Well, So much for the PMA

Feeling a little sad right now, feels like I wasted the last 4 years trying to build a business up and all I got was bankruptcy and my wife leaving me.

The anger has been replaced on this rollercoaster. Will feel better soon, I know.

I agree with your IC, sort of...

Read about the Giver and the Taker. Although I agree you need to take care of yourself, one of your major LB's was selfish behavior (I can't think of anything more selfish than an addiction, unless it's possibly an A). And that is something you have to overcome with her, to show her you have her interests in mind along with your own.

I agree you should not be giving in to your W at the exclusion of your own needs, but I think you have more giving to give her before you show her you can think of her and not fall back into selfish behavior.

So think about things before you say no...is it something she is asking for that won't HURT you? Then do it...

I also agree, to keep your mind off her...mostly... Try not to guess how her mind is working. But be thoughtful of her in caring ways...pick up her favorite flower, make her coffee/tea, remember good times. Does that make sense?

SHM, yeah, that makes sense. I understand where you are coming from. I can't do the coffee/tea thing though as we are seperated.

I gave and gave and gave during our false recovery, all to no avail. One of her last comments to me before I left was "you are a wonderful person, you need someone to love you back like you have been loving me. I'm sure there will be someone out there for you"

Needless to say, I told her I wasn't interested in pursuing alternative relationships right now, but I did agree with her that maybe some day I will.

I've read all about the giver and the taker, I have recognised my failings and made tremendous personal changes. These have been recognised and appreciated by my W, but she is adamant that she cannot recover any intimate love for me.

I would say though, that as each day passes, she is becoming more and more unpredictable in her actions towards me. Sometimes she is very friendly, others more distant. I honestly don't think she know what it is she wants at the moment apart from to be alone.

She is repeatedly telling me she doesn't want to give me 'false hope'. I don't know why she feels the need to tell me tht over and over again. Maybe she is trying to convince herself.

Time will tell, after all, I have the rest of my life to look forward to and if it's with her, then at the moment, that would be great. I would want a LOT of things from her before I agreed to any reconciliation though. I have never yet had a spoken apology for her EA (only in 1 email when I exposed her actions to our youngest DS), she has expressed no remorse in her actions. I have been told over and over again that revisiting the past is no way to go forward. (those type of speeches are long gone though)

If there is any chance for us, it would have to be at her request, with both of us agreeing a way forward to fulfil BOTH our needs.

That, I am afraid, going on past performances, may never happen.

I do appreciate your comments though, keep them coming

Just journalling really.

The other day, when I ignored W txt and phone call, she was quite annoyed. It was a first for me to do that and it obviously struck a nerve somewhere. If I can affect her that way, then there is still a connection.

tonight however, I think she may be playing silly tit for tat games. I tried to call her and talk to her about the joint debt. She didn't answer. I sent her a txt explaining why I was ringing and there has been no response from that either.

Now, there are 2 ways to look at that...

1. She is playing silly games and ignoring me because I ignored her, or....

2. She is very angry at having to carry debt with her that she thought she could run away from and therefore does NOT want to talk to me.

I know, I know, leave her alone, forget about it.

I will not contact her now before she calls or txts me. The ball is firmly in her court. She knows I want to offer a solution, if she wants to hear it, that's her choice now, not mine.

Well I got a txt back late last night. W is going to call me tonight after she has finished work.

Will wait to see what happens then
_________________________

I am new to this site and would like some direction for where I should post as I need some advice on which direction to go. Can somebody please advise me?

Kezzas,

I would suggest that in the 1st instance, you start up your own thread in this section of the forum. (GQII)

It's where most of the traffic is.

Tell us what is going on in your situation, how you feel and what you need help with.

Take Care

Yep, could be anything...perhaps she's started a collecting obsession with Godzilla and spent the whole nite on eBay. Perhaps she is looking into becoming a monastic nun and is practicing silence...too crazy to try to guess what is going on.

Kind sir, have you thought about what Plan B will be like, and the timing of it? If you have fulfilled many of the requirements of Plan A (exposure, fulfilling EN's, showing change to the WS) and you are losing love, then think about Plan B...

kezza, we have moved your post to your very own thread located here here Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Oh sugar. I have just made a major backslide....BIG TIME.

