Some background. Married for 14 years. 4 kids (3, 5, 7, 9). Been separated because of my job for about 1 year. I visit every weekend and holidays and have been working from here on Fridays lately.

She started an affair about August. I found out early November. Tried unsuccessfully to get her to go NC with OM (who is married, has 2 kids, and is a truck driver so is never home). The affair is not physical (yet) because they live 2000 miles apart, but being a truck driver, he could get a route out here (though his company isn't out this way much).

After finding out, and trying unsuccessfully to get her to recommit, she finally admitted that she didn't love me, would've left me if it weren't for the kids, and was in love with him (I know, same old story). I tried plan A, but hadn't exposed yet becasue the main person I need to expose to (his wife) and he were in Mexico when I first started reading this site and the books. And then I didn't want to do it right before the holidays (I know, I'm a sap). So, the day after Christmas, my wife and I were playing on an online game that we play on (and also where she met him). I made a sniping comment about him, and she asked me to be nice. The reason I was pretty upset was I'd voice recorded her conversation in the car earlier where she was planning phone sex with him again, saying things like "I get to decide what I wear out of the house, but you can tell me what to wear in the bedroom" and "Wait until Sunday" (which is when I return to my apartment). Unfortunatly, I made a big love buster, first in the sniping comment (although it was mainly just a joke), and then when I told her "I'll be nice when you stop flirting with him." That basically started a chain reaction that ended with him convinced that I was going to tell his wife (I didn't really threaten it, but when he asked me if I was planning to, I didn't deny it), and she said that she broke things off with him so that I wouldn't do that. And then she went to the library to check out books on how to get divorced in our state.

Today I checked her phone records and found out that she is still very much in contact with him. 3 hours on the phone later that night after she said she was done with both of us, most of the day texting the next day, and not very subtly texting someone today (she said her mom, and got upset when I asked who it was, although I'm sure it was him). I can't verify who she texted until tomorrow afternoon. I even said (and I'm sure this was probably a mistake, too. I'm not too rational these days) that I'd promise not to call his wife if she'd be honest with me about if she were talking to him. She didn't take the opportunity to come clean, though, so I won't feel too bad about exposing.

So then a few questions: First, where does this idea of exposure come from? I haven't read yet in either "Surviving and Affair" or "His Needs, Her Needs" (though I'm not done with either) that it's a good idea. Both advocate not doing anything that would be a Love Buster. And it seems to me that since she's telling me that she will definitely divorce me if I call her, that it'd be a pretty big Love Buster to expose.

Second, I guess, is should I still go ahead and expose the affair to his wife (who will most likely kick him out and make it easier for him to be with my wife), and to all of the other people that I'd planned (OM's parents, WW's mom and sisters, OM's trucking company, friends on the game we play, and maybe even WW's work, though getting either of them fired is something I'd not want to do if I can help it). Also, I though about putting a block on her phone for his cell phone (although she'd probably just go buy a prepaid, she makes her own money so I can't do anything about that), blocking her from the game they sometimes play together, and even changing the passwords on her email accounts (although I'd rather be able to monitor the accounts that she doesn't know I have the passwords to rather than have her get new accounts that I don't know about).

I have been doing Plan A for a little while now, and we actually had a pretty good day today. I'd hate to push her into a definite divorce when it seems from one perspective that we're moving toward reconciliation. She knows she can't be with this guy forever. She knows that the affair will probably die out on its own. And I'm almost numb enough to it that I could probably eventually ignore it until it does. I know those are all the wrong answers, at least according to the advice on this site. I've gotten plenty of other contradictory and conflicting advice from books, websites, etc. I wish there were stats on what worked and what didn't. Obviously there's no catch-all solution and different people, different types of affairs, and different situations are all going to have factors that change things.

So...long distance marriage with no love on her end, long distance affair who she loves but knows that it probably wouldn't work out with in the long run, a wife who's...martyr enough to divorce me just because I call his wife (and even though there's maybe a 1% chance she wouldn't, I'm 100% sure she would if I got him fired, as he has 2 kids to support and no real skills. And I know his problems aren't really my problem, but if he weren't having an affair with my wife, he's the kind of person I'd feel bad for, and I don't want to make his family pay for what he's doing).

