I hope the 5 star rating on this thread is for an example of what not to do in Plan B!

2Much

I think you're ignoring the elephant in the living room.

Your Plan B needs to address his mood swings - his "I HATE YOU" "I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU" jerkaround!

This behavior is more vile than the OW at the moment. Because even if he quit the band and came home, he's still the same jerk that loves you and treats you kindly for a minute, and then the rest of 23 hours and 59 minutes he's either sleeping or cruel.

This NEEDS to be a part of your Plan B letter - his treatment of you MUST CHANGE. You must demonstrate that you cannot tolerate being treated like you have been.

Be careful about settling for a faithful abuser with no other outlet but you to beat on!

I'm writing a new thread that I'll be posting some time in the next few days that I hope you will read and consider once I get it finished.

Thanks KaylaAndy, you're right!

Have you got a suggested paragraph to add to my letter?

Any and all adivice is appreciated.

I mean business and I am facing the elephant!

I would NOT say much of anything about OW in this letter - he already knows your feelings. He doesn't care.

"I have come to face the fact that I can't live without peace in my life. I need to feel safe in the love you have for me. I love you, but what we have together is not love.

"I crave being respected, loved and protected by my husband. Not just for a fleeting moment, but ALWAYS. That protection needs to be from the heart break of angry outbursts, threats of infidelity and abandonment! I need a husband who can protect me from these things. And right now, you can't or won't be that husband.

"No ring can cover the violence of removing my safe place last week (doorlocks, etc.) and the disrespect and contempt I have experienced at the simple request I made to leave me alone until you can end ALL contact with OW and since she wasn't the first time your heart strayed, take extraordinary precautions to prevent infidelity again, I must take on that responsibility for protection and remain out of contact with you.

"This weekend has shown me clearly that OW is just one symptom of the greater disrespect shown me in many areas of our marriage. And until we can begin a true recovery from the cruelty and disrespect for me being clearly addressed with a plan for change, I am returning to my requirement that you make arrangements for visitation thru ******* and have no direct contact with me.

"I cannot control you, but I choose now to take control of MY life. And right now that life needs to be away from you.

"I love you, and hope that we can recover. Please let my intermediary know when you have a plan for our marriage that does not include ANY contact with OW, or license to pour out wrath on me as has been too frequent in our marriage.

"Love, 2M2L"

Wow, KA, that was amazing.

Amen to everything KA said.

This is what needs to be said.

The OW is only a pawn in all of this. He is using her, just like he is using you. He does not truly care about either one of you - if he did he would stop this bull crap. All he wants to know is what can the two of you do for him today. You are always there for SF. And she is there to listen to him. I would be willing to bet that she does very little talking - she just sits there and listens to him go on and on and on. That is what she can do for him. If she stops lsitening to him - he will find OW#4.

Doesn't it bother you to know that this man in his forties is spending so much time with a 19 year old girl? If this had all been happening just 2 short years ago, she would have been 17, and your WH could be looking at possible jail time. How do you justify that for him?

I hate to be harsh - but I have spent so much time with you, and I feel like it may have been wasted time. You say you hate his behavior, and you no longer want to be a doormat, but I don't believe you anymore. You caved in and gave him SF just because he gave you a ring! :RollieEyes:

Now you have written another plan B letter, and you want to personally hand it to him this time. you know what I think this is all about? you want to hand it to him in the hopes that he will read it, and then loo at you with tears in his eyes and say "you are right! You are 100% right! Please, take me home my love!" but what you need to understand is that this mans issues are so deep, he is going to need months of counseling to learn how to control his abusive behavior. This whole thing can not possibly improve in a day, a week, 1 month. He can not be "cured". He needs to be taught to treat people better. And if he gets frustrated with it all - he will quit and tell you that it is all your fault. He will take the easy out.

I agree with Kayla --

But I would also add that YOU want to address YOUR behaviors too. You also have a role in this dance. And when its time to change the dance, BOTH partners must commit to change it.

He has some unacceptable behaviors. So do you.
You can be equally toxic to him.

agree with Lexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy

I'm on a roll! Weeeeee PEP!

agree with Lexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy

Hi everyone,

KaylaAndy, I too love your letter and it is exactly what needs to be said. I will have the letter ready for my sister to hand WH at swimming tomorrow.

I lost the last 2 posts that I wrote so I will try my best to cover it all again.

