We had the phone session with Steve this morning. He asked to speak to H first, and gave him an overview of the basic Concepts. I was outside with the dog, to give them private time. Then I spoke to Steve briefly at the end. He said that he wouldn't advise separation at this time, because it sounds like I/we have more work to do. That I am going to do this work with H or without him. This I can agree with, that separation is a big step away from building the marriage I would want with H. That H sounds very receptive to the ideas they talked about, and that he thinks we can do this. Yes, I believe there is hope, too, or I wouldn't have called, I would have just thrown in the towel altogether.

His plan was for us to fill out the ENQ and LBQ, send them to him, and schedule two more sessions. One for me to meet with Steve, like H did, so that he could review the ideas with me, too, as there are some things that he heard from H that I need to work on, too. I don't know what H said, but I can see myself that there are areas that I still want to work on. The second, to go over the ENQs and LBQs, and describe a plan to work on this together.

H wanted to talk about the session after, and I did, too, so we went for a walk. H really liked what he heard, and agreed with everything that Steve said. He said that it's up to me whether H is romantically in love with me. That I gained the weight knowing that was making him unhappy and knowing that it made me unnattractive to him. H said, for example, that I have lost 25 pounds, but that I still have that much to lose again. But that H, himself, is done with counseling. No more sessions for him. That to him, it's a luxury that we can't afford.

To be honest, I do think that working together, we could have done this. I don't have the willingness to keep working on this here without his active participation. I know that one spouse saves the marriage every day, and we have made huge progress. But H tells me that his changes are temporary, to keep the peace, and his past actions have backed that up. Later this morning, he called me to tell me that he'll be gone next week, too. Good to know. I am glad that he was willing to get on the call today. But I don't think that much has changed from yesterday.

Got some time to process after meeting with Steve. I was thinking separation because I didn't want to live with the hostility anymore. Once I let H know, he didn't feel the need to pressure me with hostility anymore. We've been getting along really well the last few months, but I have doubts we can keep that up long term. I keep thinking about what jayne said, that I don't need to think that it would have to turn out the same way, into more hostility again, because I'm different, and he's different. About what LA says, that we are new everyday.

Then taking to Steve. I want my marriage to work. I lost faith that H would be willing to be kind to me long term. I still don't trust that yet, but it's been a good start. I think that I can talk to H about staying. About working out something that we're both enthusiastic about. He's said that if I stay here now, and in June, I don't agree to move, then he's going to divorce me at that time. And he may. Or he may not. He may find that he likes this new marriage that we have.

I've thought long and hard about the moving. I'm not enthusiastic about moving to California. Maybe one day, if we're madly in love with each other again, I would be enthusiastic then. Or once the kids are grown. I don't really know, and it's not honest to make a promise today about how I might feel later.

Maybe if I talk to him about not separating now, but not moving in June, he would choose hostility again. Either we have now boundaries that we are comfortable keeping on good days and bad, or we don't.

That would be great, wouldn't it? If you could all stay in the same house for 6 more months? Give you time to work on a final solution.

Cat, I think so. It has been great being around H lately, he's back to his old self, but even moreso, because he met his deadlines and is in an easier part of his work cycle. He met with a consulting company here last week, which he hadn't been willing to do before. I've got to watch my half, too, to not start expecting again just because things are going well so far.

I talked to H last night, let him know that I don't plan to separate anymore. That I have been having second thoughts for some time now, but I didn't want to say anything until I felt sure. I want to be with him, but with the hostility, I had lost that anyway. But these last few months have been great, and I really appreciate the changes that he's been making, and that I am really grateful about the progress I've been making, too. That I know that there are still things that he wants me to work on, and working together, I feel really confident that we can do this.

He said that he still has concerns about my anger, that it hasn't been that long, and we haven't had any major stresses lately, and he doesn't know how I'd respond when we do. I told him understood his concern. I told him that I've been working on this, and I remembered when we had discussed this before with the MC. That he has a plan of what to do when he sees my anger in an unacceptable way. She suggested the same like in the LB book, to let the spouse know when that happens, and keep a log. He didn't see anything at that time to write down or comment about, but since he's triggering now, maybe there is something in the present he could tell me. He mentioned an incident, that I said that I was really angry and wanted to discuss something, and he said he didn't want to, and we ended the conversation. I didn't remember that, but I took his word for it, and asked him to let me know if and when he sees my anger in an unnacceptable way again.

