FH, congratulations with your 2 new grandchildren - a boy and girl, what a blessing!

Dealan-de, I will definitely keep your suggestion about the covers for the stroller and car seat in mind – actually it’s something I didn’t think off before, so thank you!

5 children – wow, I can just imagine how full you life must be with them! How many sons and/or daughters do you have?

Both my H and I don’t know how it feels to be in a big family. My H is the only child and I only have a younger brother. My H told me it was very lonely for him to be raised as a single child and he always wondered how it must be to have a brother/sister. Therefore, if it’s God will, we would like to be blessed with a 2nd “miracle” one day so that the little one we are expecting can have a little sister or brother…but that’s God decision alone and we will be happy/content whatever His decision/will for us!

I've 3 boys and 2 girls. The boys are 18, 8 and 4 and the girls are 12(35) and 5 (27).

I had lots of cousins who were like siblings, but it was just my sister and me.

My Wookie had 6 siblings.

My abode is noise and organized chaos until 8 pm (bedtime for the youngers).

We are in the process of building a new house. They begin framing next week...and can't move fast enough for my tastes. I can't wait to be able to tell them to go upstairs to play!

God is good Suz. He sees hard work and rewards accordingly. I know, cos the Wookie and I are livin' it!

May I suggest you register somewhere for your baby shower? That way you can pick out all the stuff you want and people can get you the right stuff. Then after the shower you can get the rest. I know you don't have a large family but one of the greatest things both sides of our family did was go in on the bigger ticket items. We got a cradle, infant seat with stroller, a swing (A God send) and a crib! I don't know how you feel about used stuff but here there a lot of places with almost new stuff at kids second hand stores. The only thing I would not get used is a car seat. They have a life span and they are constantly being updated with safety updates. I would suggest not getting a cradle but instead get a pack-n-play. You only use the cradle for a few months but the pack-n-play can be used for years. It can be used for a cradle, traveling and a play pen. There will be times like when you have to go to the bathroom and you need to put the baby down it is handy to have. There are so many new stuff out there now that wasn't available when I had kids. I got a boppy for the last one and that wasn't around when I had the first 3. It was wonderful to use when I breastfed her.

I am so happy for you! I saw a newborn the other day and I just wanted to take that baby and hold it....sigh, I miss that new baby smell. As you can see from my sig my youngest is 6. The years go by so fast!

You got one up on me! I thought you comment on the girls ages and real ages was funny. We have 12 and 6 year old girls that act like they are 30.

I am number 4 of 6 and DH is 9 of 9 so we are used to all the "excitement" around the house. I am a SAHM and when they all went off to school this fall the house was TOO quiet!

Update:

Everything is still going well with the developing baby and I’m now almost in my 27th week of pregnancy. I can’t believe time has passed by so fast and that I will enter the last (3rd) trimester soon! During the last scan (on 25 weeks) our little boy measured 750 gram (1.65 pound) already and the doctor was 100% satisfied with the growth etc.

On a negative side: My sleeping problem has gotten worse over the past 3 few weeks and as a result I became extremely exhausted, stressed and the mood fluctuations intensified. The doctor prescribed some sleeping pills and said it will be safe to use if I don’t take it more than 2 times a week to get some relief. It helped a bit during the few times I’ve taken it, but I still waked up often during the night and felt exhausted (and sometimes unable to go to work) the next morning.

Early this week I made an appointment with my physiatrist and after an evaluation he advised me to go back on anti-depressants. He said the sleeping problem (and other problems I also experience) is directly related to the depression that has returned after I’ve stopped the medication earlier this year. He said the risks to the baby if the depression and related stress/anxiety become worse outweigh the small risk the anti-depressant might have for the baby. He prescribed me the SSRI medication Zoloft - the same class anti-dep I previously used (Cipramil) but with a smaller risk to the baby. He prescribed the lowest dose together with a light sleeping aid I can use together with Zoloft for the next 2 weeks.

