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he will repeat the same mistakes in every R he is in and all R's go down the same path when mystery is taken over by reality of day to day living.

I am glad that he has at least aknowledged this. The problem is that even an alchoholic knows that drinking is bad for them, they know that it is ruining their life, but they continue to drink for the "feeling" it gives them. The high that he searches for with his inapproriate relationships is similar to a drunk.

Quote
suggested that one other person knew where he was and that it may benefit them to create problems with me at home.
Is he threatening you here? that someone else may create problems with you at home? How childish.
Next time he says something like this, I wonder if you could look at him and say "Do you think I am in danger??? Seriously!! How my gosh!!! Do I need to be concerned about myself, and the kids??? Seriously, should I take the kids and go to my parents house??? What sort of person is this????. and then, later in the evening, you could say "Did you just hear something???? It sounds like someone is outside! Do you think I should call the police??!!

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I spoke of my concerns about his intentions of being home and said that I no longer want him sharing my bed if he is not interested in R. I said that I have been deeply hurt by his A and his repeat patterns and inability to see how it hurts me.

AWESOME! hurray
Well done!
I know this was hard for you - but you did great!

Quote
I said I have no doubt out marriage can be amazing, but I don't know if I want that anymore with someone who doesn't care for me or my day. I loved him once, but it's getting harder.

Again, very well done!

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I put a family key chain photo in it with a message to DH saying how much I loved him and the beautiful family we had made together and looked forward to being a family forever.

this makes me laugh. I would not encourage you to do anything like this, that you would have to lie about later.
But you have been through so much crap with this man - It was good to have a bit of a laugh about this.

Quote
Loves his kids more than anything and wants the world for them. I said that would be loving their mother, he said he does.

Well done
I really dont understand how he says he hates you one minute - then he dislikes you - then when you tell him he should love his kids mom, he says he does. All within just a few minutes.

You should not share a bed with him at this point. You have stated that you do not wnat to share a bed with him as long as he is not interested in a R with you. You need to stand by this. Show him that you are serious. He does not stand by any of the comments that he has made - but you should show him how to be a grown up, and stand by what you say. Until he is ready to commit to you, his W, you do not need to share a bed with him.





Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

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Thank you for your encouragement!

Had the MC. Not good. He is h&ll bent on punishing me and making me wrong and I'm no angel either, yet, he insists on coming back each week???

He said that he is sad that this is making me unhappy and he really does love me and doesn't want this. He doesn't want me to be unhappy. We've been together for 9 years and he really does love me and doesn't want anyone to ever hurt me.

He is not happy at home and hates being around me etc.

He wants to stick at this new job and be responsible and stay with something he has committed to, for once in his life.

After the session we talked and he said that he feels trapped and that he's unhappy and angry with me all the time. He has a new job but I am complaining that we wont be able to afford 2 households and him moving out will be bad financially.

I said that he's not trapped. He can leave at anytime. I would ask him to consider that he doesn't leave tonight and that we can prepare the kids properly and not hurt them. He told me one second I beg him to stay and now I'm kicking him out. :RollieEyes:

I said my wish is to work on the marriage. If he wants to go, he should go, I am not begging him to stay. I said that we should get a realtor and have them arrange for it to be rented out before we both commit to other leases, but I would probably take the kids to mum and dad's in the short term. I don't want to rush into him leaving and then loose the house.

He said he didn't want to rush anything and that we should talk about it first!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said he told me about his relationship offer because that's not why he's unhappy, not for another woman, just because he's unhappy with me. He almost questionned if I had someone else and told me he knows how much of a catch I am and thinks it would be really easy for me, if I'm not already. I didn't even grace it with a response.

He is angry that everyone will think he's doing the wrong thing by me and the kids if he leaves and give me bad advice. I walked away when he told me my family were sh1t and got in the car and just cried.

He rang me 3 minutes later and told me about a mutual friend who was cheating on his gf. He got home last week and she had his things on the lawn. He is with the OW apparently, but is considering going back to his daughter's mum. She is 3 years old. He doesn't know if it will work but its a consideration that he thinks would be the best option.

Why is he telling me these stories?

He doesn't want me to go to a realtor, yet.

Asked me if I was going to the wedding on Sat. I said yes. We will only have one car and he is worried I think because I will need to drop him off at the gig and OW will be there working with him. I said that she can drop him home and he said he would find someone else. Why? She's just a friend?

WOF, you'll be pleased to know that we sell the car tomorrow for a profit and HE says we should wait for a little while if I am worried and not buy another expensive car. Good, finally some common sense, but we'll see how long it lasts.

