Nowisthemoment,

This is my first posting to this board.

It sounds like your husband may be a classic "Nice Guy."

Do a search on Robert Glover and his book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Consider getting it and reading it with your husband. It may be a transformative experience for you both. I can state that it has been very helpful for me.

Best wishes,

FreeLiving

Update:

I wrote the above after reading the first 5 and last 5 pages of the thread, and missed that the book apparently had the same effect on your H as it did on me. I hope you both can work on yourselves and find the love you both deserve. Best of luck.

BCB,

Believe me it is my pleasure if anything I have said is of help to you.

God Bless,

JL

Nowis,

Just remember that these triads also apply to you, and you should apply them to yourself. As you start to see the humor in your own actions, those of your children and H, you will see blessing that you receive and you give. You will see opportunities for you, your family and your H.

This is not just about what you can do for your H, it is about what you can do for yourself and your children as well. You all are all woven together and sometimes we don't see the beauty of the pattern. It is there, and YOU are part of that beauty. Your H has seen it in you.

God Bless,

JL

FreeLiving

You're perceptive. Yes, he is a 'Nice Guy' so he tells me. He read the book and is still reading it. He realized a lot about himself and this sent him into a tailspin. He's now working on himself as a result.

JL

Respect, affection, humor.

Those three words, in particular, that you shared have totally summed it up for me. These last two days it has been all I have thought about. I see myself and my issues with my H. I can own them whereas before I just went round and round in my head trying to figure out what was wrong.

You are right about the not WORKING at it too. I am cleansing (fasting) right now and I think it's helped with my focus. My tendency is to formulate and plan and fix it. If I'm not doing that, I come undone and am in an inner turmoil. This week I have just been able to sit and mull. Sit with the feelings and thoughts, no anxiety, no struggle and let things move around.

I am being honest with myself and writing down what happens in those areas of respect, affection and humor that I have held against my H for so long. I'm feeling shame, resentment, anger and sadness about the specific areas. I'm shaking my head - 43 years old and I'm only just figuring it out.

My H comes back today for a couple of days before he goes away again. I don't want him to come home yet.

When I've finished with it, can I write it all down and can you help me with it?

BCB


I know - so simple and yet as sharp as a knife to me.

Mexico and Hawaii. This is going to be an amazing time for you not only in what you do but how it will change who you are. Please keep in touch when you can. How are things with my W now? You were dating at one point. Did you go to Plan B.

You have been such an inspiration to me BCB and the best cheerleader! Thank you SO much.

Nowis,

I don't know if I can help but I will certainly try. So send what you have and let's have a look at it. Enjoy your H while he is home.

God Bless,

JL

JL

I am up obscenely early as I cannot sleep. My H, on the other hand is jet lagged so sleeping lots. I will try to be as concise as I can. I am also shockingly aware that the drips that have built up inside of me for 23 years caused this flood. I take equal responsibility for relationship being the way it has been.

This is what I find so far:

Respect:

In the areas of:

Money

At some crucial times in our relationship, my H has exhibited tightfistedness with money. When we were dating it didn't show up much as we were both finishing college and starting our lives together as working adults. However, when we got engaged he was reluctant to buy me a ring. We looked at them but I felt so bad because I knew he didn't want to spend very much money. He just went sort of quiet and then bought me a ring reluctantly worrying about the cost (of which was very small). There were many financial options but the whole thing made me feel like I was not worth it. I couldn't figure it out. I did not want him to worry about the money (we were and have been our whole marriage debt free - apart from the mortgage payment). There was no joy in this process. I just internalized it and told myself he knows better. However, I lost respect.

Important decisions over the years have been influenced by his 'wonky' thinking about money. We have bought a cheaper house, in the wrong school area because he didn't want to pay more. We then had to sell it because it was clearly not right and in the process lost thousands of dollars.

I can cite many instances but don't want to. Now get this. He has a big heart for us and has got better over the years. I have said no to cheap and said we'll get what's right and good quality. If that's inexpensive, great, if not we'll wait and get the right thing. I generally had taken the back seat traditional role and let my H deal with the finances. These last few years, I have got more involved so I can tell him not to worry and shoulder any responsibilities. I can also show up and say no. I have worked on and off over the years for my interest and sanity. I have not needed too and my H always wanted me to be a SAHM. I am lucky to have had the choice.

