lines of "Didn't this mean anything to you? Did you just use me?", etc, etc. I could be wrong, but I would lean toward this.


IMO, it's too early to help with her withdrawal. Due to the fact she sent 6 emails before he sent one she is in desperate need of a fix from him. His little reply, although a punch in the stomach, was a fix. She kept going until he replied. She may continue to do that.


I totally agree.

MG,

I know you stated somewhere that your children come home this weekend, are you going to be around? If your WW is in pity party mode she may not be giving them the best care. She may be short, distracted and so on. You need a back up plan if you are working.

IMO, it is time to talk about NC, about what it is going to take to recover your marriage and also talk to her about her job as a mom and taking care of the kids. Spell it out even though it's common sense. Infidelity often causes both BS's and WS's to lose their common sense.

You are doing great and I hope others are taking note that the way you are handling this is how it should be handled.

LC

Mgolfer,

While MyRev and I often don't see exactly eye to eye on how to proceed in some cases, I do think he and others have a very very valid point.

Now perhaps you have been so wrapped up in all of this, that you have not fully explained the conversations you are having with your W, but if she has not told you she is sorry, if she has not told you she wants to remain in this marriage, if she has not really focussed on the children yet...THEN THERE ARE MORE PROBLEMS.

Withdrawal is a valid and real issue, but one can be in withdrawal and still express remorse if for nothing else being caught. I don't get the idea she is focussed on anyone but herself.

If that is the case Mgolfer, she needs to know the meter is running. You need to sit down and talk with her parents about what is going on and what you fear (she doesn't care, she has done this before, she is showing no signs of wanting to even TRY to rebuild this marriage). I would be happier if she told you she did not want to because the plans here can address this.

MyRev and others may be right, some shock therapy may be required to get her to quit the CMA behavior and focus on the other shoe poised over her head. Perhaps her parents can convey your concerns. Perhaps you have been struggling with your anger so much that you have not adequately articulated your goals, your concerns, and the fact that the meter is running on this situation.

A week after d-day is NOT a long time for the WS to wallow in misery and dispair, but it seems a long time for her to have not addressed herself to some things such as you, her family, her children. Again, perhaps this has happened and we simply don't know about it. But, it would help us offer you advice if we knew the situation a bit better.

You cannot recover your marriage by avoiding her. You two need to talk, no LB's but that does not mean you cannot explain to her "how the cow ate the cabbage". Be firm, be concise, and avoid love busters while expressing your fears and struggle with this whole thing.

This affair may have only been a PA for a month or so, but they have been involved for much longer and as been mentioned Rah Rah may not have been the first.

Time to firm up your stance and your interactions with her. Running to the gym to cool off is NOT addressing this problem. It is not a bad idea but avoiding a serious discussion about what she wants is not going to cut it.

It seems to me she was emotionally involved with OM, she is trying to see what he told, but I suspect she was seeking support as well. I mean if women can fall in love with young teenage students with no hope of this kid supporting them, then the fact that he was just graduating from college may feed her fantasy.

Let us know what is going on, and start to engage your W in some serious discussions.

God Bless,

JL

Another reason I am strongly for the lie detector test. She did come home (but we do not know if that is b/c she wanted the Marriage or did not want to lose her job), but she has not shown one ounce of "want" to make the marriage work. Still early but if she does want the marriage she should be moving to the stage of Oh $hit I may be a divorced, single mother in a few months.

IMO, it's too early for that. Right now she is in pure panic mode and isn't thinking of anything else other than "How the heck am I going to spin this if I don't kwow what he knows?"

ETA: What I mean by too early is too early for her to be pinning.

No doubt they talked about what they would do/say if they got caught, but things aren't going the way they planned they would.

Just my 2 cents.

LC

I would venture a guess that she is a conflict-avoiding narcissist.

Don't take that as an insult, MG...I could write out a laundry list of my own wife's shortcomings, too.

LC,

Your insight may be dead on. MyRev suggests a more direct approach, I tend to go to the wait and see approach. However, in this case I think MyRev may be right. She needs some unfarnished truth told to her. The pity party needs to end with regard to making no commitments, handling the children, and other issues.

I would bet good money she is very very depressed right now. She lost her lover, Rah Rah. She lost her job/career. She lost the respect of her parents, and she has lost the respect of Mgolfer. Who knows how the children will react but in her pity party I would bet she thinks her marriage is over as well, thus she hurt the kids.

She may need help to deal with all of this. However, she also needs a "wake up" call from Mgolfer about deciding where she wants to spend her life and efforts. Step #1 is a No Contact letter from her to him.

Step #2 is probably counseling for both of them.

Step #3 is both Mgolfer and his W making decisions about how they want to shape the future or attempt to shape the future.

We'll see. I hope that some of what we all fear is just us not knowing that certain conversations have taken place between MG and his W.

God Bless,

JL