W rung and I discussed the finances. She understood and thanked me for trying to help.

Then I decided to tell her that I didn't NEED her anymore, I wanted her, but didn't NEED her. She said, "well that's GOOD. That's a positive thing. Does that mean we can still be friends then?" I told her I wasn't sure, I didn't know whether it was good for me seeing her and having to leave her time and time again. She asked me if I was saying that we shouldn't contact each other anymore. I said, I guess I am, yes. "OK" she said.

By now, my emotions were in hyperdrive and I really should have left it at that, but I didn't. I carried on. I told her that I wasn;t sure what was the best for me. She said that she wanted to remain friends because she doesn't like falling out with anyone and it would be better for both of us if we managed to get on.

I asked her if she was happier on her own and she said "yes, I get lonely now and again, but I feel much better". "I was getting to the stage when we were trying again that I didn't want to come home to you after work as you would ask me if I was alright over and over again if I was quiet, and that I would start to resent you, so yeah, I do feel better"

Emotions took over even more....

I then decided to question her again about OM. I told her that I didn't believe her about him and that there was more she hadn't told me. I said that if we were to be separate forever, then it didn't matter what she told me anymore.

She got angry, she said "You see, you never have forgiven me, never would and would always be dragging this back up again and again"

I told her that I wouldn't. I had forgiven her, but I couldn;t forget. I told her that one moment she had told me he was a sympathetic ear because he had been through a break up and next that he was gay. She said "Oh, so gay people don't have relationships then?, where's all this come from anyway...the bl**dy internet?!". She has a hatred of forums and chat rooms.

I told her it was partly from the internet and partly from other people I have talked to. Her response to this was "so you believe strangers and other people rather than someone you have known for 26 years?" I said "I thought I knew you, but you blew my perception out of the water when you did what you did!"

She then said "forget it then, we had better not talk to each other anymore, I don't want this dragging up, it's nothing to do with us anyway!" I told her it has everything to do with us as she introduced a 3rd party into our marriage.

By now, I was panicking and trying to backtrack. I asked her about the walk on Sunday. She said "we'd better not go, I don't want you bringing all this up again". I told her I wouldn't.

I took a different tack then, asked her if she felt everything was REALLY over. She said "yes". I asked her if she was open to trying something else, a new method of rekindling feelings, no getting back together, no living with each other, no telling anyone else, just her and I trying something different. She said "Like what?" I said, looking at things from a different perspective, reading about different methods of working things out. She said "I don't know, I'll think about it, I know that it's over for me, so I don't know if there is any point."

I asked about the walk again, she said she was going anyway and if I wanted to go along, then I was welcome, but only if I didn't go on about things. I asked her if she WANTED me to go with her, she said yes. So we agreed on that.

I asked her about picking our old dog up and when she was doing that. She said tomorrow, so I said "cool, Man I miss him so much, can I call over for a coffee on saturday and see him?" She said "Well I'm out for the day on saturday, just me and coop, Im going to take hi for walk somewhere, I'll be in at night though, I'll text you when I get back and you can come over for a brew".

I said I would let her go, and she should forget about what had been said apart from the 'suggestions of new methods'. she said "OK, Ill think about it, speak to you on saturday".

So, in one fell swoop I managed to commit at least 2 massive LBs seriously annoy her, prove to her and me that it was all over, get her to admit there was no chance of her getting her feelings back and show her how damned indecisive I am.

DAMN!. One day I will learn to keep my big mouth shut

AND...you let her run the show and make the rules...another moment lost. No, you can't and shouldn't promise you will never bring up the OM...why? Because he is probably still current...

She wants to keep you at arms length, have you around as a 'friend' and be able to do whatever she wants. Remember, you are still married. No, she doesn't get to change the rules. She is negotiating a marriage where you will allow her to do whatever she wants with whomever she wants and won't say a dad-blummed things or else...she'll stop seeing you. It's like my DD's friend, when she is not getting her way saying, "I won't be your best friend..."

I think you should seriously look at what Plan B would look like...she is cake-eating, big time.