Should I expose and move to plan B? Stay in plan A and hope that she eventually gets worn out enough with keeping things (not all that) secret and does kill the affair? Expose and stay in plan A? Or just expect that we're going to plan D whether I want to or not? Part of me wants to go on total lockdown and just forcibly cut off all communication between them (though I know that's impossible since I'm not here most days, and I can't keep them from buying prepaid cells, and finding some way to bypass my block on the game they play, etc.) and expose to everyone including the mailman and the next door neighbor's dog. Part of me thinks that the last shred of a chance I have left is to just stay in plan A no matter how much it hurts (because no matter how much it hurts now, a divorce would hurt more).

I'm pretty sure I know what advice I'm likely to get here. But why? What does exposing gain me, if she's already made it clear that exposing = divorce, and not exposing = at least a small chance of reconciliation? Maybe I just need to face reality and assume that divorce is probably inevitable at this point (I know I'm walking in a minefield and even the question "who were you texting?" is enough to ruin an otherwise good day, even though I tried not to ask it in an accusatory way). Maybe I should just cut my losses and start looking for a new relationship. I'm not even happy in the state that I live in, having moved here for her, and having taken a long distance job to keep my family fed when there was no work near home. I just don't want to leave my kids. I wish I knew what would save our marriage at this point. I just can't help thinking that we're beyond saving.

Actually, it is the reverse, because the ongoing affair is more likely to cause your divorce. You are more likely to get divorced if you DON'T expose because affairs thrive on secrecy. You are doing nothing more than ENABLING your wife's affair - at the expense of your own marriage.

Your wife makes that threat to manipulate you into protecting her affair. She knows that exposure is ruinous. It is like an alcoholic threatening to divorce you if you take away his car keys. But his continued drunk driving is more likely to cause divorce when he is imprisoned for drunk driving. It would be irrational to think that giving her the car keys would save your marriage, but that is what you are doing by keeping her dirty little secret. You are ENABLING the affair.

Not exposing helps the affair THRIVE and the longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. Your marriage can survive the temporary anger from exposure, but it can't survive an affair.

Exposure is like bringing in a crowd of people into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. No one likes to get high when people are watching. It ruins the high! It is the exact same with affairs. It ruins all the fun when others are watching.

The idea of exposure comes from DR HARLEY. He has recommended it on the weekend forum, in his radio show and in counseling. Steve Harley has been recommending it for years in his practice.



Dr. Harley on telling children:

Skane, the biggest problem I see here is your FEAR of your wife and your belief in her fogbabble.

For some reason, you have interpreted plan A to mean that you avoid making her mad AT ALL COSTS. You are in Plan APPEASEMENT, not plan A. You are probably not going to make it if you are so fearful of your wife's anger that you cannot even do very simple things to save your marriage.

Is she bigger than you? Does she beat you? Is this why you are so terrified of making her mad?

I'm curious, which love buster do you think exposure would be?
Just because something makes a spouse angry, that does not mean it is a love buster.

Hi Skane, as a former exposure-skeptic, I'd say expose too, calmly and clearly, stating that the reason you are doing so is to recover your wife and M. I would certainly tell the OM's wife as well as family, friends and colleagues.

My WH threatened D on me several times if I exposed but so far he hasn't actually asked for one (but we're not out of the woods yet). I think you are overestimating your capacity to ride the storm of an A with all the disrespect and hurt that would bring. Better for the A to be self-destruct when you are protected to some extent in Plan B. It's not easy though if you are not living at home at the moment and there are 4 small children involved. Could you move closer to home?

Oh, by the way...you need to quit your job and get home. Get another job close to home. It is obvious that she needs you there, and you cannot Plan A her and meet her needs showing up every once in awhile.

In order to save this marriage, you need to be in the marriage!

Mortarman is right! If you want to save your marriage, then you need to act married. The way you live is an INVITATION TO ADULTERY.

