When I tell H what we're doing, he rarely listens unless, like your H, he is invested in whatever it is. He sponsored an annual tennis tournament in the past, and took D18, and he was basically BMOC for these events - he got a ton of admiration and attention from it; he always picked her up on time for those. But when she was taking drum lessons last year - every Monday from 5:30 to 6pm, he would call me around 5:45-6pm nearly every single week on Monday, and ask where we are (because I wasn't answering the phone at home). This went on all year, even when I reminded him in the morning.

Dinner, we just start eating. We used to wait for him, but if we did that, he got even more enjoyment out of it and would wait even longer. Obviously, he's getting a need for admiration or something out of knowing we need him or are waiting for him. So that is one instance in which I did establish a boundary. I tell him 10 minutes before it's ready; I tell him 5 minutes before it's ready. Then I say it's ready, and we sit down to eat with or without him.

I've been trying to meet his A need more so that this becomes a non-issue, but I can only do so much before I get bitter about it being all one-sided again.

Cat, bitter about it being one-sided? Does that mean you're moving from State Of Withdrawal, where you don't care if he meets your needs or not, to State of Conflict, where you are interested in him meeting your needs?

*blushing*

Yeah, a little bit.

I think I've said it before, maybe not, but it seems to me that your H's actions are very passive aggressive. That's why I think it would be enormously freeing if you were to say in a way, ok fine, if that's your choice; but I'm not going to let it hurt *me*.

It seems when you stand up to him, he makes a genuine effort to be better. I bet it wouldn't take very many times of him getting left behind for him to turn the tv off in time to go with you and DD someplace.

If she goes away to college, the dynamic of the house is going to be so different. Are you preparing for that?

Oh, gee thanks for bringing that up, lol!

No, I haven't even thought about it. Don't want to.

I don't know. I'll miss her severely, but on the other hand, instead of having to spread myself between H and D18 and maybe having a sliver of time for me, I just might finally be able to be more about me. Instead of going in to work early so I can be home as soon after she gets out of school as possible, I can start going to the gym in the morning and working later. That will be great.

But thanks for the reminders everyone. Sometimes I lose course.

Sorry for bringing it up if you're trying to not think about it! lol It's probably sorta like asking someone in grad school "So, how's the thesis coming?"

Which may be about as endearing as asking a woman when she's due... to find out she's "just fat and forty!" as a friend of mine once answered!

cat: LOL on your comment on another thread about politicians!!!!!


You are soooo much more patient than I am. I am now just a spectator, I couldn't handle the heat. The doublespeak.

OMG, I know! That thread drives me in circles! I think it's only because I'm so stubborn that I'm determined to find a way in, you know? At least we've finally accidentally discovered that there really ARE problems in that marriage. I just wish he could tear away all those layers of self protection.

I think I know which one you're talking about. I was trying to get him to correct me, but not sure he will. You can only help people who really want to be helped.

He needs to start being human and honest if I'm going to be spending much more time on that particular thread.

I think he's quite likely high profile and is intentionally being evasive, but he could always change his name. We'd find him again.

If so (high profile) then I can't blame him for being evasive. I guess I just assumed no real ____ would actually call themselves "____". But maybe if the first time you logged on you were upset and tired, you might make a poor choice in username.

With the phraseology I wonder if the poster's native language is not English; or if there's some Asperger's influence; or if their culture is very male-dominated with submissive wives, like Asian for instance. I've asked, in ways that I thought could've been answered without giving away too much personal identification. IMHO, some of the statements are indicative of NPD or some other disorder (maybe Asperger's) if the person is from the same cultural background as I am. But I've tried to be very general in my questions, because I understand wanting to protect anonymity. I'm not trying to "diagnose" anyone just to force labels, but it is helpful I've found in order to know how to respond.

Every now and then I read something that makes me think maybe I can get through. It's teasing me.

I can tell he's in pain. I guess that's what keeps me going. But you can only do so much. It's like it's taken us this long just to get that his wife is doing something.

Just had to vent somewhere. D18 finally got her drivers license this week. Put her on the insurance. Today, she drove to work at the mall by herself - first time alone in the car. I had no idea this would be so stressful!

It's a rite of passage, you will survive...

(I don't mean to sound trite, just trying to offer comfort and encouragement!)

Just think, now she won't have to be "trapped" into sitches like last weekend.