I am grateful for my life. We live very well. Our children want for nothing. However, this has caused me to lose a lot of respect for him. He couldn't see past his thinking and I just felt he wasn't mature and 'man' enough. It is not so much the numbers JL or the situations, it is how it made me feel towards him over the years. I was wrong, I didn't say anything until recently.

I know where his thinking has come from, his mother. She was super tight so my H learned well. However, it affected me deeply.

Friendships and family:

Friendships are super important to me. Family is too but it's difficult. My H has maybe 1 or 2 friends and has done over the 23yrs I've known him. He checks out of relationships. Now this has worked in my favor, I will be blatantly honest. We have moved around a lot in our marriage with his work. So, when he was home I could get his full attention. He was with me 100% when I was lonely and didn't have any new friends yet. When the children were born he would always try to be there to help me. However, he would then just want me. I wanted a vibrant life. I enjoy going to new places and meeting new people, but my H just wanted me. I wanted him to get a life to add another dimension to our lives. His family are great but he didn't communicate with them much at all. This was not the kind of guy I wanted. He was too needy of me, which seemed weak to me. He was successful in his work but didn't solidify any friendships. It was sad to me. I didn't say anything.

I understand why. He moved around a lot with his family too when he was younger and found it difficult to make friends. However, he is sociable but doesn't make the effort much to keep friends, until, in recent years when I have told him to get a life and go do things HE likes. He is not a man's man and doesn't do the typical things (sorry if I'm stereotyping here); team sports, watching games, socializing etc. There's nothing wrong with that, I know, but I wonder about my H.

Conflict avoider

In the first year of our marriage we had a couple of fights. I don't even remember what about. I think that if we had slugged it out and been honest, we would not have been where we were today - perhaps not even married to each other. My H was bought up to keep the peace at all costs, to his detriment. I felt that when he would go silent on me, I was in the wrong and a bad person, so I would go back to working on my horrible self (or so I thought of myself). He says now that he should have said what he has truly felt over the years but has always backed down and not been honest. I wanted honest, screaming match and all, but we never did. You got get someones true feelings if they are not willing to be honest. I didn't respect that. I wanted someone to stand up for themselves.

Immature behaviors

These are a little embarrassing and I can't write them down. Suffice to say, one yucky habit that he had only stopped 2 years ago. Unattractive. I couldn't understand why he would do them and I was baffled why he wouldn't stop if he knew I found them repulsive. However, it was just something else I looked at him and lost respect for him.

Affection:

My H is very affection. I did not use to be until having children. I know this comes from not being hugged and touched much as a child. However, I learned love and hugs through friendships which really saved my life. I learned the difference between a loving hug and a grope from a boyfriend. So I wasn't entirely ignorant.

Sex:

We have struggled our whole married life with sex. I was and for the most part not sexually attracted to my H. I could have sex, be turned on and orgasm but it was a formula. I worked a lot on me, read books, tried different things but still didn't 'want' him. I can't really get to the bottom of this one. Honestly, I have never felt passionate about him. I think it is because I didn't have respect for him from way back? We came together as friends, but romance and him being my lover were never there. We stopped kissing a long time ago because of a couple of bad habits he had that turned me off and the fact he would do nothing about them. Even during sex I do not want to kiss him. Interestingly enough, he has just in the last six months done something about the last of them. But kissing is the least of our issues right now.

General affection:

We are considerate, kind and gentle with one another but not truthful. No harsh words (apart from affair talk). I know I must have been awful to live with over the years. He needs hugs and reassurance when he feels vulnerable, I, on the other hand, become isolated and distant. I check out to regroup and I don't automatically need a hug - I become self sufficient. My children have taught me SO much. I have learned to hug, kiss, squeeze and hold through them. I have watched my H with them and he is so loving too. I have changed over the years and am grateful for that. Although with my H I still have a tendency not to reach out but to check out.

Also, it has just come to me, that I did view his need to be affectionate with me all the time as weak. I felt I was having to shore him up and I wanted a husband that I looked up to but he wasn't that. This is probably entirely wrong thinking and immaturity on my part. He just didn't quite fit my idea of being a 'man'. It was often said in counseling that I was more male than him. So I messed this up.

Humor:

It's just been work our whole married life. We have not learned to laugh through a lot of things. We find a lot of humor in our children which is great. Our youngest just got a cell phone and you should listen to his voicemail recording.... priceless. In general we share humor on some things. Then he can have very immature humor which was attractive to the children at one point but now only the youngest child gets it. I have very dry humor, not slap stick at all. However, this is not the point. It's more so that we have never really laughed at ourselves or our relationship over the years. It has been lacking in humor and lightness.

