Mark,

you disappoint me......

I'll try to be more verbose in the future...

Mark

Hey N2F,

I had my one year anti-versary 2 weeks ago, kinda sucked but I got thru it. Next one is going to be Christmas day, then one in Jan, one in feb, and 2 in march

I try to think on the positive stuff ... easier said than done I know.

Keep on keeping on as an old lady I know says.

Good morning folks....

Well, I wish I could say the day went well, but nope it didn't. It ended pretty darn sourly........

H and I weren't connecting well. He came home late, then he took me to Circuit City (he wanted to go...he's all in this Christmas mood....) and then we went to the mall. We hung out a little bit. I would seem to get in and out of my moods (told ya, emotions all over the place.....).

Later we went to bed and watched some TV. I rubbed his back. Then there was an interview on TV with that call girl from NY (the one that got the governor in trouble???...). She was saying how she felt bad for his wife, I said that she should have thought of that when she spread her legs (not nice....I know..). Then they went on to talk about some book out there for OW's and H said "I don't understand".

I rolled over and said (not so nicely I should add...) "It would be a book for COW telling her how to woo and keep her married man".....He told me to calm down, don't let it get to me.....HATE IT when he does that...

So I rolled back over, and he snuggled up to me. I told him my emotions where all over the place today. He said I needed to get better at that. Which iratated me....

So I told him that it was a year ago I discovered his affair. He kind of got deflated and rolled back over.

Then we got into a discussion about me sending him this tm yesterday. It was really stupid. He said I didn't, I knew i did. I had to be right and got him his phone to show him. He said it really didn't matter (it was a very nice tm btw) and that he can't remember when I tm him.

Then I got angry. I said that hurt my feelings. He said that was stupid and he doesn't understand why. I told him because he spent plenty of time "remembering" when his girlfriend tm'ed him.

He got angry and stormed out of the house and didn't come back......


So there it is.....I know where I messed up. I know what I did wrong.....

what I don't get is.......why is it that "I" am mean and cruel by saying something about her (keep reminding him of her.....bringing her up....) yet he can spend the night at his condo, which to me would be a HUGE reminder??? (he says its not, that he spent more time there without her than with her.....)

not2fun

ps.....I am needing help with all of this.....

Okay,,,,,,here's where I need help......

How do I keep my taker in check, yet stated my feelings and thoughts all at the same time???

And is it not using RH to tell H what I am feeling and why??? I mean, I didn't need a drawn out conversation with him about all of it. I didn't need to "replay" last year.

And then is it not okay for me to be hurt that he can't remember when I tm him (he never even acknowledged that it was even sent....) but yet I can't help but remember that he was "waiting" for her emails and tm's, and that they didn't go unacknowledged.....(unfortunately, I had "forgotten" what was in that email last year, but yesterday it came back to me.....it was a love note which started out about how much he apprieciated HER email.......)

yuck yuck yuck....

not2fun

N2F,

I must chime in on your thread reagarding this insane decision to leave condo keys in the hands of your F(?)WH.

If H has a place to run to after dealing with your hurt/pain, it will never get resolved.

Turn in the keys to you or the rental company TODAY! Donate everything that is in the condo to Goodwill or Salvation Army or a group that will come in and clean it completly out ASAP. Keep nothing!

This condo is allowing H to run and hide.

You are at the 6 month mark and it is a difficult time for many BS's. You need to feel safe to talk about what is going on and H is not allowing that to happen. You are going to become resentful over and over again until H is willing to stay and sooth you through your pain a few times. Only then will you both work through these issues into a better marriage.

Not,

You asked for it...

Question: Did you inform him before you triggered over the day and it’s meaning to you that you were experiencing anxiety over it?

Another question: Did you tell him before this latest trigger what you need from him when you have triggers?

You can't change what happened a year ago.

And you can't change what happened yesterday.

But you might be able to change what happens tomorrow...

Why did he respond so quickly to her and can't even remember that you sent him a TM? I have no idea. Why did my wife spend hours on the phone with OM, write poems for him, write short stories about him and send pictures of herself with captions even more suggestive than the poses themselves to him but can't seem to take ten minutes out of her day to talk to me about what we are doing this weekend or wear something other than jeans and a sweatshirt for our one night out together per month?

