Thanks for this info. We are both free for the next one the end of March and will talk to our farm sitter and see if she can do those two days. If not I have a little time to arrange things in a different manner so we can go.

It is very pricey but it seems to be less so when I read about the follow-up and the success everyone has had. It seems a small price to pay to save this M since we can afford to do it. I just keep telling myself this is a few months of OWs groceries we are not paying for anymore! Makes it easy for me .

That is a great suggestion but since he probably just read this I doubt I would get any answers I have not already gotten!

All will come out eventually, it seems it has but you never know till you go through all the steps I guess.

I am feeling somewhat encouraged today, yesterday not so much. If I had read this yesterday my answer would have been much different. This rollercoaster is not fun and I LOVE rollercoasters.

Thank you.

I do too and you are right....THIS rollercoaster bites.

And unfortunately, it's a very long one.

Back to the beginning. Will this ever stop?

Well, this addition of my husband to this forum is not quite what I thought it would be...I thought I would feel better because I thought I was ready for this. It is working, that is certain, but not in ways I thought.

When I first found out about the A it took about 2 weeks for him to come clean with the magnitude of the 6 year long life he had built with this woman. I told him I needed absolute honesty because if I ever found out about more it would send me right back to the initial stages of this horrible recovery. I told him I was willing to work on it but only if he stopped hurting me and our M and let me start with all the truth. About a month and a half into it he told me she had been threatening him and requesting hush money. He corresponded with her and sent her a large sum of money. Back to square one. About 2 weeks after that he came clean with about 12 interesting and very hurtful truths he had been hiding. Last night, after reading here and then looking at the forums I questioned him about something others had been asking. I asked him if the two of them had seriously talked about their life if and when he left me. She is really not the kind of woman you plan a future with. Before he had said that she had but he had not. Well, that is not entirely true. She had talked about it but he had listened and spoke about it some (some, sure it was only some). Then I asked him to tell me truthfully how seriously he was in love with her because he has been stalling with that answer. After 6 years you can imagine his answer was more than it had been before. He told me he was out of love with me for many many years. The story goes on and here I am back at the beginning EXCEPT I have tools now and some working knowledge about this.

I was getting ready to throw this all into Recovery and I think, if someone will advise me how to do that without starting all of this over (should I just link these two threads and start a new one in Recovery?), I am ready because I see that we really had not progressed. There were still lies and probably still are. He hesitated with me when I told him I was going to schedule a polygraph. "Have you told me everything?" Hemming and hawing he said he had to think if there was anything he had left out. After doing this monsterous work now for getting on 4 months I can't imagine an answer like that if there was not more so I am now back at the beginning of recovery and about to throw in the towel. Well, at this moment I am but you know how that goes.

Hi Sad,

First, I wouldn't move your posts around to different boards, people lose the thread, so to speak. Just keep this one going.

Well, if you read your H's thread, you can see I'm not his favorite person. I think he is a master manipulator who has learned to say what he needs to say to get his way in his marriage, and even after getting busted on repeated lies -- even in the course of a handful of posts here --he grovels and pleads for new trust and lashes out when it isn't immediately granted.

If you are going to keep this guy around, this probably calls for the most extraordinary measures imaginable.

If I were you (and I sort of am) I would compile a list of every thing I wanted the truth on (including or especially including things he has told you already that you 'believe"). Ask the members here to help formulate that list.

Then, have him write out full and complete answers to them. Review those answers and ask for more details or explanation where needed.

Then take it to a polygrapher. Remember, even if he says "I don't know" or "I don't remember" that will show up on the polygraph as a lie if he does.

Here is a stab at a beginning of a list:

-- When did you first meet OW?
-- When was the first phsical encounter?
-- Where was the first physical encounter?
-- How many physical encounters where there over the 6 six years? Figuring that is something like 300 weekends, was it once a week? More?
-- Did he ever have himself tested for STDs during this period?
-- were there any sexual encounters with other women during this period? (I'll bet there were, by the way)
-- How did you communicate with her:

Text?
email?
Cell phone?
Land phone?
Chats?

--When did you first give her money?
--How much money do you estimate you gave her over six years, including groceries and gifts?