So they are my thoughts so far. I realize they are my thinking and you cannot really get an accurate picture of my 23 years of being with my H from these few paragraphs. Lots of memories are coming to mind. Lots of emotional memories I have accumulated over the years which have affected me deep inside. To the point that I am where I am in this relationship today. My own immaturity in not dealing effectively with any other the above until monumentally breaking everything apart with my affair.

JL, thank you for reading this, it all seems so ridiculous when I read it but it's not really that simple. I am certain my H could give you a list to compare and even more. This is a start and there's more in there but I can't get it out right now.

Nowis,

lots to say but not a lot of time. Let me start with the money issue, because it often is bigger than people think.

He learned about money from his mother. Was she divorced? I don't recall.

People see money in different ways and you two need to really discuss this. Oddly I think of it in three ways, I seem to be on the 3 thing with you alot.

1. Money is security.
2. Money is power.
3. Money is to spend and spending brings happiness.

Money is really ALL of these things but to most men it is number 1, less 2 or 3. To many women it is 3 and then 2 (see I married well and have power to go with it).

As time goes on the money issues change. Need for saving for college, need to saving for retirement, need to buy things now.

What you don't see and what struck me, was that it appears you both see money as more a 1. He wants to save it for security and a rainy day. You want to save it by buying carefully and looking for value rather than price. If his mother was/is divorced her view of money is security hence the need to carefully watch it.

It seems to me a discussion concerning money, how it is handled, how it is spent, and how it is apportioned would be a good thing. I don't know how you lose respect for a man that is trying to protect you, but you managed to see it as he not loving you enough.

As for him being a "man's man", well as a man I know what you are saying but looks can be deceiving. I am a large man, I played college sports, I still play sports golf mostly. My kids all played sports and two of them played college sports. When I grew up I learned how to shoot guns and hunt. I learned how to fight, I was in the military. Pretty "man's man" wouldn't you say?

But, my passions are: science/math and art. I love poetry and do you know where I learned to appreciate it? From a bunch of combat pilots, who when they had too much to drink would start reciting poetry. My father was one of them. He loved Shakespear as a kid and read it voraciously even as he grew up working in oil fields and was in a fight everyday. My point, what defines a man is not nearly as clear as you might imagine.

My take on this is, how he interacts with his children. How he plays with them, loves them, and tries to protect them. NOW THAT IS A MAN in my book. A boy is a guy that needs to be around his male friends more than those he is committed to. A man is someone who puts his W and children first in his life, period end of story. He doesn't need friends, he has what he wants and makes him happy, his W and his children. In my book that is a man.

I know many of your complaints are very valid. I also see the DJ's as Harley calls them piling up. He is not weak because he is so committed to you, he just values your company more than anyone elses. You on the other had don't value his so much and need other friends, most women need girl friends much more than guys need male friends. That is actually very normal.

As for the SF part, I think the problem is he has you on a pedestal. Even after your affair, he very likely thinks it is his fault and his failure. That feeling will NOT EMBOLDEN a man to make "mad passionate" love to his W. However, these things can be addressed, and they are addressed with honesty, kindness, respect, and love. If you need more, if you need to see his "inner beast" more, then he has to be led to this by you.

It seems to me us men come in two categories. One is group will NOT ever force a woman to do anything, especially using force or having to do with SF. The other group thinks is it is proof that they are men that they do force women either through coersion or physical presence to do as the man wants.

I was reared to be in the first category, I am guessing your H was reared that way as well. What he needs to learn is what you want and need and it might be very specific. He needs to know if it is alright for him to lose control abit. He needs to know what turns you on, it could be a nice dinner, it could be words whatever. Let him know, but guide him, enjoy it, make it part of your life.

You two are bringing issues into this marriage and now at the 23 year mark, you are wondering if it is all worth it. I think that you will find the later years far better than the former, IF you two will talk, and accept that each of you are different and can actually complement one another matching strengths to weaknesses.

I must go, I have more thoughts but I look forward to hearing more from you.

God Bless,

JL

Appreciate you wading through that lot JL.



Spot on. His mother and father were not divorced and were happily married for the most part. He says his mother was very frugal and his father generous but a little clueless.