Some people are energized by the fantasy of an affair. It causes them to do things that are not in their basic nature and even things they would never dream of doing if not for the affair. It isn't the affair partner that causes them to do this but the fantasy itself.

For some it might be the fact that what they are doing is exciting simply because it is taboo and wrong and they think they are getting away with it. For others it might be that because both affair partners are feeding each other’s fantasy and in order to manipulate it to into their own special fantasy they both give what neither really wants in hopes of what they really want in return.

So why can't they do the same things for us, the ones they so easily betrayed? Why did they work so hard to flirt with someone else when they could have gotten more from us with so much less effort?

It's because they can get more from us with less effort...

It's not your taker that is giving you trouble; it is your anger. And your anger is coming from being hurt and him not doing what you need him to do to make it up to you.

But he can only do what he knows to do. Unless you tell him specifically what you need from him in order to get past the triggers he can only stumble about aimlessly trying different things until he hits on something that works.

And the bottom line is that you will occassionally trigger over somthing. And that is OK, too. It's alright to trigger and be moody and upset that life has dealt you such a crummy hand. It's OK to gte mad andeven yell every now and then inorder to get over what is hurting you. But he needs to know what you expect from him when it happens and not doing what he did a year ago just isn't an option. It already happened and isn't going to not have happened no matter what he does.

The state of the marriage before the affair was 50% yours and 50% his. The affair was all his. But recovery is 50% yours and 50% his. Fixing the problems in the marriage that were there before the affair is 50% yours and 50% his. Working through your hurt unfortunately is less than 50% his. That belongs to you and YOU have to figure out what you need in order to stop hurting. Then and only then can he do his share.

Now I know that you have hit the one-year mark of D-day. But you are not that far into recovery yet and some anger appears long after recovery begins. Six months pretty much sucks when it comes to being angry and resentful. The honeymoon period is over, the gratefulness for his returning home has passed and now you need more from him than he is giving.

So what do you need from him?

Is it something he refuses to give though he knows what it is? Or is it something he is scrambling about trying to discover so that he cannot make the same mistakes he made yesterday?

Or is it simply that nothing he can do will ever be enough to make up for what he has taken away from you?

This is where counseling can do more than just muddling through this stuff alone. A third party helping you identify just exactly what it is that you need from him and helping him understand that he needs to do it without having to be prompted can often make the difference in overcoming triggers.

At the height of her fantasy w/ OM, my wife was a size 4, wore tight short-shorts and a tank top to mow the lawn. She wore a short leather skirt, sexy bustier and leather jacket with heels that were over 4 inches high to go to the same bar where he hung out and manipulated her friends into going there for the night even though they wanted to go somewhere else.

Now she is no longer lost in that fantasy and she is a size 12, seldom wears anything sexier than jeans a sweatshirt and sneakers with Velcro closures and when it's time for bed she puts on a suit of armor (flannel night gown and cotton briefs---so sexy, huh?)...

Now it isn't that I would appreciate something different. It isn’t that I don't show up for bed in silk boxers or wear greasy coveralls when we are together. But before the affair she dressed the same way most of the time and after the affair she has returned to the way things were. She puts no extra effort into being married in spite of the hoops she jumped through to attract OM...

And every time I think about how she looked for him and compare it to how she looks for me...

It hurts...

And because it hurts it causes me to get angry...

And because I am angry I tend to withdraw and become sullen and moody...

And she knows why I am that way because I have told her...

Sometimes she just sits with me and cries on my shoulder...

And other times she leaves me alone to sulk for a while before finding something else to do that will make me feel better...

And some times, she just says, "I'm sorry I hurt you..."

And some times she says, "Thank you for being here with me..."

Nothing in the past changes, but we both work at keeping it from becoming our future as well.

Is that wordy enough for ya?

We'll work on his response later if that's OK.

Mark

PS I just gave a healing analogy from my own recovery from health issues on Ace's new Trials and Smiles 3 thread if you have time.

Any chance you guys could do a MB Weekend this upcoming year?

How is Boundaries going?