D18 asked if she could take the car to see exbf, who's down in the dumps, and H started right in on him again, nonstop, about what a piece of crap he was. For example, he lost his waiter job, and I asked D18 if she told him about Target hiring, and H said 'he won't want that job, he's too lazy; he just wants a job like a waiter where he doesn't have to work as hard, makes more money, and doesn't claim his earnings on taxes.'

So D18 got onto H about always putting exbf down; he kept on. So she said 'Fine. I'm leaving. I don't want to hear this any more.' When he realized she left, and I told him why, he was upset. I said, 'and you wonder why she doesn't want to talk to you?'

So he took my phone and went outside and called her. I listened in a little, and he was trying to take back what he said a little, explain why he was worried and didn't like exbf. So her taking a stand and leaving had a good impact on him.

So I made a point of being wonderful Sunday, asking H if he wanted to go grocery shopping with me (he used to love to do it), and then making lunch, and then spending the rest of the day working outside with him, sanding car parts and pulling weeds and such. At lunch time, I asked him if he would hang something up today that I had bought a couple years ago to go in the bathroom (I had asked him a couple times before, and it never got hung). I brought it out, laid it on the couch where he was watching tv, asked him, and he acknowledged me and nodded his head yes, he would hang it up for me.

So the day went on, working on the car and in the yard. Worked til 6 or 7, when I made dinner, we ate, watched more tv, snuggled, still no hanging up. He fell asleep on the couch. Until he woke up later and proceeded to engage me in his kind of SF; I'm thinking I've done my best to make this as good a day as possible for him, surely he will do something for me.

So this morning, I picked it up off the floor where he had put it, and laid it on the bed so he would remember - yeah, I know...PA behavior; but I was trying to remind him without nagging. Today, he gets home from work, I made dinner, we sat and watched tv, snuggled (his EN) again, and he fell asleep once again.

So after he slept for a couple hours, I went and got all the stuff I figured I would need to hang it up, and spent about an hour trying to get it hung up. Not a very good job, as I couldn't figure out how to use his electric drill, and I couldn't figure out how to hang those little plastic inserts in the wall for sturdiness, but it's hung.

I don't know if I'm supposed to feel guilty for doing this, knowing it will/may make him feel guilty, or if I'm supposed to feel good about it, for taking charge of my life.

Am I the only one whose husband falls asleep the minute he sits on the couch or lays on the bed (unless he wants sex)?

I think you should feel terrific for taking the initiative and the responsibility for doing something that you wanted done!!! You asked him, you asked in a non-LB way, you met his ENs, you reminded him as best you could without nagging. You must assume that he's an adult with two working ears, right? so it was his choice to not do it. You don't have to feel guilty; it was his choice. He chose not to, so you did what you wanted done. He could've done it had he wanted to.

If he tries to make him feel guilty, you can tell him that you asked and he had the chance, and he made the choice; so you accepted his choice, and did it yourself.

Hi Cat, I'm with Jayne that you did the right thing. The only improvement I could suggest is a timeframe. "Will you hang this picture" is pretty open-ended. Maybe "will you hang that picture this weekend?" is more specific.

Keep up the good work, and don't worry about whether you are being passive aggressive. You asked him, you reminded him about it once (more than that would probably be nagging), and then you took care of it yourself.

Thanks guys. What I actually said when I brought it into the room is, "Will you do something for me today?" (nods head yes) "Will you hang this up for me in the bathroom above the window?" (nods head yes) "Thanks, I really appreciate it."

Cat, you know myschae, right? She and another poster mineownself were the gurus of explaining POJA. If your H doesn't hang the thing, then he wasn't enthusiastic. You guys go back to the drawing board, brainstorm with abandon, come up with what would make him enthusiastic about him hanging it, what would make you enthusiastic about you hanging it.

And if you find over time that he backs out of agreements after enthusiasm ahead of time, then he goes first, while he's still enthusiastic.

And Jayne, if you're reading, too, this is why I think y'all would benefit from the Love Busters book. To see in detail with great examples what the thoughtful request, respectful persuasion, and POJA look like in action.

But what if he's never enthusiastic, about anything I want? I know I need to talk to him better, so I guess I could have said, if I help you with the car will you hang this? But based on 30 years of experience, he still wouldn't have hung it. Then I would have to go back and say 'I thought we had reached an agreement, is there a problem...'

I don't know. I know I was uncomfortable taking care of it because I recognized my PA behavior. I guess I need to go back and reread that book. Maybe a year's perspective will make more sense now.