He advised me to use Zoloft for the remainder of the pregnancy and then weans it off approximately 2 weeks before the baby will be born to avoid any withdrawal symptoms for the baby. He said I will not necessarily be at risk for post-natal depression directly or a certain period after birth and therefore, if I want to breastfeed, I should try to stay of the anti-depressant as long as possible during breastfeeding. It seems Zoloft is relatively safe to use during pregnancy because it doesn’t cross the placenta as readily as the other SSRI’s, but some of it (a small percentage) are excreted into breast milk.

I hate the fact to be back on anti-dep’s while I’m still pregnant, but I realize I must do what is best for me and my baby so me and my H have carefully considered and decided to follow the physiatrist’s advice.

Are you still working?

In my last trimester I had to only work half days and be on rest for the rest of the day.

Is that an option for you?

It sounds like you could use all the rest you can get right now, even if it's not sleeping.

(((Suz)))

Dealan-de,

Yes, I’m still working. The institution I’m working for will close on 12 December and re-open in January, but I’m not going to return in January (the baby will be due towards the end of January).

I don’t know if the half day work from now until we close in Dec will be an option for me, but it’s something I can discuss with my line-managers.

Dealan-de, did you get a motivation letter from your doctor to do this (the afternoon rest) or was it an internal arrangement between you and your superiors/line-managers?

Yea! You are almost 2/3 of the way there. You are already past the critical part so that must make you feel some relief.

I know you didn’t want to go back on medication but I think it is great that you and your DH really talked about what was best for the family. You and your DH are the ones that know what is best. Good luck!

My doc recommended it.

Well Suamico, after I’ve spoken to my GP (house doctor) yesterday after I’ve posted here, I really don’t know if following the psychiatrist advice will indeed be the right course of action anymore...

According to the psychiatrist, the medication won’t have a high risk for the baby, but according to research I’ve done on the Internet yesterday about SSRI’s and pregnancy, it seems SSRI’s might have additional others risks as well than those that are generally known amongst doctors. Many baby’s who are born to women who are using these type of medication throughout their pregnancies, are healthy and doesn’t have any problems, but what about the possible long term effects that might have an influence much later in childhood or adolescence? It seems there is not really research on this (possible long term effects).

I wanted to speak to both my GP and Gynecologist yesterday and inform them about the psychiatrist recommendations. The Gyn wasn’t available but I could get hold of the GP. My GP was VERY upset and said he doesn’t agree with the psychiatrist recommendations AT ALL and that he doesn’t believe any pregnant woman should take ANY of such medication especially before the 34th week of pregnancy… He did not explain his reasons but was very firm about this. He said I should speak to my Gyn and the Gyn should make the final decision, but he made it very clear that even if the Gyn would agree to it, he doesn’t think it will be the right thing to do.

I feel very upset and confused about all of this. I’m going to make an urgent appointment with my Gyn today and hear what he has to say (my H will go with me)... After some things I’ve read on the Internet and my GP’s reaction, I really doubt if I should continue with the medication at all... Before I’ve spoken to my GP today, I felt relatively okay and at peace with the decision to go back on the meds but now... I’ve made it this far in the pregnancy (6 months) without any medication and why should I take a risk when I only have 3 months left and already waited 12 years for this miracle to happen? The psychiatrist said all the symptoms I experience (sleeplessness, total loss of libido, tiredness, mood fluctuations etc.) are all a result of the depression that has started to return, but according to what I’ve read those can all be attributed to the pregnancy due to hormonal changes as well… The fact is, I was totally fine for the first 2 or 3 months after I’ve stopped the medication and didn’t even have any withdrawal symptoms from it... H and I have spoken again yesterday afternoon and we both think maybe the best course of action right now will be to stop the medication right away and ask the Gyn to book me off work for the rest of pregnancy (it’s only 6 weeks until the institution will close for December) so that I can take the time to relax and rest at home and prepare for the baby’s arrival…and when I’m not able to sleep for most of the night, at least I will not have to worry of going to work the next day exhausted and tired. I will go to my Gyn today and discuss this option with him.

If there are any people on this board with knowledge and/or experience about his matter, I would like to hear from it.