I know. I really have been trying to get a new job down here. I even begged my previous boss for my old job back. But there are literally no jobs that I can do that I am qualified for down here. I even told my contract company that I need to find a job down here. I will try more aggressively. I really do want to come back down here. I just hope it's not too late.

Oh, and I'm not afraid of my wife physically. I am afraid of her determination and stubbornness. She is the "cut off my nose to spite my face" type, and if she says she's going to divorce me, she most likely will. I guess there's really nothing to lose in exposre, though, so I will try very hard to overcome my fear of losing her to try to keep her.

Oh good grief, almost every BH says this same thing and it never comes true. And if she divorces you because you wouldn't help her hide her affair, then what have you lost? Are you saying it is better to enable her affair so you can keep her? C'mon. That makes no sense.

Ok. I am gearing up to do my exposure tonight. I have OMW's phone number, his parents' names in case she won't call him (some advice here? Should I ask her to call them since she knows them, or do it myself?) I am going to call WW's mom, even though she already knows, because I'm sure she doesn't know everything especially about the divorce threats. And I'm going to call WW's sisters, and tell some of their mutual online friends.

As soon as I get home, I'll start making my calls. And prepare for the avalanche.

Wish me luck. I am knotted up inside like a ball of rubberbands right now just thinking about it.

Should I also have his phone number blocked from her phone and/or restrict her internet access? My only concern there being that with her using her own phone, I can monitor their calls/texts. If I block his phone and she gets a prepaid cell, I won't be able to track their conversations.

All exposures should be done BY YOU without your wife's knowledge.

I just re-read my question and I'm not sure if it came across as I meant it (though maybe it did). I was going to see if OMW would call OM's parents. Not involve my wife at all. Technically, she's also been betrayed, so shouldn't I encourage her to expose his affair to anyone she knows who might be an influence on him? His parents, other family members, etc? I can call them if I need to. I just didn't know if maybe it'd mean more if his wife was asking them for help, rather than some total stranger.

I gotcha! Personally, I would call them myself. She may not want to do it and it would have much more OOOMPH! coming from you.

Whether you ask or not, OMW should expose just as you are.

If I was her, I'd notify as many of your wife's parents, friends, and co-workers as I could find.

She wasn't technically betrayed. She's every bit as betrayed as you are, and your wife is just another lousy cheater, just like OM. You just found out about yours first.

You might tell your wife to watch her back. Not all BSs are pushovers.

Alrighty. I'll do that then. I may just mention to OMW that she might want to call whoever she can, too. Just for whatever help we can get.

I am really hoping that she wants to work things out with him. If she doesn't, I'm reasonably sure that WW will file for divorce pretty quickly. I hope that's not the case, but at least it's better than being trapped in the middle between "does she want to work things out" and "does she want to leave me."

By the way, is anyone familiar with a book called "When Good People Have Affairs"? It's what she's reading. From what I saw of it, it's much more coddling to the WS, and there's plenty in it that they can decide to interperet as "well, I'm just not supposed to be with this person."

Funny thing is, my wife is (or at least was) a fairly religious person. I keep wanting to say "I've found this great book on marriage and divorce" and then shove her own bible into her hands. Of course, me being a non-believer, it'd probably just tick her off even more. But when I'm feeling bitter and vindictive (unfortunately way more than I'd like, but at least mostly I keep it in check), I keep coming up with ideas that if someone else did them they'd be nice, but if I did them, they'd be petty and spiteful.

