My Christmas Update:

I can’t tell you how happy I was last night as I lay in bed and watched the time tick over to midnight. Christmas was over and I truly felt relieved. It almost wasn’t as bad as I had expected it to be but on some levels, much much worse.

My modified “Why Does He Do That” Plan B will now be called Plan C for controlled. I realize I cannot cut off my WH dry as he escalates in his attempts to control me and actually gets more threatening. Therefore I am available when he calls and have people with me when I see him and record all conversations for my protection on my trusty MP3 recorder watch. Mum said I remind her of DickTracey!

On Tuesday afternoon WH sent me a message saying the mirror on my car had not been repaired properly and it was typical of me to accept such bad repairs. He had been into my secure work car park to inspect it and had left the wiper up to show me that he’d been there. I sent a message back saying they can’t fit me in until after Christmas and I was not happy with it. I got one more toxic message but didn’t hear from him much after that.

I went into work for a few hours on Christmas Eve and left at lunchtime. He called me a couple of times still threatening to send an email around to my friends and family in an attempt to hurt me. It was a filthy email sent to him by someone trying to discredit me and have him dump me before Christmas. Someone’s sick idea of a joke but it really stirred up WH on Monday. I recorded all of his conversations/threats to me and kept trying to placate him and diffuse the situation as best I could.

In the afternoon I finished off the photoframes for his family members of the kids and wrapped his photo album with pictures of the kids. They also gave him a book called I Love You Daddy with a couple of letters from the kids to him in there and a pendent with their names engraved.

I picked the kids up from school at 4pm and took them to the children’s Christmas Eve church service. DD wanted to call daddy on the way so we sent him a message and he called the kids and had a lovely chat about seeing them on Christmas Day etc.

I sent him a couple of photos of the kids on the mobile from the service etc.

My sister and parents and the kids and I came home from church and opened the presents with the kids. It was quiet, but a lovely way to spend the evening.

I did go to bed sad without my H and missing him so much.

Christmas Day, got up with kids and played with their gifts before heading to mum and dad’s at 11am. My sister arrived and we all made cookies. Gave the kids lunch and played. WH came to pick up the kids at 1pm.

He rang the doorbell and walked back to the car. I took the kids out and explained the bag of presents and cream for DS’s eczema etc.


There is too much to write. It’s now Monday 29th December so I will document the rest in point form. You will not believe most of it and I’m still numb…

