BS. Listen you guys are married. You have a RIGHT to 1/2 of that money. Do you have access to it? If you do, then take 1/2 of it NOW, before its gone.


He's probably thinking, who is this woman that dares to stand up for herself and our marriage!


Why did you ask him to leave? Did he say he was going at this point?


If he said he was going, this is perfect!


That's a lie. He was testing your boundary.


This is a direct threat. I'm worried that he's planning to do something with the money and leave you high and dry.


He really likes to mess with your head. Tell him if he wants you to have a ring, then he'll get it. And then walk away.


Is this what you said during your discussions earlier? Or recent? Major LB.

Learn to stop LB. He expects it. The next time he's insulting to you, just say hmmmmm, and walk away. When he sends you a nasty text, delete it. Do NOT respond. You teach people how you want to be treated. You do NOT have to listen and you do NOT have to respond. That's why he does it. He can count on a reaction from you. Stop reacting.

Nope - his own account with his own passwords and cards.


Yes, I asked if he was and he said he was considering it and had checked with his work and could move his days to Wednesday and Saturday and it was no problem. From what he said I really thought he had told them yes.

In relation to the money, I am not sure he will do anything directly, but his intention is to buy another BMW for resale but is considering paying a $1,000 deposit now and picking up the car in 2009. It's an ok option by me, but he wants a car now beacuse of our current marital situation. We can't be a one car family right now. I told him if that was his motivation then he should buy something cheap and leave the money in the bank.



Yes, last night. And I feel horrible about it. I justified it as explaining how my mind might work without knowing the honest truth. I guess I was trying to manipulate him into telling me the truth. Another major LB.


You're right. I need to stop reacting. I am being the person that he hates and that's all he needs to continue to justify his secrecy and bad behaviour. I have to remember that I do not have to listen and do not have to respond. I actually walked away last night but he mumbled something and I skipped back in to ask him to repeat it and was more than happy to react.

And i really thought I was on the right track. What are LB's? I know I should know this but I only know them after I do them. How do you do it before you say something?

Boundaries are getting better

Now I need to stop LB's.

I'm on shaky ground, not feeling very empowered anymore.

He called about work stuff and then mentioned that he hasn’t had a chance to look for places to move to yet. I said ok. He said I want him out but I’ll just have to wait. He said I begged him to come back for the kids and we agreed to coexist. Now I am messing him about by kicking him out. I said I was setting my boundaries to protect my heart and he was taking things out of proportion. He said he’s in and out of the house and it’s messing him and the kids about and that I'm nasty and mean and then he hung up.

I think he is hoping I will beg him to stay? It took everything I had not to. I want him to stay but not like this.

Should I write him a text/email/letter to state my boundaries so that he gets it?

If you say mean things to me, openly continue your secret relationship with OW when you know how hurtful it is to me, come home when it suits you because it is none of my business and keep me at arms length...

I will ask you to find somewhere else to live. I need to protect my heart and my feelings to save my love for you and have any real chance of reconcilation if that is what we both want. Some time apart may offer us both a really good opportunity to focus on ourselves and repair the hurt and look for a positive way forward out of this mess as you have suggested.

Any tips? The board goes quiet over the weekend and I don't think I can hold it together without some help.

I guess he is testing my boundaries again. He just sent me an email which was 100% about the car discussion and asking my opinion about the purchase etc.

Not one mention of our discussion or any hurtful words.



-----------edited to add-----------

He called again re the car as I hadn't sent a response. He was polite, thoughtful and fine.

I told him I was still unsure. He said he has not committed to anything and might go to see them tomorrow. I said that we could go on the way to the wedding. He asked me if I was still going. I said of course, unless he'd decided not to take me, he said that's fine.

I am still planning to dress up and look amazing and do an expert plan A tomorrow.

I also said that it might not be a good idea considering our current relationship and he said it doesn't change anything, we're still making money and there's no difference.

No mention of living arrangement!

Weird, can't make head or tail of it.

