Hope.

Please.

Stop.

Tricks like this will only cause them to batten down their hatches and go further underground.

You cannot save them from effects of their adultry.

You MUST out them for real. Games will not suffice.

Big dope--he's still thinking "inside the box"! :RollieEyes: Didn't you say he was an assistant pastor? If I remember correctly and he was, then I'm going to say in plain English what I could only hint at (or avoid entirely) if he had not previously been a believing man. He must be spiritually broken before he can be safely taken back, with a repentance "not to be repented of." He needs to be sorry for his sin, not just sorry he got caught. He needs to want to know how to do anything and everything he can possibly find in order to make things right with you, not how little he can get away with to get by, get in your house, get back in your bed. Cooperating with the intermediaries would be a good sign that something fundamental was changing in his head.

SMB's thread is a long one. You probably won't have time to read it in one sitting. But it would be very educational for you nevertheless. Making a mistake on this is going to hurt just as bad, and probably worse, than the first time around so be careful. Be wise.

tl

I love you TL. You are one of my most favoritest people.

Okay crapola you guys. I do agree with everyone's input and have even prayed Lord do not let this man come home until he is humbled and repentant.

DD17 said that when they walked around the mall yesterday he was weird and very very calm. she said he apologized for being nasty to her earlier in the day and she said well dad the truth is the truth and he didn't even say anything. She said he was so calm and quiet mom he was like, gay or something-IDK this is the explanation of a 17 year old.

But here is the crapola, i reviewed my Plan B letter and I didn't refer him back to the IM's. My letter just says the door to my heart and the family is open once you commit to NC and a plan of recovery.

It does not however say to go to them. I know he thinks while the A is going on were gonna to go thru the IM's and when he's ready to go NC he can come to me.

Now here's the problem, If I repeat what he told DD17 about wrapping his self in a box on Christmas and puttng his self on teh door step, DD17 will surely probably be very mad at me for passing this to the IM's and also H will be mad that DD17 shared that information with me.

Hmmmm.....going to need to address this but need to do it without including DD17's conversation with her dad...hmmmm....

Who me??? No no silly bears, you guys are my favoritest peoples! I'm so glad your back Lil Dealany!!! Yes I gave everyone Lil in front, I now crown you Lil Dealany!!!

Hope urythang went well recently with yous. Like my slang....

Don't worry about having to write him another letter to include the IMs.

If he does show up in a box, just hand him a copy of the letter with the things he needs to do highlighted and ask if they are done yet.

If he answers "no" then say, "You've got a little work to do, then" refer him to the highlighted bits and then quietly shut the door.

Then you dust off your hands like Mary Poppins does and say, "spit, spot," and go about your day.

I don't care if your Plan B letter didn't specify intermediaries. He knows that's what you want and has fought against it and defied your expressed desire at every step. He insults you by blowing off what you've asked for as surely as he has directly and explicitly insulted them. If his heart were in a place right now where he would be safe for you to let back into your home, he'd be trying to work with the intermediaries to get things fixed up. The fact that he does not suggests to me that this is still all about him, even if he doesn't know it himself.

If he really does the present thing, he's counting on the Grand Gesture, the Big Surprise, to so blow you away that you fail to notice that he hasn't really done anything you've asked him to. He wants to be taken back on HIS terms, not yours. Beware. Be VERY ware...

P.S. Kimmy, I love you too. Thanks for saying so. This has been a very "down" week for me, and it was nice to have a wee bit of an upward goose!

Okay. But he won't have any thing done as he has no clue about conditions cuz my letter just states go NC and agree to plan of recovery.

I did mention to DD17 that daddy can't just walk in that I will hand him a letter of conditions at the door. I am worried that if he does end up in a box at my door on Christmas that if I send him off, my kids will be for obvious reasons, very hurt.

I did explain to DD17 that I would be handing him the letter to protect us from him doing this again, but of course if your babies wake up Christmas morning and see there dad has come home they will be elated!

DD17 had dream about 5 days ago and told our Pastor cuz she felt God gave her the dream, then I send him away.

Don't get me wrong guys I ain't no dummy and would NEVER take him in or allow him to my bed with out the conditions, in fact I have seen on this board how these WS agree to NC come home and then do not implement everything else, so I'm not gonna go that route, I want him to complete the 6 conditions AND THEN he can come home and move into the spare room until he is through withdrawals.

Anyways I hate this, I don't want this to happen on Christmas for the protection of my kids. I don't want to have my kids end up balling when I send him away and he can't really complete anything that day because everything is freaking closed....ARGGG!

I dont think he will anyways but it's just the thought of if it does happen!

Well then, I think we need to figure out exactly how you expect him to be if he's allowed to come home, and have it written down for when he shows up in his boxers...um...I mean in his box.

