I said the last couple weeks he's had a couple times of contact which we both know is wrong. As of yesterday, he initiated absolutely NC whatsoever and together we are taking all steps necessary to prevent that. And I am NOT trusting this completely, and I am keeping watch all the time.

H is still in deep fog, but he's understanding the addiction and seeing through the illusions that both of them built around the relationship. We both have a long way to go and are far from recovery. We're still working hard at the issues that got us this far in the first place and that's going to take some time.

I would really love for someone with some "veteran" skills to come onto your thread and just make sure that your not a door matt either, I think there can be a fine line, but I am so new at this myself truthfully speaking.
calling out to all veterans

"I have a feeling he'll be posting soon, but he's a little afraid of being drawn and quartered."

Oh, tell him not to worry, but yes, he will definately be drawn and quartered.

drgnfly,

Just yesterday, he instituted NC again, for what, the fifth time?

Swap cell phones with him until he gets that number changed!

See if he's willing to do that, and you will learn much, my friend.

RHW

Have any of you heard the song "Cheater Cheater"? It is hilarious!! Our friends that H works with called the radio station and requested this song for him.

drgnfly,

Glad you seem to be feeling better.

Does hubby have a new cell phone number yet? If not, has he switched cell phones with you?

You can't let this one go under the wire.

RHW

Yes, this is the third time that he's initiated NC. Believe me, I know what has happened the past two times. I even have panic attacks and am on medication over this. The attacks had gone down quite a bit, but they seem to be popping up again.

This weekend was the best weekend we've had in years. We focused on US and making deposits and it was fantastic!! We have both been so happy all weekend and had fun! It helped that the in-laws kept DD all weekend, so we could have from Friday early evening all the way through tonight for just us. Wow...I miss that.

btw....the phone is taken care of. We just wonder how to handle the other stuff: we live in a small city/town. For example - our only mall has about fifteen stores. Plus we have Wal-Mart and Big K. You can drive from one end of town to the other in 8 mins. Therefore, we see her everywhere. We see her while out driving at least once per day. This weekend we limited our time at the mall so we wouldn't run into her. How do we manage this?? She can get his new number from other contacts of his. She knows his work number and even though some of the people there are helping with that, they can't be on watch all the time. He has no inclination whatsoever to talk to her and if she calls work, he will just hang up. Her H has said she will not give up easily. We ended up heading down to Green Bay, WI for the whole day Saturday which was a ton of fun, but we can't just skip town all the time.

Thank you to everyone who has posted here. Drgnfly and I are both grateful for the assistance you've offered, and for the tools that this site provides for us to get through these times.

It has taken me 31 years to realize that we can't fix all of our problems alone - I typically work to resolve my issues alone or with only my wife for support... a system that I now see is flawed and unstable. Especially in this situation. Drgnfly and I are not equipped to deal with my A alone. This site, and your posts, have helped us immensely already, and we're only starting to open the door to our problems and what I've done.

So again, thank you.


RHW - Twice before I've initiated NC with the OW. Or so my wife and I discussed anyway. Looking back I realize that I never intended to honor the NC policy we agreed to. I was still undecided if I even wanted our M to work again - I believe lost in the fog is the terminoligy used on this site.

However, when I broke the second NC agreement, I did it in the form of LC (limited contact) - I know that after reading the topics on this site that this is an impossible solution, but LC was my attempt at fixing things myself... unfortunately fixing something alone and without any scientific or historical merit is ... well, wasted effort usually. The LC was in the form of text/emails only. No face time, and complete break-away from the OW's "issues". While not the correct step to take to end an A and begin working on a M, this LC did allow me to begin to dispel the illusion of what the A meant to me. And more importantly (I know now) it took me away from the rather large LB deposits she was making. Essentially it allowed me to step back and see what was really going on in our (drgnfly and I) lives.

As of Friday a.m I chose to initiate NC with the OW. I feel it is important to clarify that this was MY choice, not something I did to appease my wife. I chose to join the fight with drgnfly to save and re-create our marriage. Regardless of how that fight goes (very well so far I might add) the A is over and NC is in effect.

Oh - and while I may be drawn and quartered, and/or beaten with 2x4's... I'm not a fragile man and would always rather hear a harsh truth than a softly whispered half-truth. Please, by all means, give me your raw opinions.

Skald911

skald, I am sorry to read that it wasn't your "choice" to stop contact because you knew how very hurtful and harmful it was to your wife. But, I suppose purely selfish reasons are better than none and hopefully you will maintain your NC for the sake of your wife's mental health.

Just so you know, adultery is as traumatic as being raped or the death of a child, after all. You might find Dr Harley's video about this to be helpful: here

Glad you made it here.

drgnfly, has a no contact letter been sent? Dr Harley recommends that a no contact letter be sent:

Check out this very important article:

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

It sounds so simple in writing, but unfortunately for us moving is not an option.