I also said really briefly that I want to be really clear. I've thought long and hard for years now, and I'm not enthusiastic about going to California. That I've thought that if we could get along for a period of time, that I might feel differently, and I said that at the time. But that is kind of wishy washy, so I want to be more clear. I am not enthusiastic, and though I made guesses in the past about how I might have felt, I don't know for sure that I would be enthusiastic about California in the future.

We talked out some scenarios, like what about when his current position wraps up, and I offered to help him find work here and close by. I also brought up Orlando, which was a place both of us were enthusiastic about moving to years ago. It would be just a few hours' drive from our families down here, but far enough that they wouldn't be around a whole lot. He didn't like that idea, he said the market there is even smaller than here. I said that I think that we can work together and find something that we will both be happy with.

He said that he will think on what I said, but for now, if I don't move with him in June to Claifornia, that he will move on a divorce then, whether I want to or not.

Cat, he brought up about this being a "saving face" thing, too. That I am proposing that "he doesn't get what he wants, but I get what I want." I think if he and I can come up with a way to reframe this, then we'll be okay. The separation in January appealed to him because in that situation, I'm losing what I wanted, too.

Ouch. That just sounds so sad. That he is thinking in terms of hurting you to make himself feel better. I can't believe how honestly you guys have been talking, though! Wow, that is just so encouraging.

Cat, it doesn't feel so sad to me now, because I had already accepted that I had lost him to the hostility and the drinking. I got him back, these last few months, what a gift. I'm not saying that to point a finger. I lost a lot of who I was, am am happy to have regained that, too. Like healthwise, and kicking the depression. I'm really working to see this as "just for today," not attaching expectations to it, because this is where my thinking would get SO distorted, trying to keep something that was already gone.

I was so relieved that he isn't turning to hostility again. The same way that I thought that I might have been happy in California if we had a stable marriage, with a Rule of Protection, I think that he may be happy looking at other alternatives, too, if he's getting what he needs in our marriage. That's one of the things that I got from the call with Steve, too, that there is still a lot of room for growth here.

EO,

You don't "win" by not going to California. You restate how you know it's important, a passion of H's...so you grieve that loss with him.

And you don't go.

You affirm you understand his dream of California is important to him. And you state the truth...you guys have tried it out and neither time did it work out. And now, it's not in the best interest of your highest priority, your marriage, and your family, to keep doing the same thing and expect different results...though you do understand how much you want them to be different.

Confirm you heard and understand that H is saying he will divorce in June. Say you what you hear...as yours...that he wants you to lose something too...and ask him if that means he wants to double your loss?

For his losses are half the marriage...so they are yours, too. The Marriage loses. You get that. You know you have no control over his choices. And again, like you've said before, thank him for sharing his stuff right now.

Seems to me there's a parallel (and I think I mentioned this before) between his unyielding goal of So Cal and yours for your marriage. I believe really understanding both is the key here. It's not one or the other...somehow, something in the way you both pursue, the way you both focus, the ingredients there to create and maintain this passion...there's connection.

Sure is honesty. Deep intimacy. And respect.

You continue to inspire and rejuvenate me, EO. Thank you so much for being here and sharing who you are.

LA

LA, thanks for posting to me, today. You know I have a lot to thank you for, sharing your experience, strength, and hope with me and with other here. It is amazing to me to watch your influence in my life ripple out to others here. I had my Alanon anniversary at the end of October, and wow, to hear others repeat words that you shared with me, share their story of how my sharing impacted them where they were. Even when I didn't fully get the full benefit yet of what I was saying, learning through repetition, and not having had enough repetition yet. Like "We are new every day." "Perfectly made, whole and complete." When I read that in the Bible one day, it floored me! Impacted me how these are universal truths, were always there, will always be there, to reach us where we are. You amaze me, LA, how you bring that, act as His hands and feet.