Tell in the letter lay it all out - if he says he'll do it have him sign something saying he'll do it.

Keep the paper.

I had the Wookie sign something along the lines of he'd do such and such for us. My lawyer said that while it was not admissable in court, it did show that he made promises he didn't intend to complete (if he hadn't stayed with me and we ended up D'ing).

I truly agree with what is being said here by everyone. And know its being said in the best interest of the kids and I. I don't want a false recovery, not just for me but my kids.

I think what I would like to do is hand him the letter and ask if we could talk for a few minutes. Then watch him read the letter and IF he agree-which that is a whole other ball game-but have him sign(I was thinking in blood and I can volunteer to poke-hee hee) it like you did with wookie and then elaborate further at that point. Explaining that for the protection of our kids and myself due to is false recovery this Christmas morning delivery cannot be about him or nostalgia because our kids do not deserve more abandonment and lies. Possibly further explain to him that recovery will not be easy possibly harder and if he thinks he can't do the work, don't do this to me and to the kids if he's not 100% committed. And that to show his commitment maybe he can apologize to my IM's who were only trying to help us.

IDK, man I don't want him to come on Christmas! Is that crazy most people would be praying that their WS's would. No thanks. I'd rather he come before that then he would be able to complete the things quickly on the list. IDK. Kimmy what do you think???

I know this sounds dumb but none of it gets my hopes up at all. I really have (oh yeah can ya feel it coming....)NO EXPECTATIONS even in this lame Christmas box bull crap. I mean for the love of God man don't wait till Christmas you are not the best present to man kind, your a freaking WS. I mean I don't know what I want more Christmas morning my WS wrapped in a box on my door or a buring bag of dog doo...Hmmm...technically that may be the same thing...LMAO!

You could always call the Salvation Army to pick up a surprise gift you've left for them on your front porch.

Why yes I could I hadn't even thought of that! I'm not sure if the junk in the trunk is so bad they may refuse the pick up! I mean this box could have a lingering odor of Sea Hag coming from it!

Okay sorry, I am humoring myself.

T2L, that burning bag of poop is started to look more appealing.

Holidays do funny things to people, heartstrings, nostalgia, family -- That might get some of these WS looking towards home but its true it is a tricky time. Christmas is only one day and then the fog will engulf them again.
I do agree with you about how the kids would feel turning him away. I know my daughter would be mad totally.
You have done all the right things. Hang tight. And you could always answer the door in a sexy Mrs. Clause suit for effect before you close the door.

I just wanted to quote that because it's so DARN FUNNY!

T2L, here's an idea.
Maybe have a document written out of requirements he must complete before coming home, and then requirements he must complete after moving in.

For example, before moving home he must
Write NC letter that you approve and mail.
Delete all secret email accounts.
Agree to key logger, GPS, whatever.
Find a MC or IC or whatever.

After moving home you expect
Continued transparency
Attend MB weekend
this, that, and the other.

You can meet him at the door, tell him you're glad he's ready to end his A and work on the marriage. Show him the document and tell him to let your IMs know when each of the "must have before moving home" items is complete. Once those are complete and he has communicated that *through the intermediaries* you'll talk to him directly.

After y'all have talked directly, gone to MC, had some dates, etc. then you can let him move in when you're darn good and ready.

He has to EARN his way back into your conversations, your life, your home, and your bed.

Dats pretty good Lil Turtle LOL.

Okay well he lives with OW so shouldn't he go to his moms or something while he completes these conditions.

What about Christmas day? Again, I really don't think he's gonna do it, but should he, he is going to be handed the conditions. I do like what Kimmy said about having him sign the conditions. I mean what if he agrees to it all even after i show him the conditions and paint a very difficult recovery picture and making him contact my IM's. I'm gonna post them at the bottom so's y'all can sees em. And see if you have any other input from a coming home on Christmas perspective. I sat the kids down a few minutes ago and addressed the comment that daddy made to them about coming home in a box on Christmas day. And actually he knows we previously had done Christmas with our kids on Christmas eve-to which he commented to DD17 last week maybe I will come to the window that night. I just told DD17 then it gets moved to mommies bedroom LOL

I told them that I have to protect all 3 of us from daddy, coming home for the wrong reasons and that I don't want daddy leaving again because he was feeling sorry for himself.

I explained to them that i will be handing their dad a list that he must agree to, and all of it. I told them I will be explaining to him that he cannot be coming home because he is feeling sorry for his self and that this cannot be about him but about the family. I also explained that I will be telling him that this cannot be a Christmas nostalgia thing that there is a lot of hard work to be done and if he cannot handle it that he should wait because the kids and I cannot handle another abandonment or betrayal. I told them that I may have to send him away if he does not agree, they seemed sad but said they understand.