He's home late tonight after rehearsal.

I am going to go home, play with the kids, dye my hair, paint my toe nails and watch some tv and relax and not worry about all of this stuff. Tonight's about me.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
I really dont understand how he says he hates you one minute - then he dislikes you - then when you tell him he should love his kids mom, he says he does. All within just a few minutes.

I know, the MC said the same thing to him today. We are all confused.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
You should not share a bed with him at this point. You have stated that you do not wnat to share a bed with him as long as he is not interested in a R with you. You need to stand by this. Show him that you are serious. He does not stand by any of the comments that he has made - but you should show him how to be a grown up, and stand by what you say. Until he is ready to commit to you, his W, you do not need to share a bed with him.

Absolutely. I plan on keeping this up. I will give him the doona and pillow tonight however so that he can be more comfortable in the lounge room. smile


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Aug 2005
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Hello Rocky

I have just looked back through your thread and the impression I get is that nothing follows through .You are trying to formulate plans but he is so unpredictable that you are thrown off course every time. It is a crazy making roller coaster. He alternates from Mr Nasty Guy when things are not going his way to Mr Nice Guy when he wants you to co-operate.

This is a characteristic of BPD and is so prevalent it even has a name. The nice guy mode is called hoovering or to be more explicit -----sucking you back into the vortex of his life as it becomes more and more unmanageable for him. As he sees you showing signs of abandoning him he turns on nice guy to pull you back in and keep you under control.

He really needs you to support him by having firm boundaries, by you being the one who follows through on what you say you are going to do. For instance when you say that you are not going to sleep in the same bed what does that mean
a] for one night?
b} for one week ?
c} until he decides to sweet talk you back
d]until you are satisfied that he is telling the truth about OW and stops treating you disrespectfully?

You are really back to the rock and the marshmallow

All the best
I know you are a truly dependable,intelligent and worth while person. He is so lucky to have you as the mother of his children and deep down he knows it too

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Has the MC (or anyone else for that matter) ever suggested anti depressents for him? He needs to get his mood swings better under control, and this would seem like an obvious way to do it. He is all over the chart with his moods, and I fear that he is going to crash and burn at his new job because of it. He wants to blame his foul mood on you, but we both know that it really has nothing to do with you. Consequently, his moodiness is destined to flow into other areas of his life.



Married 18 years
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Originally Posted by myopia
He alternates from Mr Nasty Guy when things are not going his way to Mr Nice Guy when he wants you to co-operate.

This is a characteristic of BPD and is so prevalent it even has a name. The nice guy mode is called hoovering or to be more explicit -----sucking you back into the vortex of his life as it becomes more and more unmanageable for him. As he sees you showing signs of abandoning him he turns on nice guy to pull you back in and keep you under control.

Hi Myopia, I've missed you!

This is exactly right for my WH. In fact, he said yesterday that he needs to be on his own to really miss me so that he has to beg me to take him back when he's ready. He wants the drama.

Originally Posted by myopia
He really needs you to support him by having firm boundaries, by you being the one who follows through on what you say you are going to do. For instance when you say that you are not going to sleep in the same bed what does that mean
a] for one night?
b} for one week ?
c} until he decides to sweet talk you back
d]until you are satisfied that he is telling the truth about OW and stops treating you disrespectfully?

Last night I left the doona and pillow in the lounge room. He called me twice after tea on his way to rehearsal with OW to tell me about his job applications and car sale. All conversation was initiated by him. I was interested and engaged and was the one to end the conversation each time.

He got home at 1:30am. A fuel receipt in his car was for 11:07pm so he finished rehearsal at 11pm. I'm guessing he went for coffee with OW for some icing. He came into the bedroom and chatted to me about the car pick up today and I responded as much as required and he said goodnight and left the bedroom. I had removed the pillow from his side of the bed just in case he had any ideas to "sweet talk" me back. I can be soft so it should have answered his question just in case.

He will be in the lounge room until I am satisfied that he is telling the truth about OW and stops treating me disrespectfully as you suggested. I would hasten to add that I really don't want to take him back unless he wants to reconcile. It's too hard on me.

Originally Posted by myopia
You are really back to the rock and the marshmallow

All the best
I know you are a truly dependable,intelligent and worth while person. He is so lucky to have you as the mother of his children and deep down he knows it too

Please give me some tips on staying the rock. I am really trying but my little voice always wants me to fight and cause issues and crumble and cry.