I was unable to get onto the forum last night and the server appeared to be down.

I have a lovely victory to report for Plan B.

I did see him briefly in person yesterday. I know WOF that you think I was hoping for more from him, but I truly wanted him to see that I was behind the letter, not the evil version of me that he thinks is trying to hurt him. I had a chance to ask him to respect my wishes not to see or text or email or call me until he could meet the conditions of the letter.

He told me that he loves me and wants to work on the marriage but needs time to be on his own, without his friends, so that he can learn to be a better H and then come back to a happy home. He does not want to come back to an unhappy home and is still so mad at me for being angry and demanding and unreasonable and exposing and needs to calm down and come home a better man for me.

My responses were not detailed. I just maintained the lines from the original letter that I would commit to being an amazing wife and have an amazing marriage and I am protecting my love and my heart by asking for space until he can give up OW and commit to our marriage.

He said it would be hard. He really wants to see me. I said no. He said he would see me at swimming, I said no, I would ask my sister to do it. He said he would come and see the kids at the house, I said no, he would need to make alternative arrangements and must do that through IM. He asked me to at least talk when the kids were on the phone with him so that he could hear my voice, I said no, he knew I was with them. He asked about New Years Eve and Christmas with me and the kids, I said no, not like this. It would not be together. He said what if I don’t want him back when he’s ready, I said I love him and that’s why he has to respect my wishes now. He said what if I text you but you don’t have to text me back, I said no, no contact at all except through IM.

He said he is living at his dad’s and is lonely. He said he is committed to his new job and wants to knuckle down for his family. It's his first full time job and he really is trying hard. Since I have known him he has not had a full time job so this is huge.

As for socialising with younger women, it's the nature of his work. Groupies are always 18-25 and the singers and dancers are often young and beautiful. I still want to believe it was never sexual with OW. I never had that feeling and did have a PA earlier in our M and it was different to this friendship. Not justifying it, just giving an opinion.

It was the hardest conversation to have. I could tell by the look in his eyes that he knew I was serious. He did call to speak to the kids last night at dinner which was ok and they called him this morning. I didn’t speak with him.

It’s going to be a tough road, but I am deeper and darker than ever. I did leave swimming up to chance last week and thankfully he didn’t turn up, but tomorrow I have asked my sister to take the kids for me instead. Now that I know he’s been relying on seeing me and hearing my voice, I know how deep and dark I must go.

He did tell me that he wants to see a psychologist and suggested I should too and asked me to do MC with him. I said I would consider doing my own IC but I would not do MC until he was ready to commit to the M. I think he wanted MC so that he could continue to see me.

I agree that I have become a toxic person too, and Plan B is an excellent detox opportunity for us both. I will look into IC now too.

So, I hope I have in some small way made you all proud. I love and respect each of you for your time and your opinions and I know that a very dark Plan B is the best and only chance to put us both in the right place. Thank you for your continued efforts with me. I know it must feel like I don’t listen sometimes, but it is all getting in there, I just need to believe in myself more and become responsible for my own actions and stop being the victim. I choose to do that from now!

Hello 2M2L, I hope you're feeling OK today. If I were you, I would try to forget about reconstructing your M for the moment and try to reconstruct yourself first. The only way to do that is to get out of his zone of influence for as long as it takes, regardless of how long it takes for him to be 'ready' to commit. I think it's you who should decide on the timing, not him. That's why I'd do a Plan B: for you, not for him or for your M. I don't know enough about your situation to advise you on the practicalities but would it be possible to live with someone who cares for you (a sister, or parent or friend?) either by asking them to move in with you and the children or else you moving in with them. Small children are wonderful but they are also very demanding and draining. If you had a teeny bit of help it might help you find the space to see things more clearly.

YOU GO GIRL!!!!! I am so very proud of you but most importantly you should be proud of yourself and the respect you showed yourself by providing this boundary.

Very Dark is going to be very good, I can hear it. Even my H didn't beg to see me in anyway shape or form, nor has he tried to come into contact with me. Stay dark. Give the plan time to work.

When my H calls the kids I make sure I am silent so he can't even hear my voice. LOL Sorry not meeting any needs!

I know its hard for all of us, and one day your okay, the next your crying, the next your angry and it starts all over again, but I can say as I approach my 1 month in Plan B on Saturday that my resolve to stay dark is getting stronger but I still have days of pain. I hear it doesn't change much in recovery so I guess this is our practice run. LOL

Anyways you did awesome! Now stand your ground, no more breaks in PB.