You know what SHM, I really don't know who to believe, I really don't. I just wish I knew whether or not she really WAS being honest with me. I could then move on.

She was quite honestly prepared to not talk to me ever again, she said that I was respecting her wishes by leaving her alone and she would therefore respect mine by not having ANY contact if that is what I want. It is up to me to decide, she will have to live with whatever the consequences are.

I hate limbo land

Wow, a lot of you sounds like me. Thats some of the stuff I accidentally say every once in a while.

I try to ignore the parts where she says she is over and point out the parts where she shows feelings, though.


Wow, just like my life right now. One day the WW is nice, the next day she is cold and distant.

That is also one of her biggest things with me and has been from the beginning of all this. She keeps telling me she doesnt want to give me "False Hope".

Sounds very similar.

I wish you the best. Maybe everything will work out and all. Just keep working on yourself and make yourself somebody she wants to be with.

I'll bet she is prepared to never talk to you again. My take on it is she is so unhappy, and blaming you, she thinks if she cuts you out of her life she will be happier...not true, she will have to live with herself. And begin to realize it wasn't you making her unhappy...

Thanks Rusty..

Here's to me an you making it through all this pig muck with our sanity intact.

<raises glass>

Oh, if you get any 'bolts from the blue' about what is going on, let me know

Do you feel like you have been the persuer? Maybe give her as much space as you can while at the same time not so much that you cannot plan A her more. Let her decide to have to chase you. I am hoping if I drop back she will try to keep the distance between us at about the same level and start pursuing me a little bit. May work for you.


ETA: I think the false hope part is her wanting to lie to herself. She feels herself getting the little bits of hope and then she is afraid the feelings wont last and she will have led you on. I think it is from her own fears.

My WW always uses the false hope line whenever she breaks down a little bit. When she will look at me like she used to or when she feels urges for me.

Ya know Rusty, Depsite my best efforts, I do still feel like the pursuer. I know what you mean, but she sounds so convincing when she says she is happy on her own. She is VERY stubborn and once she sets her mind on something, she will see it through no matter how much it hurts her.

I see what you mean about the 'false hope'. could that be right?.

I guess we will never know because they will never admit it.

Yeah, I think if you feel like she is not persuing you at all, you probably need to back off a little more. I have slowly backed off a little at a time and now my WW is actually starting to call me and stuff like that. Just got off the phone because she called just to check on D2. She never did that when I was engaged at maximum persuit. The more I back up it seems the more she reaces out.

WW is probably really scared right now also about all of this stuff and being chased just adds to the stress.

Thanks Rusty...I'll try to back off, again

One question for the vet troops here though...

Hypothetically speaking, let me put a position to you and ask for advice.

Let's assume that W IS telling the truth. That OM is gay, he was a shoulder to lean on, he is now out of the picture.

Let's also assume that all I did over the last 18 months (which is true) i.e. ignore W, drink, play PC games, bury my head in the sand with regards to money problems, drove her emotionally away from me. She lost her love for me. She tried and tried to get it back but it isn't there anymore.

So... she leaves, she feels sad and remorseful, she decides that she wants to try again. We do, and I think all in the garden is rosy, don't drink, don't play PC games, give her all the affection I can. show her love, attention etc. etc. BUT...

She feels the same way about me still, doesn't want ANY pressure of a relationship, doesn't want to have to explain herself to ANYONE, wants to be alone. Wants to remain friends so she doesn't have to feel TOTALLY alone, but can't give any more than that. It's emotionally impossible for her. She is 'worn out'

Remember, this is hypothetical, so no judgements please.

Assuming ALL the above is true, how should I act, can I turn it round, can 'we' get it back together and if so, how?

Just for once guys n gals....see it from the above perspective, NO reading between the lines, assume the above is nothing but factual.

Thanks for your indulgence...

Peace Out.

But that's not exactly what happened. When the R began, things went OK, but you reverted back to old behaviors, drinking, ignoring, and she believed you had changed, so it made it even harsher.

You have much ground to cover my friend, BUT, I think there is at least an EA happening, or else she would still be in the home...at least that is my best guess.