I didn't melt last night, but this morning DD woke him up at 6am. He said she was in early and was whinging that he had to get up for work. I stupidly said that I didn't keep him up late and he told me to shut up. I said that wasn't appropriate language in front of DD. That was it, I took the kids to school.

I didn't mention the fuel receipt or the time home or the bank account balance of $1587 that was in his wallet. I knew he was stashing money. He always says that he gives me all his money.

ARRRGH

What other boundaries should I enforce?

I still want to save my marriage more than anything.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
Has the MC (or anyone else for that matter) ever suggested anti depressents for him? He needs to get his mood swings better under control, and this would seem like an obvious way to do it. He is all over the chart with his moods, and I fear that he is going to crash and burn at his new job because of it. He wants to blame his foul mood on you, but we both know that it really has nothing to do with you. Consequently, his moodiness is destined to flow into other areas of his life.

Hi WOF

He won't do meds. He was on Effexor about 7 years ago and hated it. Said he felt numb and out of control and the withdrawal when he went off them was horrible.

I hope he finds a balance. He still complains that he is constantly unhappy but does nothing to fix it from within, except for hanging out with OW. Her new job will take up a lot of her time and I think he is afraid to lose her and is really forcing himself on her again. I hope this works in my favour.

How did we get back here again? I don't want her back in his life like this again. Must have been a false recovery or she has dumped her boyfriend and is all over him for support again.

If he blames his unhappiness etc on me then it makes sense that being without me should make him really happy.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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I should also mention that I am fighting a massive desire to put the house on the market or at least up for rent and pack his bags and ask him to leave.

I think this would be a bad thing to do.

Should I let the current sleeping boundary sink in and see if results come of it before I rock the boat again?

I know he wants to be home with the kids and it helps me so much too and is a great time for plan A.

I am going out after work tomorrow night with friends and again on Sunday afternoon and WH is looking after the kids. I thought it might do him some good to support my new lifestyle and wonder where I am and what I'm doing.

Is this ok?

I guess I should have no expectations, but it sounds right...


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Nov 2005
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How did we get back here again? I don't want her back in his life like this again. Must have been a false recovery or she has dumped her boyfriend and is all over him for support again.

Because it never ended.

Shes in the band.

Good job with the Picture in OW's clothes. I would have smiled sweetly and said: "Yes, I put that there?" "Why did you come back?"

This guy is a schmuck.

Really, him sleeping in the lounge is WAY TO GOOD For him.

WOF5 has been giving you good advice to straighten your backbone.

Please get yourself stronger. This guy has been beating on you for 9 years. Get YOUR strengh together and you can pass thru this.

Time for Plan B. Time to get the attorney involed to protect yourself. Time to put this guy out in the street where he can't hurt you anymore.

LG

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Thanks LG. I want to be stronger. I do.

I am weak because I still love him and want to get us back on track and believe we can, but it hurts.

I don't want to put too much pressure on him because he has $75,000 in his bank account from the car sale. It will take a while to get the cash, but if I can get him to trust me he will put it in the home loan where I control it.

He mentioned it to me yesterday so I am hoping he comes through with it.

I'm nervous and scared.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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About this:

Quote
He mentioned it to me yesterday so I am hoping he comes through with it.

He won't.

It's going to drink, or to fund party time with OW.

If you know where it is, MOVE IT.

Put it someplace he can't get to it.

Let him know it the first three years of child support.

He will freak out.

So what. He's about to anyway.

But you have the cash, and he doesn't.

Does this sound harsh? Yes.
Will he possibly stike you or harm you in some way? Get a recorder from an electronic store so that you have proof of what happened. Then have him arrested.

Sorry. He's a smuck. ANd he will continue to manipulate you to get what ever he wants.

Someplace to sleep
The Appearance of a "happy" Family.
Possible SF as needed.
MC so that it looks like he "tried"

He's gone with this much cash.

Call the realtor yourself.
Start looking for apartments.
Hire a good attorney.

LG


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I should also mention that I am fighting a massive desire to put the house on the market or at least up for rent and pack his bags and ask him to leave.

Your idea is about 50% good. At some point, you may need to put the house on the market. But I would not suggest you do it right now. if you deicde to sell the house and move, you need to discuss it with him first. If he were stil living at the backpackers, and not helping w/ the kids, then packing his bags, moving him out,a nd selling the house would be fine. But right now he is making a very feeble effort to contribute to the family, so if you decide to sell, let him know first. Give him 30 days to pack and move on his own. Try not to make any big decisions right now. If you are in danger of losing the house, by all means sell. If not, don't uproot the kids any more than you have to.

