I walked into the lounge this morning to dress DD as she had joined WH on the sofa bed to watch cartoons.

He opened his eyes and smiled at me like I was a part of his amazing dream. It was the way that he used to look at me.

I didn't buy in to it, he was sleepy afterall.

We dressed kids and I was ready to leave and he asked if I would take him in to the city. I agreed.

He chatted about the rehearsal, almost sounded legit and about band things and gigs and payment for gigs and OW. Very light, work related stuff only and I did not delve in.

He mentioned the gigs he is doing this weekend and said he is going to see one of his band members at the Casino on Sunday, has been promising to go to her gig for months and he will this weekend. He asked me to come to. I agreed after a bit, but i am confused. Isn't that the day he is moving out?

I said the daycare is ok, not closing. It was one of the ABC centres. I said I was pleased that we didn't need to give the kids one more major change this year and he said that changing cars was probably werding them out. he ws joking, but didn't mention our big change.

He said the IC called him yesterday to arrange a session and he said he wanted to talk to me. He wants us both to "get help" and not spend the money just for him, he doesn't want to spend the same money as just now for just him. He also said that no one can push him to do anything he doesn't want to do, including me. I told him that it couldn't hurt to try her out for a session. He hasn't got anyone good over the last 8 years so where's the harm. She could be the one.

I told him I would arrange my own IC. But he is very worried about the money for us to both be doing it. I guess he is still planning to move out?

He stood looking at the car as I drove off this morning. Told me to have a great day and night - forum tonight. I am so tired that I might go home without going, but I don't know yet.

He called me this morning and asked if I changed the picture on his phone. I said no, said it might be DD, but must have been careless last night. Oops.

Advice please?

You did great!

I can see you were doing a good job of stepping back and not reacting today. And it went pretty well.

Don't react if he comes back in a poor mood after rehearsal/gig.

Remember your new mantra "I'm sorry you feel that way." LOL , if he gets verbal with you.

I will be busy with Thanksgiving stuff and won't have a chance to check on you much, but I will when I can.

I am taking 20 credits at College this quarter, and working a work study job and I have a lot of studying and not much time as I have MASSIVE homework.

But I will check in when I can and I will have more time in December, school's out, yea!!!!

Just take one day at a time, you are doing great today, and relax, because you can't do anything about what your WH chooses, you can only choose what is healthy for you and kids.

Focus on stepping back and not reacting, and being a good mom for your kids.

Hopefully others will chime in and give their views.

God Bless!!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hey and it as a good thing that your WH is getting some counseling, hopefully this one is a good one. Hope he will follow through.

Thanks Miss M for finding the time to help me out. I admire your dedication to your family and your studies and you must be a great organiser!!!

I am still going ok. I dropped him into the city again yesterday and today. He does try to bring up OW and I stay calm and mutter very little. Usually stop myself after saying that I have a point of view, yes.

He was asleep when I got home last night but I went into the kitchen for some food (hadn't slept well night before and I think it could have been hunger). He didn't talk much, and that was ok. Everytime I went to leave he'd mutter something else. I got the feeling he wanted me to stay, so I left him with that feeling.

Off to bed and I slept so well

This morning he brought up OW and I said that HE is making it about her, not me. I hadn't mentioned it at all. Anyway, his boss was there so he asked me in to meet him as I am putting a proposal together for him. I was charming and funny and WH kissed me on the lips as I left in front of them all.

I guess it could all be an act, but it's a long way from someone who told me that everyone he works with knows I am a mad women who's intent on making his life hell.

He said he was confused that I stopped asking him to leave. I said I just stopped pushing him.

I am firmly in plan A unless I am advised to do otherwise from here. I haven't spoken to Steve yet. Still nervous and confused.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

You are doing really well.

Good that you don't respond to talk about OW. Remember, do NOT trash OW. It will only make him defend her and make you look bad.

If he brings up leaving again, just tell him that you can't make him do anything, he is responsible for his own choices.

I really am unsure about whether you should go to plan B at this time.