-- More than $50k? More than 100k? More than 200k? More than $300k? It is was even a grand a week for all her living expenses, that is in excess of $300 dollars.
-- Did you go on out-of state triops or vacations with her? Where and when?
-- sex acts...well...that is your call. I had to know, but it is a double edged sword.

etc, others may chime in...

Due to this guy's extraordinary truth issues, I'd repeat it periodically too...

PS: this site should be YOUR resource. If I were you I would get him off here, change your name, put a keylogger on his computers to see if he ever visits and establish dire consequences if he does. He wants to work with MB, that's fine you don't need these boards to do that.

SSS, I agree very much that you should schedule a polygraph and follow the outline that Mike gave you. I want to address the point above and explain what I think is happening here. Your H has become a trained liar over the past 6 years. That is not an easy habit to break. He has lived a life of subterfuge so honesty IS NOT NATURAL TO HIM. He has trained his moral compass otherwise. So when he "comes clean" he is in the practice of being dishonest and will only say what he has to say to get out of trouble.

He doesn't like this about himself and is using psychobabble to cover up this troubling trait "my ego deluded its keeper."

But I think he is trying and I hope you give him a chance and help him retrain his moral compass. He won't get it right the first time, but some support and some practice, he can make it. He has some excellent folks posting to him who can help him in this regard.

Mike, I see what you are seeing and understand your concerns. He doesn't come across as honest because honesty is so foreign to him. We see this trait in new alcoholics who come into AA. They are long time liars so it takes longer for them to learn honesty. I believe this is what is troubling you.

And SSS, I IMPLORE YOU, BEG YOU to get hooked into a MB weekend. Your marriage can make it if you get an exceptional level of care. Dr. Harley can handle your husband, whereas I don't think your run of the mill counselor can deal with him. He will run right over them.

Mike, I think he needs this board because other posters are able to call him on his bullcrap. I don't know that SS is very adept in that regard but posters like you, me and tst can easily see when he is doing that.

Thank you Mike. He has been greatly upset by your posts. I have been reading the thread and finally told him that you all were on to the same wave length that I was on and he should listen to you all. It sucks when you hear truth that you do not want to hear and I can hardly feel real sorry for him considering the truths I have been listening to.

He puked out (your term and I like it) some more crap this morning in a gush of sobs and info I did not want to hear but had to. I am so jaded at the moment that the only thing that crossed my mind at that time was the old kids song, "Great Big Bags of Greasy Grimy Gopher's Guts". Forgive me, I am a musician and everything has a song including gushing and sobbing truth telling. This was in response to what you had said in his thread, I told him I was going to schedule a polygraph. I am. I just took all my meds, including the crazy pills I have been given to get through this and he has 30 minutes to come clean before I start compiling a list. He has today and then when he has the list to be truthful. I will give him the chance to answer things he does not know are coming. After he fills it out the polygraph will be the final.

I hate to say this but you have him pegged. I am so damned naive and trusting by nature that I never ever thought he could do something like this to me. No matter how much he ignored me and tried to push me around (I don't push) I never saw this coming. I had hints, big ones, but I maintained that nobody could ever treat someone this badly. Especially after the after effects of the first one night stand he had.

This is going to be a very difficult day for me and I am not looking forward to it. I am literally shaking waiting for the last shoes to drop. How could this be worse than it already is? The tears are coming, I am going to close up for a while. All I can say to you and to everyone else here is that I am so glad to have found you. I live too far away from the people I know to have a lot of support. I will answer the rest later and I will be taking your advice.

Take heart - it is very common for the WS to make many promises to the OW, none of which he intends to keep. I read on the OW board, and it happens hundreds of times. The OW there are whining that they had a future planned, and many have been in long term relationships, when the WS suddenly dumps them. They always have a hard time believing it.

sadsosad...

A few other points and thoughts:

--what BP are you on? After d-day my BP went through the roof, in fact, I honestly believe I got eye damage. It was like 190 over 152. When I laid down my heart was pounding in my ears, heart racing, mind racing, couldn't sleep....you have to get that under control, that is your HEALTH.

--Don't be complacent with your anti-dep/anxiety scrips. They are extremely individual to personal chemistry. I rolled through a bunch of them until I found one that works for me -- I won't even say the name because it would only prejudice you. Get a doc that understands this.