Here are my conditions:

Extraordinary precautions for our Marriage:
Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible. All these precautions must me be met because you lied and went back to her a 2nd time and devastated me and the kids two times.


1ST Condition
No contact with Sea Hag forever, period. No loopholes. Write a letter to Sea Hag explaining you will not ever communicate with her again and your intentions of marriage recovery and give it to me when you are done so I may ensure it's mailing.

To ensure No contact:
Change Cell phone number, close down all secret emails and use the family email account, access to your lap top and trade phones at anytime, remove all her and/or her friends phone #'s from your cell phones and cut all ties. Tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind.


2ND Condition
Read Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley and abide by the principals in the book to recover or marriage. Schedule Phone Counseling session with Harley's immediately.


3RD Condition
Once precautions are fulfilled, Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go no matter how far away you work. Remove your name from apartment lease and showing proof of it.


4TH Condition
Since she previously worked at your employer and everyone there ALREADY knows, I would like the both of us to go into employer and explain our plans for recovery ask them to never again schedule you in Orange county and give you a new email address and cell phone #. Have the office or manager intercept all calls for your old email and cell phone.

5TH Condition
Close down personal bank account and use family bank account. All deposits will be made into joint bank account. I will pick up all checks and no finances in any form will be given to the toad. We can do the bills together.

6TH Condition
Accountability for time forever. This means phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Calling when late etc. Do whatever necessary to establish trust.

Remember NO EXPECTATIONS. Instead enjoy the holiday with your kids.

I only mentioned the holidays because it took me completely by shock. I hadn't heard ANYTHING from WH for over 3 months. Then 2 days before Christmas, he called me at work and announced he was in the process of moving back home.

I was SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But luckily I posted on MB before leaving work, and Mel said "Does he have NC with the OW?"

Oops. That didn't even enter my mind. After my fine Plan B letter, I was certain he agreed to NC. So I drove home and asked him. He had most of his things back in the house. When I mentioned NC with the OW, he told me that he was going to move home first, and THEN have NC.

If he shows up at your door (which is what he thinks he is supposed to do when he is ready to work on recovery) and agrees to your conditions, then I would let him come in. I really don't see the point in continuing plan B at that point. Plan B is supposed to get your H to end the A, it should not be a form of punishment.

I would also make it clear to the kids ahead of time that dad is not moving back home until he meets mom conditions.

I agree he needs to move out of the seahags place. My H moved out of OW and into a hotel for a couple of weeks and then into an apartment for a couple of months before he moved back in with me.

Plan B is to give her peace and to protect her and the children from the chaos. If his ending the affair is a result of Plan B, fine... but that doesn't mean he's committed to recovery. Ask those who have had the affair end, the WS comes home, only to have their WS move on to another OP or to come home and do nothing towards recovery.

Lil B,
I have absolutely NO EXPECTATIONS, and really don't want him to come home that day. I just am aware now the way his fogged in head may be going since he said to our kids that he should wrap his self in a box and put his self on front door Christmas morning. I will get NO contact, that's it and that's then end. He's gonna cut that Hag off and agree to it ALL! If he can do that Christmas morning then Yee haw. Not sure how since everything is closed but if you want something bad enough I think if your creative it can be done. I won't let him have my Christmas or my kids with out conditions and agreeing to it. I dont care if he has to call her from the driveway while I listen, write her the letter in his car and hand it to me, he can give me his personal cell phone til the following day when he can call sprint and change the number and he can leave a holiday message on his work phone and give it to me until we can go to his employer together explaining recovery, he can give me his bloody work laptop till we go to his boss, he can delete all the secret email accounts from his laptop in the driveway, he can hand over his bank card and check book to his new account to me and the day after Christmas it can be closed. I mean if there is a will there is a way and all that can be done Christmas morning in my driveway. I mean he should be used to it hes been eating ramen there for months. LOL And I think I will have him email my IM"s and apologize for his asinine behavior-this will be a big one and will really show his level of commitment and repentance. Hey and if he agrees and does all this on Christmas morning(this would be an act of God) then how will he get all his belongings if he didn't bring them with him. Can I go with him to get his stuff or would that be a trust building thing? But again I really really think he was blabbing when he said it to the kids and I truly do not think he will do it.

Lil PM,
I agree there is no way in Hades he is coming in this house with our commitment and I will know his level of it once I give him the conditions and have a very loving and non LB'ing talk with him fully inquiring on his level of commitment and going into extreme detail of what recovery is and how hard it will be. I am going to really drive home this can't be I feel sorry for myself crap or all about me.

ARE YOU NUTZ???????? No way! :twobyfour:

Call a courier to pick it up or go with. YOU make the arrangements. Leave it all there and go buy new.

IF this happens, and that's a big IF... the biggest deal-breaker is ANY contact with OW. Right?