What do I do?

Do I bring up the living arrangement and him moving out or just continue plan A with no LB's etc until he brings it up

AND what do I do if/when he brings it up again?

It is pointless to try and talk sense to him. He is all over the place which is par for the course with WHs at your stage of the game
They cannot be trusted to tell the truth about ANYTHING They have so many lies, plots and sub plots on the boil. They are stressed to the max trying to keep everything under control.I think you have got very little chance to achieve consensus on any thing and would be well advised to make plans on your own without consultation.

The idea of renting the house is a very good one. You could rent it furnished on a 6 mo lease and then at the end of 6 mo of plan B you can make a decision to take it from there. I would talk to a local agent about the possibilities and make it available at the end of January when everyone comes back from the summer holidays. It is not a good time to do it now .

We have had dealings with agents and they are very variable in quality. The big real estate chains are full of showy, inexperienced, untrustworthy slime-buckets IMO.Go for an older guy who really knows the business. He can be the one to break the news to WH that he no longer has a home to go to REMEMBER AFFAIRS ARE UNFAIR you do not owe it to him to tell him anything until it is fait accomplis You do not have to play fair in any way shape or form.This is a very important boundary

That would give you 2.5 months to prepare alternative accommodation for yourself.I would not have any discussion about it with him at all he will try to take control and torpedo any arrangements you try to discuss with him

He is used to the idea that he has the right to barge in however and whenever he likes. It would be impossible to disabuse him of this sense of entitlement if you tried to plan B from where you are now.BTW what are his entitlements? As I understand it the house is solely in your name and you are the one who says what goes. He relinquished his rights to do the deal on the car.

In the meantime swot up on reverse babble ,agree with whatever he says don't allow him to bait you into an emotional meltdown. It might be good to start a thread just about the effective use of Reverse Babble. You might get more ideas that way.

Finally there are so many missing pieces to this story another thread on surveillance might be helpful the voice recorder and/or global tracking device could fill in some missing parts.

PS Both Tully and mgolfer are a stage ahead of you in the plan B
stakes neither of them are trying to make it easy for the WH or the WW. Apeasement does not work at all well in this game.

whenever you are in doubt, one of the BEST things you can do is:
absolutely nothing

Our human nature says that when you get a nasty text message, full of threats, your first reaction is to defend yourself. He is slandering you and you need to respond as quicly as possilbe!!!

But trust me on this one - your best response is silence. I think you may have all ready seen that. He calls you with his ramblings about how you are kicking him out, messing with his head, etc. You KNOW you did not mess with his head. He messed with yours! He moved in while you were out of town, and then spent the next 2 weeks reminding you that he truly hates you, is not there for you, only the kids, and you are not officially in a R any longer. HE messed with YOU.

when he rambles like that, and you know it is all a bunch of BS, resist the urge to respond. Let him ramble. As you can see, just a short time later he had gotten over it and was talking about the car again. you did nothing - and he just got over it on his own.

I truly think he was trying to get you to beg him to stay. That is what he is looking for. when you beg him to stay, he feels in control again. Dr Phil would call it his pay off. He threatens to leave, even starts to pack his bags, just so you will beg him to stay. And then when you beg him, then he can stay and hold over it your head. "I am only here becuase you begged. I don't really want to be here, I am only doing it for you, so you better do everything I say, or I am leaving. Just remeber, I have one foot out the door at all times, so treat me right, or I am out of here!!"

That is not Marriage- that is black mail. You have called his bluff- and LOOK - he is still there. You called his bluff and it worked.

He may even move out at some point. and that is ok. Because at least now he knows that if he wants to stay there, he has to quit threatening you. there is no longer a pay off for him. He threatens to leave and you say "If you are planning to go, let me know. I would like to know ahead of time"
no more pay off for him. Just like a child - if his pouting doesn;t work, he will eventually stop pouting.