Question #1- no. I couldn't figure out before the day came if I should say something and once the day came I wasn't sure what to do....

Question #2-Not sure. Sometimes I think I have, other times no.....my guess would be since I can't answer that question the answer is no.....

Question #3-I DON'T KNOW....He keeps asking me "What do you want from me?", and I don't know. OR....if I do have something floating around in my over-processed head, I get afraid to answer it. Afraid he won't comply, afraid he will tell me that its stupid, afraid he'll think its ridiculous....

Question #4- I don't know about that either. Sometimes I think he can't do enough, other times I KNOW he can.......Then part of wonders if I just WISH I could be that type and the reality is I am not....BUT then again, I know I am that person. (Does ANYBODY else's brains go on like this??????)

So, I guess the answer is to write down what I need from him in order to heal. I then either tell him or give it to him and let the rest fall into his hands......but I do know this....I cannot MAKE him do anything. I cannot make him help me, I cannot make him feel remorse, I can not make him SHOW me he is remorseful......

"Boundaries"????? Man, its good BUT very very very INTENSE......I mean WOW.....I did have a nice big post on it, but then I accidentally erased it.....made me mad........
This stuff can be so hard.....I remember the "early" days....you made it easy...

1. meet all EN'S
2. advoid all LB'S
3. no EXPECTATIONS.......

not2fun

And now you're in recovery which is...

Meet his ENs

Avoid Love Busters

Expect him to step up to the plate and help you heal from what he did to you...

Still only three things and two of them are the same.

The problem is continuing the first two while waiting for the third to happen...

I remember years ago working in a nuke plant doing some testing. We had to verify that this one safety system would work as required without becoming a weak point and causing a bigger problem than it was supposed to solve by breaking and making a real mess.

Our test procedure called for us to fill this system with water...over a thousand gallons...then to build pressure inside the system by continuing to pump in additional water using a positive displacement pump until 3 times it's normal operating pressure was reached and to hold that pressure for 10 minutes and check the entire system for leaks.

Well it took all morning to set up, fill the system and get ready for the test. We started building pressure and pretty quickly hit operating levels at about 2500 PSI. So we kept going and soon we were at twice normal at 5K. Now at this pressure, water will cut concrete so any leaks could become a serious problem if they happened.

As I turned the bypass valve another turn the pressure came up quickly. As I neared the test spec of 7500 PSI the rate of climb slowed enough that it made us notice it. I turned another turn and the needle hardly moved. I turned it another with little change. I turned the handle about 1 tenth of a turn, the pressure dropped to zero and a sound like an angry freight train could be heard from the other side of the wall from where we stood.

Everybody ran at once. Some wanted to avoid being contaminated by thousands of gallons of contaminated water. Others wanted to find out where the water was going and make a way for it to be contained to minimize the damage. Some of the engineers ran to discover what part of the system had failed so catastrophically because it was their jobs on the line.

After about 20 minutes of running in all directions, the whole crowd reappeared at the job site where I still stood, wearing the protective clothing and wondering where everybody had gone. My crew and I were the only ones still at the job site and if the rest hadn't appeared soon we would have gone to take a break since there isn't a lot of point standing around taking exposure to that stuff if nothing is happening.

The general consensus was that no leaks could be found at all...anywhere in the system.

So we began again...

With the same results...

So to avoid giving anyone a heart attack from running all over the building (which was rather HUGE) we decided to go out to the office and study the prints to figure out where the water was going.

We found a relief valve, buried at the tail end of the system that if it failed would dump water into a tank. But the tank wasn't full of water...

We looked further and found that if the water level in the tank reached a certain level, an automated pumping system fired up and drained the tank to make more room for more water. We put a thousand gallons into the tank and by the time 100 were in there it was being pumped out at a rate of about 250 gallons per minute.

Now if this was where the water was going, it was designed to take water faster than we added it, but by the time you could check to see if any water was there, all the water we had pumped in was already gone.

We replaced the relief valve, tried again and the system did as we expected and passed the test.

But what we had was this tank that no matter how much water we put in emptied itself before we could verify that it had even had any water put into it. Considering it was supposed to stay ahead of water running in at nearly the rate we put it in for days on end without overflowing, this was actually working as it should.