* WH does not talk to me at all when he collects kids
* WH rings me within 3 minutes of leaving that he left presents at the front door
* I race out front of mum and dad’s, nothing
* My sister and I drive to my house to find the 2/3 presents that the kids and I made for him on the step, unopened
* I call him in tears and leave a message saying they were from the kids
* I call his mother in tears saying they are on their way and WH is an a-hole
* She speaks to my dad, said she is worried about me
* I call her and ask her to give the kids the best Christmas ever
* I call at 7pm to say good night to kids, no answer
* I call WH’s brother’s phone and speak to kids
* WH calls 45 minutes later, says I have ruined Christmas etc
* My parents listened to the whole conversation
* He was mad at everything, blames me for everything over 6 months
* My dad talks to him and asks him to be calm for kids
* WH says its too late
* Accuses me of having an affair
* He got an email from someone saying he was having one with me
* Says he’s going to send it everywhere
* Dad and I beg him not to ruin my job, I have never been unfaithful
* Calls back 20 minutes later and says he is bringing the kids back
* No sleepover? After all his fuss?
* Didn’t know where he would drop kids, we called WH’s brother
* WH’s brother said its all my fault too
* Dad spoke to him asked him to calm WH down
* Mum and I go home to wait for kids
* WH arrives and kids are asleep (its 10pm)
* Puts them in bed, brings in presents
* Gives me his wedding ring
* Hugs me for the longest time then leaves
* No talking
* I go to bed happy that children are home and that WH seems calm
* Get up and play with kids, having best time ever
* My sister calls at lunchtime and so does IM
* WH is sending message to everyone saying my wife, 2M2L who works at x is having an affair with MK and I have been told to expose this affair and find out who MK is so that I can put an end to it and save my M for my wife and 2 beautiful children
* Have I shocked you yet?
* He sent the message to everyone on my last 3 phone bills
* Clients, friends, colleagues, beautician, pizza shop, wrong numbers etc
* My phone is busy fielding calls
* I am desperately trying to stop him
* My sister calls him and tries to plead with him to stop
* He said now I know what it feels like and he will not stop until I lose my job and he does not care if he ends up in jail
* I pack hurriedly and move in with my parents
* We try to contact him and reason
* No more messages that night
* Next day they start again – threatens to post emails on website, facebook and myspace
* Internet never updates
* We ask his mother and brother for help, both refuse
* Mum, dad, kids and I all jump in car and head to his mum’s place
* Get there in 1 hour
* WH’s brother asks us in, we explain we are there in peace to try and resolve this
* WH’s brother takes kids to separate room
* WH’s mother stands over me, waves hands and viciously attacks me with words – you are a bad mother, you shut-up, you are a liar etc etc etc
* She heard DD on the phone when I left her a message saying I needed her help to calm WH down and decided that I was a bad mother to involve a 3 year old with information
* WHAT???
* My parents were there during the phone call too and explained that DD was running in and out of room and anyway, WHAT???
* She kept abusing me and my mother and would only listen to my dad
* Dad thought she would hit me too
* WH’s mother used to drag WH’s dad around by the hair as she screamed at him and this is the memories that WH has of marriage. I will never again question where WH learned his narcissim
* She also told my mum she was a bad mother and that she had raised 3 boys and was a good mother
* WH called and I said I was with his mum and brother and he went off tap
* His brother grabbed the phone and took it outside to talk to him
* We decided to leave, grabbed kids
* Asked them to get WH mental help
* His mum told me I needed it
* WH’s mother was two faced and sweet as an angel to the kids, she made me feel sick
* I left WH’s Christmas presents with them and said God knew the truth and one day they regret not helping and I was a great mother
* She said I wasn’t etc
* We left, me in tears and so we sang Christmas carols with the kids
* Stopped for coffee and the kids had a play
* Got a message from WH saying that he would stop everything and that he wanted to meet me and the kids at 8:45pm at the new ferris wheel to have family time and resolve this peacefully
* Too scared to meet WH one-on-one and don’t trust him
* I wrote back the kids would be in bed and how about the airport at 6pm
* Said I was dropping someone off
* Actually, there are metal detectors, security everywhere and totally safe
* Mum and dad and kids and I went so we would have the ticket
* WH called and said he didn’t want to pay for parking, how about a restaurant
* Still wants me to take the blame for everything and interested in how this can be resolved peacefully
* We drive out of airport and WH drives up next to us
* We go to police station and make a report
* While there he drives past and I say we are there for something else
* He wants to talk, said I can bring my parents to feel safe
* We go to restaurant
* He calls and said he doesn’t trust us, police might come
* He leaves and we go back to mum and dad’s house
* He calls later and said he wants to work it out with me etc
* Still wants me to apologise to all and sundry
* So far doesn’t take any blame
* Go to sleep a little more peacefully
* Get a message after lunch Sunday asking what’s happening
* Happy to say he was wrong
* Wants to drive in to work together each day in the New Year???
* I tell him we need a lot of counseling and psychologists before then
* I told him anything to keep him calm and keep opportunities open
* Today, clients and colleagues are contacting me
* WH is sending out a retraction saying the information sent was untrue
* My reputation is severely damaged, I may lose my job, and, most people will now think that I had an affair, regardless of what I say
* He tells me that I should have listened to him, he warned me and I kept it up
* I asked for plan B
* Exposure has badly backfired on me
* He didn't lose any job or any respect from his peers
* I will potentially lose everything
* I am in a bad, controlling relationship and I can't get out
* He is intent on making my life hell
* So, I will keep up with plan C - he needs to calm down we both need mental help - then I will decide what to do

((2M2L))

I know that if someone intentionally damages one's reputation in print (that includes the internet) with false claims, it is considered libel and there are heavy penalties for it. You should get some legal advice about this in addition to the police report your files. Filing a libel claim-or even getting a cease and desist order will, at least, let his friends know that there will be consequences for any kind of manipulation he tries to get them to go along with.

Exposure has shown you your WH's true colors. You really need to consider what Rin has shared with you, stay with your family, and get some legal advice very quickly for your own security and that of your kids.