I really hope some people chime in here. I know KaylaAndy wants to see him out now. I don't blame her. Your WS has been pretty mean.

I am concerned that you have not done a stellar plan A until the past few days. You want that plan B to happen when you have been meeting some of his EN's and leave him on his own for OW to fulfill those needs. Also you want him to go without his 'fix' for you.

I think Harley's will have a better understanding of whether your WS has mental health issues that need to be dealt with before any major work can be done on your M. Not my call to make.

I am glad to see you are changing the dynamics of this relationship. You are working on you!!!! Awesome.

It sounds like you have made a commitment to get a counseling session in with the Harley's. I am so proud of you!!!! This is great because this is PROFESSIONAL counseling. Much better than hearing from Miss M!!!LOL!!!

You did a great job today. Keep it up. Remember, step back and don't react. If you don't react and only act in a healthy manner, it pretty much puts everything on your WS.

I will tell you once more, you are WORTHY, and I am so happy to see you making healthy decisions and not dancing that angry, reactive dance with your WS.

I sure hope others respond to you 2much.

It is Thanksgiving however, and if you will be patient, I am sure you will get more responses.

Hang in there! You are doing much better. I am glad you slept well. Make sure to eat!

Okay, I am off to fix the GRAVY for the turkey, YUMMMMMM!! Dinner soon!!!!

Best wishes,

Love in Christ,
Miss M

I wish we celebrated thanksgiving too! you're dinner sounds so yummy Miss M.

I happily remembered when reading your post that I didn't say anything negative about OW. He told me I was making this about her and I said it didn't have anything to do with her. I am so happy that I didn't say anything bad about her. Phew.

I really feel much happier by not reacting. From my forum stuff I have learned that if I expect to be hurt by him, that's what I get. But, if I step back and just let him be who he is, it actually doesn't do anything to me. I make that stuff up and it's hurtful, but it's my interpretation.

He cleaned the house last night and helped with the kids this morning and gave me some positive advice about my work. I will take the good and ignore the bad.

I need to excel at the Plan A whether it's for another few days or a month. I cannot control him, only me.

Thank you and HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

you are doing good!

Step back, don't react. :crosseyedcrazy: :twobyfour:

If he is negative, remember what you are supposed to say and if it is too much just say that you need take a little walk, and do it.

Bite the tongue girl, you are doing much better.

Be diligent. Not one LB this day, and then the next.

Baby steps, one day at a time. Change YOU. Decide your boundaries and stick with them.

Love in Christ,
Miss M
:pumkin: :gobblegobble: Thanksgiving was great. You can have Thanksgiving too, every morning! When you wake up everyday, just thank God for all the blessings you have, and focus on the good things first!

You're an angel Miss M. I will do my thanksgiving a lot more diligently!

This morning he did say to me that he dropped the phone calls with OW and has really tried to make it a friendship and didn't understand why I was still making it about the OW. I said I thought he had made a really big change but didn't really pursue his line of thought.

It's interesting though that he is considering the good things he is doing for the M. If he didn't care about the M and wanted to be with OW, why would he mention it. He is around the house all nights unless he is working or at rehearsal and is not on the phone or texting madly or doing anything wrong on the internet. Maybe he is trying in his own way?

He called me just now for advice on a new microphone he wants to buy. Weird, wouldn't he call the OW who is a muso for her opinion? Looks like I just fulfilled an EN

Love you Miss M. Enjoy the leftovers!

Don't worry about WS or wonder why or how or what he is doing, you just keep doing what you are doing, and don't respond to any talk about ow.

Tell him it's his decision, and then be wise as a snake and innocent as a dove, if you know what I mean? (read previous posts, go back and re read posts)

You are doing AWESOME.

See how much better you feel? You just go about making a good life for yourself and kids, and be your sweet self.

This has been going on too long for you to let it define you anymore. You ARE a good person, and you know what? It is starting to show!

Toooo much tuuuurkeeeey, must sleeeeep.

God Bless!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

What great advise you're already getting.





I think your WH is capitulating back and forth to force your hand. He doesn't know what to do with your plan A approach. He wants you to get tired of his bags being packed and either BEG him to stay or KICK him out.