But we had a hard time showing that the water had indeed gone into the tank and not somewhere else. And if we shut the pumps off so that the tank would fill up, the amount of water we put in the first few seconds would cause it to overflow and make a real mess.

We all have relief valves built into our lives. When certain things happen that cause pressure to build, these valves fire before the stress can overload us and make us break or fail in some way. The problem is that when these things go off, they drain everything in an instant. Even our love bank is drained automatically as our safety system starts pumping itself out.

And when things calm down, we don't even know where it all went...

It wasn't what he said last night that caused the system to fire off; it was the pressure that had been building up all day with nowhere to go. But what he said set the whole thing in motion and even your love bank drained away in seconds...

Possible solutions...

Replace the component that causes it to empty at that pressure so that it can withstand even more without relieving. The drawback of course is that some other system level might be exceeded and cause a failure in some other area maybe more dangerous than this one.

Redesign the system to isolate your love bank from the safety system so that everything isn't gone when the system does what it is designed to do. This of course will take time and might require some cut and try type stuff that if you exceed the overall capacity could lead to complete shutdown of the whole system...As in giving up on the marriage...

Or maybe an alarm could be installed that warned of impending overpressure situations at a level far enough below the maximum that adjustments could be made to prevent further pressure from causing the safety system to engage unless a serous crisis occurs. At least then it wouldn't come as a surprise to both of you.

You sound the alarm and he follows a procedure to relieve the pressure. (can think of some real fun stuff here)

Mark

What do you want from him, Not? I'm not getting this. To me, he seems to be doing sooo well. Didn't he put in the notice on the condo??? How come you didn't JUMP FOR JOY??? I'm not sure what you are wanting from him...

I was thinking earlier on in the week exactly what your H said.

You do seem to be RULED by your EMOTIONS.

It's sooo important to THINK before you ACT on your FEELINGS.

EXACTLY...Again he and I are on the same page....

I have read on HERE how he has EXPRESSED and EVIDENCED remorse...

Why do you HATE this?


How do you KNOW this? Sounds like a DJ to me. Who was he lying i there in the bed with? Why are you bringing HER up to him? This is where the MINDFULNESS comes in. THINKING before you SPEAK. NOT being RULED by your EMOTIONS. What was the VALUE in saying this? How does this line of communication help YOU or YOUR MARRIAGE?

Hi there Mimi...

Good to see ya.

/tj

Hi back atcha!!

As I was JUST NOW indicating...you know I LUV YA...

So I want to make sure you know what I left unsaid in my previous posts.

It may seem that I was being TOUGH on you.

I was.

Because I really believe that doing RECOVERY takes MENTAL TOUGHNESS.

That's why it's SOOO important to use all of the LIFE SKILLS and EMOTIONAL COPING SKILLS that you can put into play.

RECOVERY was the HARDEST thing that I have ever done.

It's like FORGIVING the UNFORGIVABLE.

It's NOT for everybody and I can fully understand a normal person NOT DOING IT...

I sometimes WONDER..if I was younger or newly married..or whatever..so much for the WHAT IFS....

When I went in, my H was able to tell me straight up: "I'm willing to do this if you don't continue to BEAT ME UP about it"..so I made that agreement from the start..that I would not BEAT HIM UP about the affair...

I really recommend that for you, NOT...

FOCUS ON YOUR MARITAL ISSUES NOW..and NOT the AFFAIR...

He has CHOSEN to be with YOU...so NOW it's about YOU AND HIM...

I'm saying that I FULLY, FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN AND NEED TO BEAT HIM UP ABOUT THE AFFAIR..but YOU CAN'T DO IT...

FOCUS on your OWN HEALING..that's what I found to be helpful too

Again as I always say..FOCUS ON YOURSELF..FOCUS ON YOURSELF..and NOT HIM...

FOCUS on the PRESENT and the FUTURE..and NOT THE PAST...

GRIEVE the OLD MARRIAGE..sad to say..it is now DEAD...

But you can have HOPE for THE BEST MARRIAGE EVER...

Mimi,

I know you do.....

And as far as your other posts being tough on me??? Well, I EXPECTED nothing less. I know you are right....my brain knows it, its just getting my heart there, KWIM????

