Hello Pot. The TOTAL cost of the legal profession on the medical system is less than 1% whereas the health insurance industry's cost is around 30% plus.
Exactly WHO is the greedy?
What do you propose happen to injured persons?
You also fail to realize, medical malpractice insurance in a single-payor health system would be DRAMITICALLY cheaper because you've now removed the cost of future medical care out of the personal injury award calculations.
Finally, I AM NOT A MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ATTORNEY so their greediness or lack thereof has nothing to do with my opinions Okay, you like to shout to get your "point" across.
But let's get your questions addressed, hmmmm.
Exactly WHO is the greedy?You really don't know what Claims Loss ratios are do you?
You really don't know that each and every insurance plan is REGULATED by the State Insurance Commissioners, do you?
You really don't understand that rates are approved and controlled by the government, do you?
Earlier, on another thread, I posted the North Carolina rates for the State provided insurance plan for people who are "high risk," namely, those persons with serious medical conditions that can't qualify for "regular insurance" because the costs of treating their conditions is KNOWN to be very high.
What you need to take note of is that the plan AND the rates are established by the government, not by any insurance company. The State selected the company to administer the plan, but the government set up the plan and the rates for the plan.
But in case you missed it, I will reproduce it here for you.
But just to give you an example of how the Government will "address" this issue and make sure that the people who can't qualify for regular health insurance because of their "unhealthy condition," let me share with you the Premium RATE Structure for GUARANTEED COVERAGE. ONLY those people who ARE "unhealthy" can get this insurance. The "healthy folks" have to stay with their employer or individual plans.
I am only including the rates up to age 64, even though the plan does give rates for up to age 99, because MOST people WILL go on Medicare when they turn 65.
Non-Smoker
AGE Plan A -- $1,000 Plan B -- $2,500 Plan C – $5,000 HDHP
.......Male..Female...Male...Female...Male...Female
0-1--- $432-- $433--- $326--- $327--- $217-- $218--
2-12--$228-- $228--- $172--- $173--- $115--- $115--
13-17-$254-- $252--- $192--- $191--- $128--- $127
18-----$270-- $271--- $196--- $245--- $136--- $135
19-----$271-- $286--- $198--- $257--- $136--- $154
20-----$276-- $299--- $204--- $268--- $137--- $168
21-----$277-- $313--- $208--- $280--- $140--- $184
22-----$278-- $366--- $209--- $321--- $141--- $195
23-----$281-- $372--- $211--- $325--- $143--- $202
24-----$283-- $377--- $213--- $329--- $145--- $208
25-----$286-- $384--- $216--- $339--- $147--- $214
26-----$289-- $391--- $218--- $344--- $150--- $220
27-----$292-- $399--- $220--- $350--- $152--- $225
28-----$296-- $424--- $223--- $369--- $155--- $230
29-----$304-- $438--- $230--- $379--- $159--- $235
30-----$311-- $457--- $235--- $384--- $162--- $241
31-----$320-- $465--- $241--- $390--- $167--- $246
32-----$329-- $476--- $247--- $399--- $172--- $252
33-----$337-- $485--- $253--- $405--- $177--- $258
34-----$347-- $493--- $260--- $411--- $183--- $264
35-----$358-- $502--- $268--- $399--- $188--- $270
36-----$369-- $511---- $275--- $406--- $194--- $276
37-----$381-- $525--- $283--- $417--- $201--- $282
38-----$394-- $540--- $294--- $428--- $210--- $291
39-----$408-- $553--- $306--- $438--- $220--- $300
40-----$425-- $566--- $318--- $434--- $230--- $308
41-----$439-- $579--- $330--- $444--- $239--- $317
42-----$454-- $600--- $343--- $459--- $240--- $326
43-----$475-- $618--- $356--- $473--- $253--- $335