It's not that he was trying to protect me. It's because he was fearful of not having enough. Or that it was irresponsible to spend. Even to the point that he couldn't relax in his decision making which in turn turned out to be faulty. He is much better these days but I guess I'm just recalling the times where I was hurt (our engagement).


Yes, you are similar to my H and very much like my father-in-law. I honestly do appreciate those qualities but I just like the strong side too. I can relate to it, maybe having 3 brothers like that.

Okay, I can see this. I do appreciate my H for his love of us. Maybe I don't value it enough.

The thing is JL, he would. I am the one that doesn't want it. So that's why I'm trying to sort myself out.


Very encouraging.

Nowis,

Let's start with the sex thing. It is always an "interesting" topic. :RollieEyes: It seems to me you have expectations but you have not articulated them to your H. Actually, I don't think you have articulated them to yourself.

Let's say for discussion that you do want SF, and you really want to enjoy it. I am not a trained psych. and certainly not about sex. But, let's try something for you to consider. Let's have you think about the places that you enjoy being touched. Let's have you think about what in your fantasies really turns you on. Let's have you consider what you do enjoy when having SF. Now in your mind be very very specific.

Now let's take this a step further. Instead of having your H be the aggressor, consider what you would have him do to please you if he were your devoted slave. What would he do, how long would he do it, what would really get your motor running.

Now switch it and think about what he would do if you were his slave. What would he do to you? What would turn you on? How would he treat you?

As you consider these things ask yourself if your H does any of these things for you, in either role. I am sure he does very few because his mind reading is weak, and if he was reared to respect women, he will NOT use his physical abilities to force or coherse you into anything.

Now the point is you need to decide what role your H should play and what he should do while playing that role. Once you have that sorted out. I would ask you to talk to him. I would have you ask him what he fantasizes about with regard to sF with you. If he could play a role what would it be? Don't make the conversation threatening but listen and watch.

I would guess that your desire for OM during your A had a lot to do with "no cost" sex. By that I mean, you really didn't care what he thought of you, you were not married to him. He didn't care what you thought either except that he knew to accomplish his seduction of you, he had to pull out all of the stops and he did. He had nothing to lose but a great deal to gain.

Your H has a lot to lose. You still don't respect him from before he was married to you, and you carry that disrespect to this day 23 years later, although you say he has changed. He learns lessons from you all of the time and your grudge/lack of respect from before you married him, says to him, that if he messes up, is too physical, too 'manly', you will make him pay for the rest of the marriage. Given that situation I would be passive, very passive. Sort of "ok dear, we'll do it your way, when you want it, and I will NOT let the beast loose."

My point, if you need him to do certain things, tell him as he is going, show him as he is doing, and make sure he knows it when you enjoy it. Gradually, he will let loose because he knows he can trust what he does is what will make you happy.

I will tell you this. I wasn't married until my 30's. I had a very enjoyable batchlorhood. But, the very best sex is when I know I have pleased my partner. Most men find this to be true. He knows you are not pleased. He knows OM pleased you better. If you took the time to tell him and show him how you want to be pleased you might have a more confident lover and H. This really is about confidence, and lack of knowledge on his part. You just need to find ways to convey your desires to him so that he can make the experience something YOU like and enjoy.

You also said
What does it mean "the strong side too"? What is missing from your point of view? Your brothers are not your H, they don't occupy the same place in your life. Are you looking for someone that will releave you of your daily worries, take charge and tell you what to do, when to do it, and how to do it? What are you looking for Nowis?

Can you tell me what is more important that an H that loves his family, and is focussed on his family? I really cannot think of a single thing more important or of more value. Not one. What is more important to you in an H?

I see a trend here to remember his every failing even before your marriage to him, but you damn him with "faint praise" for things he seems to be exceptionally strong in. That includes forgiveness and a willingness to endure the pain of your A to protect his family.

It seems to me you are afraid of him. You are afraid to really commit to him, and in all of these years including having children with him, you really never made the leap of faith, that commitment requires. This isn't his problem. I think you know whose problem it is. You may handle your FOO issues OK on a day to day basis, but they have become so engrained that you don't see that some of these issues have affected your entire marriage and even before it.

My last comment is true. As you grow older and the children leave or prepare to leave it will occur to you, that you and your H have shared one of the most important and precious of the life cycle. In the later years you will share more of it as your children marry, have children themselves and you get to enjoy them and spoil them.