You need to put a deadline on your Plan A. You have all ready done it for longer than the Harleys would suggest. the purpose of Plan A is to say "look at how well I can meet your needs". You have shown him that all ready. You have met his needs, even when he did not wnat you to, and he has seen that you can be a great W. He fights that - becuase he KNOWS you are a great W, but he wants to leave anyway. There is nothing wrong w/ you, he is just looking for something new. To continue to Plan A for much longer, would just bring you more of the same results.

and I can see that you are losing patience with him. You are talking about putting the house up for sale, and packing his bags. A step like that would surely lead to D, yet you are ready to do that anyway. You are losing your love for the WH. And that is understandble! That is why Plan B exists. You need to distance yourself from his crap. If he tells you one more time that he hates you, and this is all your fault, you may explode. In order to save yourself from certain destruction, you need to close your ears to his harsh words, move him out of the house so you no longer see how late he comes home, and give yourself some rest. That is what plan B is all about.

Unfortunately, I fear that he may become violent with a plan B. This is not a "normal" situation.

What do you think would happen if you sat him down and said:
I really dont want to do this, but I must ask you to please move. Having you here is causing me too much pain.You say mean things to me, you openly consort w/ OW when you know how hurtful that is to me, and you come home at all hours of the night and tell me it is none of my business because we are not in a R. I would never choose to be room mates with someone who hates me, and treats me this way. So I need you to find someplace esle to live.
What would happen if you said something like that to him?

You know he can afford to move out now - he is not going to be on the street.

I tell you what I think is going to happen. When you finally stand up to him, he is going to fold. When you tell him that you have had enough, and he needs to move, he will start by trying to bully you into submission. He will say "go ahead, kick me out, I knew you were a b!tch! Tell the kids that you kicked me out. this is all your falut. I knew you were mean"
and when you respond with "ok, bye" he is going to panic. When you no longer cry, or beg, or enter into a dialogue w/ him, he is going to panic. and then he is going to to make his offers to change, blah blah blah. I am not suggesting this as a technique to win him back. I can just see that he is exhuasting your love for him, and it is going to freak him out when he realizes it.

Quote
I am going out after work tomorrow night with friends and again on Sunday afternoon and WH is looking after the kids. I thought it might do him some good to support my new lifestyle and wonder where I am and what I'm doing.
Please, do not get involved w/ any other men, and do not pretend like you are. Do not play that game. We have allr eady seen taht he freaks out when he thinks you are on the phone with a nother guy - but be a bigger adult then he is, and do not play that game.
It is good to go out w/ freinds, and it is good that he is going to watch the children. he needs to realize that if he gets a D, he will need to take care of the kids on his "days". that part is good.
But please be the bigger adult here, and do not pretend to be dating. Show him that married people do not date. Married people do not stay out all night. If you say you will be home at 1am, make sure you are home by then. That way, if he ever tries to get into a fight with you, you will not have to defend your actions about this weekend. dont do anything you will have to lie about later, or make excuses for later.

Ok, here is a tough question for you.
You say that you will do anything to save your M.
Let me ask you - Why?

Is it because he is such a great partner? Before this OW came along, did he protect you physically, mentally and financially? Did you ahve a solid M before, where you mutally supported each other?

or

Do you want to save your M so you do not have to say that you "failed" at it? Because you do not want to admit people to people that your M "failed" and you are a divorced woman?






Married 18 years
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I will respond - you're amazing and spot on!

He just called my work and asked me for a radio campaign for his new job. Gave me all the details, very official, tyring to help me out and give me a new client.

I got the info and professionally handled it.

Then, he asked me why I was mean to him this morning. I said that I shouldn't have commented but DD wakes me up every day and it is up to me how much sleep I get and I wouldn't feel sorry for him. He told me he was home at 12:30am and rehearsal finished at 11:30pm. He might have been home earlier, it is possible, but unlikely.

Anyway, then he asked me if I was still happy with him sleeping in the lounge room. I said yes, that sharing a bed with a man who doesn't respect me or want to be with me really hurts and I want to protect myself from that hurt.

He said I will move out then like you want. I said what, like I want? and he said yes, you told me to move out yesterday at MC. I said are you sure you want to talk about this now, maybe tonight is better? He said I had made it clear that I wanted him to leave so he will.

He wanted me to beg him to stay, yes?

