LINK ... to a post describing how a former WS can render care to some of the wounds of their BS .... an inspiring piece to say the least ....

and it will cost you N O T H I N G but your time and your care

BigPicture,

I read what you wrote about not having private time with your wife because your teenagers knock on the bedroom door.

Mine did, too. We even had one night when our daughters were away for the night, spending the night at friends' homes. We KNEW we were safe, right?

Wrong. We were very safe and happy, loving.....and then we heard two voices and the door opening. Shock of our lives! The girls had decided to walk the two blocks home and sleep at OUR HOUSE!!!!!!!!


So we had a family discussion. The closed door was off limits. It meant we were not to be disturbed by anyone for any reason except the following:

bleeding
possible broken bones
vomiting
epileptic seizure, fainting, or coma
fires
intruders
phone calls that include the words "death, emergency room, or hospitalization"
thought of possible need for 9-1-1 calls

They were instructed to note that this list did not include:

sibling disagreements regarding television or games
clothing issues
school related issues including forgotten homework
desire for renting or viewing videos
food desires
personal care issues, including hair disasters
make-up, or pimple problems
boyfriend issues
friends who wanted to come over or vice-versa


You get the idea. We let them know, in no uncertain terms, that unhappy parents were parents who had no alone time. That unhappiness runs DOWNHILL.

They were made to understand that they were downhill from us.


SB

Ahuman,

I'm with Pep on this one. Like I said waaay back in this thread, your husband is using the affair against you in virtually everything that goes on in the marriage. This isn't fair.

You've helped him in this, because you've pretty much taken the blame and accepted that your affair was the problem.

But the truth is that the marriage had problems at the point where you had the affair - that the both of you have things to work on. He has to take ownership of his share, and you do for your share.

There is an imbalance here, and the two of you are not a team. You are trying to be everything in the marriage, and somewhere in there the two of you implicitly decided that you had to do that, because - after all - you had the affair, so YOU fix the marriage????????



Wrong.


Glad you're calling the Harleys, because you need them.

Hope you read Pep's links.


SB

AH,
Maybe your spouse should hear this 10 times a day! Have you read The 5 languages of Love??? I read how you were meeting needs head over heels for a time for SF, etc. and now you are running out of steam trying to prove your new ways and changes... hmmm???... Spouse did not react to these or improve ever or very little?? Maybe you are speaking the wrong language though it seems you were speaking all of them. I agree totally that he needs to step up and start putting effort into it not just holding grudges. Again I stick with the KISS method. You are simply teaching him to avoid LBing no?? Cherished has figured it out!

Anyway congrats on your post of progress and success! This forum saves marriages!! Yeah!

Offering him the kids is the right thing for her to do.

It alleviates the unfair burden of her BS losing his children because of HER behavior AND it proves she's remorseful.

Recovery is all talk unless you are willing to play for keeps.

It was obviously something she has thought about based on her last post. Something just tells me she doesn't have the guts.

Ahuman:

Some, the great Pep, have offered you good advice to fixing your marriage.

Others are just imposing on you things that they are unwilling to do in thier own marriage or wish they spouses would do for THEM.

Ignore the crap and read the good stuff.

So, your recovery hasn't gone that well.

And you have a lousy spose. Yes, BS's can be lousy spouses as well.

But your HERE. And that is a plus. You CAN make this better.

Or, leave this lousy person and remove the cancer from your life.

And let the courts decide what is yours, and what is his.

Sheesh.

LG

Why? Because it would make *you* feel better? The OP is not here to make you feel better about your own marriage or your own wife. She's here to get help with her recovery. Suggesting that she walk away from her marriage and leave her children behind is stupid advice and its only intent is to be punitive.

BTW, the purpose of a post-nup is so that if the WS cheats again, marital assets are forfeited. As a FWW, I have no trouble with that, I'd sign in a minute if my H requested it. But a post-nup is not a vehicle so that after 5 years of unsucessful recovery with no further infidelity the WS can be punished.

Ahuman, your recovery is stalled. I am going to disagree with LG here, I don't think your BS is a lousy husband. But he is trapped in a cycle of anger and you are doing him no favors by accepting his behavior outwardly but resenting it deeply inside. At some point both of you have to live in the now if your marriage is to survive and move forward. I hope that you call the Harleys and that they can help.

Actually it won't make me feel anything. Where do you come up with that one?

It will likely make her BH feel better though.

Like most father's, I'm sure he cares more about the kids rather than marital assets.

It's really a shame that FWW's don't understand. Why should any BS have to ask for something that should be offered?

This place is littered with BS's who have had their children stolen from them.

I agree. It appears that the sole purpose of a few bitter members for being on this board is to bash FWW whenever possible.

