Also, I would encourage you to read the sections in the MB resources about plan A or B is there is alcohol abuse or domestic violence. Some strategies are not recommended because the safety risk!
BF439

Get this man out of your life. I am NOT kidding. He is about to go off the deep end. I'm sorry if this scares you but that's my intention. I too have seen what domestic violence looks like and he is escalating. What if your parents hadn't shown up? Or the police? How far would this have gone?

Does he drink? If he's doing this sober, that's even scarier.

No way would I let him take my child for an overnight with the way he is behaving. I've heard too many horror stories.

MB doesn't work when there is abuse, and dear, you ARE being abused... even if it's only psychological... now. When that quits working... and it is... who knows what he will do.

Please, please... get that AVO and take further steps to protect YOU and your kids.

Seriously.

I know this is scary territory, and you don't want to think your H capable of something, but here's what I know from studying abuse. They will be quite charming until they stop getting their way; then they fight with everything they got - manipulation, charm, anger, intimidation...

When D18 dumped her abusive boyfriend, he called her, texted her, emailed her, all together about 60 times in one hour. We finally had to leave the house because we were afraid he was going to come over. He then continued to harass her for another 9 months - and they had only dated two months. That's just how abusive personalities are. They cannot STAND to lose. Does that sound familiar?

One of the main techniques is to abuse you when you are alone.

It was interesting to see him back off when he gave the car keys to your father.In my case I always tried to have people around the house as often as possible. The crazy making aspect of the behaviour loses impetus when the perpetrator thinks he will lose face in front of an impartial and uninvolved witness.

You are making progress in your understanding of your situation it took me a long time to figure out what was happening. The more you understand the behaviour the more you can figure out how to deal with it.

Best Wishes&Good Luck with the solicitor tomorrow

And make sure you document all of this and explain it to the solicitor!

A lot of good points here tonight. I don't have time to go over all the aspects of abusive behavior, but others have hit upon a lot of them, such as not doing it when anyone else is around, blaming you, being the victim, obsessive need to contact you...you really need to get hold of Why Does He Do That? If you can't get that, do you have a library where you can pick up other books on abuse?

hello, I'm sorry that I ahven't been around the past few days have been dealing with my own stuff....

I'm hearing alot of things that scare me and remind me of the days with POWS...

I certainly hope that you are taking measures to protect yourself and the kids...

POWS did similar things and in the end I was more scared to stay then I was to leave...LIFE has been so much better since I left too!

I was so scared in the end that I feared that he would hit me or worse kill me...

I heard that he feels that you are trying to keep the kids away from him...I got the same stuff...and of course I wasn't but that is his reality and not your's...

This is a very unstable man and if you can't do this for yourself you HAVE to do this for your kids...you have to stop the cycle here and now...if you don't down the road your kids will accept the same bad behavior because that's what they will have learned...

He's going to get worst...look at the pattern to date...

Mine went from intimidation to breaking things, to tracking me down, and the next step was hitting me...read up of domestic violence...that's what clued me in to what was going on it my life...you've heard the horrible stories about men killing their wives...you know what happens...

I didn't want to end up being a story in the newspaper...what do you want?

I understand HOW scary this is and how hard it is...I remember how I felt...I can relate...

It's up to you!

"Courage is fear turned inside out!" You can do this...do you see how crazy this is? Do you want the rest of your life to be like this? We're all speaking up out of care and concern for you and those beautiful children! We love you so much that we want better for you! You guys deserve better! Dig deep down and end the madness! Protect yourself at all cost! Call the police the first time something is not normal, write everything down...he can not and will not take the kids away...

That was my fear...he threaten to take them and burn the house down...I lived in fear of what he would do...Do you? It's not normal!

You posted this just 2 days ago. At that point you still held some hope that you would be a recovered family by Christmas - only 2 weeks. You have GOT to see the reality of this situation

Your WH is truly sick. Not just a little controlling, but truly sick. There is no way he could be rehabilitated in only 2 weeks. If he were to have an amazing revelation tomorrow, and come to you with a NC letter for OW, a truly repentant heart, and a kinder gentler spirit, the two of you still would have a LOT of work to do before he could move back into your home.

You have seen his mood swings. He is depressed and suicidal one day, angry and abusive the next day, blaming you for everything the next day.

What worries me the most, is that you don;t see the reality of this situation. When your WH shows the "nice guy" side of him, you are ready to move him back in and pretend that you are a healthy family. Even though you know, YOU KNOW, that he will turn into the mean guy within only 24 hours. You are in such a hurry to have the appearance of a healthy, happy Christmas family that you will cave in as soon as he says "ok, I aggree to NC"

But NC with this OW is truly the least of your worries. Truly. This man is sick. Mature, healthy adults do not call 60 times, and then hop in the car and drive over to pound on the door. Mature, healthy adults call a few times and then say "she ticks me off, but I will have to wait until morning to deal with it".