So, I said it was up to him if he left although we needed to talk to arrange it properly in relation to kids visitation and finances and he said he doesn't want to talk about it.

He said please send the info through for the advertising when you can and see ya. I said bye.

How did I go?


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by lousygolfer
Sorry. He's a smuck. ANd he will continue to manipulate you to get what ever he wants.

Someplace to sleep
The Appearance of a "happy" Family.
Possible SF as needed.
MC so that it looks like he "tried"

He's gone with this much cash.

Call the realtor yourself.
Start looking for apartments.
Hire a good attorney.

LG

Wow LG, you don't mince words, but I love your honesty.

I don't think I can do it yet, but I'm building myself up. I want to be happy and strong and amazing!


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
so if you decide to sell, let him know first. Give him 30 days to pack and move on his own. Try not to make any big decisions right now. If you are in danger of losing the house, by all means sell. If not, don't uproot the kids any more than you have to.
Thank you, I can wait for the kids till the end of time and I will do all in my power to keep them stable.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
You need to put a deadline on your Plan A. You have all ready done it for longer than the Harleys would suggest.
Can i be weak and say after Christmas?
Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
To continue to Plan A for much longer, would just bring you more of the same results.
I feel scared about this although it feels inevitable.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
and I can see that you are losing patience with him. You are talking about putting the house up for sale, and packing his bags. A step like that would surely lead to D, yet you are ready to do that anyway. You are losing your love for the WH. And that is understandble! That is why Plan B exists. You need to distance yourself from his crap. If he tells you one more time that he hates you, and this is all your fault, you may explode. In order to save yourself from certain destruction, you need to close your ears to his harsh words, move him out of the house so you no longer see how late he comes home, and give yourself some rest. That is what plan B is all about.
Yes, the peace is very attractive and I yearn for it. I really do prefer being at home with the kids on my own and knowing nothing about his seedy little adventures and not expecting him to come home.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
Unfortunately, I fear that he may become violent with a plan B. This is not a "normal" situation.
Me too. Can i do a modified Plan B?

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
What do you think would happen if you sat him down and said:
I really dont want to do this, but I must ask you to please move. Having you here is causing me too much pain.You say mean things to me, you openly consort w/ OW when you know how hurtful that is to me, and you come home at all hours of the night and tell me it is none of my business because we are not in a R. I would never choose to be room mates with someone who hates me, and treats me this way. So I need you to find someplace esle to live.
What would happen if you said something like that to him?

You know he can afford to move out now - he is not going to be on the street.
Maybe I'll let you know as I think this chat is coming tonight or very soon. My modified plan B would be that we both agree to the conditions as an open book plan B. That way I would have his buy in to hopefully end things on his end to rebuild our marriage if he chooses without getting him offside. He punishes me through not seeing the kids and being emotionally and sometimes physically violent towards me and that's not acceptable.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
I tell you what I think is going to happen. When you finally stand up to him, he is going to fold. When you tell him that you have had enough, and he needs to move, he will start by trying to bully you into submission. He will say "go ahead, kick me out, I knew you were a b!tch! Tell the kids that you kicked me out. this is all your falut. I knew you were mean"
and when you respond with "ok, bye" he is going to panic. When you no longer cry, or beg, or enter into a dialogue w/ him, he is going to panic. and then he is going to to make his offers to change, blah blah blah. I am not suggesting this as a technique to win him back. I can just see that he is exhuasting your love for him, and it is going to freak him out when he realizes it.
Well, you sound 100% correct to me. Could this be the modified plan B???

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
Please, do not get involved w/ any other men, and do not pretend like you are. Do not play that game. We have allr eady seen taht he freaks out when he thinks you are on the phone with a nother guy - but be a bigger adult then he is, and do not play that game.
It is good to go out w/ freinds, and it is good that he is going to watch the children. he needs to realize that if he gets a D, he will need to take care of the kids on his "days". that part is good.
But please be the bigger adult here, and do not pretend to be dating. Show him that married people do not date. Married people do not stay out all night. If you say you will be home at 1am, make sure you are home by then. That way, if he ever tries to get into a fight with you, you will not have to defend your actions about this weekend. dont do anything you will have to lie about later, or make excuses for later.
Your timing is impeccable. I was thinking of sending myself some flowers to home with a note saying "I'll wait". It was absolutely intended to make him think there is someone else and I am completely stupid for playing games. Boy am I glad you posted. It was only a thought but it was there right along with wanting to ring the OW again to get her onside with me and perhaps her parents again too. Eeeek! It's been a tough day, but I haven't done those things.