His family is of no help to you. Keep your kids away from them as much as possible. They are poison and part of the problem.

For what it is worth, WH has been working with me for 2 days to undo the damage. I know it is not the point, but he admits that he acted and then thought and wishes it did not happen in that order. He also admits that this is far worse than my 5 phone calls to expose his emotional affair, which was based on the truth.

He is taking responsibility and texting the people back and saying that he jumped to conclusions and I have not had an affair and he is sorry for involving them in our personal lives. Whether it is enough to save my job is up for debate, but thankfully it is the holiday season and it will be a couple of weeks before we all get back into work completely and hopefully people move on quickly

For a WH who is controlling, I am surprised that he is willing to take responsibility for this and actually put his reputation on the line to take back what he said.

Maybe, just maybe, it is a sign he has a conscience after all and is not completely narcissistic. Maybe, and just maybe, he is on a path to change.

I have reaffirmed my boundaries and will not compromise myself or my standards for anyone again, especially WH.

WH is still voicing that he wants to work on our marriage. Should I ask him to post on this website for you to work with him? I don't think he is ready to accept that our marriage was unhealthy and that it largely has to do with his personality etc. I don't know how to broach it other than taking us both to see a Psychologist individually and working with a MC. I think this would get us on the right track, but would it benefit us both to have him post on here? I would have to let my posts firmly disappear in the archives so that he could never find it, but it's a risk I am willing to take to give it the best shot we can.

All the experts say that a willing heart for change is what is required to reverse the problems, and WH has that at the moment. It's early days and it could be manipulation, but it feels different. I realise it will take up to two years of therapy to even get close, but provided we take baby steps, there is nothing to lose. I am in this marriage with children to the man. He will always be a part of my life and if there is a chance to influence change in his life and be the catalyst for him to become a better man, father and maybe husband, why wouldn't I?

I am so glad that God lead me here to you and that you made me realise that I had settled for second best and that I am worth so much more than this. I want what you have all found - inner peace and strength and happiness. Since I have been posting here my relationship with God has improved so much. I am active in my life now instead of remaining in the stands. I plan to make a difference in my life and I've already started. I will never settle for the old me again. I want what I have started to find, and she's wonderful and strong and confident and secure.

Abused women tend to give up their safe places and I see that you are contemplating giving away the one place of support against his abuse in order to save him...

Please don't do this. He will in fact destroy you.

I can't be more clear.

Do not give up your safe places.

Get the restraining order.

Get away from this man.

He is truly off his rocker and is in fact. Evil.

This is worth repeating. Every word is true. KA is NEVER wrong. Please listen to her.

Go to the library and take out every book they have on abusive men and take this time to sit down and READ them!

You CANNOT change him.

He is MANIPULATING you.

He saw that anger did not get you back.

He saw that ridicule did not get you back.

He's smart enough to realize that if you think he has become sentimental, you MAY take him back, so that is the ROLE he is playing.

2M2L, this is what abusers DO. They ACT. They act in whatever role GIVES them what they want. If he thought running nude in front of the police station was the one thing that would make you take him back, he would do it, and not care at all what anyone else thought, because at the moment, his GOAL is hoodwink YOU.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not EVER let him move back in. EVER. You can maintain a relationship from two different households.

Once you let him back in the house, he will destroy you, piece by piece.

He is sick. His whole family is sick. Dragging her husband by the hair?! You are so far into this sickness that you can't see how disgusting this all is to us outsiders; that's how abusers do it - they take away your grasp on reality one abuse at a time until you think it is normal or acceptable. PLEASE do not let him convince you he has changed. It is impossible.

STALKING, INSULTING, CRITICAL.


He got you to play but he showed you by having the last hateful word.


NO ONE SENT HIM THIS EMAIL. HE WROTE IT HIMSELF. THREATENING.


CONTROLLING


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES, THREATENING


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES


MORE GAMES. HE'S TRYING TO USE YOUR EXPOSURE METHOD AGAINST YOU.


NO. TYPICAL ABUSER.


MORE GAMES.


MORE GAMES. HE'S GOT YOU ON THE RUN.


YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER PLACED YOURSELF IN THIS SITUATION.