I know that you have no completely gained your strength back - but please try to get some of that money, or a decent car for yourself. Why does he have to buy an expenisve car? Why can't you each have a standard, decent car? he keeps asking for your opinion - quit trying to make him happy, and appease him. Instead, say "perhaps we could purchase 2 simple, basic, family cars".
Or, tell him you want $10,000 to use for future bills, house payments, etc. In an account, in your name.

I agree with every poster here who says you should get half of that money. that is the real truth. But I know that you are not going to ask for half, so please ask for at least part!




EXACTLY right. he did want you to beg him - and you did not fall for it. That is awesome. If you had begged him to stay he would have happily stayed - and treated you like crap. You would have had another month of listening to him tell you that he is only there for the kids, because you begged, blah blah, he hates you, he can do whatever he wants to becuase you are not in a R, you name it. the same tired old rubbish. now he sees that if he wants to stay with you, he ahs to treat you with respect. Great job.

P.S. LB means Love Buster

Phew, made it through the weekend!

Friday night we both stayed home. He was sick and we even snuggled a bit on the couht, well, he put his head in my lap anyway.

Up Saturday, getting ready for wedding, dropped off kids and mum and dad's and home to pick up WH. I looked incredible, mum and dad said so but he didn't say anything.

On the way into the city he said that he didn't even feel like taking me, but I looked stunning and was an evolution because he can hate me one minute and love me the next.

The whole day was like this. Big compliment followed by reality of hate etc.

He missed the vows and verse during the ceremony, too busy snapping photos to notice me crying and hear anything himself. Afterwards we joked around at the wedding and he was snapping photos of me like I was a model. I hammed it up and it was heaps of fun. Some of the guests said I looked like Meghan Gale on the catwalk. (It was a rickity bridge out onto a small dam in the bride's parents property).

We hung out and no one knew that we were separated so it was easy to chill and have fun.

We left, I said thanks for taking me etc and his demons took over. There was a bit of arguing, telling me just because we had a good day doesn't mean everythings ok etc etc.

Told me that he was pissed off that I'd begged him to come home and then asked him to leave. I told him I asked him to come home to work on our marriage and if he was going to be there for the kids, to be civil and polite and not tell me he hates me etc.

So, we got a coffee, everything ok, then more arguing. Drop him off to gig with OW and the tension was thick. Said he didn't want to come home to me. Told me that if it was based on looks he would come back to me because I am gorgeous, but, he hates who I am and who I've become etc.

I thought that OW was giving him a lift home after the gig, actually think I suggested it at some stage. He was in tears when he got out of the car and dropped his microphone down 2 flights of cement stairs and it smashed. I saw it and tried to help but you can imagine how that went.

I left in tears and cried and did laundry, cleaned the house like a mad woman and watched Nights in Roadanthe. Not a good film for someone in plan A or B in my opinion!

I went to bed at 12am. He called me at 1:30am and said he'd had a bad night because of my comments etc. Then, he called me at 1:45am and asked me to pick him up. I had offered, so I said yes.

We drove home in silence. I went straight to bed and he came up to the bedroom to say thanks for the lift and he felt really sick and didn't know if he would make it to church for the kids play. I said sleep well. he said don't tell me to sleep well!

Sunday morning got up, told him when I was leaving and asked if he still wanted to come. He said yes, said he didn't want to speak to my parents or sisters.

Got to church, he sat with the family, was great with the kids and stayed for 30 minutes before going out for coffee. He hasn't been to church regularly in years so this was a big step anyway.

He came to pick us up and took DD home on the train for a ride. DS and I picked them up at the station and we went home. He left at 3:30pm to get out of the house.

I remembered from his emails that he was meeting up with OW to see her new show. Her parents would be there too. I called him at 7:30pm from the bath and asked him if he was with her at the gig and he said yes. Not with her and family but at the back of the room and doesn't want to lie to me anymore.

Called me at 9pm to say he cannot get accommodation yet, not for another week or so. I said ok, I knew it would take him time. He asked if I wanted to leave for a break and I said no. He said maybe we should not talk to each other.