I love your advice about keeping my word and he knows it's just a group of friends from work and not a man for tomorrow night. I think he will draw his own conclusions anyway if it suits him, but it is important for me to stay 100% honest & committed to my M.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
Ok, here is a tough question for you.
You say that you will do anything to save your M.
Let me ask you - Why?

Is it because he is such a great partner? Before this OW came along, did he protect you physically, mentally and financially? Did you ahve a solid M before, where you mutally supported each other?

or

Do you want to save your M so you do not have to say that you "failed" at it? Because you do not want to admit people to people that your M "failed" and you are a divorced woman?

Sigh. I was brought up to get married once till death to us part. It's a huge part of me and one that is especially dear to me when children are involved.

I married a man who loved me in an amazing way who really did protect me and love me and support me. BUT, after reading only a small amount of Women Who Love Too Much, there are so many wholes in the picture of my marriage that now I seem to be re-writing it from the start.

I don't believe we had a healthy marriage. I don't believe I had healthy boundaries and my H was very needy and our "fit" was less than healthy a lot of the time.

I will do anything to save our marriage and make it rewarding for both of us with healthy boundaries and genuine love and support - if he jumps on board and committs to the same. I really do thnik we can do it, but I can't do it alone and I will not accept the marriage that we had from him or anyone else ever again. I deserve so much more.

The victims are the kids because they are so young. I would love nothing more than for them to have both parents in a happy marriage together so we can be one family and not need to share time and live in different houses etc. I choose our family.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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first of all, somehow I missed LG's post. These words are golden for you:
Quote
Get YOUR strengh together and you can pass thru this.

That, is what I am trying to help you with. Getting YOUR strength together.

What is the deal with the car money sitting in his bank account? You have GOT to start making better financial choices.
suggestions:
1. If you can get half of the money out of the account, do it now.
2. if you let him put it in his own account without your name on it, tell him to write you a check for half.
3. Tell him to buy you a new car with your half of the money, and he can have the other half to do whatever.

I think that if you insist on doing this "plan A" through Christmas, you will drag your children through another month of misery with this man. He will be bouncing back and forth with OW, you will find evidence of him buying some expensive gift for her, you will not know whan he will be home, and when he will be out partying. You do not have a peaceful life now. How would you have peace during Christmas, if he is home?

You are doing an amazing job of taking back control of your life. Bit by bit, each day you are gaining your strength. Good for you! Continue to stretch yourself out, and work towards the peace filled life you desire.

Have you given thought to what it will take for him to become an honest, stable, loving H? I know that step one is to stop all contact with OW, but then what? What would he need to do to insure that there will not be an OW#3? Keeping in mind that this OW#2 is not a Greek Goddess sent from heaven just for him - she is his second fling. So how will he protect his M, and his W from fling #3.

Because the thing is - you will not be able to do this for him. you will not be able to lock him up tight and keep him faithful. You are an amazing W, who does an awesome job of caring for her family. Yet he still strays. He would need to come up with a major life style change to protect you in the future.

He uses his relationships with other women as a way to self medicate. If he is feeling bored, or depressed, he looks for a new R to perk him up.When he finds that new R he decides that this is the answer to all his woes. All he needs to do is move on to this new R and life will be glorious, all day, every day.

Just like a drug addict. My brother has spent years in and out of jail becuase of his addiction to meth. when he feels bored, or disgusted with his life he turns to the meth to make him "feel better". After a couple hits of meth, end of problem. If he were ever going to become a solid, stable, H and father, he would have to quit the meth, change all of his friends who were part of the meth lifestyle, make his life a completely open book, not have any hidden money or secrets, and comitt to staying away from meth every single day of his life. This is possilbe - but highly unlikely. Because my brother does not see anything wrong with his life, or the meth. If we would all just quit "judging" him, and accept him for who he is, then everything would be fine.

Your WH has just substitued meth for innapporopraite relations with women. What would it take for him to quit medicating himself this way? How would he take extraoridanry care for the future of this M, and his W's emotional well being?

Give it some thought




Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
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I am empowered today. smile

I woke up feeling regret for setting some boundaries with WH last night and fought the urge to apologise to make it all go away again, for a while.

But I didn’t. I just lay awake and realized that I had set some boundaries and if he was upset that was ok. They are my boundaries and I need to set them to protect me.

We spent about 15 minutes chatting about things he imitated about his job etc when I got home from my meeting. All light and happy. Asked my opinion on buying a BMW next year and we talked about the economy etc. I asked him if he wanted to finish the conversation that he started in the afternoon about moving out.