I haven't read your thread completely (and I don't post much anymore due to OW and her prying eyes)...but I do have first-hand experience with SSRI's and pregnancy.

I have been taking Prozac for almost 20 years. I take it for OCD, but it helps others with depression. I take 20-40 mg per day.

When I got pregnant, we discussed the option of me going off of my meds. Pregnant bodies have been known to do miraculous things and be able to handle all sorts of challenges that they normally cannot handle. We thought that I might be able to handle it without the meds. My doc was the head of OB at a prominent hospital and he said that in his experience there have been little, if any, adverse affects from mother's taking SSRI's during pregnancy and breast-feeding.

While he understood the desire to avoid medications if possible, my doctor asked me to think of it this way. When I protect myself from harm, I protect my baby from harm. For me, taking my meds was protection from harm. I was better off taking them than stopping. You have to decide how important it is to YOUR well being to continue your meds. Can you care for yourself (thus caring for your baby) without taking them? If not, then you need to continue to take them. Your baby needs a healthy mommy. You have to take care of you first or else the baby has no chance at all.

Hugs,
MS

MogiSola, thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it!

I originally started taking SSRI’s more than 5 years ago for OCD with associated depression and anxiety, but this is the first time in my life I experience a severe problem with insomnia and I wonder if it could be related to the pregnancy only. According to the psychiatrist it’s not, but even during the most stressed periods in my life and during the times I was depressed (before I started with the Anti-Dep) I never had a real problem with sleeplessness. Only for a few days or so, but then my sleeping pattern would return to normal. Originally when I started taking the SSRI, I struggled with sleep (as a side effect) for the first 4 months of use – I would sleep and wake up in the early morning hours but after that I was able to sleep again until the morning.

I’m using the Zoloft for the past 2 days now and even with the sleeping pill the doctor gave me, I can’t sleep more than 3,5 hours a night. I went to sleep at 10:00 pm for the past 2 nights (after I’ve taken the sleeping pill) and then woke up around 1:30 and not been able to get back to sleep again. I don’t really felt tired when I woke up during the past 2 nights but by the time I go to work I feel very tired and sluggish.

MogiSola, did you ever struggle with prolonged insomnia from the 2nd trimester of your pregnancy (especially during the time you've stopped taking the Prozac)?

Suzette--I have not read this whole thread, and I'm not going to do it tonight either, since I've got a grandkid with me that needs lights out. But it sounds to me like you may be correct that the pregnancy itself is responsible for some of your symptoms, exacerbated by fatigue from lack of sleep. Going off work is a good idea, I think, and you can then nap during the day as needed. Ambien is commonly given during pregnancy for sleep; it would be best not to take it as a regular thing, but it's still a frequently-prescribed drug. The other option for you is Benadryl (or whatever local drug store equivalent of the generic Diphenhydramine is available). This antihistamine comes in 25mg tablets or capsules, and a dose of one or two at bedtime is the recommended dose for adults. It also is used frequently in pregnancy.

If lack of sleep is your underlying cause of symptoms, then correcting that alone may take care of the whole thing for you. It's certainly worth a try. I see this as a sequence, which you've already begun: (1) Off work, (2) easier to meet sleep requirements by resting as needed instead of having to keep to a schedule (3) if frequent naps don't help then either the over-the-counter (Benadryl) or prescription (Ambien/Zolpidem) sleep aids may be useful, (4) antidepressants if above measures are unsuccessful or if your symptoms worsen and you start feeling dangerous to yourself.

I've just had to go on permanent disability after 40 years of nursing, 30 of it in labor and delivery. I have NOBODY to give advice to and would be happy to answer questions for you between visits. Many doctors tend to have a tendency to prescribe medication for everything. I think consulting with your OB about this is a good idea. Now go to bed and get some sleep!

T&L is one of my angels, Suz.

Are you exercising at all?

I swam every day with my 2nd pg - even the day I went in to labor - and it was the EASIEST pg I had.

There are quite a few stretching techniques out there for pregnant gals - and a good bout of stretching a few hours before bedtime HELPS TONS.