44-----$496-- $636--- $371--- $487--- $265--- $344
45-----$523-- $653--- $385--- $497--- $280--- $356
46-----$548-- $672--- $399--- $511--- $295--- $368
47-----$574-- $681--- $417--- $518--- $310--- $381
48-----$606-- $704--- $440--- $535--- $327--- $393
49-----$637-- $725--- $464--- $550--- $344--- $405
50-----$676-- $755--- $492--- $569--- $361--- $417
51-----$716-- $786---- $520--- $589--- $378--- $426
52-----$757-- $793--- $549--- $592--- $396--- $436
53-----$800-- $830--- $580--- $620--- $416--- $448
54-----$845-- $866--- $612--- $648--- $437--- $460
55-----$886-- $902--- $641--- $673--- $456--- $473
56-----$924-- $931--- $669--- $697--- $476--- $486
57-----$967-- $949--- $700--- $710--- $499--- $501
58-----$1,022 $992--- $740--- $743--- $528--- $517
59-----$1,078 $1,036- $781--- $777--- $559--- $534
60-----$1,139 $1,084- $826--- $811--- $589--- $550
61-----$1,198 $1,129- $869--- $837--- $621--- $568
62-----$1,258 $1,119- $912--- $846--- $654--- $586
63-----$1,297 $1,171- $940--- $878--- $691--- $615
64-----$1,340 $1,225- $970--- $918--- $731--- $645
Smoker
AGE Plan A -- $1,000 Plan B -- $2,500 Plan C – $5,000 HDHP
Male Female Male Female Male Female
0-1 $570 $572 $431 $432 $287 $288
2-12 $301 $302 $227 $228 $151 $152
13-17 $335 $333 $253 $252 $169 $168
18 $357 $358 $259 $323 $179 $178
19 $357 $378 $262 $339 $180 $203
20 $364 $395 $270 $354 $181 $221
21 $365 $413 $274 $369 $185 $243
22 $367 $484 $276 $424 $186 $258
23 $370 $490 $279 $429 $189 $266
24 $374 $497 $282 $435 $192 $274
25 $378 $507 $285 $447 $194 $282
26 $382 $516 $288 $454 $197 $290
27 $385 $526 $291 $462 $201 $297
28 $390 $560 $295 $487 $204 $304
29 $401 $579 $303 $500 $210 $311
30 $411 $603 $311 $507 $214 $318
31 $422 $614 $318 $515 $220 $325
32 $434 $628 $326 $526 $227 $332
33 $445 $640 $334 $535 $234 $340
34 $458 $651 $343 $543 $241 $348
35 $473 $662 $353 $527 $248 $356
36 $488 $674 $363 $536 $256 $364
37 $503 $693 $374 $550 $265 $372
38 $520 $713 $388 $565 $278 $384
39 $539 $730 $404 $578 $291 $395
40 $561 $747 $420 $573 $303 $407
41 $580 $764 $436 $586 $316 $419
42 $599 $792 $453 $607 $317 $431
43 $627 $816 $471 $625 $333 $443
44 $655 $839 $489 $642 $350 $454
45 $690 $862 $508 $656 $370 $470
46 $724 $888 $527 $675 $389 $486
47 $758 $899 $551 $684 $409 $503
48 $800 $929 $581 $706 $431 $519
49 $841 $957 $612 $727 $454 $535
50 $893 $997 $649 $751 $476 $551
51 $945 $1,037 $686 $778 $498 $563
52 $999 $1,047 $725 $781 $522 $575
53 $1,057 $1,095 $766 $818 $549 $591
54 $1,115 $1,144 $808 $856 $576 $607
55 $1,169 $1,191 $847 $888 $602 $624
56 $1,219 $1,229 $883 $920 $628 $641
57 $1,277 $1,252 $924 $937 $659 $661
58 $1,349 $1,309 $977 $981 $697 $683
59 $1,424 $1,367 $1,031 $1,026 $737 $705
60 $1,504 $1,430 $1,090 $1,070 $778 $727
61 $1,582 $1,491 $1,147 $1,116 $820 $750
62 $1,661 $1,477 $1,204 $1,105 $863 $773
63 $1,713 $1,546 $1,241 $1,158 $913 $812
64 $1,768 $1,617 $1,281 $1,212 $964 $851
Now these rates are PER PERSON PER MONTH. (Sorry, I didn't want to take the time to space out the Smoker rates so they would be easier to read on the UBB format.)
Obviously, just as I do every day, it would make "sense" to have healthy family members on their own "lower cost" individual health plan and to only have the "unhealthy" person on such a "guaranteed coverage" plan such as this.
Regardless of your opinion, however, I want you to SEE that this IS a Government run, Government sanctioned plan and that the RATES are not "cheap." Even the government recognizes that the plan will not work if it is NOT funded, and they WILL make you pay for it. And if not YOU, as Obama would like, then EVERYONE WILL PAY. Do you REALLY believe that you won't pay REALLY HIGH "premiums," errrr, Taxes, in order to support Nationalized Healthcare?