He said he used to think I was amazing for applying for jobs and being successful and I helped him with his cv and now he is doing all those things he’s never done before and actually taking responsibility for himself.

He said he wants to be honest with me. Told me that he had been offered to go interstate to QLD with OW’s band next week for 2 days & 1 night. They would not pay him for the gig, but would pay for his flight and accommodation. He could help out, hang out and sing. He is just friends with her and it would be really fun etc.

Gulp.

I said that he could choose to go on the trip, but I would take that as him not wanting to work on our relationship because we don’t have any trust between us and he would have to know that it would hurt me deeply. If relationship with OW is platonic only, then why I am still on the outside? Why does he choose to cover up and lie about seeing her? He is not making a stand to make me think anything different.

I told him that he gets to choose his actions but not the consequences of his actions. I could not guarantee that this would be ok with me. I don’t know what I will think if he goes, but he can’t control that. He can only control his actions.

It's not ok to hate me and treat me this way in the house, I would expect a lot more from a house mate and I expect more from you.

Among other things we talked about staying in house vs going etc. He wants to hang on to all of the money in his account because he thinks that will make me nicer to him and therefore unable to be nasty and vindictive. He believes I will be a real b1tch if things don’t go my way. (to reconcile).

He said thank you for your thoughts. I chuckled and he was offended. Maybe he was being genuine.

Then, off to separate beds. I was really struggling with my boundaries.

I drove him into work this morning as he is actually very sick with the flu and it was very cold here today. He works tomorrow night and needs his voice to be ok. Oh, and I love him and really wanted to look after him 

We chatted about stuff until we were 5 minutes out and he brought up the trip and my comment about it meaning he was not working on the marriage. He was fixated on that and looked at me like a had a huge green slug on my head. How dare I be upset that he wants to go away with the OW to a beach location!

I stood my ground and repeated that I had been deeply hurt by his relationship with the OW and even if it was just friendship, I had put been on the outside intentionally. If he goes away with her it will hurt me immensely. I want to work on our marriage, not be in the stands watching him go to QLD with the OW knowing how much it hurts me.

I said that if he chose to do that, the consequence is that I would ask him to leave. So I did. I said I think you should leave. I am hurt that you continue to hate me and continue to blame me for everything that is going wrong and my punishment for loving you should not be to wait at home while you are out with her or in QLD with her and lying about where you have been. I think you should leave and you need to go before I lose all love for you. I cannot keep on protecting my love whilst you are around and hurting me. I need you to go so that if there is ever a chance to reconcile, I will still have some love left for you.

He said that he had no intention of going to QLD because he doesn’t want to jeopardize his new job which is about being responsible for his children. He just wanted to be honest with me. I said, so you had no intention of going and were just toying with me to see what I would say? He said no, he just wanted to be honest.

So, he told me that I was nasty and a complete b1tch when I wanted to be and I would become a mega b1tch very soon. He said that I would possibly regret my decision and that I could not choose the consequences of my actions. I said I was just trying to protect my feelings and my heart.

THEN, he sent me a text message.

“I need 2 things from you today. Please make some enquiries into just how bad things are in the car trade and please go and pick up that ring and shop a deal. I will pay for it as I said I would from the profit. Thanks and no this doesn’t mean I’m all of a sudden ok. I’m p1ssed at you and your stories”

Confused? Me too.

------edited to add---------

By stories he is referring to DJ's. I said that my story about him going to QLD with OW could be that he is paying for an expensive hotel room for them both so he could fxxk her brains out. Boy, I'm not proud of that one and humiliated to remember it just now and record it.


Last edited by 2much2lose; 11/20/08 07:48 PM.

BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 567
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Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
Because the thing is - you will not be able to do this for him. you will not be able to lock him up tight and keep him faithful. You are an amazing W, who does an awesome job of caring for her family. Yet he still strays. He would need to come up with a major life style change to protect you in the future.

He uses his relationships with other women as a way to self medicate. If he is feeling bored, or depressed, he looks for a new R to perk him up.When he finds that new R he decides that this is the answer to all his woes. All he needs to do is move on to this new R and life will be glorious, all day, every day.