He needs a lot of counseling. He needs to learn life skils. How to deal with his depression, how to ask for what he wants in life without threats, how to deal with anger. He will not learn these skills in two weeks. Sorry, not that easy.

Thank you all for your replies. I still don't have internet access at home at the moment so only saw your responses this morning. I think the above is a good summary of what you are all trying to tell me. I get it. I am a slow learner and still jaded with my own personality flaws and I still have many moments where I think I can fix this relationship and this man.

I want to remain honest with you all and that's why I know that some of you will already be covering your eyes with what I am about to tell you.

Yesterday afternoon I had a sales meeting with a client on the corner of the street where WH works. I went into WH's shop after the meeting and we went upstairs. I was kind and relaxed. He was avoiding eye contact and asking me to leave, very nicely. I said that if he wanted to talk, we could talk today, now or after work here, not at the house when I am on my own with the kids, especially late at night.

He walked into another room, shut the door and asked me to leave.

I was shocked. I said through the door that he wanted to talk and the things that happened last night were not acceptable. Again, he asked me to leave and said he was going to call my dad. I said ok, and left.

Now, old silly me...I did wait for him to finish work just in case he changed his mind but he walked past the car so I left and went home. He had called my dad and said I came in to speak with him but when he'd turned around I'd gone - not true.

I did speak with his brother last night too. They are still having the kids for a sleepover tonight, picking them up from mum and dad's etc. His brother now knows from me that I am not keeping the kids away from WH over Christmas, I am just trying to do the best for the kids and share the time. Having an ally at this point in time is important. I need someone on WH's side to be a little reasonable with WH. They are all vindictive and could quite easily live on hate alone.

I don't know what the answers are for abusive relationships. All I know is that I have tried to diffuse the situation. In my experience, WH is far better calm and relaxed and this will remain for a time.

I read some chapters of self help books in the bookstore last night and one by Patricia Evans - THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP - How to recognize it and how to respond. I might go back and try to find it in the library.

I also saw on her internet site today a new book - THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE MAN, CAN HE CHANGE? shows victims of verbal abuse how to empower themselves, improve their relationships, and change their lives for the better. It looks like there is now a toolkit for those men who WANT to change. Her Books

I sent him a message last night "I don't understand. You didn't want to be with me so I left you alone. Then I came today because you want to talk and now that's not good enough either. What do you want from me? What do you want to happen from here? Should we push the divorce through and sell the house now? I love you but this is not what either of us need in life or in a marriage"

No response. It was my white flag so that he knows that I will not fight for "this" marriage anymore and chances of R are slim if at all. He is not in the right frame of mind to discuss all the things I think he is doing wrong, obviously, so this lets him off the hook and hopefully gives me some space too. I need the space more than anything. Without space I know that I am not seeing things as clearly as all of you. I am so wound up in stuff that I still tell myself it will be ok with WH.

I am seeing Legal Aid at lunchtime today. Will update you all soon.

Oh 2M2L, I haven't read your thread for a while but I was shocked to read about your experiences of the past couple of days. I feel so sorry for you and for your children. He sounds like a dangerous man to me. If I were you I would withdraw from him completely in order to clear your head and see your way through this situation. I don't know if any good marriage can be recovered from this but right now you need to get away from him either way.
Please look after yourself. Are you sure that there is nobody who you could live with to help you get through this?

Hugs,

Tully

2M2L =

What in the (#*$)(#*$ are you doing??????

You are the problem. You continually sabatage your own Plan B.

I think you need more help than a message board can give. You and your husband are toxic to each other, and neither of you will change your own behavior.

Go on, keep playing your games with WH.

Silly you? Is that really what you think this is? Just some silly little thing you did?
You two are supposed to be grown ups. You are parents for crying out loud. You are raising two children. And you think that this constant back and forth abuse is just "silly" you.

You have been told time and again to get help for yourself. To stay away from him for awhile. You are allowing him to abuse you. he shows up at your hosue in the middle of the night and scares you - and your innocent babies. And you just "casually" show up at his work? Honestly, in this case, your WH was the bigger person. he was 100% right in telling you to leave. You were 100% wrong to show up and confront him at work.

You are not thinking of your children. You are thinking of yourself, and how much you want to have a H at Christmas time. Someone to stare into your eyes and hand you the diamond ring of your dreams.

If you want to continue to accept his abuse, fine. If you want to confront him at work, fine. But give your children away to someone who can raise them the way a grown up would. Your maturity level is not any higher than your 4 year old right now.