Now, Mr. Wondering, the rates are "lower" for non-smokers and "higher" for smokers because of the known risk of smoking on health, and the attendant high costs of treating those problems.
IF the government was really interested in "lowering the cost of healthcare," why don't you think that they would simply BAN smoking? Oh, I forgot, they get a LOT of TAX money from the tobacco tax to help pay for "other things" the government wants to do.
But regardless, the rates for the non-smokers are NOT "cheap" by any means for anyone.
THAT is the tacit admission of government that providing healthcare to everyone is NOT cheap, even if the government is providing it.
Why do you think that is?
Now, IF you do want a government run, government funded, government controlled healthcare system, we already have one that can be looked at as a "current model."
It's called MEDICAID. Anyone on Medicaid receives virtually any medical care they need and they don't have to pay for it, not for the coverage and not for the charges.
GUESS what is close to "bankrupting" a lot of States? The Medicaid entitlement system.
But then it is for people who do not have the income or assets to pay for it on their own.
You would simply like to see that same sort of system applied to everyone.
There IS no "free lunch."
What IS the true cost to provide health care? Why don't you ask the Doctors and Hospitals who KNOW their cost of service and who generate the BILLS that "someone" has to pay.
OR is it that you simply want Doctors and Hospitals to ONLY be paid what the government thinks their services are "worth?" If so, WHY would any of them WANT to be in business, the "business" of helping anyone suffering from a "health problem?"
I'm sure you are familiar with the term "pro bono." In the medical world it is called "charity care" where the services are provide at no cost to the patient. In the "not for profit" world of Hospitals, they MUST maintain certain levels of "free care." In order to provide pro bono legal work or free health care, and still be able to pay salaries and the like, WHO winds up paying for it? NO lawyer is going to stay in business very long if he does not CHARGE someone, somewhere, to stay in business. The same is true for Doctors and Hospitals.
What do you propose happen to injured persons? Well, let's see. The government already MANDATES that no one can be denied medical care, regardless of ability to pay for it, for all emergencies. That's one of the reasons Emergency Rooms have become "Doctor's Offices" and "Urgent Care Centers."
You also fail to realize, medical malpractice insurance in a single-payor health system would be DRAMITICALLY cheaper because you've now removed the cost of future medical care out of the personal injury award calculations.You think so? Why? On the basis of "you can't sue the government?"
Just wait for the first case that is denied, or service NOT extended, because it "costs too much" and there is "too little reimbursement" from the government, and you will have set up a similar scenario to a lot of HMO's.
Remember that pesky little thing called the "Constitution." Something about "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?"
Finally, I AM NOT A MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ATTORNEY so their greediness or lack thereof has nothing to do with my opinionsYa, we'll just give the "John Edwards'" of the lawyering world a "free pass."
What would YOU have to charge just to cover the cost of malpractice insurance before you make one dime to pay staff or yourself?
I no longer really practice law. I'm retired. I wouldn't know what legal malpractice insurance costs
Ahhhh….the bliss of ignorance of the topic. "Not my problem, mon, I don't practice and what other attorneys do is their business, they can "go for all the gusto" and get whatever they can get….and it's A LOT!
But therein lies the crux of the issue. You aren't just shifting the cost and risk of your clients medical services from the client to the insurance company...rather, you are shifting the cost and risk of paying for ALL the medical costs of everyone, insured or not, from society to the insurance company AND THEN PROFITING ON IT. It is a fallacy to claim you are merely covering MY costs when you are tacking on the cost of the uninsured unto my premiums.
Oh come on, Mr. W., you don't really BELIEVE this do you?
WHY, in your opinion is "medical care" a "RIGHT?"
WHO says that any Doctor or Hospital "MUST" exist to take care of what "ails" you?
WHO says that the government is "responsible" for seeing to it that YOU (any individual) gets healthcare and HOW do they "set up the infrastructure" and "staff it" so that anyone can PROVIDE healthcare services?
Personal responsibility, Mr. W., it what is the "crux of the issue."
The COST associated with healthcare treatment is REAL, and it is HIGH, unless you just want to put a bandaid on that knife wound?
