I think the police response is interesting. She can't call up and order six cops like a pizza. But if the manpower is on hand the cops always want to go in heavy on a domestic. In my little rural town, every cop around shows up for everything, life is so boring for them. Three cops and three squad cars came to break up the bonfire party my S had after D-day. But I don't think we have six cops on a shift, even.

Hi erichh,

I got the bat signal from Melodylane to check your thread out and offer some advice. I have not read the whole thing yet, just the recent events, but as the others have said I lived through and survived this same battle two years ago at this same time, and came out victorious.


my now exWW did take our 2 kids from our family home for about 3 weeks, just before Christmas and through New Years, and would not let me talk to them. I know that I did have the parental right to go get them and bring them home, but I instead let her dig her hole deep. I did not want to get into a tug of war with the kids, I figured the court would not like that more than her taking them from the home. It was a risk, but one worth taking. I called every day and recorded every conversation with her where she denied my request to see them. It was the hardest thing to not be able to see them and especially during Christmas, but with the help of many here I was able to make it.

We went to court the first week in January 2007 because she had filed for legal separation, and the judge actually said "Mrs. Eph525, I do not like what you have done with the kids" and said they were to be returned home that day. At that time I got primary physical custody and she got every other weekend. She did watch our daughter during the day and picked up our son from school and kept them until I got home. We later agreed on one overnight during the week. The bad part was I had to pay her CS even though I had them a majority of the time.

Since she filed for D, and had no grounds in SC, we had to be separated 1 year. In that year we did mediations where I never agreed to anything, only listened and offered possible settlement options, but I never once budged on custody. See she was also a SAHM and I worked, so she tried to play that angle. Oh, and when we went to court that first time, I had already lined up a family friend to help out with the kids rather than looking at daycare options. As suggested by Mortarman and Mr. W here, it was critical to have done this BEFORE going to court.

She kept digging her hole deeper through the year making bad choices. By October 2007 she had "given up" and basically gave up CS and the existing custody arrangement. I then put our daughter in pre-school and found afterschool care for our son.

Our D was final around the end of March 2008, and I got primary physical and legal custody. She has every other weekend and one afternoon during the week, with no overnights. She is angling to change that but that's a whole other discussion, but the point from this is that even after the D is over, the battles will still come up.

That's the cliff notes version, but feel free to read the whole story and the gory details. I think I did a pretty good plan A, but my plan B was not the best because she tried to use it against me several times and so I just did the best I could...it was not a midnight dark plan B but maybe a late evening dark plan B

You have some good people here offering advice, many who helped me. I'll offer advice as you move along as well.

I hope this helps, and may you find some peace in the midst of the storm. Pray hard!

Thanks Eph525 for responding! And thanks Melody for displaying the "bat signal!"

I am glad to see that this could work in my favor. I'll let her dig her hole just like your WW did. Unfortunately, my WW won't even answer my phone calls so I don't know if I'll have the opportunity to record a phone conversation.

Were you able to use the recordings of the phone conversations as evidence? I've heard that one is not allowed to use phone recordings because it is considered illegal. I'll ask my attorney about this tomorrow.

As for now, I have called her each day so far and recorded it in my journal. Yikes, it only happened yesterday!! It already seems like an eternity since I've seen my son and my step-kids. This isn't right... Oh well, it's only temporary... Anyway, phone logs could be gotten from my cell phone company to show that I've called her.

I also sent her an email yesterday requesting to see my son. I'll send another one shortly...

I am glad that the judge gave you custody. I kind of hope that my WW continues to deny me access to our son because it could help me in the long run. She's meeting with an attorney this Friday and I am sure the attorney will advise her to let me see our son and I think at that point she will realize the mistake she is making and let me see him... We'll see...

Do you and your wife get along now or do you still see each other as enemies? I just don't see my wife and I ever reconciling after this but you never know.

Written documentation is good, but if you want to go the extra mile, record yourself calling her with no answer from her part.

I did not have to use the the recordings as evidence. Different states have different guidelines on recording conversations. For me, since I was a party of the conversation I could record it without telling her. You may have different guidelines.

Your wife's attorney may tell her to let you see the kids, but she may not. My ex mentioned on occasion that her attorney told her to do certain things that backfired (like keeping the kids away)...these were her claims and may not be true but you never know.