WELL NOW WE KNOW WHERE HE GETS IT.


TRYING TO REGAIN CONTROL.


SMART.


WHAT DID YOU REPORT TO THE POLICE? DID SOMETHING ELSE HAPPEN?


HE'S HAPPY TO "SAY HE WAS WRONG" BUT HE CONTINUES TO THREATEN YOU?!?!

This man is going to end up hurting you OR THE CHILDREN physically. He is very scary. Why do you continue to let him manipulate you?

You said this just a few days ago.

I don't think you believe it.

Bringing him to MB will be a HUGE mistake. That's all he needs to be able to tighten that noose around your neck.

PLEASE LISTEN TO KAYLA, CAT, STRIVIN and OTHERS. This man is poision to you and your children. You won't see it until you completely get him out of your life.

Please do not send him to Marriage Builders. I do not really know what else to say that would make any sense to you; but please do not send him here.

I will add this - for the sake of the rest of us, do not allow that sick man acces to this web site. This is a place of sanctuary for the rst of us. We do not need, or want, an abusive, controlling, WH coming here.

He has all ready sent nasty messages to everyone you have spoken to in the past 2-3 months. I can only imagine what he would do to those of us who tried to reach out and help you.

There are hurting, abused women here who do not need to be subjected to an abusive WH. If you won't protect yourself - at least protect the rest of us from him.

He needs help that this board can not possibly provide.

Thank you all for your honesty and your comments. It is so hard to think straight sometimes, if I even knew what that was anymore. I will not bring him here and he does not know this site exists. I have the SAA book at home but he is not at home and will not see it. I am sorry for making you feel afraid, it truly wasn't my intention.

I am still waiting for him to send the retraction messages. He sent about 10 yesterday but there are many many more to go. Princessmeggy - your detailed post helps me see his games. Like I said, it is my learned response to skim over the details and just focus on the rays of light to get me to the next day where everything will be better.

I do not plan to let him move home and my parents simply would not allow it. They have been exposed to many sides of my CWH (controlling wayward husband) and are keeping a close eye on me to make sure I am protected. I intend to have us living in separate residences and attending counselling and psychotherapy and doing as much as I can to assist him in a journey to become healthy. Is it a long shot? Absolutely. But he is the father of my children and whether I like it or not, he is a part of my life now and forever. I have a choice to include him in my daily life or not, but he will forever be an influence to our children and I would love to get him help and hopefully on the path to being healthy to benefit us all.

We went to the police station to find out what could be done to stop him sending the messages. It turns out there is very little. He is the account holder of my phone account and therefore he did not steal the numbers. He still has my files at his house and my intuition tells me to keep him close to get back as much of my things and as much control as I can so that when I make the break from him, he cannot repeat these destructive behaviours. I know he will find new ways, but I need to be smart here.

I still have hope that he might change, but more than that I have knowledge and that is a much healthier position to be in. I will not settle and I will not fall for his manipulation. It might sound like I still have stars in my eyes, but my feet are firmly on the ground and I believe that I do not blindly love him now. It's a different kind of love and I definately don't sit around pining for him anymore. I feel like the lights have gone on and I can see everything for what it is now. I will be just as happy getting a divorce as I will making my marriage work with a stable husband. I just don't know what will come first.

I have been searching for information and found The Healing Rooms. Jesus Heals Abuse Forum

One of the responses to a woman's post reads "I also believe that it has nothing to do with your staying or leaving ... it is not dependent upon ANYTHING you do or don't do ... I say ask Him to lead you, follow with your heart and don't obsess about whether it is exactly right or not, trust your "gut" and know that God is God and you are not. If it helps, I see that your issues are first and foremost your husband's personality disorder, not your marriage. Focus on the illness. It is his illness. If it were within your sphere of responsibility he would already be healed. It is his responsibility, not yours."

And this "I would STAY OUT and let him cry, beg, plead, etc...until he PROVES that he has changed, that he can "see you" and not just want to have you back to control you to make his life happier. I would not let him control me with what he will/might/threatens to do TO himself if you don't comply and obey his wishes. He is trying to control and manipulate and USE your love and concern for him as the weapon against you. You are an unique individual created by God for a purpose and being his doormat is not one of them, IMHO. He would have to be in counseling, etc and I would have to meet with his counselor on the progress he is making or else I would not return to him but stay in a safe place. Don't let him con you this way sweetie. You are NOT wrong to separate from someone who is abusing you...You know it, re-read your post. It is hard to face but "the truth will set you free" "God's will is NOT easy but staying with an an abuser is NOT God's will."