You tell him not to contact you directly, only through your IM and then show up at his work place??? And then wait for him? And then send him messages? What the heck are you doing? Were you hoping to get him angry enough to attack you? Are you trying to be an even more pathetic victim?


unbelieveable. You are just trying to pick a fight with him. More threats. More of the same old crap that has not worked in the past. Why are you asking him what he wants from you? He was leaving you alone today. Why did you try to stir up trouble?
More threats about "pushing the D through" and selling the house right away.
if you were going to D him, you would just file. You would not keep throwing that up into his face. You are clearly trying to threaten him and scare him into coming home, in time for Christmas.

I have come to the conclussion that either you are:
1. Making all this stuff up. This is all too childish to be true
or
2. You are just as sick as he is. You don't really mind the abuse, and in fact you like the feeling of being the "victim".

Seriously, if this is the life you want, then go right ahead. But you are a MOM. A MOM. You have been trusted with the care of two precious children. You are supposed to protect them from harm. But all you seem to be interested in is your own emotional self.

Some day, I hope you discover that you do not need a man in your life to be whole.

Bravo Womanoffaith!

I was too angry and annoyed to post any further.

How immature is this? Why on EARTH would you have gone to his office today. Were you trying to sabatage his job? Make him lose his cool at his place of employment? Did you have to prove to yourself that you still have enough power over him to make him react?

What you did was wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start.

(@#*&$UP(#@JURP(*#J$D

Well spoken Lexxy

Bump to see how you are doing?

Bump to see if anything's happened?

2M2L --

I would like you to answer these questions honestly:

What do you want?

Do you want personal recovery? Or do you WANT this guy to continue abusing you as he has?

Why did you go to his office? Did you hope to provoke him and get your "fix" of him?

We realize Plan B is difficult for you. Plan D looks imminent, though, due to his behavior...and yours.

I'll pray that you both either agree to part ways or WORK together.

nevermind,


Miss M

I am just as amazed as the others here that you walked into WH's work...this is all signs that you yourself are still living in your our little world and do NOT WANT TO SEE how dangerous your sitch is for you and your kids...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results"

You are doing the same thing!!!!!

I didn't post anything about your bright idea but you have got to realize that this man is dangerous and he's a lair...he will laie to make himself look good this is a behavior that doesn't go away because you are in Plan B...because you have kids together...because you keep wishing that he will change...truth of the matter is there is nothing that will change this from your end...he DOESN'T even realize what he's doing is wrong, how he acts is wrong...if he admits that then he has to admit that his behavior and acts have damaged people...his core belief about himself has to change...THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN...

POWS has lost everything! EVERYTHING!! ME, THE KIDS, THE HOUSE, THE "AMERICAN" DREAM...becasue of lies, cheating, threats, anger...you admitted that he's narcisstic and I'm sure that you ahve read up of this...HE'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE!!!

:twobyfour:

IMHO, you are NOT ready to walk away and that's completely sad...someone's going to get hurt more than they already have...possibly even killed...and your kids deserve a mother and father...but they don't have to be together...there are wonderful kids out they that have great parents as long as they are not together...you're little bright idea could have gotten you seriously hurt...

Lucky for you, you already know that he will not act out in front of other people because he wants to save face...and if something DOES happen he will turn it around and lie through his teeth...

YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF IN A POSITION IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT AND SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN THAT YOU WILL LOSE YOUR KIDS...did you ever think that WH could have started something in there and said that YOU attacked him...and then what if he was believed...WHAT IF A JUDGE BELIEVED THAT YOU ARE THE CRAZY DERANGED ONE AND GAVE YOUR KIDS TO HIM?

IT HAPPENS YOU KNOW...GOOD MOTHERS DO LOSE THEIR KIDS TO ABUSIVE MEN EVRYDAY FOR DOING STUPID THINGS JUST LIKE YOU DID...

We are ALL speaking up out of care and concern for you...what's it going to take 2M2L?

I've done some pretty stupid things when I couldn't get it through my head that we were bad for each other...you don't have to feel sorry for me...I don't...I did what I had to do to be keep me and the kids safe...15 years I spent in a dream world...hoping and wishing HE WOULD CHANGE...maybe if I did this or THAT he WOULD SEE what he was doing was wrong...maybe, just MAYBE he would calm down in his old age...become a better father...a better husband...I was so WRONG...at one point I could give the excuse I didn't know better...UNTIL "I" woke up!!!

When are you?

When he stabs you, chokes you, hits you, puts you in the hospital? How far are "YOU" going to let him go? Don't you think your kids need you regardless if you and there father or together?

The people here were pretty angry with me at one point too! It's hard to hear what they have to say...made me not want to come back...thought about leaving the board many times becasue I feared what they said was true and i didn't want to listen but deep down I wanted their help! Can you relate to that?

I stand here today a proud woman becasue I faced my fears head on...said NO MORE!!!! It's your turn!

Rin - speaking as one of those who got a little frustrated with you as you buried yourself in meeting his needs after he burned your books... I say....

You've come a long way baby!