There are even times when I FEEL it coming on and my brain is screaming at me..."NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...DON'T DO IT....DON'T DO IT....."

Ugh.....as far as focusing on my own healing, for the most part I have been. I have made so tremendous strides and learned sooooo much. Sometimes though, I do believe it is all so much to take in I don't know where to start.......and I also believe that when I am trying to change these habits and my thinking patterns (the old ways....) my taker is not liking it....

This is why I believe my friendship with Lala has been so valuable to me....she gives me insight into the wayward thinking. When he tells me something about all of this or how he's feeling, it sometimes doesn't make sense to me. I ask her, she's like "Yep, know all about that one.....".

As far as focusing on our progress, well, that is why I try not to post too much on something silly that he does. I try to keep it positive. Does that mean he's been perfect?? No, not hardly, BUT the changes he has made that are so positive to us, that is what I try to focus on.....

Keep doing what you been doing (like you really need me to tell you that.....)...the reason I came on here about all of that is BECAUSE I needed you all to help me get back on track. I couldn't seem to do it on my own and I had made H so mad that he wasn't any help either.

I was hoping I would get the ol' one/two punch. One being Mark with his calming words (notice he tore into me as well....just a little less directly....) and two being you telling me like it is......

As far as "what if's"?? Well, I AM younger than you were and not married near as long, SOOOOOOO you never do know....

not2fun

Not, in all of the above situations, your FWS had opportunities to HELP you HEAL. Each time, he chose to throw it back into your lap or to withdraw. Both responses I find unacceptable. This type of behavior leads to resentments.

He created all the sh*t you are dealing with. This is his mess to clean up, but he wants you to clean it up.

And considering it was D-day anniversary, HE fell way short of helping you recover from the trauma he inflicted on you.





A FWS actively working to earn his BWs trust and love would have RESPONDED to the freakin' TM. He completely dropped the ball here and should have apologized for it. That would have ended the whole discussion with the two of you connecting.

Instead....




You told him your feelings were hurt.

He called that stupid.

Sounds to me like HE isn't doing what's necessary to make your marriage safe FOR YOU.





OK, so now I KNOW your marriage is not a safe place for you. He LEFT????

So every time you express that your feelings are hurt, he runs away?!

This is completely unacceptable and is PUNISHMENT to you. "If you don't behave, I'll leave." Certainly doesn't sound like he's very invested in recovery. Sounds more like he wants to run and hide whenever he actually has to DO something to help you heal.






HUH?

This isn't so much about what YOU did wrong. I see a FWS not committed to doing the hard work of rebuilding love and trust. Sure, meeting EN's feels good and he'll partake in that. But don't make him face the real destruction that lies underneath the surface. He'll run and hide when that comes out.





Not, this is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. He still has his condo?!!!!! WTF!

When tst came home, we had his condo cleaned out. I tried to bring a few things here but it was too triggering. We ditched it all. He told the rental agency that he was moving out. They winterized the place and he finished paying his lease until it ran out. He turned in the keys and neither one of us ever returned there.

This condo needs to be OUT of your lives. It is a reminder to you and to him of the affair, of the abandonment, of all that SHOULD BE behind you at this point.

Not - did he come home and apologize and recognize the true nature of the wrong done here?

Don't you dare apologize for being sensitive enough to recognize that your marriage was falling back into complacency. Any man who on an anniversary of betrayal turns this against his wife and goes off to sulk needs to examine himself.

Has there been contact?

Have you continued to "trust but verify" or did you get complacent too?

Not,

You've been reading Boundaries, right?

I wasn't meaning to beat you up and I think you know that. My reasoning was that you still can't control him, only you and what you do in response to what he does or doesn't do.

If you have in fact told him in advance that you were experiencing anxiety over the day and all the triggers it brought, and he still acted like he was oblivious, then HE needs to be beat up...I'm willing if you can get him to sit still long enough for me to catch up to him.

But if he was oblivious because he now feels safe and complacent because he didn't realize the day was going to be a problem for you, then he needs to be told about it in order to know about it.