I told him I had received a facebook request from an ex-boyfriend of mine from 15 years ago. I lost my virginity to him, fell pregnant, miscarried twins, he smashed my car and left me in it unconsious while he ran to dodge the cops, he bashed me, stole money, didn't work or contribute and cheated on me at least twice in the two years that I mothered him and tried to fix him.

I sent him a short note to say I was great and happy and pretend that my life had turned out great. I cried for the next 2 hours. I haven't changed. I am the same person who doesn't value myself.

WH said he wants to send him a message to bug off. I know WH relates to some of this and it hurts him too.

He came into the city with me this morning and asked me to take him to the bank where he transferred the car money to my bank account. Yes, I was surprised too. Told me $1,000 is my profit share to do with what I want. he kept $1,000 profit for himself too.

He told me it doesn't mean anything. He loves me but this still isn't working out and he doesn't want to be with me and he sees himself as single etc.

Then, he asked me for coffee and took me into his new work to meet his colleagues and see his shop/desk etc.

Boy am I confused today!

I agree with everything you mentioned. I had mentioned leasing out the house to him on Friday night before I saw your post. He put the breaks on and said not to do anything till Jan. I get the feeling he doesn't want to miss out if he changes his mind.

There are missing parts to this story. It appears she does have a boyfriend from what other band members say but he is living in her pocket and if she went for it, I think he would be there too.

Reverse babble is a gerat suggestion. I do need to learn it.

I am so glad you reminded me of this. I read it Saturday night and it worked so much better for the rest of the weekend.


You are truly great and spot on. I think you will see from my extra long weekend post that he is still blowing hot air and not going anywhere. I'm leaving tonight or tomorrow has now turned into maybe next week, when somethings available.

It drives me bananas, but it sure helps to stand my ground and not waiver. He is almost getting it and realises I'm standing firm on this one. I might not have lots of boundaries in force yet, but this one is firm. When he starts on the "begging me to stay" I just reiterate that I want him to stay to work on the marriage, and if he lives in the house without that common goal I expect honesty and respect.






I am so glad I got ALL of the money. Only missing $1,000. YAY

I will not beg him to stay. you are spot on with what he would say to me and I won't give him that.

What should I do now?

Right now, even though I have $71,000 back in the bank account, I feel really sad, lost, alone and out of control.

By out of control, I mean powerless. WH is going to do what he's going to do. I can't control him. He loves me but I can't make him want to work on our marriage.

In 7 months we can apply for D.

My birthday is in 17 days, Christmas in 5 weeks.

Is it time to let go and give up?

Do I say that I want to give up MC?

Do I say that if he sees any value in continuing he should pay and take ownership?

Do I ask him to leave instead of putting up with his scraps of attention when it suits him?

I still have a foreboding that he would go to a PA if OW was interested.

Help please

Let's see if I can interpret your WH's fogspeak. He's a tough case for sure and trying to figure him out could give you whiplash.




Translation: I had a good day and don't want to admit that I enjoyed myself with you because it goes against all my justifications. It makes me realize that I am wrong so I'll just say something hurtful because then I can believe my justifications again.





Translation: I came home but I didn't want to have to work at anything because that would be admitting that I am doing something wrong which upsets all my justifications.




Translation: I hate who I have become because seeing the changes in 2m2l makes me see that I really hate who I am. So, I'll shift that hate onto her because seeing her this way-beautiful and fun-really is causing me to question what the h@#* I'm doing.



Translation: My justifications aren't holding any water and I really don't want to face what I'm doing-so I will say something really mean to get her upset. Then, I can pretend that it's her problem and not mine.

Please don't consider what he says and does as the truth right now. He's a wayward and as a wayward, he is not the man you married. He's like an alien that has inhabited your H's body and brain.

(((2m2l)))

Thank you for the interpretations and the hug

You have helped restore my sanity before the trip home to be mum and B-wife again.

Maybe the whiplash explains the ache in my neck afterall.