I'm a BH and not really sure I would want my WW to 'give' up our children just to make me happy or secure. I hate what she did and how she didn't put me or our children 1st during the A but what would it say about her after the A is over that she would be still willing to still put her children 2nd by giving them up to me? I strongly buy in the MB principles but would question any mother (or father) that would be willing to give up custody of their children so easily for anybody including their spouse.

Ahuman, If your head isn't spinning by now it's not because we haven't tried with all the VERY varied types of advice. One thing to remember is that EVERYONE is trying to help you.

Please remember to take all advice with a grain of salt and only apply it if it makes sense for YOU and your HUSBAND'S PARTICULAR SITUATION. Like I posted earlier one size does not fit all and what worked for some other couple MAY NOT work for you guys. Your recovery is stalled and you need to change direction.

I do have a suggestion that worked VERY WELL for my wife and I.

One day she finally asked me WITHOUT ME BRINGING IT UP what I was DYING to hear:

WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM ME TO HEAL? You need to ask your husband the same. Ask him what it is that he needs and then HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE!!!

If they are unreasonable or unfair refuse them because love does not do that. At that point you let him know it's a two way street and what YOU need to heal. If he refuses you know the answer rather than an endless wait for someone who's goal is not to heal but rather to punish you the rest of your life...

My FWW had been hung up for a very long time (like you guys) because she was doing what her mind told her I needed. It doesn't work that way because even though she had tried what her mind told her to do IT WAS NOT WHAT I NEEDED!

What I needed to get from her was what she gave the OM and I am not talking about what some posters are saying about it. It's not nearly as simple as a sex act here or there.

I WANTED HER TO FORGIVE ME FOR NOT BEING A BETTER HUSBAND!!!

I WANTED HER TO FORGIVE ME SO THAT SHE COULD BEGIN TO GIVE HERSELF TO ME WITHOUT HOLDING BACK WHICH IS WHAT SHE GAVE THE OM!!!

Once she had forgiven me and no longer held resentment for my failures as a husband it freed her to forgive herself which is vital to YOUR recovery.

At that point I DID get much, much more than the OM ever got.

I got my wife back...

Please consider.

God bless.

Jim

And you know this how? You're speaking strictly from what would make you feel better. It would not have made my husband feel better. It would not make many BSs feel better. There's something pretty d@mn creepy about a mother who would willingly walk away from her kids because she felt guilty about her affair. It's disordered thinking, even if you feel that it's the thing to do.


Yet you're lumping them all together, like chattel. But I'll bet she gets to keep the debt, right?


Oh, I understand a great deal.

And this place is also littered, as you put it, with BSs whose spouses walked away and left their children to pursue their affair. Some of these WS were men. So is that the right thing to do?

I think not.

My point is that it makes sense to deal with the situation of the OP. A marriage where the recovery is stalled. And if the marriage isn't working out 5 years into recovery, it's naive to believe that it's simply due to the affair. There's a lot more that's gone on in the ensuing 5 years.

Great post PK...ITA!

Good grief, in the highly unlikely event that Mr. W and I split at this point, I can assure you that it would NOT be because of the affair...[and he would wholeheartedly agree with me on that] But if we did split, I can guarantee you that he would NOT wish for our DD to have to do without her mom, just as I would not wish for her to do without her dad - our main focus would be on the well being of our sweet dd, and NOT on some "marital scoreboard"...

Of course this is all very far-fetched as neither one of us can envision splitting up...

Mrs. W

How is offering the kids the right thing to do? They aren't possessions.

The OP mentioned herself there is a likelyhood her BS is staying in the marriage until the kids are gone. That would imply he does not want to lose his children. If she is this totally remorseful wife she claims to be then let her sacrifice instead of forcing him to. She CHEATED. She CAUSED this problem.

Oh, and about the creepy comment about a mom who would walk away from her kids and leave them to their father? NOTHING is creepier than a mom who would leave her children to have sex with a stranger while still married to their father all the while LYING to her children and husband! THAT"S CREEPY!

And the comment about a lousy BS? That just makes me

OH, something else...

Nearly always you WW's stand to lose nothing for dropping your drawers. However, your husbands will lose their children because you couldn't keep them on.

Spend a little time reading the 'just found out' husbands posts. Nearly evey one says 'I don't want to lose my children'.

Any (F)WW who claims remorse and wants to 'prove' it should tell their spouse....

"BS, I love you so much and am so sorry for betraying your love that I will offer you an uncontested divorce and custody because this was 100% MY FAULT. I will NOT try to keep you in this marriage by using your fear of losing the children as bait. I MESSED up. If we split, you should not suffer for MY FAULTS".

Here's what she said:



An implication based on a speculation is worthless.