What I'm getting at is that for him, he mght not have realized you were having a problem and more specifically that it was tied to the day itself without anything else going wrong on top of it.

Now his response of running away sounds like he still doesn't want to face the music for what he did, but my point was that it might have been short circuited by telling him ahead of time, "Look, today is going to be hard for me because it is the anniversarry of when I found out about your affair..." Additionally, you might be able to let him know that you need him to do something specific for you in order to help you get past it with a minimum of trouble.

There really is only one way for him to make this right. That is "whatever it takes..." Anything less and he is still putting the load on you to overcome his mess.

But unless he knows that you are triggering and what to do when your are triggering and what to do for you to get you past the triggering and how to help you stop triggering, the best he can do is take a shot in the dark and see if it works. If it doesn't he has two choices, try something else or drop it because nothing will work, as far as he knows.

So for him to help you heal, he has to know when you are in pain and he has to know why you are in pain...And he has to know how to help you get over your pain.

We can all say "HE SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS WRONG!" He does know what is wrong. He messed up BIG TIME (Hate this new TOS filter ). He knows that. But he can't un-ring the bell and he has no clue what you need him to do for you unless you tell him.

You began telling us a few days before you had a problem that the day was coming and that you KNEW it would give you trouble. My question is, did you tell him?

You see, his affair didn't start on that day, you just found out about it then and if he was a typical wayward flibbertygibbit (trying to get around the TOS filter here ) then he had such a severe case of cranial rectumitis then that he probably can't remember what he did that day, and might not have been able to tell you with much detail even a day later let alone a year later.

The day was a trigger for you, but not for him. To him, the distress you felt was simply because he messed up and there was nothing he knew to do to fix it, since he can't undo his mess.

Think of the Policy of Radical Honesty for a minute. What specifically does it say?

Not talking about lying about an affair here, but about being totally honest about all aspects of our life. We should tell our spouse everything we know about ourselves, including our emotions and emotional state including the bad stuff. Ignoring the bad stuff and focusing on the good stuff doesn't improve the bad and can only detract from the good.

Suppose I said "I'm not happy right now."

Your first response might be "Why is that?" In fact, if you instead said, "Gee, I'm sorry to hear that, " you have no idea why I am unhappy and I still am unhappy and only I know what's wrong and now I am mad because you don't care why I'm unhappy.

Now if I was unhappy because of soemthing you did or said, then not telling you will not help me at all and can only make you wonder if that is the case.

Your husband KNOWS that what he did is the ultimate cause of all of this grief you are both going through, but if things went along pretty smoothly for a couple of days and then turned sour quickly, he knew something was wrong but might not have known it was the day itself and since for him it was still all about the affair and not just the day, which quite honestly is your problem and not his, though without his mess-up (danged filter- what if I wanted to refer to a helical fastener with a pan head with Phillips drive? ) you wouldn't have the problem...

This is way too confusing...

Getting over the triggers is really hard stuff. When my 1st year Dday anniversary approached I thought we were sailing right along. The day itself actually turned out to be better than I feared but the days leading up to it were absolute hell (and know this one gets though ). I withdrew from her, she knew I was withdrawing and then a minor incident turned into a night of shouting, accusations and sleeping in separate rooms. ( I got the sofa... :RollieEyes:)

So, since we all heard that you were about to have a really bad day just because it was THE day, did he know about it? If not, why not?

And does he know what you need him to do when you trigger in general? Some people want to be left alone. Some people want to scream and vent. Some people want to be held and allowed to cry on someone's shoulder...Some just need to be acknowledged. I don't know what you need because you've never told me.

Does he know? Did you tell him?

Now if you did tell him you were about to trigger, told him you were triggering when you were and told him before that you needed ____ in order to get past it, then ignore all of this and my preceeding post.

Now I have a message for him...

Lose the condo pronto. Sell, donate or burn everything in it that isn't necessary for your life to continue. Are you seriously considering a bottle of vodka to be of any value even close to that of your wife? Get real! If you had your choice, your bottle or your wife, which would you choose? That IS the choice you have to make here. Pick her over everything else or quit pretending it matters.

I wish I had him here right now...

I'm in a thrashin' mood tonight...

Did I just make it worse?

Mark