Thanks Tully!!! Yes, small children are very draining and I am trying to use my family a lot more for support. They will stay occasionally and also help me fill in the weekends so that will be a huge help.

As for me, I feel confident today that I have done the right thing. I needed to do it in person because as Big Kahuna says, WH thinks he can get one over me in person and I needed to set that boundary firmly.

Plan B is definately for me this time. I haven't had one complete day of silence from WH since I started Plan B so it starts today! I WILL NOT read any messages from him or check up on him anymore. I plan to read my self help books and get stronger and have lots of fun.

Christmas planning sucks. I know you are going through the same feelings too. I was happy to tell WH that it would not be together - I am sure he thought it would be an exception.

Thanks for checking in on me. I hope you are staying strong!

Thanls T2L. I was writing to you at the same time! It sucks to be doing this at all and I know the rollercoaster of emotions only too well. Having to go back into plan B was horrible. So much of the old me wanted to accept the scraps of attention and make good!

I'm stronger an taking your leadon not meeting any of his needs.

No more breaks in Plan B!!!!

Great job, 2M2L!! I'm glad that you are going darker and going to focus on yourself in this process. You are doing your kids an incredible favor to show them that you can be strong and stand up to his behavior!
Consider looking at Christmas season as a chance to really celebrate the season with your kids. Start some traditions that you can continue for years to come (walking in the woods to collect greenery, reading all the holiday classics, making your holiday decorations, etc). I know that having holiday planning to do (which I always did the bulk of anyway) has really helped my kids and me.
I'll be thinking about you!

BF439

Thanks BF! I am really determined not to break this time. I will call the police before I face him again without him meeting the conditions of the new letter!

We are discussing getting a hotel room in the city to really shake it up this year. There will only be my parents and my sister and me and the kids so it will be exceptionally quiet. We need to do something different!

Looking forward to the new fun we create!

HELLO MELODY LANE......

Missing you ML! I am so sorry for disappointing you and I hope you will join me again to help me through this.

You are a very big reason that I am going deeper and darker. I couldn't have done it without you!

I hope you are well!

I don't want to disappoint you again!!!!

I dont want to keep making a big deal about this, but I feel like I just have to make one more comment about this. Sorry to be such a nag!!

I think you are too quick to excuse this. Just because there happens to be a lot of young women there - does not mean that he should be socializing with one of them on an individual basis. I work with a guy who is in his twenties. I would never dream of chatting with him on his cell phone. Becuase I am married, and also becuase he is too young.

i have a son who is 18. If he were to start having private mobile phone converstaions with a 38 year old woman I would be disgusted and I would tell her to leave my son alone.

There are two HUGE red flags in this R that your WH has with this girl.
1. he is married
2. She is 20 years younger than him

He is the adult. He knows better. She should be pursueing relationships with young, single men, who do not have children yet. The time and effort that she puts into this R with your wh is taking away from her own growth. She is too young to really understand that. Your WH should be able to see that, and leave her alone.

By your theory - that socialising with young girls is just the nature of his work - that would mean it is ok for a high school teacher to socialize with his students. After all, he is surround by younger girls every day - it is the anture of his wokr. But 99% of all hgih school teachers do NOT socialize with their sutdents. Why? because it is not appropriate for a 38 year old man to carry on a private relationship with a 19 year old girl.

I just want to point that out, because I think you are excusing it as just one of the perks of being in the band. But your WH has crossed a line that should not be crossed.

I absolutely agree with you!

He actually said over the weekend that he agrees that time spent as a total band is ok, but not one on one. Finally some light. He also said that it was an inappropriate friendship borne by the extra assistance he offered her as a producer, manager and website designer. I get that he might have had good intentions to start, but he gets that he took it too far and it was wrong.

He is completely pulling back from the friendship and said it will not happen with her or anyone again, but needs time to fix it for good. (Band is new etc, might take a month or two)

I will not be married to a man who cannot set boundaries with woman, especially according to and also regardless of their age. If he is married to me, he is not to have a one-on-one time exclusive relationship with another female. Period.

From what I have heard about older men and younger women, it is the attraction of completely blind sided adoration and inability to really have their own opinion. They are easily impressed and easily led.