Perhaps ahuman's H is staying so that his children will have an intact family - you know, the kind where both mother and father are present. Perhaps he is staying also because he still loves his wife, although he doesn't know how to deal with his anger. The only thing we know for sure is that the marriage has continued, although recovery is limping along.

I do think that ahuman ought to speak to her H plainly instead of trying to read his mind. I don't under any circumstances whatsoever think she should offer to leave and leave him the children, since it has the effect of making it look like she is considering checking out of the marriage rather than doing the harder work of recovery. That is why I posted in the first place.


Five years out from her infidelity, that's just not the case. And if you've read your Harley, you know that sacrifice is not good for a marriage. The OP has expressed the desire to save her marriage many times. Telling her to sacrifice is not marriage building advice. It's advice that's coming from a your desire to see her punished, IMHO.


Neither gender has the market cornered on creepiness when it comes to infidelity. It's an equal opportunity offense.


That's why I said I disagreed. I don't think he's lousy - I think he's stuck and could use help. I think ahuman is just as stuck.

penaltykill, You stated that "Five years out from her infidelity, thats just not the case".

I believe it depends on a case by case basis not that it is always this or that. It depends on the individual dynamics in their marriage.

It also depends on the efforts from both persons in the marriage to heal not on how many years have elapsed since the affair.

Since my wife had not forgiven herself or me she could not open up to give me more effort than she gave him. She still felt so guilty and angry both at herself and me that she could not give ANYONE as much as she gave the OM.

When you are angry at someone you are darn sure not going to give them the best that you have to give.

When we forgave each other the love my wife had for me was allowed to be brought forth and THAT is when the healing started for BOTH of us because I saw that I was worth more than the OM AND that she saw that she was truly forgiven.

At that point the balance was restored.

I WAS NO LONGER ANGRY AT HER BECAUSE SHE WAS GIVING ME MORE THAN THE OM AND I TREATED HER AS THOUGH SHE HAD NEVER HAD THE AFFAIR!!!

Time has NOTHING to do with it.

Harley talks about removing the problems in the marriage that made the affair possible to affair proof your marriage. That has to happen and if her BS feels he is getting less EFFORT than the OP he can NEVER heal and it won't matter how many years it's been.

It also is true that for an individual to heal from the affair that the problems THE AFFAIR CAUSED must be removed also.

If one spouse feels that they are receiving less than the OP did their perception is that they are worth less than the OP and healing is impossible.

God bless.

Jim

Jim-Flint:

Excellent post, excellent points. You're absolutely right; time is not enough. It's actions during that time that count.

I am glad that you are your W were able to figure out what you needed to do to forgive and heal in your marriage.

Take care.

PK

Interesting binary spread of opinions here. Allow me to add mine…(it's sort of in the middle)...

AH had multiple adulteries within a year or three of getting married. She is an early-onset serial LTA adulteress – she was practicing her chosen trade with expertese and with gusto while her husband believed they were still in their honeymoon period and while her children were mere babies.

Thus:

If there were no children her BH definitely should D her. Even Dr H recommends so in that situation.

So, it is entirely logical to speculate his stuckidness is the children. He must love them very much to still be there around her after all she has done. He must want to provide a stable family for the children even more than he no longer likes AH and wishes he had never met her.

It is tearing him apart. He has PTSD. He has developed involuntary tics. He is lost beyond measure.

So, is it too late for him? Him - not the M.

It no longer depends much on AH and her forced act of emotional need meeting. It requires getting serious professional help for himself. He needs a lot of help and even genuine (whch we do not have here) ENing no longer applies. (Probably never did, actually.)

And besides, I think AH is in fact lying quite a bit. Her posts are riddled with advance justifications. The fog in them is thick. She already has a plan, and whatever it is it isn’t for her BH's long term benefit.

This five year issue is irrelevant. AH not only wasted those precious years, she used them to add to his pain. Experts tend to agree it takes two years or as long as the adultery(s) lasted for the BS to achieve substantial personal recovery. BH still would have a year to go even if AH had done the right things from the beginning.


Really? IMO you would not recognize genuine bitter if it jumped up and bit you on the butt. What you see here is overwhelming pain and loss. But you have no clue.


You know, virtually all WS and FWS say this. It’s in the adultery manual. In reality it would be primarily because of your adultery, no matter how long ago. The planted seed as it were. You would ever admit it though. – that’s also in the WW/FWW manual.


I am curious. If your H came to you tomorrow and said he now wants a PN, what would you do? Would you think him bitter?

Knowing, of course, even Dr H says never fully trust your spouse again after adultery, and you shouldn’t have in the first place. So what is so wrong with a PN at any time? It seems very MB, actually.

Of course, having a PN enforced is almost impossible. Courts do not like them much at all. A spouse cannot sign away their legal rights - not even willingly.