So here's my situation now. Back over New Years weekend, I caught her going on kamasutra and sexy lingeree sites and sending stuff to him on IM. So I finally got up the nerve to expose to OMW. Unfortunately, all weekend when I called her she never answered. In fact I tried periodically over the next 2 weeks with no luck. Finally the night before my 14th anniversary, I caught my wife having phonesex with him, and the next day I did what I hadn't really wanted to do and left a message on her answering machine to call me. He is a trucker and was out for a few weeks so I figured it'd be safe, but apparently he checks their machine from the road, and he told WW that I'd tried to call her. So they decided that to protect his family, they'd break it off. But she also said that she was still divorcing me, regardless of whether she would be with him or not. She then eventually figured out why I called his wife, and went and found all the spy stuff I'd put on her computer. So now I have no way to monitor what she does online. And she had her phone transferred to her mom's plan (her mom knows about the affair and does not approve. I'm not sure she realizes that she just enabled her daughter to continue. She thought she was protecting WW from my spying. I'll call her today to let her know.) I still haven't managed to get ahold of OMW. And of course WW claims that the only way we have even a tiny chance is if I enable her affair by not calling. I'm not buying it, and I'm not holding my breath on the whole "we're done" thing. But unfortunately I've now bungled the exposure. She's quit the game that they used to play together, so telling her friends won't help at this point. I've already talked to her mom several times to let her know what's going on, and that her daughter lied to her about it being over with him. I'm not sure why I can't get ahold of OMW. I've tried at all hours, from about 6am to 11pm. And until I can get a digital recorder in her car, I have no way of verifying what I know to still be going on.

If after 2 months of trying to get them to call it off, they still stubbornly continue their infidelity, even after I've done my best so far to expose the affair, and she's still talking about divorce, should I be preparing myself for the worst? I am still trying to find a job that will let me move back in with my family, but there's nothing in my area. Yesterday she told our kids that we're getting a divorce. I was going to expose to them today when I had them. I think she realized that and tried to beat me to it. I'm still working Plan A as best I can. But it's hard to long distance, and especially with her still actively involved with him so blatantly. And since her biggest emotional need is conversation and she's still not talking to me much, it's really hard to do much of anything.

One thing I need to know, if there's anyone with experience with this, is that according to the IL divorce laws I read, in order for her to file for divorce, we have to have been living separately for 2 continuous years. Is there any other cause that she could file for if I haven't done anything to her? And does it count as "continuous" if for the past year I've been living with her and the kids on weekends, holidays, and occasionally on Fridays? Any other words of wisdom or encouragement?

Thanks

Skane, that is odd that you can't reach the OMW. Are you sure you have the right #? Has someone else tried calling? Have you been disguising your#? The OM may have told his wife that you are some crazed bill jealous husband and to NOT answer the phone. Perhaps you could send her a certified letter? CAn you look up any relatives in the same town and call them?

You might want to tell your kids before your wife does. If you don't tell them the truth and give them moral guidance, SHE WILL.

Skane

I live in Illinois so I am familiar with the seperation issue. If you and your spouse agree the 2 years can be cut down to 6 months.

Why wait for her to file?? File first to protect you and the kids...then see how things play out.

Tell your kids!!!! Don't embelish, simple facts. My kids had been snowed by my W for awhile....the aftermath sucks!! I know the kids will be angry at first....mine were and still are mad at both of us.

Get your kids in counseling ASAP!!! You set it up not your W.

Document, document, document!!! Keep a journal....do it online so it cannot be destroyed!!

Yeah, I know I've got the right number. The answering machine has their names. And he got the message remotely. I was considering the possibility that she's already left him, and the whole "my wife can't find out" story that he's feeding my WW is just a smokescreen to keep from having to commit to her. And I had considered the possibility as you said that he told her to screen all their calls and not take any from my number. So next time I'll try from work. It's a different area code altogether.

I have his and her parents' names but haven't been able to find phone numbers yet.

And she thinks it has to be 2 years, so I'm using that to my advantage while I still want to try to work things out. If I don't, then I'll file. Does the separation have to be continuous, though? Since I've been living at home on the weekends, does it count as us being separated for the whole year? Or would I have to stop living there on the weekends for the clock to start, so to speak? I know I could file for adultery today. But I don't want her to find out she could file for irreconcilable differences today, at least not while I'm still trying to break up the A and work on Plan A.

I don't remember adultery being on the list. I had irreconcilable/mental cruelty.....if your journal is good ....mental cruelty should be easy.

I think I read you have a travelling job??
Get home!

I have NEVER left my house for more the 4 days....and that was a solo vacation back in sept to visit family.

Read up on the 6 montht thing but if I rememeber correctly it is just a signature thing.

Nothing wrong with legal "protection". Remember....you are NOT divorced until all the "Is" are dotted and "Ts" are crossed.