Nowis, you won't respect what you don't value. You won't value what you won't see or don't see. You won't see things that are on the face of it not important. Your ring was important and you decided that your H was being selfish to have not bought you a bigger one. Yet, have you ever really discussed this with him? Have you ever asked his opinion of why he was so worried about spending money before he was married. Money he might of felt he needed to protect you?

I don't know his thinking but finances are a big part of how many of us guys think. When my children were born, my concern was how could I possibly pay for their education knowing it would cost 100's of thousands of dollars, and it has. My responsibility as I saw the world then, and see it now, is to make sure my family is safe, and has enough money to afford a decent lifestyle, while putting the kids through college. I may have other roles, but those are my roles for sure, and they are most important to my children.

Please think about these things. And then let's discuss them in terms of the triads I mentioned earlier.

God Bless,

JL

Nowis,

I was going to edit my previous post on SF advice, but thought you might have already read it. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but I think that advice isn't for you. In fact, I think it is bad advice.

Your not going to change your feelings for your H until you see him differently, and then I think the SF issues will be different than they are. So please ignore my advice.

Thanks,

God Bless,

JL

JL


Yes, this is awful but true. When am I going to get it right?


Yes, I am definitely looking for that. My H admires my strength, my going for it attitude, my getting the job done and my capability. It has allowed him to not worry. That's a good thing, but the flip side is that it isn't at all. It did not allow for him to lead which is desperately what I wanted (that's the 'strong guy' thing). I'm sure he wanted to lead but was easier just to let me do it.



Yes, what's up with that? I'm holding a lot of resentment aren't I? I'm holding those grudges deep inside myself aren't I?



Okay, this is weird. My H bought this up yesterday. He was thinking about this whilst away on his business trip and he apologized to me for having such a bad attitude about the ring. For being tightfisted and explained it was due to his upbringing and influence of his mother. I said I totally understand and was sorry that I wasn't honest about it. He could see how that would have made me feel. Weird, just weird.

I'll ignore what you said about SF. It wasn't ringing true for me.

Thanks

Nowis,

You said I realized it would not "rign true" for you, even if was good advice, thus it was bad advice because it would not help you at this point. I think there will come a time when it might.

You also said
What is up with this in my humble opinion, is that you hold these grudges so that you WON'T even be close to your H. These are your FOO issues coming forward, and your resentment and grudges are shields so that you will NEVER be close to your H and see who he is and what he does.

Frankly, even if he was a "caveman" beat his chest and TOOK YOU ANY TIME HE WANTED, ORDERED YOU AROUND, you would still be unhappy, because then he would be violating your boundaries. You think you want a "MAN", but you only want that as long as you are safe. You were safe in the A, because the OM could NOT demand much of you or it would blow up your marriage and then he would have you on his hands. Conversely, you were safe because you could and probably did use your H and family as a shield from really taking this affair to the limit and ending your marriage. You had that option.

You also asked When you stop protecting yourself and realize that your H will and wants to protect you. When you can lay down your defenses, you will come to see that it took a very very strong man to protect you from the consequences of your actions. By rights you should have lost him AND your children. You didn't. By rights you should have lost his love and the respect of your children. You did not.

Why was that? It is very simple, it was because your H decided to protect you. You don't think he is strong and frankly I think that is very foolish thinking. Most "manly" men would have dumped you on the curb and ruined your childrens respect for you, that would not be protecting you, it would have been protecting themselves.

So you have really messed up Nowis, you married a man who will protect his W and his children before he will protect himself. Darn how did you find him? You would be foolish to lose him.

Think about this long and hard. You have turned everything inside out to protect yourself, while married to a man that has been turned inside out to protect you. Don't you think you changed your perspective on things?

In my eyes, you are looking for a "hero" in your life, you should be looking at the man you are married to. He is far stronger than many many men.

If you look at all that you posted to me on the last post, and examine it in the perspective of you protecting yourself by not letting him get close to you, then all of your actions make sense. At least it does to me. Think about it.

Nowis, I do believe that in the near future you are finally going to experience a perspective shift and when you finally do this and drop your shields, you will then have the happy life that you seek. He will lead if you let him, but he is and has been waiting for you.

You know this is a lot like a dinner party. A the host one has the responsibility to put together an event that the guests will enjoy, that even includes selecting the guests. By the same token the guests have a responsibility to come to the party and participate in a manner that makes it a great party. Responsibility runs both ways.

This is true in marriages as well. I think your H is waiting for you to invite him to the party and tell him what he needs to bring to it.

I hope something I have said is use to you.