I came here to begin with saying that I wanted to be a "soft place to fall" for my H, and how frustrated I was at how far short I fell. Complaining about what I was lacking from him, too. Not seeing that I needed to be a soft place to fall for myself, too, and how much I was neglecting myself. Thanks for challenging me to work on that, and explaining the connection, when I didn't see it.


Absolutely. I know this is huge to H, and I do grieve that with him.


This is important, too. In Between parent and Child, this is one of the things the author touches on again and again. That we do wish that it was different. Share that fantasy with them, for a moment, as fantasy, not as reality. That we can enjoy fantasy moments like that, together, without sacrificing the good that's in today make the fantasy a reality. It replaces that belief I used to have, that we *shouldn't want* things that we don't have. Sure we can think about having other things. Doesn't make us bad or wrong. Doesn't detract from how joyful reality is. It isn't either/or. We can "brainstorm with abandon", enjoy looking at those wishes together, and then together pick the things that do fit for us.


Very clarifying, I will ask that. And yes, again thank him for sharing his stuff. Like cat said, it struck me how he can share with me now, and how I can hear it, be present, instead of making it about me.


You did share that before, and I agree, a lot of parallel. Interesting to me, too, that he shared his fear of my anger, as I work through my fear of his anger. Addressing these together, as a team, that intimacy and respect. And thanks, LA, for the kind words! I am glad that I can inspire you, too! Those ripples

LA, I click on your posts when I see them in the left margin (and cat's and jayne's ;)). I'm trying to not being obtuse, but not get into the labels used, either, because there is still judgement I hear when I read those labels; I'm working on that. So, there was a post yesterday, and you described it as a day to day thing. I'm thinking food instead, in my case, again trying not to get into labels, though.

I would see it differently, as this was something that we tried to address without a working plan, and then when we found the willingness, we found plans that would work for us, for life. I'd like to think that we're not one slip away from disaster anymore. To use the "wrong turn" analogy, that we bought a talking GPS now, with the sound turned on. For food, that would be the scale, or clothes fitting snugly. For depression, that would be sluggishness in energy, unexplained sadness, going to bed early repeatedly. And then we have a fail-safe, too, and alarm that would go off if the GPS malfunctioned. My Alanon group, for example, would call me if I stopped showing up, not to judge, but to see if I'm okay, if I need help. Up to me, still, but I don't feel one slip away.

Thank you, EO, for your response.

I want to challenge you on my words...that you're hearing and reading...recognizing...from other sources. I believe you knew these words inside before you ever came to MB...and that you heard and did not hear...

because that's how it was for me, too.

Now you hear...and to risk sounding like the Sound of Music...what you heard before...your heart has been blessed...



I'll stop there. Still swells in me to read your response and know this release...how long...to hear inside of you what you already knew...confirmed and handed back to you.

Same for the knowing you're not one slip away from disaster...it's not here or annihilation...there's room in between...may that distance widen to what it really is and has been.

Thank you for bringing back the ripple for me, too...yes, I do forget...refuse to remember, maybe...maybe you've identified part of the wave pattern...you heard in me what was in you...and you heard it in others...what they heard in you which resonated in them...

About shouldn't wanting what we don't have...you know I hear you. Solving ourselves instead of knowing...fixing without actually being broken...curing...to protect...manage...control.

Equating love with control.

Now, understanding we love by choice, act by choice, and control isn't love...it's part of respect--and like anything else, to an extreme, is harmful.

Your insight on both fearing the other's anger...owning your own fear. Okay, so you fear. You know that triggers you into manage mode...and so you choose to breathe deeply and state that you fear, instead...call yourself aloud on your triggers...share it with your H.

DH believed that anger was the opposite of love. That my anger meant I didn't love him.

I feared my DH's indifference...believing that was the opposite of love...which is true...if you treat what you love indifferently, you'll feel indifferent. Only, his withdrawal, his silent treatments weren't done because he felt too little...because he felt too much.

That's what he said. And feeling angry was bad, wrong. Good to know. So I knew when I acted out my anger one of the consequences was that my DH felt fear, the annihilation, the end of and the judgment. And that stating my anger didn't change too much for him...for he feared the anger...sure did for me.