I interact very little with the ex now, and try to keep it to e-mail as much as possible so it is documented. As I am finding out, she will do whatever she can to try to gain the upper hand and get a custody change. Even after all this, I still hove to document things just to be prepared.

Keep us posted on how things go.

Print out your phone call log showing your 1-2 calls per day. I don't think it is illegal to record your own phone conversations, but I am not sure.

When are you filing?

I'm meeting with my attorney this morning to sign the petition so it should be filed today. I'm going to ask him about recording phone conversations...

Hey Erich, just record the converstations regardless. Better to have them and not be able to use them than to not have them and need them. I really worry about what your wife might pull.

Exactly. It is my understanding you can almost always record a conversation in which you are a participant. Wiretap warrants are for cops eavesdropping in.

and, if not, so what? you'll have them for negotiations, if not court.

Erich,

You're in a one party state (Missouri) which means you can record phone conversations (or any conversation) as long as one party (you) knows that they are being recorded.

So record away and record ALL conversations. Catch her in her ugliness. Catch her telling you you can't see your son.

Then ask her why you can't see your son. Get it all on audio.

Any and all phone conversations should be recorded.

Missouri is a one party state.

This is very good news for you, but turnabout is fair play.

When you make a call, leave a message, but know that any and all phone messages can be used later in court.

Try emailing as well.

An email like this:

WW,

I've been calling the last few days to try and talk to DS. You haven't answered your calls. Are you trying to keep him from me?

erich

WW won't answer my phone calls but I got her to respond to my emails. Here is the email trail (newest response is first, they are in reverse chronological order....might be better to start reading from bottom-up. Brackets added to protect identities):

[erichh], i know you like to play stupid. i dont have time for it. i want what is best for [son]...and YOU already know that includes time with you...a good amount of it. but after you did what you did (withholding [son] from me to get what you wanted), i cannot trust that you wont do that again. i wish you had not done that...for everyones sake. until i talk to my lawyer and get some sort of legal custody aggreement, i cannot trust [son] with you.

Love comes from service. You know that! And no one has served [son] more than I. I don't think you'll ever understand the love between a mother (who is present) and her child.

You have done some pretty horrible things, but that was just over the top. DO! NOT! MESS! WITH! MOM! I know who I am, and all your ugly words and actions can't take that from me.




On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 3:51 PM, [erichh] <[email address]> wrote:

I understand that you have an appointment with your attorney this Friday. Does that mean that you are not going to let me see our son until you've met with your attorney? Who is your attorney?

[erichh]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [WW] [mailto:[email address]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:39 PM
To: [erichh]
Subject: Re: Our son


I have an appointment with my lawyer on friday. That was the soonest i could get in.



On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:31 PM, [erichh] <[email address]> wrote:

[WW],



I would like to visit with [son] as soon as possible. Please call or email me to discuss this. I've called you several times already and left voicemails to discuss visiting with [son] but have not heard from you. How is [son] doing? How are the other kids? I miss the kids a lot. Please tell them that I love them,



[erichh]

I would respond back in the email that you didn't withold him from her, you just insisted that he not be moved from his home into the ghetto apartment she rented without a court order. You even let her tuck him in. She was free to see him anytime she wanted in the marital home.

Don't leave that allegation unanswered.

Also, FILE BEFORE SHE DOES! Send your paperwork over to her lawyer's office to greet her.

I completely agree Jim. Here is an email response that I have prepared. What do you think about it?

[WW],

It is obvious that I did not intend to withhold our son from you because I had no problem with you spending time with him and knowing exactly where he would be at all times. We both tucked him into bed Sunday night before you left at your own free will to spend the night at your apartment. I have never asked you to leave our house and disagree strongly with your desire to break up our home and our family.

I did express my concern and discomfort with you taking our son to a two bedroom government subsidized apartment to live without an agreed upon visitation schedule. Now you are only proving me right by completely cutting off all contact between our son and me. I feel this is a cruel act toward both [our son] and me and sincerely hope that your attorney will encourage you to end this hostile stance.

I was thinking about adding a small paragraph about my displeasure toward her police force fiasco Monday morning...


