This is how WW "sees" it Mel....I was gonna edit my last post to reflect that. I told my kids that it is still wrong.

I am not "willingly" going along with it!! "Legally" I cannot make her leave!! She will only leave with the kids!! It's a catch22 for me.

Looks like your WW has done a very good job of gas-lighting poor D12. When you talked to D12, did you talk about what a M was truly about, or did you just say that you were "still M'd"? From your D12's comments, it seems she has this concept that M is just like a boyfriend/girlfriend thing for grownups, not a lifetime commitment made by two people to stay with each other through thick and thin.

Also, I suggest considering asking your WW about those untruthful things she said to your DDs while your DDs are present and listening, also query into her asking D9 to keep things from you. Don't let it turn into an argument. Her responses should be enough to help you DDs decide who they can really trust.

Carp, what have your DD's been taught about adultery? Have they been given ANY moral guidance?

I would emphasize that doing nothing while she flaunts this in front of your own kids is very harmful to your kids. When you say something is wrong and do nothing about it, it sends the message to kids that NO ONE IS IN CHARGE. And no one IS.

How does your wife rationalize this, Carp? Is my scenario about "separation" correct? Like I said, it is RARE that a WW is this brazen and I don't understand this.

Have you gone along with this sick, sordid set up before you got here? Did she gaslight you?

Then WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? WHEN IS YOUR COURT DATE?? WHERE IS YOUR TEMPORARY SEPARATION GETTING HER MOVED OUT!?? CARP!! People separate every day all across this nation. You are not an endentured servant.

And yes, you are willingly going along with it if nothing is being done to get her out!

MiM

I did not just say "because we are M"

I told them I still love their mom and everyone in our house.

The secret thing I will get to when I can go thru this mornings chat with WW

People throw their spouses out of their jointly-owned house ALL THE TIME!

You are just too chicken to do it.

Gah

IMO his WW is doing that because:

1. She has no respect for Carp, period
2. She was advised to stay in the home by her lawyer
3. There's been no consequence for her actions
4. As far as she's concerned, she's no longer M'd

Carp better take note that, while his WW continues to stay home, she's also poisoning the minds of their DDs. D12 already appears to think that it's acceptable for mum and dad to have boyfriends and girlfriends and it's Carp that's causing all the problems.

It's a horrible situation. I'm thinking that if Carp tries to take any action like throwing her clothes out if she stays out with OM, it might escalate into something worse (like WW calling the police and claiming domestic abuse, for example). And what's stopping her from putting all of his clothes out in retaliation when he leaves the home to go to work, etc.?

My last meeting with my lawyer we put together my last proposal and I told my lawyer....next step is court I don't want to throw anymore money at paperwork!!

The legal system is not fast. I am at their mercy.

Yes, but did you explain what a M entails? What the commitment really means?

CArp, by doing nothing about this, your DD's are getting the signal, loud and clear, that is it acceptable to move into the spare room, declare oneself "seperated" and commit open and flagrant adultery.

Your lack of action is seen as endorsement at worst and IMPOTENCE at best. Both are horrible messages to send to children. If this is wrong, then why aren't you defending their family from this wrongdoing? There is no leader here, Carp. No leadership. No action. NO ONE is protecting them!

The lunatics are running the asylum and your DD's are the victims of that. Your DD's have been so gaslighted that your "talks" come across as nothing more than "he said, she said" where they are taking sides. Your oldest is taking sides with the CHEATER. That is the result of INACTION. If mom is wrong and adultery is bad, then why is she allowed to cheat so openly and brazenly? To a kid, the proof is in the pudding. \

This borders on child abuse, Carp, to expose kids to this. It just makes me ill.

This pretty much sums it up!

The word "respect" or "disrespectful"....when it comes to us carries no weight with her.
Her lawyer told her don't leave and if he confronts you call the cops.
Consequences....she accepts them all!!
She is done....when I foind out about the A she told me the day "we" were done.

I am at a loss for what to do next.......

My mom brought up a good point last night....what is moral...what is right...what is the truth...and what is legal are all different things!!

\

What is your lawyer doing about this situation? WHAT IS CARP DOING?

Reading over your conversation with your D12, I think much of her D12's comments above are really your WWs. She's using your D12 as her mouthpiece. Your WS is truly despicable for doing that. However, this episode underlines how IMPORTANT it is to tell your kids the truth and teach what's right, before they hear the twisted version from the mouth of a WS.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this.

My lawyer says to keep up what I am doing. The custody battle for me is uphill but not impossible. The police thing/email/letters are not real bad for me.

What am I doing?
I am being the best dad, husband, person I can be rite now.
I have made improvements in areas she has complained about before
I journal everything everyday since beginning of august
I am working plan A...it sucks. I have read here that plan B with kids and living in the same house can be a mess legally.

First off, there is no such thing as Plan B while living together, that is an oxymoron. Plan B means a separation. Nor are there legal problems to Plan B. It is not against the law in any state in this union to not talk to your spouse. We have many WS' THREATEN legal problems; but that is not a legal problem, it is benign bovine flatulence.