Just like a drug addict. My brother has spent years in and out of jail becuase of his addiction to meth. when he feels bored, or disgusted with his life he turns to the meth to make him "feel better". After a couple hits of meth, end of problem. If he were ever going to become a solid, stable, H and father, he would have to quit the meth, change all of his friends who were part of the meth lifestyle, make his life a completely open book, not have any hidden money or secrets, and comitt to staying away from meth every single day of his life. This is possilbe - but highly unlikely. Because my brother does not see anything wrong with his life, or the meth. If we would all just quit "judging" him, and accept him for who he is, then everything would be fine.

Your WH has just substitued meth for innapporopraite relations with women. What would it take for him to quit medicating himself this way? How would he take extraoridanry care for the future of this M, and his W's emotional well being?

Give it some thought
You are absolutely right, again. I keep hoping that he will get to the stage where he will walk through fire to be with me again and be ready to hear my boundaries in full and act on them. He is still too much in the fog to even consider them at the moment.

Every now and then I have a breakthrough and I think there are cracks forming, but they are only cracks. I need the whole house to fall down around his ankles.

He is actually becoming a more responsible adult and if I can be so blunt, growing up. I know we are only a week into his new job and a lot can still go wrong, but he holds himself differently now, sets his own alarm clock, makes choices about his life. Before he was scared to do any of that and always raced into decisions without considering the consequences.

I hope that he can have a full transformation and that we can transform our marriage. I think he holds back entirely because he doesn't want to get my hopes up and is only a tiny way back.


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
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Excellent job today. You have put on your red cape of courage. And look what happened - he didn't leave, he didn't move in with OW, he stayed w/ you. He was still being a big baby - and calling you names. But he didn't leave. this should give you courage to see that you do not need to accept his little crumbs any longer. Require more from him.

Quote
He is actually becoming a more responsible adult and if I can be so blunt, growing up.

This is very encouraging. It would be nice to see him become a responsible adult.

Quote
I think he holds back entirely because he doesn't want to get my hopes up and is only a tiny way back.

This, is a picture of you making excuses for him. No more.

He holds back because he wants to come and go whenever he wants to still. he wants to leave every option open. But that is not mature love. That is not marriage. You are not doing him any favors when you make excuses for him.

We women are really good at making excuses for our WH's! But when you stop making excuses for him, you hold him up to a higher standard of living, and that is ultimately going to be much better for both of you.

What are you going to do about the ring? I don't have a good feeling about that.
if he wants to get you a gift, he should go to the store and get the gift. Don;t let him off the hook so easily. he hopes that if you go to the store and buy yourself a gift, you will stop enforcing your boundaries. Don't let him off the hook. Don;t cave in now.

Plus, I do not like his insult at the end of the message.
Can;t he send you messages without an insult at the bottom??

you are really doing a good job.
Hang in there


Married 18 years
D Day June 25, 2003
Divorced December 17, 2003

Newly married to a wonderful man!
Joined: Sep 2008
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Thank you for your words of encouragement. It felt like I had done the right thing today and I feel so happy that you are behind me and supporting me.

I will not make excuses for him anymore. I only control me, not him or how he is feeling and to guess how he is feeling is a DJ and just makes me sad and angry.

Originally Posted by womanoffaith5
What are you going to do about the ring? I don't have a good feeling about that.
if he wants to get you a gift, he should go to the store and get the gift. Don;t let him off the hook so easily. he hopes that if you go to the store and buy yourself a gift, you will stop enforcing your boundaries. Don't let him off the hook. Don;t cave in now.

Plus, I do not like his insult at the end of the message.
Can;t he send you messages without an insult at the bottom??

you are really doing a good job.
Hang in there

That's what I thought. If he goes in and buys it for me then that's great and will be appreciated. I don't want to buy myself a gift with his money to make him feel good but off the hook. I would rather save for it and buy it when I can, not with a handout. Thank you!

The insults are still there but I think you would agree that it was very mild compared to what I used to receive pre-boundaries. I don't want to make excuses, but I saw the last comment as telling me how it made him feel. He did not impose his views on me or punish me for having opinions or tell me what was going to happen now, so I think it might actually be a step forward. Small step forward?


BS 32 (1st marriage), WH 38 (2nd marriage), DD 3, DS 1
Married Aug 2002, EA/PA 2005, NC mid 2005
EA Jun 2008, Plan A, 1 Aug 2008, WH moved out 14 Sep 08, D-Day 14 Sep 08, Moved home 2 Nov 08, moved out 30 Nov 08
Plan B, 2 Dec 08, broken 5, 11, 15 & 17 Dec 08
Current Status: Contact for visitation, children and finances.
Embarking on a new plan to Let go and Let God and to not settle for less than I deserve!
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