--Your shock at betrayal is standard. My WW is a shy quiet church receptionist. The most virtuous person anyone in our lives knows. Charity, religion, has never as much as said "sh1t" in 24 years I've known her. But lied her butt off to me for two years on a daily basis. It was like a daily cinder block in the head the first few weeks after D-day thinking about it. It does get better if you get on the road to recovery.

-- do not be complacent about this OW being out of your lives. It is disgusting to think, but all the pain you are going through about a damaged relationship she is too, from losing GM. Sick, huh? But you know in your own mind right now how that pain can make you act and feel, so be vigilant.

-- When that "large sum of money" GM sends her ran out, she will be back for more. It sounds like she has no income....what he did was the equivalent of feeding the dog at the table. Her blackmail worked.

Sorry I was "tough love" on GM. He is a very smart and successful guy, obviously. But in terms of relationships, I think he is a guy that needs to be stripped down to zero ego and retrained, like a Marine at Quantico. He has learned very manipulative and deceptive coping skills to meet his needs, and it is tough to teach an old dog new tricks. But....he seems willing to at least play the game.

Words mean NOTHING at this stage. You will go "kiss or kill" in four hour cycles. My OW and I swapped breakup/makeup roles on a daily basis. Actions are what matter. When you are at high and low points on the rollercoaster try to stay away from conversations.

Lastly, certainly don't take my word as bible....the varsity vets here have dropped me in disgust because of my post D-day freak on the OM, I over-exposed to the whole world, I kicked WW out three times, and I'm in court trading cross-harrassment complaints right now with OM. I'm no model. But many people here can give you pieces of the puzzle.

We have not signed up yet but are planning on the MB Weekend in March. We just need the farm sitter and I have found the name of one other in case the one we use is unable so we can book it early this week.

He is going to arrange some phone sessions or we are I guess. He will be going to the MC here by himself for a while. We were working on the premise that he had outed himself but he had not and he needs to address this and the why of it all. She has really been very good for us, guiding us through the rough times mostly. I see no harm or conflict with staying with her, we like her and she knows about this site and I would guess by now she has looked at it.

He is going to write a NC letter. The previous letters were not what needed to be said so we are going to do that again and formally, not just email leave me alone notes.

You all know him very well. I am glad that nobody was too afraid to say what you have. I have been telling him this for years and years but he would not hear it, I was childish you know.

Thanks for your continued help for both of us. It is a pretty raw day.

Thanks. There are moments I actually feel a bit sorry for her but then I come to my senses . He used her as well and she used him even more than he used her. They actually belong together because I can't imagine the dirty, nasty, lying little life they inhabited. Makes me really sick. She will be back.

Mike,

I have not read your previous posts about your relationship so I don't have a clue why you say they dropped you but I do think I like you and I do appreciate your style. You actually got through to my WH, it took just that style to piss him off enough to open his eyes (with a little pushing from me).

My BP was about what yours was and it was awful. I did not sleep for night after night and I went totally nuts. 2 times in the ER and they were ready to send me to a Psych ward but I already had several appointments lined up so I escaped that. Should have gone, I could have used the rest.

I was put on an Anti Depressant several years ago after the death of my brother (the same time my WH decided he needed love from someone else) so that was OK. Now I have the BP med, and anti anxiety med and a new anti depressant starting today to add to the lot. What fun **rolling eyes**.

Interesting about your WW. Must have been a real shock to you. I know that feeling, my gut is in knots all the time and after this afternoon it is worse. He has to purge all the info though and I have to hear it.

Turns out she was a hooker first, a friend and hooker second then he fell in love with her while still paying her for sex. Funny, he could have had all that at home if he had just expressed an interest in me. As it was he just was moving on I suppose with the extra added benefit of a presentable wife to drag along to family functions and the hooker to be in love with. Oh yes, the money figure is adding up. She was not even a cheap hooker although she is certainly a cheap person in every way imaginable. The amount is going to be pretty substantial since there was extra for her expenses for 6 years!

You are correct, she will be back. He sent her a check for 4 figures and she replied asking what in the heck she was supposed to do with that little amount. Oh yes, she will be back. She is probably hooking again (I doubt she stopped just because of her "love" for my husband) but he thinks she is getting poor without him. So what?

He needed tough love. It has helped believe it or not.

I understand about the cycles. Man oh man is that true and I hate the schizo feeling I get living like this. After the revelations of today I am just sick but I will live through this but I think I have cycled about 6 times in the last couple of hours. I will go out and walk my goats and sing like Julie Andrews and try to feel better.