Chamomile is good for relaxation...infact there are a few sleepy time teas that help one to relax. Stay away from any that have raspberry in it, tho. Raspberry can cause contractions.

If your dh is home when you go to bed, ask him to massage you with cool rosemary water (regular tap water that has had rosemary sprigs soaking in it). It is VERY relaxing. Have him stay away from your footerpegs, though. There are some massage points on the soles of the feet that, when stimulated, can also cause contractions.

With my 3rd pg, I had trouble with staying asleep. Believe it or not, it's pretty common. It's the way God made us so that we would be "trained" to be on the baby's call (dang kids). Sadly, some of us don't grow out of it the way the babies do.

I know you're exhausted and worried, but that's an oroborous...it won't end unless YOU change something to take the tail out of the mouth.

I'm still with T&L on maybe getting a doc's permission to take off work so you can rest. Even if you're not sleeping all the way through the night, laying down and RESTING during the day will help you (boring as it is...)

I'm also with Mori (sp) - you need to take care of yourself because YOU are the only one that can take care of mijo right now. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure after my 2nd pg, so with my 3rd we had to dink around with meds till we found one that both worked and were safe for baby. You do what you can to be healthy and safe. Okay? It's a must. If you don't take care of you, NO ONE can take care of baby.

All my love,
Kimmy

Hey Suzet, if you can't sleep, then at least get your feet up and rest as much as possible. With my first pregnancy I developed a terrible itch over my torso and legs. I could literally have ripped my skin off it was so bad. It was worse at night and a cool bath was about the only thing that soothed it. It was weird - no noticeable rash but it plagued me throughout the pregnancy. It was probably the first time I ever experienced insomnia although it had a noticeable cause. It disappeared almost as soon as the baby was born and then I couldn't sleep either!

With my second pregnancy, (twins) I looked like a beached whale and developed fluidy ankles that were the same width as my thighs. I couldn't sleep because I just couldn't get comfortable - there was a constant battle for space and a pain in my groin that was excrutiating and wouldn't allow me to lie back. I couldn't even lie properly on the operating table for the C-section - they had to manoeuvre me into position after they'd knocked me out. No itch this time though!

I had terrible pregnancies. I probably had one healthy month in both. Loads of sickness at the start, a grace period where I 'bloomed' and then it was all downhill until the birth. But hey, I got babies at the end of it. They're great.

Edited to add: I hope you do get some time off if you feel really run down. Given that you waited so long for this baby, you should do anything and everything to look after yourself. Take care Suzet.

Suzet -

I had a major problem with sleeplessness after d-day. Not immediately after, but a few months in. One thing that I did was shift my meds to the morning. I'm not sure if they were really the factor causing sleeplessness, but it eventually worked itself out. I think there were a few weeks where I slept off and on a matter of mere hours.

As for during pregnancy, I don't know that I really slept much at all in the second trimester. It was not drug related though. I was HUGE and pretty much had to sleep in the lazyboy to sleep at all. I also had really rough pregnancies due to toxemia (not related to meds at all). Sometimes I think that the sleeplessness is boot camp for when the baby comes. It's amazing how little you can live on.

What is your stress level at the moment? Scale of 1 to 10? Have you tried joining a water aerobics class or walking in the evening? Sometimes exercise helps to get those good sleep vibes going.

MS

Thndrnltng, I will certainly make use of your offer to ask questions as needed – thank you!

I talked with my GO yesterday and he advised me to stay on the medication as prescribed by the psychiatrist. He said Zoloft only have a very small risk and that he agrees with psychiatrist that it will be better for me to go back on meds (considering my previous history of depression, anxiety etc.)

I’m not totally convinced that this is the best course of action because I still think that lack of sleep is my underlying cause of symptoms, but I’ve decided to trust the judgment of both the doctors and do as they say. If I think back, my mood fluctuations and feelings of mild stress/anxiety started just before the sleeplessness first occurred, so I do think that returning symptoms after I’ve went of the meds is a contributing factor. The GO booked me off for the rest of this week and the whole of next week to get some rest. If there isn’t a great improvement with the sleep within the next week I will ask the GO to book me off for another week and/or discuss the possibility with my line-mangers to work only half day until the institution close in December.