Which is absolutely nothing other than enabling your wife to EAT CAKE and corrupt your DD's by flaunting her filthy affair while their dad sits by and does absolutely nothing. Have you considered getting a lawyer that works for YOU? You are stuck in a horrendous state of limbo while your wife abuses you and corrupts your DD's. The answer is to separate and get her out. Why can't this be done?

Have you put your house on the market? Will you be staying in the house? I mean, CARP, what is the PLAN here?

Mel

Seperating to my WW means she takes the girls. Which would you rather see? Even if I agree to 50/50 that means I have no control half the time. Rite now I am the homework, dinner, doctor, shower time, room cleaning, chore enforcing, goofing off, cd making, iPod helping parent....everyday.

I am keeping the house...even WW agrees to this. I will not refinance until every legal paper is signed....certainly don't want to give her any $ at all!!!
Me staying in the house means no interruption of school, friends, daily life, etc for my kids...this is another positive for me on the legal front.
I have letters from my dad and another person...that has watched my kids before and is from church...stating they will assist me in before school care after divorce....another plus for me.

I correspond via email with my kids teachers....plus again.


Am I missing anything else??

LEGALLY an affair is ok....it makes all of us sick....what else can I do? I live in Illinois....adultery affects divorce not at all. My WWs actions on the other hand...hopefully will affect custody.

All,

I can see the situation that Carp is in and it sucks! In my case, my wife left willingly, and erronously thought that later on, once she was established, that she would be able to come back and get custody. Well, of course, that didnt happen!

In Carp's case, his wife has been adequately advised not to leave, as she would almost assuredly be guilty of abandonment and lose custody. So, the ONLY reason she is still in the house is she wants to take the kids with her.

Now, what recourse does Carp have?

1. He could try to throw her out, taking her stuff and dropping it on the front lawn or the OM's doorstep. Result: Carp would be viewed as the aggressor here, and the most likely outcome would be that HE would be removed from his own home. So, this isnt a good choice.

2. He could do nothing and wait for the chips to fall where they may. This also isnt a good choice, for the reasons Melody has raised above. The chief among them is the damage that his daughters are going through.

3. Negotiate a settlement with his wife to get her to leave. Okay, IF she will do that...and IF she would agree to something that is agreeable to Carp, then this would work. But, Mrs. Carp sounds like the Cake Eating Queen. I doubt she would agree to anything except total surrender by Carp. If she would agree to at least 50-50 with the girls and no money exchanged (except that stated by law), then that might be a consideration. But, my guy feeling is that she wouldnt go for it. She believes she is entitled and will win custody, so in her mind, there is no way Carp can do anything.

4. Carp could leave. But, then he would be guilty of that which we described in #1 for his wife. Not good at all.

So, what are his other options at this point. Well, the only option left is to aggressively pursue the custody hearing. Push the paperwork, and demand it all.

My wife before we went to court the first time, told me straight out "there is no way yo uare going to get the kids. I am their mother." Two weeks later, I had primary custody and she was paying me child support. It was at that point the fog began to blow away because she began to feel the consequences of her sins.

Mrs. Carp is going to have to feel the same, I think. She is going to have to lose big...before her entitlement syndrome is uver shadowed by reality.

So, my suggestion here is to get all of your info, all of your ammo...and press the fight to her. At this point, I would suspend all but the basics of Plan A. I would tell my lawyer to file IMMEDIATELY for custody (primary and full). I would continue my intel gathering to make sure all of my bases are covered.

And around my WW, I would begin to act confident and secretive. Make her think you know more than her. Make her worried that you have something she hasnt thought of. Make her begin to suspect that she might not have a lock on things. Make her worried.

No more long conversations...just statements of fact. And push the fight to her. You see, a WW who begins to panic will make a WHOLE BUNCH of mistakes. Ones that will benefit you, Carp.

So, that would be my plan. Get things rolling, collect intel that will help your case, get counselors, teachers, etc to get on your side (you will have to be subtle and "manipulate" them into seeing things your way). Document EVERYTHING you do and she does with the kids.

Throwing her out is no choice at this time. But, you do have things to do. Press the fight and take the battle into her back yard. Make her begin defending herself.

This is EXACTLY what I had in mind. He needs to get his attorney working FOR HIM and get this thing moving along. Someone needs to LEAD THIS SHOW. This has become the WAYWARD WIFE CAKEEATING SHOW and it is having disasterous effects on his daughters.

Kicking her out and/or changing the locks will only HARM him legally when this flagrantly entitled WW calls the police. This is about the most FLAGRANT case I have ever seen here. This one has NO SHAME at all.

MM

I could not have wrote a better "script" myself!! My thumbs would be bleeding!!

Mel

Intel is being gathered and will be shared with my lawyer this week.
I will post up transcript of this mornings chat later....WW knows I am smart, thinks the whole house is wired for sound. I threw her off by saying the kids did not like keeping secrets from me....of course she told them to NOT do that..more BS from her.
I NEVER share legal info with her....if I record something I don't even flinch that I know....she is scared...I think she is.....she told me this morning.....look at al the things YOU did to his famiy.....she brought up the secret thing....and wanted to know how my not telling HER about the letters wasn't a secret!!!