Thank you for reminding me that he is an alien. I keep forgetting and trying to understand him is doing my head in.

Should I hope that I'm maybe getting through, or is that taking things too far?

Thanks again JT
2M2L.

2m2l-

I'd say he's uncomfortable on his fence-for sure. I wouldn't worry about it or try to make any thing happen.

Sometimes you have to let them stew and let God do the basting. Don't try to get in there and do it yourself.

Work on you and meet his EN's. If he becomes crabby-pants, or down right ornery, let him. He's stewing and the Holy Spirit is marinating.

You know what they say about too many chefs...

Hang in there-

Get that money into a seperate account - in your name alone - that you can not easily access. No ATM access, no check writing abilities. You KNOW how soft you are!!! He could come crying to you one night asking you to give him $70,000 cash and you would write a check to him right then and there. You may decide to split the money with him some day, but you should only split it with him after careful thought and planning. I would suggest that the two of you do not touch that money until there has been a HUGE improvement in your M (which would take about a year) or D papers filed. If you deicde to file papers, this could be used to pay for the lawyer, and then later split. I don;t know why he did this - perhpas someones prayers have been answered! But please be smart about it now. This is a huge blessing for your family. Think of your future, and yoru childrens future.

And dont you dare run out and buy him a sports car for Christmas. I know that you were all ready thinking about it - but don't do it. You would only have buyers remorse in January when you are broke, and he is still acting like a jerk.

You handeled this very well. I am so proud of you!

He is still hoping you will beg him to stay. But he continues with this rubbish:
You would not accept this srot of talk from a co-worker, or a friend. You do not need to accept it from your WH who has cheated on you twice, and yet blames you for it.

You are doing a great job, you really are.

I am especially interested in your past R - which clearly is a mirror of your current M. Please stop all contact w/ the old boyfriend. That man was poison to you last time, and will be poison to you again. Plus, you would not want your WH to carry on a R with his ex girlfriends, so show him how an an adult M is supposed to be. Adults, who are M, do not carry on converstaions with old boyfriends/girlfriends. If you continue to have a converstaion with your old BF, you will be showing yor WH that this is perfectly ok. But it is not.

Plus, you and I belong to the club for "Women Who Love Too Much" and you could easily get sucked back into a R with that guy, who left you to die in a wrecked car to save his own a$$. that guy is part of the past - leave him there.

So you have a problem with settling for bad relationships, and trying to fix them. there is clearly a pattern here. You do not have to fix this man - either he will get the desire for a better life, or he won't. Just like I can not fix my brother the Meth addict - you can not fix these men that insist on acting like children. Stop mothering him, and give him the chance to either grow up or go away.

I didn't think it was possible to slip any lower, but here it is...

We called him as I was going to put the kids to bed to see if he needed to be picked up. He said he'd missed his train and was getting a drink in the city.

I wasn't happy, kids and I all feel sick, and want to go to bed.

I said why didn't you call.

He said he doesn't have to.

I said I though you wanted to be a good father, you should have called, DD is in your bed feeling sick and crying for you.

They spoke to each other, she handed phone back and he called me a slu-t and said he hoped I die.

I said I will not be talked to like that and hung up.

He called back 10 minutes later, kids were already in bed. He said I needed to apologise or he would come home and pack his bags. I said what for, I don't deserve to be treated like this. He told me what train he was catching and I said the kids were in bed. He said I guess that means you wont pick me up and I said no.

He said fine, he make his own way home.

I cleaned the kitchen and jumped into bed, feeling very sick.

He got home, had walked 30 minutes from the station and came into the bedroom and started packing.

I let him to it. I said do you want to dialogue about it, he said tomorrow. No problems.

He got really mad, told me how horrible I was to make him walk home in the cold etc, called him a bad father, how dare I etc.

Told me he was taking the car. I called his brother to talk some sense into him but it back fired. I got nothing and WH said I haven't changed.

Said he couldn't leave until Wednesday because he had to get things organised.