He is still playing games in an effort to make YOU be the bad guy so he doesn't feel guilty.

He wants YOU to take the blame for kicking him out. Or be a doormat if YOU beg him to stay.

He is still a wacked out wayward, an alien and a liar.
I consider what he is doing, abuse. So does Dr. Harley.


When you are ready.....
A simple loving statement of..... I love you WH, but it's time for me to move on. If you want to stay, then stay, if you are leaving, please go. But I have made my decision to move forward. It's your decision whether you join me or not.

I would have some boundaries ready if he stays.
I would have a Plan B letter and intermediary ready if he goes.

Kayla definitely wants him out - but strategically and calmly.

Notice that he has enough control over his emotions to be nice in front of other people. But when he's feeling off balance he needs you more off balance for him to feel better

Right now, you haven't begged him to stay in how long??? He pulled out some big guns a couple days ago, spewed hate all over and forced an emotional break down out of you. But he didn't get the begging. So he didn't get his fix. Now he knows he's gone too far with the cruelty. So he's got it under control for now. But his brain is working on getting the begging out of you, have no doubt.

Please please notice - his brand of cake eating is frosted with "begging him to stay". Please don't frost his cake!

The next incident of cruelty, (and it will come, he hasn't changed yet), calmly pick up his suitcase and walk to the door - set it on the porch, then stand on the inside of the house, holding the door and tell him with a soft voice, "You are free to leave, and you are not welcome here, until you treat me nice ALL THE TIME, and never spew that kind of crap in my home, or behind my back again!" If he doesn't move, ask him, still in a soft voice, but firmly "ARE WE CLEAR?"

Then go back to your business, and ignore King Baby.

Miss M - the reason I want him out is because this is a mental/behavioral issue that must be fixed before the marriage can begin repairs! He needs to not have access to 2M2L for a release of his inner pain - he has to FEEL that pain for himself. He needs to face it and deal with it, or their marriage will always be built on eggshells -fragile and ready to crumble at the next angry outburst.

Ever wonder about the question my husband asked about which lovebuster hurt the worst? (my signature line)

It wasn't until he asked that question that our marriage had any hope of recovering. He was no longer blaming ME for his pain. He was ready to focus on facing HIS part in our marital problems. Until 2M2L WS can ask that kind of question and walk through the door to his own recovery, their marriage has no hope.

I was going to reply to you all but here's the short version.

He's gone. Packed everything and left tonight.

I'm so sad and trying to write the plan B letter. He has already started with the SMS messages and I need to get into a place of power.

He asked me to go to Singapore last night for New Years Eve as a family but said that he wasn't sure yet how he felt.

Longer story but I spoke to OW last night when he was at her house with her parents. I told her I was sorry to accuse her of an affair and that I hoped she would never have to feel the pain of this in her life and future relationships. After that, she didn't want to go out with him last night so he took it out on me on the phone and came home after 3am.

I wasn't here today a lot but plan A'd as much as possible. He said to me last night that he doesn't get it, that there must be something he's missing because I am being so nice and can't do anything wrong lately. He was so wary of me and made so much up about it. He told me he would know sooner or later if I had really changed or not. And, the trip to Singapore is off.

He was leaving for work and decided to go tomorrow but drove back for his bags tonight. I told him I loved him and wanted to make it work but appreciated his choice to leave. He told me I forced him and I said no, I want to work on our M. I don't believe in D.

He threw his ring at me and told me I had no choice. After the D he would not even be friends with me, I've ruined it etc.

I said I don't do D, only M and would not be friends then anyway.

I wanted to cry so badly so I grabbed the kids and went to my parents for an hour.

He was gone when we got home and I am so sad.

His messages said to tell the kids he loves them and not twist it to them but told me I was deceitful and a liar so he wouldn't put it past me. He told me I hae become a liar and a hurter and he won't let me do it to him any longer. This is all my doing.

I wrote "I told the kids that you love them very much. I will never say anything to hurt you to them. They love you so much too."