Then it did for him...to understand fear was behind my anger, too. That I feared loss of our marriage, loss of him...loss of loving feelings. When he permitted me my anger (as mine), then he began to permit his anger as his...okay to feel anger...not end of, not disaster, either...all things come to pass. Information. Good to know.

Doesn't take solving at all...takes further understanding, today...and aware the old fears are made new again...we trigger...just as we trigger to love and joy, gratitude and despair. Gonna happen. Don't have to react to it.



Thanks for the tip about labels...timely and received. When in crisis, we can get lost...when we make ourselves aware of what is crisis and what is not...then we know when not to get in the car.



(((((EO)))))((((Jayners))))(((Catperson)))))

You enhance my life through your presence. Thank you.

LA

Absolutely, LA, this was ALL stuff that I heard before. I didn't want to believe that I could do this myself. I wanted to think that this was for my H to do for me. To accept me, so I'd accept myself. I wanted him to continue to be my White Knight, my rescuer, in this, to fix my sadness. Because I trusted in him, because he HAD fixed it before, when we we dating, all those wonderful in-love chemicals Things still went wrong, but nothing bothered me. I didn't trust in me, discounted all the times I picked myself up by my bootstraps. Didn't see what I wasn't ready to see.

Thank goodness, I found that I didn't have to trust me. I could start with trusting God. Whew! And trusting you, who beleibeved in me. Until I could stay confident believing in myself again.

That control thing, I didn't even understand how much my need for control stifled my H. But I found that trust that H has a Higher Power. My FOO, too, all safe. Don't need me interfering LOL. I can just cheer them on, knowing they are in good hands!


LA, thanks for sharing this! So true!


Yes, that "99% of issues are not to be solved, but understood."



My H says that my anger means that I don't accept him for who he is. Used to trigger defensiveness in me, the DJ. It took me a long time to listen and repeat *without fear* and add my filter, that accepting and approving are two different things. That I can adore the person and dislike the action at the same time. I don't know if I convey that here, how awesome I've always thought my H was. That's never wavered. Still surprised myself, tickled myself, when I took the Love Bank Inventory before the session with Steve and marked most of them, like I am happy when my spouse walks into the room, a 3 for agree strongly.


And I totally feared my H's indifference, too. Internalized that as a sign that he saw me as "less than." When like you said, it was moreso because my anger was taken by him as lack of acceptance, too painful. Whether I was DJing or not judging. This is in that Gaslighting book, too, that once someone has AOed, even when they stop, that fear stays.


Thanks, LA. I'm glad we're still here growing, too.

And yes, let's not get in THAT car! It might take us to Wendy's for Twisted Frosties, again! How did that happen LOL. You stengthen my life, too, thanks so much for that. And ((((BIG HUGS)))) all around!

I'm not getting my hopes up, just wanted to share, I'm happy that my H is even discussing these things with me. H sent out some happy holidays emails yesterday, and he got a lot of responses. One was from a good friend he worked with in California for a few years when he was doing consulting work out there. This guy moved with his family to work at this same company's headquartes, in North Florida. His family is so happy there, and H says he thinks that he'd like it there.

It's probably just one of those what-if things we discuss and drop. But it would be such a win-win. H has already proven himself with this company, and they love his work. They keep offering him the number two position, with the top guy wanting to retire. The town has the same special high school program that DD12 is planning to go to down here, and the cost of living is so much lower. We have a lot of family friends from down here that we keep in touch with.

Of course I still hope we stay down here, but it's so cool to me that H is thinking about these things and sharing them.

I hesitate to post. I always learn something from you all when I do, but I also feel like it's some same-old same-old, too.

Our friend's daughter has stayed with us a few days, because H is working from home this week, and our friend was working. Our friend's XW, also our very close friend, is out of town for the holidays. H and our friend were planning to go out the two of them this evening. Last night, H asks me if I would drive the daughter home after they go out and go home. So that the friend can have a few drinks without having to worry about picking up his daughter after that. I said yes, I can do that, but felt my anger rising.