He said we both have to admit that we shouldn't be married and this can't work. That I don't really love because of all of the trouble I caused with his work, exposure. At some stage, I took off my rings and agreed with him. Said I love him but I will not keep putting myself this. I will not keep figthing for our M. If he really wanted to be here, he'd make an effort and not continually put me down and make me jump through hoops.

He said he'd tell me a secret and i couldn't use it anywhere else. He could never marry OW or live with her, said she'd do his head in within 3 months.

He jumped on my laptop to check his email and went to bed.

This morning, wants me to go to the bank and transfer the money back to buy the car.

Arguments the whole way in, he told me I need to apologise to OW, she doesn't deserve any of this and I have to get off it to ever make a difference. I got really upset. I cried, hit the door and told him to leave me alone. I just can't handle his berating me. Just because you love someone doesn't mean they can keep telling you it is all your fault that we are here, M was over long before OW, OW never happened, it was all in my head, i have made a mess of everything, things would have been different if I just stopped......

That this has happened to him before and he knows how i feel about things and its not that bad. That I call people and am selective with what I say and play the victim. That the forum did not work for me and he's surprised, he thought I would be really great after it.

Told me he's happy I got so upset. That finally I see what I've been doing to him and that it doesn't feel nice to go to work like this. Glad I'm upset. Glad i finally see how much I have hurt him.

I told him I would not be transferring the money to his account. I don't trust him. If he wants a BMW I'll write the cheque to them directly and register it in my name, but would not give him the cash.

He jumped out of the car and walked to work. I drove here, still shaking and upset and scared.

------------edit to add----------

He said he understands why the MC is tearing his hair out with us. We both lash out with hurtful comments when we argue and we can't argue at a respectable level. We get low and nasty, drag up the past and have no skills whatsoever. I wrongly jumped into how I had taken my ring off and I get that he doesn't want to be married or work on this so he has his wish. I give up. That was right before I told him I would write the cheque instead of transferring the money.

ok.....you did really well here when you refused to hand him the money. I still don't understand why he must have a BMW? Don't you have any normal cars over there? Can't he drive a simple, brand new car that does not cost the family $70,000?
I am proud of you for holding your ground and not giving him the money. But cant he find a resonably priced car to purchase, so you could still have some money left in the bank for future expenses? That money is not truly "cash in the bank" it is a loan against your home. You should have some tucked away for the future.


I can not blame you for being upset, and saying that you thought he wanted to be a good father. He has put you through he11. But as a general rule, you should not attack him in this way. I just think it is best to not attack his character, and not accuse him of being a bad father. We would always hope he would be a better father, but if you attack his character, he may just give up.

You have every right to tell him that you, and the children, need to be in bed by 9:00 each night. if he would like to be picked up at the train staion, you would be happy to do so, as long as he arrives by 8:30. You are doing this for yourself and your kids! That man is being a selfish child by asking you to get the kids out of bed to pick him up wheneer he feels like it.
Bravo. Well done. the kids need some stability in their life, which includes getting to bed at a decent time each night.
You have set a boundary, and stuck to it.
This is totally unacceptable. without a doubt. You need to tell him that you will never listen to this talk from him again, ever.


He is not going to take your car. you need that car to get the kids to day care, get yourself to work,etc. If he is not interested in staying Married to you, that is unfortunate. It makes you sad to hear that he no longer loves you. But you are still a Mom, you still have children to care for, and responsibilities to take care of. he is not to take your car.
If he would like to talk about purchaseing a car for himself, you would be open for that dialogue. But he is not taking yours.

Why did you call his brother?? Lets not go there anymore. If you are in danger, and need help, then call your own family, or call the police. But married couples do not call their brothers to solve their fights.


Ok, so here you say something like: I am so sorry to hear that. The kids and I have a family. We are loving, and caring. It is too bad that you want to throw us out the window to chase someone who you could never even marry. that makes me very sad.