I filed all of the paperwork yesterday including the petition for temporary custody due to my WW not letting me see our son. I don't know who her attorney is yet though...

Here's another version of my email response:

[WW],

It is obvious that I did not intend to withhold our son from you because I had no problem with you spending time with him and knowing exactly where he would be at all times. We both tucked him into bed Sunday night before you left at your own free will to spend the night at your apartment. I have never asked you to leave the family house and disagree strongly with your desire to break up our home and our family.

I am appalled that you gathered six police officers in three police cars to pickup our son from your sister’s house Monday morning. I don’t understand why you decided to traumatize [our son] with such an excessive display of force. We both discussed and agreed Sunday evening that we both had equal legal rights to physical custody of [our son] until a court order was drawn up. Therefore, you knew that you could have picked [our son] up at any time without a struggle but you decided to create a scene from a movie. I still don’t understand why you did this, especially with [step son, step daughter, and cousins] all witnessing the harrowing event.

Sunday night and previously, I did express my concern and discomfort with you taking our son to a two bedroom government subsidized apartment to live without an agreed upon visitation schedule. I was worried that you would not allow [our son] to spend enough time with me to give him a meaningful relationship with his father. Now you are only proving me right by completely cutting off all contact between our son and me. I feel this is a cruel act toward both [our son] and me and sincerely hope that your attorney will encourage you to end this hostile stance.


Is this too much?

hi ericch...

As I mentioend , I don't see how she had any control over how many cops showed.

If I were you, I'd play up the unsuitability of the living arrangements, 3 kids in one bedroom, crime in the area, how were they to be supported and cared for, etc.

anyway, let your lawyer guide these strategies.

Here's for a better 2009!

Agree!! And add something about how you think it is bad for the children to be exposed to her affair with Scumbag! "That is teaching the kids that wrong is right and will leave them morally confused."

erich,

E-mails have a tendency to start resembling "documentationitis" at one point and you're there.

Your emails to her should be very, very short. They should be along the lines of:

"WW,

I have no desire to keep our son from you. I object to you moving with him and taking him out of my life without a visitation agreement.

I also don't believe it's in his best interests to live where he's living.

erich"

That's it. Short. To the point.

Otherwise you'll get into long drawn out arguments over email and they won't get you anywhere.

Trust me. She won't listen regardless of what you write and judges know what kind of game you're both playing. Simple, short, and not engaging are your mantra.

And it's ridiculous that she says you're trying to keep her from seeing him when she's the one who left.

It's clearly the other way around.

Light a fire under your lawyer's butt and get an emergency hearing ASAP.

Don't let the status quo be established as her home. An immediate PL order that leaves the son in the martital home is what is called for.

I agree....short, courteous -- but asking for something reasonable, to talk to them, to see them, etc.

then let her turn him down and emote back...

I went ahead and took POM's advice and changed the email to short and to the point. He just went through this so I trust he knows what he's talking about regarding what the judge will be looking for.

I also asked WW if I could at least speak to my son on the phone. I haven't had any contact with him since Monday morning. I don't know how a parent could settle for every other weekend because this really stinks. Maybe if my son were older it wouldn't effect me as much but right now, it's really hard.

The attorney told me that now that the paperwork is filed, it is in the court system's hands now. He said they are really slow here. It could be a couple of weeks before WW is served..

I'm ok with not seeing my son for weeks if it means that I will get sole custody and the visitation that I've requested. I'll keep everyone posted.

Get her in writing saying you can't speak to him on the phone, can't have a supervised visit, etc.

Hey, what is going on with ex-H 2 and his kid?

The judge won't like that.

Hang in there...

I'm curious to know if my WW is cruel enough to not let me even talk to my son on the phone. That would change the dynamics of the situation from her saying "I'm afraid you will take him from me" to "I am heartless enough to not allow any contact at all between you and your son, who you don't even know whether is alive or not."

I have thought about contacting ex-H2, but decided against it because WW is very chummy with him. He's the OM from marriage #1.

He only sees his son every other weekend and is satisfied with that. WW even tried to encourage ex-H2 to spend more time with his son by offering him Tuesday evenings but ex-H2 didn't want more time with his son.

I don't think I would get any help from him.