I guess I should first apologize for posting again... seems I'm doing this alot lately.<P>Things with my H are very, very bad right now. I'd like to think that this is temporary, but I'm not the only one who sees this as the "beginning of the end". My H sees it this way, even more than I do.<P>And so, we ended the weekend on a horrible note and off I went in to work again to face the OM. Today, I was told by several of my co-workers that I seem distant, forgetful, not myself any more. I was told that it sounds like my H is emotionally abusing me (call it what you will, I never have seen it as abuse, but we both get pretty mouthy and love-busty... not actually a word, of course) and that we should end it. I have continued to beg my H to go to counseling, even agreeing to see the minister at the church he likes (and that church is a WHOLE other story, if you remember) even though I want a real licensed counselor. He will not go. He complains because we don't have the passion he sees in movies like "City of Angels". In fact, I agreed, against my better judgement, to watch that movie last night. Bad move. Because later, when we might have made love, he wouldn't allow it unless I could muster up enough passion as Meg Ryan - which may sound funny, but believe me wasn't - and so we just didn't do it at all. He said if it couldn't be the way he wanted it, it wasn't happening at all.<P>I come here always looking for hope. I hate who I've become. Trust me when I say that I have always had a great sense of humor, been fun and funny, optomistic and friendly. Lately, I am weighted down in pain and agony. I can barely function at my job. My doctor says I'm not depressed, that my feelings are normal for what I'm going through. I have asthma, and it's gotten worse lately. I eat too much. In short, I'm a mess.<P>So, I'm on the other side of the coin (betrayer) who's as physically and emotionally messed up as the betrayed. The thing about my side is this: I caused it. Ultimately, I caused this all by myself. My H used to see his part in the marriage problems, but lately all he does is blame me for his problems. Yesterday he told me that I was souly responsible for his smoking for the last 15 yrs. Me alone. He has too much stress and it's all my fault. <P>And let me tell you how this all makes me feel: lonely. And, frankly... (and god forgive me for what I'm about to say, but) lonely for the OM. I will NEVER go back to him, but I think about it. My H asked me about it this weekend and I told him it's normal to think about sometimes, especially when things are bad. He doesn't remember feeling that way when he had his affairs, he says. So, once again, I'm an idiot.<P>I know I sound like such a downer, and I apologize in advance for this vent. I really thought we could do this, but it's becomming increasingly clearer that we won't. <P>Pray for a miracle, 'cause that's what it's gonna take for us.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Not sure I know what the answer is, but for me sometimes it helps to look at the big picture and learn to have patience. I am reading a book (How, Then Shall We Live? Four Simple Questions That Reveal the Beauty and Meaning of Our Lives, by Wayne Muller). The four questions that are addressed in the book are: Who Am I? What do I Love? How Shall I Live, Knowing I Will Die? and What is My Gift to the Family of the Earth? For the past year I have been plodding along in my life thinking that what I needed to make my life meaningful was to have a good marriage and find a new job. What I am finally starting to realize is that there is much more to life than that. One part of the book that is really helping me to find some patience in dealing with my marital problems is the question on How Shall I Live, Knowing I Will Die? Last night and today I tried keying in on trying to live my life and relate to my wife knowing that I could die today or tommorrow. I ask my self how should I react to my wife and our problems, knowing that this could be my last day to live. My answer is that I will try to continue to love her and accept some of her reactions to me and also realize that she is not all that life is about. I also realize that the problems we are dealing with are not that critical in the big scheem of life. <P>Just some thoughts.<P>Hope things work out for you.

cheryl,<P>I'm sorry you're feeling the way you are. It seems that so many on this board (*not just you*), in just the last few days, have all expressed feelings of resignation.<P>I think this could be partially accountable to the pre-holiday blues (PHB). I know I'm and dreading my first Thanksgiving without the kids... my first Christmas (with part of the time without the kids) and so on...<P>I hope that this(PHB) is what it really is. God wants us all to be happy... our spouses are fighting those happy feelings! Go back to who doesn't LB, doesn't judge, doesn't yell...<P>Hey, how about a <P>Jim<P>--------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Tim,<P>Sounds like a wonderful book. Maybe when I get paid I'll pick it up. Sounds like just the kind of thing I usually love to read... thank you.<P>Jim,<P>I know. Is it a full moon or something? I haven't felt this bad about my marriage since, since... well, never! Not when my H cheated on me twice (and then added the tip of another before he stopped it) and not when I cheated. This is the most awful pain I've ever, ever felt. I feel inside out. Raw. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