I know that you will love this site too if you need information or encouragement as I do.

I will keep reading and absorbing the information. I do need to get some more books from the library and gather my strength. I have a really big scary journey ahead...

this is absolutely, 100%, dead wrong. Until you realize that - you are headed for more trouble.
This is his problem to work on. He has been sick for a very long time, way before he knew you. he brought his sickness into your M. It is NOT your job to "help him". And as long as you continue to help him - neither of you will get well.


this is absolutely, 100%, dead wrong as well. You are trying to maintain contact with him, and masking it behind your attmept to "keep him close to get back as much of my things as possible." This is bull crap. Do even you beleive your own excuse here?

he does not have anything that you can recover. There is nothing to get from him. He has the contact numbers from your clients and friends. He can make photo copies of the numbers, scan your phone bills, type them all into a word file, etc. If he were to hand over your phone bills and say "there it is - all of your contact numbers" would you truly believe that was it? If so - you need to wise up fast.

He is the account holder on your phone account? SO WHAT?!?!? Come on, you are a smart girl. I know you dont really beleive that there is nothing you can do.
You call the phone company, tell them exactly what he did, and ask for their help. You need to get your phone number changed. I dont care that 100's of business clients have that number - you screwed up letting this man have access to your clients contact numbers, and now you need to make it right. If it costs money to fix this -then pay the money and learn the lesson. The mobile phone you use for work should never be in your WH's control. Change the number, and have your own account.

If you cant change the number - then get a new account and a new number and cancel the old one when you can. If some stranger had stolen your mobile and done this, do you honestly believe there is nothing that could be done?
Get yourself a new number - today - and start sending letters - not text messages - to all of your business contacts apologizing for the unfortunate message sent to them recently, and telling them that as one of the steps you are taking to protect them from this in the future - you now have a new phone number, and it is:XXX
People will understand, and respect you for taking this step to try to shield them from further trouble. of course your WH can still send out his blast messages - he all ready has the info - but at least you can start taking steps to protect this from happening again.

Your WH should not have access to your new number, or the bills - send them to your parents. I know that you have said before "I cant change my number because of work" but what he did to your work contacts was horrible, and you have to take massive steps to fix this. If I were one of your business contacts, I would fully expect a written apology from you with a new mobile number.

Now, I know you - and you dont want to change your number because you still want to see his lovely little texts, and you still want him to call you - so keep the old phone just for him to call - and get a new phone for everyone else. Will he eventually find out, and be mad?? Of course. But what he did was horrible and frankly I think he should be in jail for it.

Wake up and quit trying to make excuses for everything. You need to protect those children.

Thank you, wof, for saying what I wanted to. I wasn't sure if it was just me seeing this.

2m2l, did you actually read the book Why Does He Do That? - cover to cover? If so, you would have learned (assuming you want to learn) that women who get into abusive situations - and stay - do so because their low self-worth tells them that that's all they deserve. They actually CRAVE the abuse, becuase it gives them a sick, twisted sense of being wanted. Surely, no one in his right mind would want you, right? So pick out a guy so mean that no one else will accept him, and you have a perfect match, right? No chance of him dumping you like you deserve. So everytime you get another twist in the gut from his figurative knife, at least you know he still wants you, huh?

And you would also have learned that there is NO SUCH THING as fixing an abusive man. It is in his CORE BEING to be selfish, manipulative and mean. It is what he believes is the RIGHT way to be; in his mind, you are just stupid for putting up with it. So you deserve everything he dishes out. Until he just goes ahead and kills you and your kids.

Did you ever go to read that thread I think I recommended to you over in Emotional Needs? From about a year ago, by youngandlearning? She kept making excuses for her guy, who choked her, threw hot coffee on her, ruined her car, sold her puppy(!), barred her from leaving her house, on and on. Yet she kept going back to him. Like most abuse victims do. Because it's the one guy who will take them.