I thought for a minute, why am I angry? I sorted out that I don't want to drive the daughter home; that I think our friend can think through for himself what he wants to do, how he wants to get his daughter home. I realized that I was also feeling angry at myself for being afraid to say "no" to my H. Doesn't fit anymore. I'm not living in fear anymore. I was helping H in the kitchen, and I told him, you know what, I caught myself feeling angry, because I don't want to drive the daughter home. So I'm not going to drive her.

H got angry, but was quiet with it. I asked him why he is angry, and he snarled, "Because you just reminded me what I am married to. It's okay, when I'm gone I can do what I want." Wow, that just totally cut me to the core. We've been getting along so well, and I hadn't had my hopper up. I wasn't thinking from a place of detachment. I had thought that I hadn't built up expectations again. I have still been reminding myself, "this is just for today, tomorrow may be very different." I didn't expect to feel reactive like that. I started to cry, silently, facing away so he couldn't see how he'd hurt me. I think this was his intent. All I could say was Ouch, before my voice cracked, so I didn't say anything else.

I just wanted to get outside. The kids were just walking back in the door from outside, and I didn't want them to see me crying. This was their vacation day to have fun with their friends, not about the dysfunction in our house. I was feeling ashamed for letting this get to me so deeply. For not having a happy home for them to come in to. I could hear them laughing, and felt like a failure, that the laughter wouldn't last long in our house. I was looking for the dog leash so I could take our dog for a walk and calm down. But I realized that I was beyond that, and told H to have dinner without me, that I was going out for a while.

I talked to a friend on the phone, and she reminded me to take care of myself, so I had a bite to eat, went to the gym, went to a meeting, and went to her house. I felt a lot more centered. That I get it, H felt that I was judging him, it hurt, and he wanted to hurt back. We talked in the morning, and I shared my O&H, that I have been working hard to respect him, to see him for who he is today, instead of holding on to past resentment. That if he didn't like that I declined, that he could tell me that calmly and repsectfully. That I know that he knew that his words would hurt me, and he said them anyway. That this was not our agreement, to be caring for wach other, and when we disagree, to do that respectfully.

He was still mad at first. He said that he felt judged and controlled. He said that I told him that I was perfectly fine with him meeting a friend to go out to drink, but then I didn't do this one thing so that he could do that. That he is going to cancel because he thinks I am going to call the kid's mom and tell her.

I clarified that I don't like it when he goes out to drink. That I am not controlling what he does, but that I don't want to make myself part of it, either. That I understand that he does not want to be married to me. That I understand that his actions came from that, to demonstrate that he does not care for me. I told him that was not our agreement, that he told me that I could count on him to tell me when he doesn't like something, instead of lashing out at me.

He apologized, but I still feel sad, like I lost something yesterday. I am trying to see this as a growth opportunity, a reminder that that hopper is meant to stay up, not to come down.

ears_open,

I don't think I've posted to you before, but I have have been reading along. I'm sorry your husband was such a [censored] to you. But I just wanted to point something out, because I think if you can laugh at someone, it's better to do that than to cry.


You realize how ridiculous this is, don't you? When he's gone, he can do what he wants? Not when what he wants is to task you with activities that make his life easier! Just exactly how did he think being separated would help him with transporting daughter vs. guys' drinking night conflict? That's the magical thinking of a teenager!

curious, thanks for posting to me, and for the perspective. Yes, much better to laugh, knowing that these circumstance are not powerful enough to take away the huge joy in our lives!

I really really really was thinking that we were done with the hard part. Especially talking to Steve, it makes so much sense that we could fill each others' love banks back up and ride off into the sunset together, and the separation talk would be a distant memory. That H had talked about divorce last week, but he has already turned the corner, and just hasn't realized it yet.

We see that so much on the boards, that the spouse on the board is still frustrated, because they don't know that their changes had been contagious and had taken root in their spouses already. Then they come back a year later, like BTE or W8ing, and post about how cool everything has worked out.

I think I still needed practice with letting go of the response.

I'm sorry, ears. Every time I read about your H, I think of my prototypical neanderthal man - all those male hormones, used up in one body. Protect self, fight for what I want, expect others to respect and obey me, lead the clan, get what I want because I'm the MAN, by god. Just like my dad.