2Much - there's a reason I asked Rin to help you - she's been where you are now, with a very similar man psychologically.

Please please please listen to her!

I am back at work today after the weekend of no internet/laptop so I have caught up on your posts this morning.

I am feeling very foolish and stupid and confused.

I guess I was trying to control the situation. In my head a public place, especially his work, was an ideal place to see him and "sort it out". That way I was pretty sure that I would be safe. Hindsight is 20/20.

Yes, sometimes I think that it would be easy to not come back to MB and just continue to stuff it up gleefully. It is easy to look at my charming amazing H and want that and think that I could have that if...

I definately don't see it as a dangerous situation. He has been mad before but it has never gotten to "that" point. I did see the legal aid lady on Friday but getting an AVO before Christmas without documented violence is near impossible. It makes no difference if I put one on him or the police. In fact, the police can get an interim one a lot faster if I don't do it.

We had a Christmas work lunch on Friday which turned into drinks after work and then a very late night for me. WH had taken the kids for their first sleepover so I had run out of excuses not to go out with the girls. It was a huge eyeopener. I felt fun and flirty and for the first time I realised that their might be life after marriage. I know that sounds strange, but even though I have been called a "yummy mummy", I really believed that having children would be unattractive to suitors. Apparently not.

I told everyone that I was not available, was wearing my rings and they know I am hopeful of things working with H.

On my way home at 3:30am, I got a text message with a picture of my children in the clothes I had packed for the sleepover and a message saying to pick them up fromt he casino. I freaked out and called the number. It was a guy in Adelaide who doesn't know me, my WH or my children. I called WH but he did not answer. I sent him the message and asked him to confirm that the kids were not at the casino and I didn't have to pick them up.

That went down like a lead balloon. He answered and said the kids were asleep and he could see them. He was mad that I had called and woke them up. I explained why but...

The next day WH dropped kids off at my parents house and told my dad about my late night phone call, said I was drunk and at a party and it was a bullsh1t excuse.

I showed my parents and sisters the message and they completely understood. They saw the time of the message, the number and the photo of the kids in the outfits that they came home in that day (Christmas shirts etc). They too knew how worried I would have been and why I called him. What more can I do? I had finished drinking at 11pm and I think WH was annoyed that I was out late when he had the kids.

I took the kids to swimming and then they slept and I took them to a party with the work girls. We dropped in for 30 minutes and then home to bed.

Yesterday was a Christmas lunch with my parents and sisters and it was lovely. WH called them to say goodnight and was super happy. It was on loudspeaker as they were in the bath. He said he had been shopping and got them Christmas presents.

When I got home I pottered around happily. My weekend had been fun and hassle free. I missed WH but I felt great.

Then, OW's mother called me. She accused me of sending her 3 text messages saying WH and OW had been away for 3 nights at the beach away together. I said I didn't send it, don't know her number and haven't spoken to WH for x. I said WH was with the kids on Friday but I didn't know his movements for Sat or Sun.

She was panicked but I couldn't do much. I just listened and told her there was nothing I could do. She would have to confront OW. Apparently OW has been miserable the last 3 weeks without WH and they have not been together apart from rehearsals. I think she is in withdrawal.

The phone call really annoyed me. I didn't want to be in the headspace of thinking about him and someone else, even if I thought it was/was not true. I don't know why someone has sent her those messages and what anyone has to gain from it. I don't want to know about any of it.

So, today I am at work and confused. Yes, if my WH and I can get help (loads of it) and WORK on our relationship as well as ourselves, maybe there is hope. But, I am ok with being alone. I am getting stronger all the time. I think he is beyond wanting to be with me. He hasn't tried to contact me or see me or do anything. I guess he is still mad but I don't know.

Christmas in 3 days. I am still sad about it but I'm going to make it great for the kids. I've been a happy and fun mum this weekend and the kids love me like this. I love me like this too.

Love, happiness, peace and affection.

I would love personal recovery. I know I am damaged. I do not want to be abused but I think I had made it to the point where any attention from WH, good or bad, was like my reason to breathe.

I wanted to see him and try and talk in a safe and controlled place. I am afraid when home on my own and know he is controlled and calm around other people. I didn't think he would agree to see me so went to his office where I knew he would be. I also remembered similar behaviour with my ex-boyfriends. After all of your posts and horror at my actions, I did some searching and realised I had started this behaviour with ex-boyfriend #1. I gave myself to him when I was 19. First love, but he was abusive physically and emotionally and I thought I could turn it around and make it work and keep him in my life forever. I thought love was the most powerful gift of all. I am messed up. I do need help.

When I sent the text to WH asking to sell the house and divorce, I was being honest, not trying to get a reaction. I think I realised the stupidity of my actions and wanted it to stop. Getting a divorce would maybe give me the peace I need and the reason to leave him alone too.

Thank you. I still have hope...