Time to be honest with yourself. What exactly is your payback for keeping this egged on? Staying in contact with him BECAUSE he is abusive is a load of crap. Every time you try to stand up to him, and then go back like this, he gets a stronger and stronger hold over you. Until you just can't fight any more. The only people who survive abusive husbands are those women who cut off all contact. Period.

I found a book that can help fix an abusive relationship in the bookstore last night.

Has anyone heard of it? You Don't Have To Take It Anymore

I'm so confused. Yes, I am addicted to him.

I am confused and scared to stay in this situation and petrified to try and leave it. He left a number of girlfriends without stalking and tormenting them so I keep hoping that I can get there with him too.

I don't think he wants me back, but he doesn't want to lose me and he is fixated on not losing the children.

I'll keep reading the books, I'm not making fast decisions and lift is just ticking along with me and the kids at home here in pleasantville.

What should I say to my clients? I don't know what they need to hear and haven't had anyone's opinion on this. I think a letter is an excellent idea and I want to do that as well as change my number.

Thank you for your suggestions.

2M2L-

Please listen to what these posters are saying to you-



My best friend since high school (gosh-that was a few decades ago...) was in an abusive marriage and also thought somehow she was at fault, that there was something she needed to do to "help" him or "fix" things at home.

They were both in support groups-hers met at the local police station for safety reasons. She got there early and was sitting by the receptionist when the gal at the desk asked her what was wrong. Apparently my friend (let's refer to her as L for now) had a look on her face that made this woman question what she was thinking. When L responded saying something about how L felt it was partly her fault and that she thought she needed to do something about it the receptionist's reply changed her thinking completely. It was simply this: "What makes you so special that you can make a fully grown man do anything he doesn't choose to do? He broke the law. It has nothing to do with YOU."

That was it. She wasn't willing to put up with his words, his posturing, his threats. He had to move out. It wasn't until she was willing to lose him that he finally got serious about really getting the help he needed and not just go through the motions.

They have a completely different marriage now. It took a ton of work but...L didn't do anything to make his part of it "better". She stopped trying to figure out how to "keep the peace" or figure out his actions. What she did do was stop putting up with it. She didn't own his junk anymore.

I hope you can do the same. You and your kids deserve to have peace and not have your AWH control your family with his behavior. You will be better off-even if he doesn't come around.

Again-that's HIS problem to work on-not yours.

I'm praying for you and your family.

Thanks Johnstwin for your post and your prayers.

I am relieved that there are some good stories out there where change is possible.

I will never again accept the unhealthy marriage that I had in the past and still have today. I will not allow him to move home until sufficient changes have happened and I realise it will take months and years, not days.

I have hope because he said he doesn't want to lose this relationship and knows that he has a lot of issues to deal with and is willing to try and fix it for our family. He said he doesn't know if it will help save our marriage, but he knows he needs help.

It is the biggest admission so far and his eyes look different. I know that Believer has a Cold Eyes thread at the moment and his eyes looked so different yesterday. He caught up with the kids and took DD to the video store and the kids both slept the whole night through without nightmares - it hasn't been like that since before Christmas.

His eyes are softened and they are pre-June eyes. We have a HUGE journey ahead - me to find my strength and keep my resolve and he to learn things about himself that will shock him and how to learn how to change and then to change.

Tonight at 12.01am it will be a New Year filled with new possibilities.

You CAN NOT FIX someone. ANYONE. The ONLY thing you can do is stand firm BY YOURSELF and make him see that the ONLY way you (and kids) will ever be part of his life is if he lowers his walls and enters with TOTAL HUMILITY. He has to hit rock bottom before that can happen. Quit feeding him any tidbits. Plan A WILL NOT WORK. Can't you see that? Every single book I have ever read (a lot) say the same thing. I'll read your book but it will have to be a very scientific explanation before I'll believe it, to deny all the other statistical evidence the others depend on.

What to say to clients?
"Dear XYZ,
I hope you will forgive the temporary invasion into your lives by my personal issues. I assure you it has been resolved and will not occur again. Please accept my apologies and in the spirit of insuring total safety for our intra-business dealings, please replace my old phone number and email address with these:
ddd
ddd
Thank you again for allowing me to serve you, and I hope to see you again,
Sincerely,
2m2l"

If you feel the need, you might even offer them a coupon or discount of some sort to entice them.