He said I would as I'm a b1tch and a liar and I know it.

Then, he's not going to give me every cent he earns anymore. He's not going to stay at the backpackers ever again. He's worth more and needs somewhere for the kids to visit. Me and my family will not throw him our with nothing again.



I didn't respond to the last messages. He knows I will not accept that behaviour and language etc.

I am trying to finish the plan B letter so I can email it to him tonight. I will post it soon but not email it until someone has checked if for me...please.

This all feels so wrong.

---------edited to add----------

He just sms'd me a photo of his stage tonight and told me that he's performing with Billy Joel and Ricky Lee Coulter. He had invited me tonight but took that back today. I haven't responded, but I'm not in plan B yet so wonder what I should do.

Those that know me know I am not very strong and get sucked back in very easily.

His work shirt is here with his clean laundry so maybe he is planning to see the kids tomorrow? In that case, perhaps I should deliver the letter to him that way instead of email?

Actually, I could still email it and just leave him a copy here too as we will not be here tomorrow anyway.

Here it is, please be ruthless with me. I hadn't planned anything so jumped on the plan B page and cut and pasted as fast as possible.

Dear WH,

I don’t really know where to start as this is the hardest letter I have ever had to write. I have written this letter from a place of true love. Please read every word I have written and be present.

I would like to acknowledge and apologise for my part in the breakdown of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed so many times. I'm sure this helped create a void in our marriage that allowed your other friendships to happen. I won’t go into it all again as I couldn’t word it any better than my forum letter to you.

I want us to build a life together that is built on meeting each others basic emotional needs and to avoid the things that got us to the place we now find ourselves. I know I have hurt you in the past and I never want to make you feel that way again. We cannot begin to rebuild our marriage until you end all relationships and emotional commitments which require you to maintain a secret second life that takes away from our relationship, for once and for all. I love you WH, I want you to be my husband, forever.

In the past I have endured the hurt and pain when I don't know where you are, or when you'll be home or the way we argue so hurtfully with each other. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect. Therefore in order to protect my feelings for you I can no longer see you under the current conditions.

I now see that it is draining my love for you. Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I cannot have any communication with you, except regarding the children and finances, and I will avoid seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there will be nothing left.

I will still need your help financially in meeting all of our current obligations such as the mortgage and childcare fees. My earnings do not cover our commitments and we need to work out a way to cover them between us until I can rent out the house in January, which is what I will need to do to keep our heads above water financially.

To this end, I agree that it is best that you find another place to stay, while I stay in our home and continue be the primary care provider for our children. I do not wish for your relationship with the children to suffer any further and I will be as flexible as possible with visitation of the children, but I must ask that you not have contact with me during pick up and drop off times. I would also like any communications between us to be handled through a mutual friend or relative who you are happy with. (I might suggest L or T). I will no longer take your calls or read any SMS messages or emails that you send.

The children are home each night by 5:30pm and bedtime is around 7pm. I would like to suggest that you can call them during this time and DD will answer to speak with you.

I hope that you will understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my love for you and any chance of reconciliation in the future. I ask that you please respect my decision to separate in this way. You must know the pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW. I feel my love for you slipping away.

I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good, and see the hope. I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this.

I have tried the best way that I know how to express my love for you and my desire to have you in my life as my husband again. I don’t know what else to say. I could hold on, make myself a nuisance of myself but I love you too much to cause you anymore pain than I already have. I just really needed you to know how much I still love you and how sorry I am for all the mistakes that I made. They say that we should learn from our mistakes, and I know that’s true but I just wish the lesson didn’t cost so much.

When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future.

God be with you, my love. I am dedicated to make our marriage a place you will really want to be.

Your loving wife,
2M2L

Agreed, tried really hard. I think his virus software picked up eblaster. It told me it's been removed and he's changed his email password too.

Bummer.

Thanks tst. I think you are spot on. It matches the stuff that was coming out of his mouth last night and today. Plan A has had an impact or he wouldn't be asking me out places or planning trips.

The alien took back the offer, but he did offer, which was different from the babble.

Thank you! I hope I plan A's enough before this forced plan B.