Sometimes I forget how easily words read in a forum are taken out of context, and that we need to be careful how we say things, or over explain our meaning in order to make things clear.

What I meant by that statement is that the first two NC agreements were essentially lies from the start - I chose to not honor them before I even agreed to them. Unfortunately at that time the hurt that I caused my W and DD were not considerations. Therefore the first two NC agreements were lies uttered to appease my wife (as I saw it at the time.) What I should have said is "not something I did to appease my wife this time ."

Now however I am aware of the damage I've caused. My wife's pain is very much on my mind. And my NC choice is made with that damage/pain in mind, and out of a desire to restore our relationship.

Skald

Actually it does not sound simple AT ALL! It sounds HARD and complicated! But not as hard as living in an environment where you both are perpetually triggered by the OW. That would be like dying a death of a thousand cuts.

Skald, thanks for your clarification. That makes perfect sense.

Well very nice words that will appease all here on the forum, but my Q to you is very simple. How will you achieve this???

What extraordinary precautions have you put in place to achieve no contact? Have you condisered a move from where you are to another state or something of that nature? How much does your M mean to you??

Words are pretty, but actions are much louder!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Good point Jerry. The first step I've put in place for NC probably means nothing to the readers/posters on this forum, with good reason. Or will be considered another outright lie, again with good reason. That step is desire. I desire NC with the OW. A simple statement, but consider it my first time at the podium, stating my name and my addiction, and my desire/need to do away with that addiction.

I'd gladly move to another state. In the future that may well be part of our solution, but unfortunately right now it truly is not an option... for my W. For us to move to another state would require immense sacrifices on her part - I'd pack up tomorrow if she was able/willing to.

We are very open to and hoping for suggestions on how to go about complete NC given our situation. It's simple to have no intentional contact, but bumping into the OW at a store/restaraunt is a concern that we need to deal with for now.

However Jerry, on one part of your reply you were incorrect... both in my intention and I think the result. -->

I highly doubt anybody on these forums will be convinced of how genuine my words are. And, no offense intended to anybody, appeasing people on this forum isn't the slightest concern of mine at this time. All I can offer is the truth - whether it's believed or not is nearly irrelevant, other than from an offered aid standpoint.

skald,

I applaud you for posting. I applaud your honesty in admitting that your first two attempts at NC were "lies." It doesn't take a genius to see that she is wise to remain skeptical until you have proven your trustworthiness over and over and over until she knows it's real.

Look, I've become very fond of drgnfly, and have watched her efforts to bring you back to the marriage since her first post. She LOVES you, man.

You hurt her in a way that I don't think you will ever fully appreciate. DO NOT play games with her heart anymore. She only has so much love in her heart...what remains CAN be destroyed, but it's up to you to build on it, not squander any more of it.

That said, I'd like to suggest that you TELL your friends who have your new phone # NOT to give it to anyone else. If this nut job who seemed like a soul mate gets hold of it, you're in grave danger. You wouldn't be the first to get roped back in, regardless of what you think now. That is why NO CONTACT means exactly that. You have been addicted to the drug of your A with this particular woman--you can never speak to her again. She is like heroin to you. Do you get that?

While it would be best to blow town, I understand that it isn't always possible financially. Living expenses while supporting a mortgage in this market while you pray for a buyer, etc. And drgnfly doesn't want to move. SO, you will have to double up on your extra-ordinary precautions as long as you are there. Your A partner will not give up easily, as you've seen. You must cut off ANY attempt at contact as soon as it appears. Walk away, NO WORDS to her. None.

Continue to delve into the information here, and in Harley's books, about emotional needs. You both need to fill those "love banks." Their depletion is what got you into this mess to begin with.

Keep posting too. We will nail you on any remaining foggy thinking you may do, and if you're serious about rebuilding with drgnfly, you will take heed, not offense.

Recovery will not be fast, or easy, although you will have wonderful moments. Be prepared for the down times, they will come, but do not yield to the temptation to throw in the towel. Strengthen your commitment to NC and to meeting each other's needs.

We're all pulling for you. Take care of drgnfly.

Right Here Waiting

I just want to clarify to everyone and my H knows this - I would love to move. Not just to get away from all the drama, but to get away from this area in general. We have talked about moving to AZ someday. It just isn't possible at the moment.

We both admit that I'm the main "bread-winner" in our M. I run my parent's company, I've been working here since I was 13, and I can't just walk away from that. I also help my brother run his company. Neither H or I have a college degree. We've both had to work since we were very young and we never had time to finish college. We take a class here and there, but it is taking a while. So when we do decide to move, what kind of jobs will we be able to get and I'm sure it won't meet what we're getting now. We are saving up for the future and have high hopes of escaping from here, but right now it isn't an option.

The only option I can think of and is a possibility is moving to the next town over so at least we aren't always in the same town as OW. It would limit the chance of contact. We still have to work here, but we could live elsewhere. If only the market would get moving again so we could sell our house.