ETA: The very first thing abusers do when confronted, is to do exactly this, what your H is doing. Please do NOT believe him. Not yet. Not for at least 6 months of weekly therapy on his part. And he needs GROUP therapy, not just individual. He needs to be in a group of people who will NOT let him get away with his crap, who will tear down his wall of games, call him out on it, take him to rock bottom.

Until then, DO NOT believe a word he says. Until then, HE IS ACTING. THAT IS WHAT ABUSERS DO - THEY ACT EXACTLY LIKE THEY KNOW YOU WANT THEM TO BE.

2M2L, I remember being in the stage that you are in...I'd call it denial myself...I remember believing that the abuse was there and STILL hoping and wishing that something would change it...but I was wanting to take back the control...I didn't want to believe that all was lost...

You have not hit your bottom yet...you still are not living in reality...you have bites and pieces of it...you know that the abuse is there but you still want something to FIX it...YOU can't...

Not only are you dealing with an abusive person but one who is mentally unstable...if it was just abuse perhaps there a slim chance but you have too many things going on in this situation...

...he has you wrapped around his little finger, he has so much control over you that you are believing HIS stuff...

You're situation in insane! You said once that you realize that we are trying to save you...the first thing that YOU NEED TO do IS admit that there's a major problem...DO YOU WANT YOUR GIRLS TO REPEAT HISTORY? DO YOU WANT THEM TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP LIKE YOU ARE HAVING WITH THIS MAN?

Can you make a list of your fears? Post them here perhaps? Are you seeing a IC yourself? What about a group for abused women? I know that you are scared...you are not alone...others have walked this path...the situations are different but the behaviors of abuser are all the same...

Life can be peaceful! I know that you probably feel like you don't have options but you do...they are there but it feels like it's too hard to do...or you can't becasue of this or that...THAT'S YOU MAKING EXCUSES BECAUSE YOU ARE SCARED!!! It's okay to be scared, I was! Felt all the things that I wrote about but the thing is you have to walk through that fear...YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE...YOU WILL HAVE HELP...

YOUR WH DOESN'T WANT HELP...IF HE DID, HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOME BY NOW...he's playing you and when the cat has had all he can take he's going to kill the mouse that he's playing with!

YOU HEAR US "BUT" YOU DON"T REALLY HEAR US!!!! I know I've been there...change the phone into your name...ask for help...DO SOMETHING SO THAT YOU CAN STOP THE MADNESS...the messages...go to a women's shelter and talk to them...please!!!!

It's oKAY!!!! This is unacceptable behavior and I just see that you are not ready yet...you want it but you still can't figure it out...it's your willpower right now...you are as addicted to him and the abuse as he is sick! THAT CAN CHANGE!!!

You SAY that you are not willing to accept this type of M any longer, but those are just words. If he were to come crying back tomorrow and say "I know I need help, I cant get into an IC for 4 more weeks, please let me stay here for now, I promise to TRY to do better, and I will only see OW at practice" you would allow him back in, because you still think you are fighting for your M. You are not. You are fighting for your sanity - and the mental health of your children.

The example given earlier (I think it was Johnstwin) of the girl who was waiting for her support group meeting at the police station - she reached a point of understanding that her relationship with her H was done, over, finished. She did not sit there and suddenly realize "Aha, now I get it, he needs to change and then we live happily ever after"

that is not her "aha moment".For her, it was the realization that she could not be married to this man. Period. It was over, she was done. No more looking for ways to get along. no more waiting for him to get the help he needed. Done. No more waiting for him to finally change so her life could begin. This is her life, right here and now. Her children were not going to sit around the house waiting for Mommy to pull her head out of her rear any longer. This, right here, today, is/was her life.

so she finally accepted the help she needed. She quit trying to find ways to maintain contact with her AWH, for "the sake of the children" or "to keep him close, so she could get her paper work back" or "to try to help him while he gets help". Her life with that man was done.

And then he got help. On his own. Made the appointments, drove himself to the IC, followed up with the lessons, learned how to be a grown up. he finally learned how to be a man. He is the RARE exception to the rule. I would guess that 99% of all abusive men do not get the help they need, and do not grow up. And that is because there is always a woman who is willing to put up with his crap. So why does he need to grow up.