I'm sorry you are feeling so much pain. Give it a little time before you give it a label.<P>Even if you have to learn and implement better communication and conflict techniques by yourself, do it.<P>I would whither and die if H and I yelled at each other.<P>It just can not be productive and help you reach your goal of recovery.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Sheryl - don't apologize. Look who else is up after lying in bed for two hours and not being able to sleep! And I have to get up in just a few hours!<P>It's the bottom. I think it's just a bad time. Sometimes it goes like that. And it seems to be running rampant lately. You just gotta hold on until you get through this. Just hold on.<P>I don't have good advice. Just wanted you to know I was here and thinking about you. Hang on. This too will pass. I have faith in you.<P>Lori

Hey Sheryl,<P>Well guess what? I'm in that kinda resigned place tonite too. I came home from work in a pretty good mood. I kissed my wife in a playful manner and gave her a hug. Asked her how her day was, and she said stressful and not fun. She said she wanted to quit. She sounded like she meant it, but then she laughed a little after that... I took that as my queue to go to the little boys room (which I had to do after the long commute home). <P>I came back and my wife was very cold-shoulderish, so I asked her what was wrong. She said "I just had a bad day at work, that's all." (actually I can tell when she's mad at me and when she's just stressed from work, and the cold-shoulder wasn't cuz of work stress!). I tried to massage her shoulder a little, but she said "Not that you care anyway." So I just said, "OK, whatever..." and sat down and had a drink (a good stiff screwdriver!). Now, I of course, know that she's probably angry because I didn't support her for wanting to quit her job (we've talked about her not working anymore, but I know we wouldn't be able to live off my salary alone), but I was actually trying to comfort her without getting into the whole "her-not-working" conversation.<P>Normally I let this kinda stuff slide, but I'm just tired of the struggle today. I'm tired. I wanna take a day off. I don't want to "work at it" today. Damn. I just want to relax sometime and be happy. <P>So now it's been cold-shoulder time all night, and frankly, I don't care right now. It's easier to just be in separate rooms right now and not talk to each other. <P>arrgh!<BR>--andy

Sheryl e-mail me if you have a chance ( lwnd@hotmail.com). WE need to talk <P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

FHL,<P>Try as I might, I can't seem to shake this. I will try not to give it a label, but this is hell. I know, about the techniques for communication, because I was in counseling for.. uh,... a LONG time alone. It all goes out the window when we talk anymore. It's horrible.<P>Lori,<P>I SURE hope you're right about this being "just" the bottom. That implies that it will go up at some time. <P>airheart,<P>Geez... what else can I say. We live in a parallel universe, you and me. Sad, isn't it? <P>kat,<P>I emailed you just now (10:10 pacific standard time) but will be off of the computer in about 15 minutes. I will check tomorrow morning before I go to work, as I can't access my home email from there. I'll also check here, which as we all know, I access from work all the ding-dong day! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

hi new_beginning<BR>I watched City of Angels and absolutely bawled all the way from half way through to the end. It totally *shattered me* to watch the love scene, thats just how it is after being betrayed. My friend saw it and said she didnt think it was very sad at all...meanwhile I was sobbing like maniac<BR>I have also raised the passion issue so many times with my H I must sound like a broken record..it was perhaps the biggest issue for me to get over...that he supposedly had this "passion" we all read about in affairs with her and how can a marriage compare to an affair situation. So I think the things you are going through are pretty normal (well at least to me) and I think you have to continue to be strong and NOT "run away" even in your mind to the OM. My husband also is a "runner" big time. Lets face it if you had actually had a committment to the OM and cheated on him Im sure he would be lovebusting just the same as your H is at the moment.Im not sure if any of this helped, I think maybe your H is in the anger stage at the moment? It is tough, it does take a long time but an affair can be gotten over, but only if youre both willing to stay strong. You know sometimes I think the tougher it is (the more the pain is expressed) the better the affair is overcome in the long term.<BR>Remember when this happens again behind anger is PAIN. Good luck, youll make it!<BR>P.S. What was it like when you were recovering from his affair, was it the same? <BR>did you have the same issues?