I would love your suggestions on boundaries too please.

You are so right. He was mad at me for calling him when he was at OW's house and they saw him fire up. He said that I pushed him, but I didn't do anything. A wife is allowed to call her husband, and he said I could. I think the mixture of OW seeing him get mad at me on the phone and me talking to her has taken a chink out of the shiny fantasy.

I wish I had read this earlier in the day. When he was mean to me this morning I could have walked the bags out. Instead, he kept up his act and I just ignored it instead of really reinforcing my boundaries. Too late now, he's gone!

This makes so much sense and I know that even though I feel so sad that he's gone, this is the only chance to really get the marriage I deserve.

I loved reading this - I did always wonder about your sig line. My WH is so intent on blaming me that he hasn't even gotten close to meeting any EN's for me yet and doesn't know his LB's either.

He has been heavily sharing with me about his work and bands and even the text tonight about the show so I think he WILL miss me during plan B.

It's making me think I should send a sweet text to him about the show tonight message so that he knows my plan A. Yep, I'll do it. No need to avoid him until Plan B.

Wow - so many posts - I have to type to not go crazy and sad...

I sent "Awesome set up, looks like the Savage Garden stage. Wish I was there to get it on video for you. Have a great night and enjoy bumping in to the stars"

Wait for it...

He sent "I wish you were here too. Couldn't even if I wanted to. The security is like ridiculous. Every name is on a list"

:MrEEk:

Yikes, I forgot to mention that he told me he was going out but came home and had tea with us first and stayed until 10pm before he left.

Today he mowed the grass, poisoned the weeds, vacuumed the house and cleaned the kitchen and lounge.

Looks like someone who was staying, not leaving.

I think he wanted/wants me to beg him to stay. But now that he's left with his things, he'll go regardless to make me the bad guy.

Even his texts tonight have been geared towards him getting me to beg for something re money or defending my behaviour.

Oh, and because he is a huge cake eater, and LOVES the plan A 2M2L, I am willing to bet that he will be back tonight. He hasn't made any plans for moving out and will need another day or two to get organised.

BUT, I will request that we do not speak to each other in a hurful way, no swearing and no putting each other down. I will promise the same to him.

I have been pretty good lately but said one or two LB's today. It's hard when the venom is being spat at you. BUT I know it's no excuse and it just what he wants. I immediately pulled back and thought first after it had escaped my lips so that's a massive improvement for me. I didn't keep on about things either.

Plan A still on and active.

Advice for Plan B letter and process requested!

In scanning through your Plan B letter, you do not have an intermediary. For his brand of cheating and lovebusting, YOU MUST HAVE AN INTERMEDIARY. It's not optional in your situation. You will lose what little love you have left, if this door is left open even a crack to contact you directly. You need someone who will filter out his cruelty.

Use a friend from Landmark if there isn't someone closer to you.

Please listen to KA.



Please DO NOT write and set up this plan B "in haste or panic". Take some time to be still today and ask yourself if you have done everything you need to do to prevent WH from being able to have ANY contact with you. Then take meaningful action.

You MUST NOT have any contact with WH for plan B to work effectively.

You will be OK!

Thanks KA and TST.

Would someone like my brother-in-law be ok?

He is completely tired of the crap and doesn't want to be involved, BUT, wants the best for our kids at all times. He would be a great filter for me, but hopefully the best one for WH too.

He is also the only person on the planet that WH will not get away with being nasty too. He's an older brother by 10 years and doesn't put up with the bullsh1t of WH.

I don't really want to subject my family to his venom or my friends for that matter. My Landmark friends might be ok, but I'd rather not have someone who could waiver.

Mutual friend was always my first choice, but as he is WH's boss in Band#1, it could backfire as WH wants me not to involve his work. I don't want him to call my boss...

Should I also put IC and/or anger management in the conditions to return?

Thanks ever so much. I'm heading off to bed shortly and am sure he'll be back tonight for his sleepover!

Thanks for the advice not to rush. Another day or two of plan A is not going to hurt. I am getting better every day.