When he was dying, he told us that he knew we all hated his wife (the evil stepmother), but that he needed someone to take care of him and be all about him (in so many words). He was cognizant enough to realize it, to realize what he had thrown away by choosing to protect and defend her and her hideous ways, over maintaining a good relationship with us. He was asking us to forgive him, I think.

I think if your H had one of those women, who to the core just wants to be the woman for her man, and get all her worth from that, he'd be on cloud nine. Actually, I think most men would be. But the rest of them have to compromise so that the wife can live like a human being, too.

I think it was your lot in life to run across one of those neanderthals who needs it to be all about them. Incompatible because you need - and deserve - more.

I can't imagine you going through life regretting this man you let go because you wouldn't meld to his wishes. I think you will start a new course, a better one, where you are cherished, too.

Thanks for being here, cat. I was so really mad at myself for opening myself up to this again. I was really getting it, the living as an observer instead of just the participant. Reminding myself this is all just a bonus, a gift, and it can be taeken away at any moment. Like you with the paint that day. I thought that I had learned the lesson. To totally let go of the response.

But I'm human, and we slip. The 3 As - Awareness, Acceptance, Action. The action is where we make our amends and keep going.

But yesterday, I was still mad. I realized why I'm mad. I don't like this deal, let's see until June. I want my H to be committed to me. And he's not. I'm trying to prove myself to him, trying to fill his love bank. Without it even seeming very reasoanble that he IS going to feel differently in June. It's like a denial, not wanting to see what is. Even though I have, before.

I am the danger to this marriage, too. I know this. This isn't the marriage that I want. We are still getting in lots of UA time, but it's a big love buster this wait-and-see thing, instead of really committing. This is not what I want. I've lived the ambivalence. Came to a decision. Then circumstances changed, and I made a different one. Understandable that H would still be ambivalent for a time.

I think that I settled without a good long-range plan. Before we really got in place some good long-term plans, like coaching with Steve, or ongoing MC or IC for H, while we're still establishing these new patterns of negotiating instead of LBing.



I'm so sorry, cat. Did yopu find forgiveness for him?


From what he and I have discussed, I think that he still thinks that he DOES have one of those women. That he has earned his way back to that "king" spot, and is waiting in a patient way for me to see that. And that if he's mistaken about that, then he still has his out. He's already told his family that *I'm* leaving *him*, so he's not the bad guy.

H's two brothers, my dad, and my uncle married or remarried women from overseas, who were raised this way, to be satisfied with what they get, and get the rest of their needs met elsewhere. And my mom married a man from that kind of culture, too, where she puts him on a pedestal instead of respecting him as someone who can come to joint agreements with her. To each their own. I tried it, and it didn't work for me. I don't need to try that again and again.

I reread Mortarman's Roles of Husbands and Wives thread the last few days, and found a lot of relevant things. This really stood out


It helps me understand and put into perspective why sacrificing instead of finding the joint agreement has been so hard on my marriage. Helps me to undersatnd the resentment that it creates. I went into the marriage with the beleif that we would both take extraordinary care of each other, like it describes here on MB. That doesn't work one way. Making MORE scarifices on my side can't make up for the lack of his willingness to find joint solutions. It was a losing proposition from the beginning. I am powerless to "even the score" on my own. It *necessitates* joint agreement. There is no substitution for this. I can't "denial" my way out of that.


I can see that, that this was an issue that I needed to work through. I was the oldest in my family, and liked going without from time to time so that they could have. It made me feel grateful, that I had *so* much that I could share so much. "To whom much is given, much is expected." So expecting alot from myself helped my self-esteem, validated that I do have a lot of gifts to be grateful for.

I shared how I did this with my friends, too, offered to have their kids over all the time, and then felt so validated that my friends found me this trustworthy. But over time, the friends who just needed a hand up got back on their feet, and we help each other out, not one-sided. And the others we aren't close anymore, because friendships like that are unsustainable.


I don't see that anymore, either, cat, just pining away for what's not to be. I'm going to be O&H with H what I need here, and if he's not in for that, it will be obvious.

ears, how was your Christmas?