(I will tell you something I suspect - I think that he is chasing the OW, and she is not all that intersted)

Of course you cant. You shouldn't have to. It is abuse and it needs to stop.

When he sees you upset, he feels like he is back in contorl again. It makes him feel like a big man. The school bully. He wasn't happy when you were calm and talking to him like an adult. he had to keep picking at you and picking at you until you finally broke. Now he is happy again. you are broken again. he feels better. It is sick. He is sick.

Tell him he is a bully and you will not let him bully you any longer. You would be happy to purchase a car for him - but not a BMW. And you will not allow anyone to call you a sl-ut and live in your home. This is your home, your sancuary, and you will protect yourself here.

You are getting tired of his crap. You have being doing the plan A for far too long.

You need to talk to your parents again. I'm afraid you are keeping too many secrets from them.

I read the Verbal Abuse thread and had an attack of conscience when I saw the response by LovingAnyway:-


I believe that I will never experience my old H until I treat him in the manner LA described. I am treating him as a WH and I am getting the WH all of the time.

I called my WH and said I wanted to begin to relate to him with trust and respect and I would transfer the money for the car as discussed.

He realted to me well without anger and said he would do the right thing and had a good feeling about the money we would make on this car. He's right, we do stand to make a lot of money and we've been buying and selling cars for 8 years so I know he's right.

However, I think that he will buy the car and leave me.

Breaking news - DD is sick and I need to pick her up ASAP from day care.

Looks like I cannot transfer the money today, and it's out of my power for today at least. I'll check later for any words of wisdom that anyone can offer me today.

Thank you.

But you have DONE all these things.
You have treated him with love and kindness - even when he did not treat you well in response.

2M2L - you are scared, and you are retreating to the only behavior you know how. You are going back to the endless plan A, because you are afraid to stick up for yourself.

The man called you a sl-ut and said that he hopes you will die, and your response was to tell him you will treat him with more respect and give him $70,000.


If that happens, would you finally stop letting him treat you like crap?


Here are your words of wisdom - don't give him the money.
But I know you will - because you wnat to buy his affection.

Can you at least make sure your name is on the car this time???



Of course he related to you well. He threw a big fit, broke you down, and then got his way. There is his pay off right there.
Heck, I would be willing to bet you get SF out of him tonight after this.

I love you like a sister, but I just don't know if I can watch you self destruct like this any longer.
Is there any chance that you could call the Harleys for a phone counseling session??

I have watched your thread, and not posted before now, but I feel I just have to let you know what I perceive.

If you have $71,000 in the bank, don't you think you could afford at least one phone session with Harley?

Girl, you need to get a PLAN!!!

All I see is a bunch of LB's, on your part, all over this thread!!

You haven't been in any plan here, no Plan A, no Plan B, just plan ME.

Why do you keep letting your WS push your buttons? Can you please step back before you just react? What you are doing is not doing you any good, you are just keeping the dance going.

I know your WS is pretty mean, but you do have a choice of whether or not to respond to his crap. And you do, you just let it rip.

Please don't make me quote, but you just keep arguing. What about meeting his EN's?

Where is your plan?

Why do you trash OW? Why do you say the things you do that are meant to provoke? ie: remarking that your WS would get an expensive hotel room so he can F OW's brains out. NONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!

STOP giving this man ammunition!!!

Please find a plan and quit this nonsense. You are LBing your way right into a divorce.

PLEASE call and make an appointment with MB counselors.

What you are doing is NOT working. Please get a PLAN.

Sorry for the 2X4. :twobyfour:, I just had to. I do not post anything without a great deal of thought.

I know you love your H, but you are not even near to salvaging your marriage or recovery.

You need to work on you. Forget him. Quit playing his game.

You have to start from square one, because what you are doing is NOT working.

I'm sorry hon, but you need to change what you are doing. Please call the Harley's and get some help.

Praying for you,

Love in Christ,
Miss M

PS. Oh, and don't think I don't understand your situation. My H is a musician and had an A with someone he was in a band with.