God Bless,

JL

JL

Had a good sharing session with my H before he left for another business trip. He says all these years I have been emotionally distant. I am not vulnerable to him. I become closed and self sufficient. He has not felt truly close to me. Only a couple of times when I have broken down.



My H and I talked about this. I can totally see my FOO issues now. My dad never caring about me so I emotionally shut down. My mother incapable of showing me love and telling me constantly to trust no-one. Men will let you down. Even in my logic I knew this could not be true, yet I still played out that behaviour.



Very true. I knew not to trust the OM. I wouldn't trust anyone it seems. I have the most trustworthy guy but still don't trust him with myself. Wow.



How do I stop protecting myself and lay down my defenses?



I really want to drop my shields. Does this all begin with me changing my perspective about my H?

Nowis,

You asked
In my opinion it does. You cannot simply drop the shield and walk out naked to your H. I think it must be done in steps. Here is where counseling can really help you. If you have identified that this your problem (your shields) then a counselor can offer you exercises and things to discuss with your H.

My own thoughts is it starts with you seeing the strength it took for your H to hang in there with your affair. It starts by seeing that his pain, and his dedication was not a sign of weakness but one of great strength. It starts with you "thanking him" for what he has done for you. It starts with little things such as touching him when you talk to him, and understanding that he is not perfect but he is trying.

As you start to see things from his point of view, your perspective will change. You MUST understand that he has seen you at your worst, your most distant, your most judgmental and has still committed to protecting and loving you.

What you don't understand yet, is that you NEED him in your life. He is what was missing from your childhood, a loving, caring person. You don't need the "cold" he man sort of guy. You don't need the aloof guy. You actually married the guy you needed, but did not trust yourself enough to let that need be fulfilled.

Nowis, the shield will come down when you learn to trust yourself. You actually chose wisely when selecting your mate, but you don't trust that. So you have protected yourself by misinterpreting (DJ'ing) him, and focusing only on his weakness and not his strengths. IN fact you even interpretted his strengths, willingness to work through your affair, as a weakness.

I say learn to trust yourself and that you are strong and make good decisions, and then come to realize that you actually made a very good decision in marrying your H. As you do this, my opinion is you will change your perspectives on both yourself and him, and then your shields will come down.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL



I'll go back to the Psych and get help.



I will continue with this. I came to realize early in this thread that my H wasn't weak because he stayed with my through all the dross of the A. Many men would have left, I know.



Yes, I have a sense of that. That's why I can't and haven't let go already. Yes, we have been told that we both married for the right reasons and we are actually a good match?!? Bingo!!! Yes, I did not trust myself enough to let my need be fulfilled. I didn't trust me and I didn't trust him.

This has been a very insightful and focused week for me. I just hope I can stay with it and begin to change.

Thank you for your guidance and care.

Nowis,

You don't need to change, you need to change your perspectives. You are just fine as you are. Ask your H, he loves you, he simply wants to be closer to you, and have you love him. It is your perspectives that are holding you back.

This takes time, but I think you are starting to see a path forward. You are not a bad person Nowis, your H knows this. You need to know it. In fact you are a strong person but you don't know it yet. You will realize that you are when it occurs to you that you can handle anything in front of you, that with your H and your family you are strong enough to not need to be in defensive mode all of the time.

Just thoughts, I hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

Another thing you can work on is asking your psych to help you deal with your anger and resentments over your childhood. Heck, even people who had picture perfect childhoods will grow resentments about something. But if you had any dysfunction, you learned to cope 'around' it, typically with unhealthy methods (such as not trusting men, not being vulnerable).

For instance, my dad was a jerk and really affected me. In therapy, I basically had to go through a mourning period for the childhood I wished I had. Mourning and anger at what I lost out on. It could make a huge difference for you if you can learn to forgive whoever did such things.

JL

Thanks for soothing my nerves in an instant! "You don't need to change...". I feel like I've wrung myself inside and out. However, it is clear from all that you have said to me, and what I am knowing to be true this last week, is that I need to change my perspective. Easier said that done. Positive thinking isn't quite it. I've done a fair amount of that over the years. It doesn't change you on the inside necessarily.

So if it is my perspectives that are holding me back, I need some specific help with that. I'm not a bad person - after all this, that's good to hear.

Going to make an appointment with the Psych and see if she can help me specifically with that. The general message from her is leave the marriage or be prepared to live in a dissatisfying marriage resulting in another affair!

SF is going to take some time yet isn't it?