I'm just catching up...and I gotta say..."WOW!" Have you shared these terrific statements with H? You didn't agree to the wait and see...that's his plan, not yours. You're all-in for your marriage. Now serving. No waiting.

That's wonderful...so tell me...why are you in that plan that you aren't in? He's waiting and seeing...that's his, EO...put it down, it's not yours.

Stop making it more than his...his choices are his. He could have NOT told you about the June internal deadline...and you wouldn't be in the plan...still could have been his plan...or threat...or wish...all his, all the time.

You were informed, doesn't mean you are on-board with it. And if you did "agree" to wait...to do/not do which means you're part of the deadline...then change your agreement. You're trying to get your attention...you have permission to not hold yourself to bad agreements...because...if you didn't really agree to something, then you lied. You own and amend.



Free yourself from his deadline...it's not yours. Yes, you wish he would act differently...and I gotta tell you from my own experience...back in the dark days four years ago...we'd make these agreements...three more months, then re-evaluate...and remember when those months were up, more passed, before we remembered to re-evaluate? When the two-year-trial was up and I asked him (remembered from someone posting on MB) if he wanted to stay married? And we looked surprised and laughed...those deadlines...to remind us we choose everyday, in reality, each other.

Sounds to me like you're taking his own internal stuff as him waiting to choose you in June...instead of him choosing, right now, each day, you...and he DOES...you're married.



Very reasonable, understandable feelings from where you choose to dwell in your mind...change the location of your thoughts dwelling, not your house.


Maybe I'm fanatical or overboard, but indulging in this place gives you feelings of resentment, feelings of superiority, less respect for your H as the real person he is...and this may well be his self-image...or yours of him only...the more you dwell in out-thinking your partner, boxing him correctly...the more you're dwelling in fear-based crap instead of acting from love...and you're crossing your own boundaries, even though it may feel better, lessen your fear--which you upped by participating in what wasn't yours to begin with.

Wanna stop the loop, the cycle? Then stop nailing down what isn't yours, isn't real and you don't know. He fears. He reacts to his fear. Because he does your marriage may or may not be in jeopardy come June...how 'bout now? Whose fear are you really reacting to right now, with these predictions, guesses and assumptions? Don't go there. There is dangerous.

Was for my marriage. False self-soothing is as harmful as soothing others to change how they feel, period.


Gotta call you on this..."I went into the marriage with the belief that we would both take extraordinary care of each other". I think you had different expectations back then...and now, you do have these expectations...this goal for yourself. And I don't think dwelling on June is EC, meets the rule of protection, not part of PORH. What do you think?

I love how you do realize you cannot control another into being happy. Only yourself.

Mind your own side of POJA...check yourself...his choices are NOT in POJA...they remain his...and tell me, given his history of agreeing without really agreeing...what makes you think June deadline is so real? Each year I've known you on these boards, there's been a deadline, until I think it's a habitual state he puts himself in as motivation, something...and I desperately want you to break this habit.

Don't live in it. It's not real. Not today. Has become a life routine. There's cruelty in that. Stop being cruel to yourself and your marriage.

I hope you can see better how all your villagers are at work here...ask yourself...are you really all-in? At peace and fully present now? Because going from observer/judge to participant/partner is scary as all get out...and you're doing that, anyway.

LA

I was away for vacation, very spotty internet access. We went on vacation to Orlando with two other families.

Thanks, cat and LA for posting. LA, you really got me thinking there! Thanks, I needed that! In a nutshell, I was filtering going and then staying as flip-flopping. But then when I thought it through, no, both are to protect the marriage. So I can stay with both feet, knowing that when circumstances change, as they do, my actions may also change. I'm commiting to my H, not to being mistreated. Staying in the same house no matter what.

I'm glad that I had the opportunity to think that through, because we've had some challenges. H has been drinking heavy again, being critical of me, and travelling starting next week. I had my reactivity, too, stuffing it down, afraid to "rock the boat". No, staying isn't about stuffing down to avoid acknowledging the conflict there. Boundary enforcement is to protect myself from the downsides of the conflict. I can take good care of myself in the present.

Happy New Year, too!