Once again thank you. We all need a little tough love now and again doncha think?

A hooker? Sorry, but lol....

Sometimes it just gets to dark comedy, doesn't it?

About three months after D-day my WW and I are sitting on the deck and she starts tearing up. I said what's the matter?

She sobs and says "I think I'm pregnant"

Now it transpires this was 6 or 7 months after the OM and her had been physical, and it would have been mine, but somehow it just hit me as the comedic last straw and I started LAUGHING. I couldn't stop. Tears rolling down my face. Abdominal cramps. WW said she thought I had finally snapped and gone crazy. She backed away in horror and went inside.

God, for some dark reason I still look back and it and laugh. It was like "Oh! Perfect! Nice plot point!"

Anyway, for whatever solace it is, get everything out, think of every question. Build the new foundation on bedrock not quicksand...

Just last week I had a mini-revelation when one of my kids mentioned that OM had gone with them to this park for the day last year. And D said knew enough without being told that she shouldn't tell daddy. Now, I knew WW had done some little outings with my kids and OM (they were only friends!), but this as just a fresh little knife twist and another setback.

SSS,

Just a note. I'd send that NC letter certified. You want proof that OW dirtbag received it. Save that receipt. After you have sent it anytime she tries to C GM or you document it. She may not do anything in the future but it's best to have proof of her total disregard and harrassment of the two of you.

Glad you are here. You are not alone.

Oh Mike, but she was HIS hooker, not a real one except that she was found on the internet and she charged money each time. See, they promised fidelity to each other.........Yah I know, sometimes you have to laugh, you just have to like the "Great Big Bags of Greasy Grimy Gopher's Guts" this morning. It was all I could do to not laugh when 4 lies came out in a stream, not a breath between. It is NOT funny, he is NOT funny I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression but damn...it is too much sometimes to contain it in the pain zone. I hit the pain zone again later when the whole, sordid story was spelled out for me finally. Hopefully the whole story.

I am sorry about your set back. That is the worst part of the recovery or trying to start the recovery. Little things that come out that set you back to the beginning. Why can't they just put it all out there instead of dragging it all out and killing you daily and slowly? It really makes me think there was a lot of "Take This" in the affair. Why I don't know but it sure feels like it.

Any husband who paid a hooker should be served divorce papers. And sued for bringing you a disease. Lets see. Get a good attorney and sue him blind. I would.

And more comes out and I am not laughing. Seems there are lots of IMs where they discussed him leaving me and them getting a wonderful little house together and having a wonderful little life together. There are also web cam pictures that make me want to throw up. Along with many IMs of sex talk all had while I was in the home. She is holding those over his head and over mine as well. My kids have been warned not to open them if they come.

Question. What do I do if they come to me? I don't know if the info in them would be helpful or if it would just kill me. Just asking because I see this in my future.

He continues to puke it up.

What did you mean when you said that he cheated on her, and not with you? Is there another OW??? Does there need to be another NC letter?

This isn't the first time a WS has compromised the usefulness of this site as a source of support and advice for the BS. I wish there was a password-protected forum or something that everyone could access who had been here a certain amount of time, or who showed up as a BS needing a confidential thread. I wouldn't want it to turn into a limited clique... just exclude people who registered just in the past x number of months, unless they were BS's looking for advice away from prying eyes...

Maybe if there was another category of member: junior member, member, then something else (senior member?) that could access the other forum. And maybe a mod could grant senior status to a BS who was afraid their WS was reading.


Oh believe me, Mike was quite the nutcase! LOL I gotta say that I was one that had to just go away and stop reading, it was bothering me too much... but he seems saner nowadays. I'm glad you're getting support from him. I guess he hasn't turned into a misogynist!

ETA: NC means No Contact with the OW forever for both you and WH. There are more experienced vets here who might have a better suggestion, but maybe any communication from her could be returned to sender? Or given to a trusted friend to read to see if it was anything you should read (like, if she said she had just tested positive for an STD... or revealed more facts that WH had withheld).

Well, you can just take it to email. I had some of the vets chain emailing with me last fall (until they all went dark to avoid testifying in my seemingly inevitable murder trial, lol)


Yeah, well, opinions vary. Look at my harrassment charge thread in GQ :-)