CAT scans, Radiation treatment, Surgery, etc., etc., ARE expensive to obtain, to regulate, to USE to try to help someone.
Of course we "could" just let the sick die. THAT would save a lot of healthcare dollars and we might not even need a "healthcare system." Just increase the number of morticians and we'd be "good to go."
What Insurance Companies DO is take a premium amount, high or low, and GIVE you MILLIONS of dollars of coverage, usually from "DAY ONE."
Now, if you prefer, you could offer the Doctor or the Hospital a chicken or two, maybe whole cow if the procedure is more "involved." Maybe they will take that, maybe they won't. Or maybe you could just "sign over" your house to cover the cost of their services.
Now, if you "think" that the government can "control healthcare" by limiting what THEY are willing to pay the providers to take care of you, then WHY doesn't the government provide Long Term Care Insurance for people?
Why do you think that the "allowable amount" for Medicare comes with a $1000 plus deductible every 60 days during the year and why does Medicare have both a deductible and 20% of the ENTIRE bill that is the responsibility of the Medicare recipient? Why do those deductibles GO UP every year? Why does the Part B premium that each Medicare Recipient MUST pay (deducted from their meager Social Security check) keep going up EVERY YEAR?
Why do you think that the "allowable amount" that Medicare actually PAYS the providers (as part of the Prospective Payment System and the attendant DRG's (Diagnosis Related Group) is 1 )too low to cover the provider's costs of providing the service and 2) mandated that they CANNOT bill the patient for any costs OVER that "allowable" amount?
Ahhhh…but "we'll all pay more taxes to cover the costs." Right. WHO will pay more taxes? The 1% of the population who "has too much money?" The Middle Class who is already taxed too much? The people who pay NO taxes (about 40% of the people)?
What do you think the "rich folks" are likely to do with their investments if they KNOW that they will be paying higher taxes next year? Do you think they just might take their money out of the Stock Market and park it somewhere else, say Tax Free Municipal Bonds?
Try answering this...if you were really say, my agent, why wouldn't you be fighting for me to pay a premium which really reflected the TRUE cost and risk of the TRUE cost of MY PERSONAL MEDICAL SERVICES instead of promoting and selling policies which entail premiums that, in part, cover the cost of uninsured and underinsured????
Hint: A corporations single purpose is to maximize it's shareholders value and return on investment.
Answer: Health insurance and the "agency" sale of such is immoral. Via the medical cartel, it passes along the cost of medical care for the uninsured and indigent to it's "clients" that it supposedly represents and even charges a percentage on it (profiteering on indigent medical care). If the Heath Insurance industry failed to be complicit in this arrangement, the hospitals would surely HAVE TO refuse to treat EVERYONE. The ensuing outrage would cause government to have to step in and pay for it. Any governement involvement is perceived as BAD for business and shareholders because Government would then likely, eventually and finally KILL the golden goose...the health insurance racket.
In conclusion, health insurance has really become private socialized medicine. My health insurance premiums contain a tax which covers the cost of medical care for the uninsured. This is, in essence, taxation and worse yet, it's taxation without representation. It's immoral and UN-American. Sure a single payor system will have problems but, at least, I'll be voting for the people in charge AND nobody will be left in the cold if and when they actually NEED medical services.
Mr. Wondering [/quote]
Oh ya, the insurance companies are "immoral."
In conclusion, health insurance has really become private socialized medicine. My health insurance premiums contain a tax which covers the cost of medical care for the uninsured. This is, in essence, taxation and worse yet, it's taxation without representation. It's immoral and UN-American. Sure a single payor system will have problems but, at least, I'll be voting for the people in charge AND nobody will be left in the cold if and when they actually NEED medical services. Have you looked at the British system? Ever wonder WHY a "private healthcare system" has grown up there, for those who can afford it? Ever wonder why people from Canada come to the USA for healthcare when they don't want to wait 6 to 12 months to get served in the Canadian system?
No, it's not "taxation without representation." NO ONE "forces" you have health insurance. It, unlike auto insurance, is NOT mandated. You can choose to have it or not have it.
Do you REALLY believe that the government can run a healthcare system? They have been doing that already in the VA system. My wife used to work in VA. Do you have any idea of what the "Nurse to Patient ratios" are in that system versus in a Hospital?
Do you think the VA system is a "well run" system?
Mr. W., you really do need to rethink this "issue."