I also phoned the psychiatrist yesterday and told him that the temporary sleeping pill he prescribed (Normison 20 mg) wasn’t really helpful during the past few nights. He explained that sleeplessness is a very common temporary side effect of Zoloft during the first 1 or 2 weeks of use and that I must give it some time. Although I couldn’t sleep during the day at home yesterday, I did have a lot of rest by just laying down and it helped a lot.

Thndrnltng, do you think the temporary sleeping pill the doctor gave me (Normison 20 mg) is okay and safe for pregnancy? The psychiatrist told me it is when I asked him, but I just want you opinion as well.

Do you know the products Imovane (Zopiclone) and Aterax (Hydroxyzine)? The GO prescribed them to me during two different occasions to help with sleep (before I visited the psychiatrist). The Aterax (considered to be safe during pregnancy and often prescribed during pregnancy) just helped to calm me down but didn’t really help with sleep (I still woke up often during the night and felt very drowsy and tired the next day). The Imovane did help me to sleep, but since the GO said I must not use it more than 2x a week and only if really necessary, I only used it 2 times since it is a “category C risk” medication for pregnancy and I’m very careful to take anything that might be a risk. What is your knowledge about the use of Imovane during pregnancy? I looked up on the Internet and it seems that Ambien and Imovane belong to a similar class of sleeping medication? In the meantime I have also tried "natural" things like milk with vanilla and honey before bedtime, Chamomile tea when I woke up at night and can't sleep etc., but it only help to a small extend.

The last question I have for you: What is your experience as a nurse on a normal/vaginal delivery with the first child after the age of 35? I’m 35 now and will be 36 years next year March. The baby will be born during January next year. Do you think I might have a good chance of having a successful “normal” delivery in spite of my age or are there some risks involved for women who have their first delivery at this age?

In our country a woman have a choice between normal delivery and C-section and that’s why I’m asking.Even if the doctor indicates that normal delivery will be possible, a woman can still choose to have a C-section if she has a medical aid or is financially able to pay for the operation. It’s only in the Government hospitals in our country (where people are financially disabled and dependent on free medical care from the Government) that a C-section will be done only if there are serious complications with normal delivery.

I would prefer to have a normal delivery if possible because that’s “natural” and the way God intended it to be. But if it might be a risk and will be best for me and baby to have a C-section, I will do so. My doctor said he can only make a final judgment about this from 36 weeks.

Dealan-de/Kimmy,

Yes, usually I do some exercise, but after the sleeplessness had worsened during the past 3 weeks, I have only done a very limited amount of exercise because of the tiredness. But now that I will be home the rest of this week and next week, I will do some exercise during the day. I do know exercise is great for sleep and to improve mood. I have an exercise video with strengthening and stretching exercises that can also be used by pregnant woman. I usually do it in the mornings, but I will switch to evenings and see if it helps.

I have tried the Chamomile and it does help me to relax if I feel tensed (it doesn’t help me to get back to sleep though!) . In our country there is also a great tea – Rooibos with Chamomile – and it tastes very good with honey and milk.

Thanks for the hint about the massage – my H is very lazy when it comes to massages, but I will show your post to motivate him somewhat!

Kimmy, also see my post to T&L above please.

Thanks for your care and concern, it means much to me!

Tucktummy,

Other than my problem with the sleep, I can’t complain about any other problems so far in my pregnancy. I haven’t yet experience any serious physical uncomfortable symptoms like back pain, swelling, heartburn etc. Even the nausea I experienced during the first 3 months were mild and did not prevent me from following a healthy diet. I try to eat as healthy as I can and I make sure to take all my vitamin supplements every day. I try to avoid “bad” things like caffeine, refined sugar and carbohydrates to the minimum. I still allow myself to eat some chocolate though (I can't do without it!) but not too late in the day since that can cause problems with sleep too. My weight gain has also been moderate so far (within the “healthy” measures for pregnancy). I must say, if it wasn’t for the problems I currently have with the sleep etc., it would otherwise be a “dream” pregnancy.