Unless you can finally admit that your M is done, you are not really "getting it". Unless you can finally say "this man is poison to my soul, and I will no longer have a relationship with him" then you are still in serious denial.

Can he change? Grow up? Become a decent H? There is a 1% chance of that happening. But you can not expect to happen, You can not make it happen, and you can not wait for it. You file for D, you adjust your life to be a single mom, you figure out ways that he can see those precious chidlren without you having contact with him (I am not talking about plna B here - I am talking about coming up with the type of plan that abused women need for their ex H's to visit the chidlren - you need help from a womans shelter for this)

You take care of business. If, by some miracle, some day he shows you that he is a new man, you can consider dates - for coffee - in public places. But that is so far off in the future, that you can not wait for it any longer.

Put on your big girl panties and take care of those chidlren.

This is the only childhood your babies will ever have. You are forming their vision of M, of relationships, of care, right now. They are watching you right now, and the crap you put up with now, forms their expectiation of M later.

You SAY you want help. But when is your appointment with an IC? When do you go to the womens shelter to get help? Have you changed your mobile number yet?
If none of these things are done yet - then you are still not getting it.

If you are reading this post and thinking "WOF doesn;t understand me. He is not that bad. I have been a bad W too. I provoke him. If I could just support him, then he will be all better and the kids will be happy again" if those thoughts are going though your mind, then you are still not getting it.

He sent text messages to all of your contacts - that is SICK
He goes into the parking garage to look at your car, and lifts the windshield wiper so you will know he has been there - that is SICK

2M2L,

I have not really been keeping up with your sitch but just read a few pages. For obvious reasons I understand your pain.

Just my 2cents and as humbly as I can and mean it with the most love that I can.

I see that you went to the healing rooms, and that's great and all, but I don't think that If Jesus appeared and came to you right now and told you what to do that you would be WILLING to do it. I don't feel that If Jesus also handed you 10 books on your situation and you read them all that you would be WILLING to do it.

I'm sure you probably pray for safety and that's great but you are bypassing the wisdom of God by even being in this relationship at this point. Imagine someone telling Jesus to stick his hand in fire, he does and says Ouch that hurts and continuing to stick his hand in the fire to get burned. He wouldn't do that. You know why because Jesus uses wisdom. Jesus is the Spirit of Wisdom.

You have fortified mindsets in your mind that are allowing you to accept this crap. Every time you are told practical wisdom your mind finds a way to justify what you are doing and rejects practical sound wisdom. You have read everything I'm sure and have talked it out up and down and have been told by massive amounts of people the same thing over and over but you have not done what you need to do.

I am saying in this in the humblest way that I can. Your decisions are equal in selfishness to your H. You are both being selfish, yup you too. You would rather "feel good" than do what is necessary and that is selfish.

Its selfish because you are also being an example to your children, whom by the way are learning by your every move, and will 9 times out of 10 follow in your footsteps. You by example are showing them how to stay and keep an abusive controlling relationship. You think this hurts now, just wait till your children go through it.

I just think at this time all the books are useless because books are based on taking action and you are clearly NOT WILLING to do what each of those books are saying. Just stop reading them. Your gonna do better off at doing some soul searching on a deep level on why you continuing doing this. That's probably going to get your farther. You need clear concise actions everything else is just talk and talk is cheap.

Yes action will be hard and it will suck and you will cry and you will definitely NOT "feel good" at least at the beginning. It's just not gonna feel good and that's the way it is. You gotta get to where you don't care about that simple pleasure of feeling good and you do what's right for you and most of all for your babies cuz babe its monkey see monkey do, and do as I do not do as I say. Surely as I live you are teaching your kids by your actions and they will fortify it in their minds too that accepting all this crap is A-okay too because they saw mom do it so it must be okay.

Sorry hon, I am truly sorry you are hurting but you gotta stop putting your hand in the fire and maybe it won't feel good but at least you won't keep getting burned.

My 2009 prayer for you, that you would see into yourself and be fully aware of those fortified areas in your mind that justifies all that you have accepted and that you rip them down and build new fortified belief systems so that you can live in more victory and less defeat. Guess that's the prayer I would have for all of us, me to.