I may be totally off the mark here, but this may be a test. I did this numerous times to my husband after her betrayed me. I would intentionally get him angry to see if he would go back to the OM for support. He never did. He passed. Maybe that was wrong, but it's all I knew how to do at the time. In a way, I also thought it would be easier if he cheated again, that way I could leave and not have to deal with the pain anymore. Now that things are going so well, I can't imaginge doing that. DON'T GIVE UP!

new_beginning: I am the "betrayed" although a year and a half ago, I have to admit that being the "betrayer" looked appealing to me, more than once. I can't tell you how many times I would dread getting out of bed in the morning. When I did get up, I would count the hours off, until it was time to get back in it again. That was the only thing that I looked forward to. <P>If you are a "mess" then I was a "triple mess." As far as I was concerned, my life was not worth living, and I could never see my husband and I having a future. Things DO change! Please, please, please don't give up. If you want your marriage to succeed, hold onto it with everything that you have. When you feel like you can't go on, just give yourself that extra little push to go that much further. Remember: When you feel that you are at the end of your rope, tie a knot, and hang on. I'm sending nothing but happy thoughts your way. Good Luck.<P><P>------------------<BR><BR>SUCCESS STORY<P>

new beginning--<P>I'm sorry you're so down lately.<P>I don't necessarily think that just because you can't muster up enough passion for your husband (like in the movies) that something is wrong with your relationship.<P>I don't know, maybe I'm defending myself, but I haven't felt "movie-like" passion for my husband in a long time. I think alot of people are in the same boat...it's probably normal. So, try not to let that get you down.

Can't say anything that hasn't already been said....(((hugs)))<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>

Hi New Beginning,<BR> <BR> First I want to tell you how much I've learned from your posts and admire your sincerity and honesty. From my perspective, I think you need "emotional rehab"....you need to stop worrying about your H right now and try to heal YOURSELF. 2 weeks ago my H and I were at our very lowest, I was depressed, obsessing about our marriage....I honestly thought there was no way out...I consciously said to myself "enough worrying about him, I need to gain back my sanity". I stopped thinking about him and started exercising and thinking of the positives in my life...and what could bring me joy. My mood has lifted, the obsession with "the relationship" has ended and the fog is lifting.....I think NB, you are trying too hard to fix the relationship and not working on yourself and gaining back your self esteem.....even though I was the betrayed I've been there and it's a terrible place....<BR>Can you take a mental break from the "relationship" and do something to help the "wounded" you?...I know I sound like a New Ager,(I'm not !) but the change in my life right now is unbelievable.....Lu

Just a note to those of you who have answered since my last reply. <P>Thank you, and I will respond when I get home tonight. I'm at work and can only lurk a bit while here. I appreciate your replies! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

First of all, thank you guys for responding. I reply to each of you below, but in looking it over, I realize that I didn't say how much I appreciate each of you. Please know that I do!<P>azure,<P>Yup, the worst movie for us to watch right now! My H is an incurable romantic, and really expects the mush of new love to somehow grab us and sweep us off our feet. Problem is: it hasn't and I suspect won't. Old love like ours isn't like new love. Yes, there's a passion, but not the same kind we had 20 yrs. ago. I also agree about his anger being pain. It's just so hard to take lately.<P>hurtone, <P>I thought of that - a test. But, hey, I haven't studied . I feel like I couldn't possibly pass right now. I am so tired, so whipped, so far gone... the LAST thing I need is a test. But I do see what you're saying, and hope that this isn't one.<P>why me,<P>Beleive me, I haven't even scratched the surface of this head of mine. I've been "triple messed" like you. Thought of killing myself, layed in the fetal position crying my eyes out for longer during the last six months than all the 39 yrs. before them. I'm sorry that you've felt this kind of pain too. It's terrible beyond words.<P>Holly, <P>I'm fine with not feeling that kind of passion. It's my H. He wants it, needs it... frankly, demands it. It's tearing my heart out because he is such a beautiful man in so many ways. We just "lost it" somewhere along the line and can't seem to find it. I'd be fine to "look for it" but he isn't.<P>joanie,<P>Thanks for the hugs, and one big one back at ya!!<P>Lu,<P>Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I agree, I have been put on the back burner. I thought I deserved it for what I'd done. But that's been over for months, and lasted for less time than it's been over. I do need to work on me. I'm thinking of finding a counselor just for me, since my H won't go. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 19, 1999).]